Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

andre1969

I think in a head-on like that, with a collision speed of more than 20 mph or so (which I'm sure it would have been), there are no "winners".

Yeah, probably not. Anyway, we were probably doing around 45 or so, and this Corolla was probably coming at us at something like 60! My buddy who was driving tried to swerve and did slow down, but the Corolla didn't slow in the least.

I wonder how much one of those mid-90's Corollas weighs? I think my uncle's '03 weighs around 2500 lb, so maybe 2200-2300 for one of the older ones? I think the Xterra is about 4200 lb...it's a porker considering how small it is.

And sometimes, cars in accidents can seem to defy the laws of physics. A year or so ago I saw a Ford Focus t-bone a Toyota 4runner that tried to dart across an intersection in front of it. Focus was probably doing about 50-55, and it happened so fast the driver barely had time to react. Well, the Focus was pretty much stopped dead in its tracks, but I was actually impressed at how far that 4runner got thrown! And I'd say both cars were pretty much totaled. Thankfully, nobody got hurt very badly, and everybody was able to walk away from it.

corvette

Are you sure it would take only one more problem to qualify for the lemon law? Is there a possibility you mis-read it, & might have to go back to the dealer several times?

If it's for a different problem, it wouldn't qualify...

If the goal is to see the blonde again, I just need to come up with a mechanical problem that would take a multi-day repair. :P

woodyww

Doors that seemed to be about 1/4" thick, tinny sheetmetal, no signs of safety engineering...no thanks.

I felt that way in my '86 Toyota P/U as soon as I bought it--the most "tinny" insubstantial vehicle I ever owned. But I Drove it in Boston traffic for 4 years, & most people start to rationalize safety issues. Most dangerous thing that happened tho was when 2 NH jerks threatened to beat the c**p out of me if I didn't give them my parking spot (I didn't).

My ex-GF had a '93 Mazda 323--never felt safe in that.

roadburner

My 1975 2002 still drives and feels pretty solid. I'm sure that my 1995 ti would fare better in a crash, but the '02 doesn't make me feel like I'm cheating death.

Kirstie_H

If you own any of the following vehicles, model years 2006-2010:
Honda Accord
Honda Pilot
Honda CR-V
Toyota Camry
Toyota Highlander
Toyota RAV4
Ford Escape or Escape Hybrid

and live in the Los Angeles area, please contact ctalati@edmunds.com by August 12 if you’re interested in being contacted for more information on your vehicle ownership experience.

qbrozen

It probably won't be for another 6-8 weeks, but it looks like I'll have to make some changes. A raise at work is looking highly unlikely and our 2nd child is coming in the winter, so we need to cut expenses. First thing I look at is the cars. Making big payments on both the G35X and XC90. The wife is too difficult and unwilling to sacrifice, so I'm inclined to leave her and the volvo alone. I also plan to sell the B2200, which will only get me like maybe $800, but it will save ~$50/mo in insurance.

Someone tell me I'm crazy, but here is where I am at now:
I'm pondering swapping the G for something cheaper, obviously. Thing is, it needs to be usable by the wife, so that means auto trans. It needs to be good in the winter for the wife, so that means FWD/AWD. It needs to be fun for me! It will see autoX time, most likely. Although I have the Z for that now, so not crucial. But I am wanting something light and tossable. I think I'd really prefer a hatch/wagon (although not married to the idea). And I'd like it to be ~$8k with less than 70k miles.

I've noticed used Rabbits are remarkably cheap. They come with a 6-speed tiptronic, interestingly enough. They are pretty light (although I'm confused by the numbers here on Edmunds, as the '06 shows up over 3100 lbs but the '07 is 200 lbs lighter??). I'd probably prefer a GTI, of course, but the 1.8T offered on '02+ models were all 2-door. Not sure I can deal with that with 2 kids. I'm also thinking maybe a V40. Its a turbo (tunable) and light (2800). But it might fall short on fun factor. I'm inclined to believe an Impreza isn't going to work for me. Not with an automatic, anyway. Too heavy and slow, based on our Forester ownership. And WRXs don't fit the price/mileage requirements, evidentally.

Opinions?

edit: hmmm... ya know, I'm reading the above and wondering why I need to suit the wife. I guess its an "emergency" kind of thing. But, really, I've had the G over a year now and I believe she has used it all of 2 days. And that was when she worked where there was no volvo dealer. Now she works near a dealer and takes the car there herself, so she never has a need for my G. Ugh. I don't know. Just seems easier to have something we can both drive, I suppose.

corvette

$8k seems like a low budget for a late-model hatch with under 70k miles. The original V40/S40 were based on a Mitsubishi design, were not that great of a car, and are probably ill-suited for track duty.

qbrozen

Yup. Euro Mitsu Charisma, to be specific, if I'm not mistaken. I was thinking the same thing, although was surprised to find out how light they are.

Budget is what it is. This is the sacrifice I'm willing to make, if it makes sense, that is. I've already found Rabbits near that range, as well as a V40, so it seems doable.

michaellno

Your wife takes her own car to the dealer? My, my, my .. what an enlightened woman you've married.

As the fleet manager for 3 vehicles, I'm the lucky SOB who has to take each and every car in for service.

Thinking out loud:

1) A first generation Vibe / Matrix. The upmarket versions have, I believe, 180HP (though not much in the way of torque). Not sure if they came with automatics, however.

2) Hmm, nothing else is coming to mind. I do like the idea of a used Rabbit, however; I hadn't realized that used ones were selling for so little. I'd be a bit concerned with the reliability.

qbrozen

I do like the vibe/matrix. I'd have to see if that fits the bill, though, in terms of price, etc. I've always worried about VW reliability, but now that I'm looking for specific info, I'm not finding anything that scares me. At least on the simpler cars. Maybe the posher, more complicated cars have spoiled the bunch?

As for the dealer visits, she just drops it off. I still need to arrange the appointment, explain what needs to be done, and field the follow-up calls.

Sandman6472

Great cars for your purposes and may not be as nice as your current ride, but it's time for you guys to put your "wants" on the sidelines and get what y'all "need". Get rid of all your other "toys" for the time being and put the new baby "first"! Being unable or unwilling to "sacrifice" is ridiculous to say the least. Downsize the fleet and live within your means for the sake of your family and down the road you'll both be happy that y'all did the smart and adult thing. Once the kids get a bit older & the family finances improve, then y'all could talk about your "wants" but right now your "needs" and those of your kids need to come first...end of story.
Come into Edmunds like many of us and read about everyone else's "cool" cars while driving cars that are fiscally responsible. That's what I do...sure I'd like a fancier car than what I've got and I suspect the wife would also, but with 2 kids in college and retirement right around the corner, we're happy to drive our econoboxes while giving the kids what they need to get ahead in life. After all, isn't it all about them anyways...?

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

woodyww

The wife is too difficult and unwilling to sacrifice, so I'm inclined to leave her and the volvo alone.

..........wondering why I need to suit the wife......

It almost sounds like Rumpole of the Baily, who referred to his wife as "she who must be obeyed". Smart guy.

What're the payments on the G35X and XC90? And when are they paid off? How much could you get for the G? Do you like the G, or are you itching to make a car
move? (Or both? That's my normal state).

boomchek

Well make sure you're not upside down on the G35X before you get rid of it. You don't want negative equity carrying over onto a "new" car.

A Rabbit sounds like a decent car, but I'd worry about reliability too. Especially ones in that price range. They're going to be the bottom feeder ones in not the best shape.

I would have suggested a Lexus IS300 Sportcross, as it's a wagon, and it's tossable, but they hover in the mid teens price range and are RWD only.

Other than that, stick to an inexpensive import like a Matrix, Mazda3, or a Honda Fit.

qbrozen

OK, ease down ... ease down ... its OK.

I should have said my wife did say she'd trade her car. Fact of the matter is, I KNOW better. She is demanding on her vehicles. She's wanted that Volvo for a long time and now that she has it, I'm not about to willy-nilly take it away without very careful consideration of how it will affect MY quality of life. It is also worth noting that the Volvo is not in such a bad place financially. We have about 45 payments of $400 each remaining. Really, how much better am I going to do? It is one thing for me to have problems with my vehicle. I can break down on the road and not freak. I can make roadside repairs. I won't complain.

That's not to say we won't revisit the topic if need be. We don't know if that is necessary yet, though.

And getting rid of the "toys" isn't a good idea, as far as I can see. Especially if I'm driving a potentially unreliable vehicle. I'll need a backup. And, as for her toy, I don't know yet. I keep debating that one. Insurance is so ridiculously cheap on both cars, its not a factor. And I do like that she keeps SOME miles off the volvo by driving the BMW sometimes. If we need money, we can sell it. Not a big deal.

qbrozen

well, we are chronic car buyers, are we not?

I would say its not the car move I would WANT to make (sporty luxo cruiser to an econo hatch). But, then again, there is a bit of looking forward to something light and tossable. The G can carve, no doubt, but it feels every bit of its 3700 lbs.

I am upside down on the G, but its not what I would consider horrible. The net-net, according to my calculations, would wind up dropping my payments by ~$170-$190/mo (while not adding to the number of payments) and dropping my fuel bill roughly $30/mo.

michaellno

Saving $200/mo is not insignificant, in my mind .. especially when you aren't increasing the length of the payments.

Any change in the insurance rates? When I was poking around for a winter car, I found that the '01 Outback I was considering would have cost me more than the '03 Saturn L300 I'm currently driving.

fezo

I did find it amusing that the defining needs vs. wants came after you said you'd consider a Vibe.

Funny thing. These days I think of a $400 a month car payment as too much. Back 14 years ago I was paying that much on a freaking Windstall! I will grant you I have two more kids than in those days and a bigger house...

qbrozen

Dunno bout insurance. It crossed my mind. I would HOPE it would go down for such an inexpensive car with a full complement of airbags, but what do I know? I would inquire, of course.

qbrozen

I go back and forth on whether $400 is too much. It is lower than we used to pay, though. I think we used to pay like $350/mo on her Forester, then went to $525 on her Pilot, then $485 on the Pacifica, and now $400. Considering this is the nicest vehicle of all those, its not bad.

jimbres

My suggestion: go ahead & get rid of the B2200. Then spend a rainy Saturday afternoon putting all of your household expenses into Excel, looking for other, non-automotive, frills that you can live without - premium cable channels or restaurant meals, for example.

Next, take this money & throw it at your car payments. Wouldn't you rather hang onto the G if you could own it free & clear by, say, this time next year?

qbrozen

A good suggestion; however, its something I've already taken into consideration. The car is just one aspect that needs to be addressed. Believe me, the $200 saved here is just part of what we'll need. Daycare for an infant is EXPENSIVE!

kyfdx

The smaller/cheaper the ride... the higher the insurance.. as a general rule..

You might be shocked at what they want to insure a hatchback/econobox.. SUVs are dirt cheap to insure...

corvette

Daycare for an infant is EXPENSIVE!

So is having a midlife crisis because you gave up your entertaining daily driver. :P

Seriously, there are a lot worse things than having a boring car.

lilengineerboy

I understand that new family additions require some sacrifice, and that there are certain decisions that must be made in order to survive, but tread carefully. You have to decide what is really important for you. If the most important thing is you drive a fancy car (this is hypothetical, not you personally) then figure out a way to make it happen - either with an older model and accept that you will be spending some weekends maintaining it, or with a newer one and understand the beer budget and out to lunch budget are now done, and you are the one painting the house and mowing the lawn.
If the goal is to have a fun car, that opens things up a little, as a lot of money isn't a prerequisite for a fun car. If you need that fun car to also be a DD, it requires some more figuring out, but if its really only a weekend toy, then the world is wide open. There are plenty of inexpensive, fun cars. One of my buddies just picked up an SVT Focus and seems perfectly content running around in that thing with 2 baby seats in the back.
As far as the stick vs auto...if you were stuck in the middle of nowhere and had a heart attack your spouse would figure out how to drive a stick. If your wife's car needs service, Enterprise is a a $20/day option to let you get a car that you like. As much as I am not a fan of the Accord, if it were an auto I wouldn't have made it this far with it.
Figure out your budget, find things you like that meet your wants and your needs and weight the trade offs (are you willing to do your own service, can you spend a few weekends wrenching here and there, do you like it...), and make a choice.
This whole "you need to suffer because you are a parent now and it looks irresponsible if you actually enjoy anything" is a bunch of crap and a trap that should be avoided.

qbrozen

Completely agree with you.

I do work on my own cars, which is the primary reason why I can even consider having an older high mileage car. I don't drink. I just painted our 500 feet of stockade fence all by my lonesome a couple of weekends ago (yeah, that was a BEAR of a job). And I've never paid a landscaper in my life. So, for me personally, cars are the only area I "splurge" on.

But, yes, I think I could do with less. It is actually through autocrossing that I've come to the realization that I don't need leather seats, I don't want alot of weight-adding options, and I don't need 300hp to go fast.

I am still on the fence on stick vs auto, though. I do enjoy driving my Z, but there is still something to be said for getting in a climate controlled car, putting the lever in D, and cruising to work in the morning (or on the way home after a 16-hour day). And having my Z when I do want to row my own helps. Although, on the flip side, having a stick will get every bit of enjoyment possible out of an econobox. I'll just have to get to test driving and see what I find.

So, on the SVT, is his a 2-door? (i dunno if they made a 4-door.) I'm thinking a 2-door would get on my nerves with the baby. Although I've always said a car purchase should not hinge on how a rear-facing babyseat fits because it won't be rear-facing all that long. And my 3-year-old is just about getting in and out without any assistance.

michaellno

So, on the SVT, is his a 2-door? (i dunno if they made a 4-door.)

Yes, Ford produced a 4-door Focus SVT.

british_rover

Yes they did and it has the same six speed Getrag manual that goes in the MINI Cooper S.

Very, Very fun car to drive. About a year and a half ago when I thought I was going to be changing jobs and losing my demo I looked into buying a SVT Focus CPO from a Ford dealer. They had special interest rates then, Joel sent them to me don't remember the exact rates but they were cheap, and the cars were fairly cheap too for 2004s that could be certified.

I think 2004s are too old for Ford to certify anymore and they probably don't offer special finance rates anymore either.

guss

the most fun automatic under $8k will be the Rabbit, you kinda get the best of both worlds.

You also may want to look at a Mazda Protege5,it is more of a wagon than a hatch. The Vibe GT only came in a stick, I would have bought one back in '03 if the had a auto . I have the same wife problem and we switch cars fairly often based on whoever has all 3 kids gets the mini-van.

Don't you also have an older BMW ? Would it be possible to make a combination of that and your Nissan your daily drivers ?

qbrozen

The BMW is wife's extra car. Nissan Z is mine. XC90 is her daily and the G35X mine.

P5 has always been on my list. I'd actually like to find one of those mazdaspeed proteges. See, if I open up to a stick, there are so many other fun, cheap options. I'm going to have to talk to the wife.

fezo

(shaking head...) Four cars for two people and he wonders where the money goes.... :P

I'm just back to four cars for four drivers. Daughter #2 got her license so in theory she splits the Celica and Ody with me. In reality she drives the Ody. Down the road six months if she wants an actual car I'll offer her the same deal as her older sister and split a car loan and insurance with her.

qbrozen

Don't forget the B2200. ;b

our backup cars are so cheap to have around and worth so little that it just makes sense to me to keep them for now. The B2200 is the most expensive because I can't carry classic insurance on it. So that one has got to go.

fezo

I hate to say it but that makes sense. Hadn't realized the Z and the BMW are on classic insurance. Limits your miles but I hear is way cheap.

Just wait until your kids are old enough to drive! The insurance rates are stunning in the worst possible sense of the word.

If I needed a pickup you'd be all set...

Killer is I keep looking for possible car for #2 and keep finding this I'd really like myself. It's all your fault for bring up Volkswagens....

tifighter

P5 is a good car; I drove a 5 speed for a few years. Had a Z3 roadster at the same time, but honestly, the P5 was more fun. And if you are thinking automatic, the P5 had a 'manumatic' which was pretty unusual in that class at the time...

british_rover

One car for two people. A demo is a wonderful thing. Frees up money for so much other stuff.

qbrozen

Looked for and found a Mazdaspeed Protege.

Only one small problem ...

stever

Heh, Brooklyn or the Lambo doors?

kyfdx

Have you driven the MazdaSpeed Protege? It's a little underwhelming.. Turbo is kind of lumpy... kicking in abruptly... and, not as fast as you'd think..

I think the standard engines in newer models are probably just as fast..

I'd rather have the P5, I think..

lilengineerboy

Have you driven the MazdaSpeed Protege? It's a little underwhelming.. Turbo is kind of lumpy... kicking in abruptly... and, not as fast as you'd think..

Is it the same thing thats in a Mercury Capri XR2 from the early 90s?

I would also think a P5 would fit the bill. The Mazda3 hatch gets the 2.3 while the Mazda3 sedans could have the 2.0 or the 2.3. Now its a 2.5l 4 cylinder and a 6-speed manual.

You can get an SVT Focus in 3 dr or 5 dr. I am in SE MI so they are pretty plentiful around here with Ford down the street. From a performance standpoint, i think the main weakness is no limited slip diff. The same with the SVT Contour.

It might not be as critical as a DD, and plenty of open-diff cars compete in auto-cross (read: Honda), but that does seem to differentiate the men from the boys on some level - the Integra Type-R had it when the GSR didn't, and the current Civic SI has one, Dodge SRT-4 (turbo Neon) had one, and the WRX has a bunch.

woodyww

We have about 45 payments of $400 each remaining

The G35 is an '04, & the volvo an '05? By the time you get them paid off, they'll be roughly 8-9 years old? And even if you bought a used 70K VW, you'd still have car payments? The toys don't bother me at all, I'd probably like to have them. But 2 $400 car payments (on cars you bought used??), would drive me nuts. And $200-ish payments on a used 70K VW???

Personally, I'd drive around in an old beater (& have), before having 2 car payments. Or focus on the toys & lease 2 base subies or hondas for $200/mo. each for the practical cars (in future).

OTOH, keeping the XC90 for the wife & family seems crucial, probably. Maybe.......decide on a $$ limit for the family car payments, like $400-ish, total? And then do whatever's necessary. For now.

michaellno

And $200-ish payments on a used 70K VW???

Personally, I'd drive around in an old beater (& have), before having 2 car payments. Or focus on the toys & lease 2 base subies or hondas for $200/mo. each for the practical cars (in future).

OTOH, keeping the XC90 for the wife & family seems crucial, probably. Maybe.......decide on a $$ limit for the family car payments, like $400-ish, total? And then do whatever's necessary. For now.

I sorta / kinda agree with Woody on this. I understand that both of the toy cars (Z, BMW) are RWD and thus somewhat impractical for winter .. or with families, especially families who have to use car seats.

I'd keep the XC90, since it's what the wife really wanted when you got it, and, taking woody's advice, lease a cheap something-or-other for 2-3 years. It's not likely that you'll have problems with the mileage, as you can drive the Z or BMW when the weather is nice.

When the Volvo gets paid for, you can use the money that's been going to the Volvo and go out and get the fun to drive, economical, practical car we've been talking about for the last 10-15 posts. Used GTI? Used WRX? Used MS 3? Heck, even a CPO 3-series coupe or sedan with x-drive, since you've got the Volvo as the family car.

guss

Does the Mazda truck qualify for the Cars for Cash program ? If it does I like the cheap Subie or Mazda 3 idea.

I would even think about leasing because $800 a month car payments for the next 4 years would drive me nuts.

qbrozen

Unfortunately, no, the b2200 does not qualify. Believe me, I thought of that one. According to the EPA, it gets 20 mpg mixed.

As for the whole financing thing, taking out a 5-year loan on a used car is pretty typical, IMHO. I am selective when it comes to that, though. For instance, we bought the XC90 with only 23k miles. I concern myself with miles (for the most part), not years.

I thought about the leasing thing, but the negative on the G prevents an inexpensive lease.

So a buddy let me drive his Rabbit for one lap at the autoX yesterday. I was very impressed with it. Very roomy. And powerful enough to spin the heck out of the front wheel in 2nd gear on every turn. I'm still not sure, though. I am not convinced I can live with it for several years.

stickguy

just back from vacation, so havent been around for a while.

$800 in car payments? My heart stopped. I haven't had one in a couple of years, and have decided to never have another one. But, to each his own!

In your case, the Pro 5 would be a nice otion. I came close to getting one in (IIRC) 2004, when they phased out for the 3 and were going dirt cheap.

To me, the best option for getting out of payments is if you have enough cash (or ideally equity) to just buy the replacement. In that case, for you, an older to middle age 3 series BMW could be a winner.

You know cars, and if you get a well maintained one, and will do the wrenching yourself, they can be very reliable and surprisngly cheap to buy. Just ask Roadburner. Once they hit 100K, many people wont go near them.

And of course, fun!

Oh, and under no circumstances get a 2 door for your DD, when you have infants and little ones in car seats. Trust me on this.

stickguy

I may be doing something similar, for the same basic reason.

My son (the one that scored the deal, via my wallet, on a nice 2000 Acura 3.2TL back in December), goes to college in 2 weeks, and the car will be staying home.

I am at home these days, and really don't use my Accord that much right now. If that keeps up, I sure the heck wont be able to keep both cars exercised, while still paying insurance for both of them.

So, at some point (sooner if I really need the money, since said college aint cheap) I may sell one and let him fend for himself when he is home.

But, no point in selling the TL, since I likely wont get that much for it (and it would tick off my sister that sold it to me), and I will have a hell of a time finding another kid car when needed.

So, I would sell my Accord (another benefit being we could share the TL when he is home, but he cant drive my stick. I know, I failed). The Accord should fetch a better price, being 5 years newer with 100K less miles!

And I get "punished" by having to bop around town in a nice Acura, that drives like it has 1/2 the miles, if that.

And the real benefit (besides raising money for next years tuition bill!)? nex spring, if he is going to be home and need a car, I get to go out and find something interesting for myself!

Who am I kidding... I start looking for the replacement 2 days after I sell the Accord (a fine car, but getting kind f bored with it).

Maybe the 3 series wagon I always wanted will finally fall into my lap? Or a V70.

qbrozen

Alot of folks don't like car payments. Sure. I can understand that.

I view it more as a cost of doing business kind of thing. We have some cash, but we choose not to use it up when buying a car. We both feel better having it on hand in case an emergency should arise. Having it tied up in a depreciating asset is a bit too risky for us. But, realize also, we're young enough yet to have always benefited from low interest rates. If things were to go back to how they were in the '80s, like our parents complain bout, I'm sure we'd feel differently.

But, you guys have given me another angle to think about. Keep paying down the G (I've already increased my payments), at least until I can break even. Then buy myself something very cheap for cash. As good as my Z has been with commuting, I feel I should be able to spend $3k on a used econocar and have it last me a good while.

Stick - I was just looking at a couple of 3'er wagons today. Then I looked up the specs. Heavy little buggers. An '01 325 wagon is pushing 3400 lbs. I'm really convinced I want something under that 1.5-ton mark.

grandtotal

I view it more as a cost of doing business kind of thing.

I'm with you in general even though I'm car payment free at the moment. Whether you have a car payment or not is really irrelevant because a car is costing you money whether you have a payment or not. In our current low interest environment having a lease/loan is no big deal.

woodyww

Whether you have a car payment or not is really irrelevant because a car is costing you money whether you have a payment or not.

It seems like payment buying can encourage people to buy more car than they can really afford. But making payments on a new bmw, or lexus, instead of paying cash for an 5-6 y.o. camry or bmw or volvo in nice condition, is very tempting.

Some who make car payments, seem to never get off the payment treadmill. And then if they want to, they're Upside Down. Or can't get out of their lease.

Maybe I'm fanatical about the subject because the one time I signed up for 4 yr. car payments around 1979, the vehicle turned out to be the Worst Lemon I Ever Owned. Then the value of the vehicle plummeted so fast, I couldn't afford to dump it for the whole 4 years. And I hated the vehicle (an infamous GM lemon). Hated the bank. Hated writing the checks, 48 months in a row.

If I'd bought the new Benz I was looking at instead (a 280CD coupe, is that right?), I assume it would have held it's value & been reliable. I might have had a different attitude about the payments......but I'd still rather own my 10 y.o. bmw outright than get into payments on a new one. Maybe it's.....if the vehicle is paid for, is still reliable, the payments go away, the excise tax is low, & you've got the $400-$500/mo. monkey off your back.

Sandman6472

Been lucky that we haven't had to do this. We paid of my 1st car note the day after we got home from our honeymoon and the wife told me..."we don't do car payments" and we never did again. Maybe our professions have made us lucky we've never had to do one again. But we buy cars we can afford even though I'd like something a bit more luxo. And now that due to my on the job injury, I'll be disabled permanently even though I'm within 17 months of finishing 30 years with the government. So guess we'll still keep driving our econoboxes till my spine makes driving impossible.
I would hope that the 0% financing would come back in the future because then I could definitely see using their $ to purchase something. And something tells me that after this C4C program ends, car sales will plummet again and showrooms will be empty with no buyers. Prices will have to comedown with great incentives but time will tell.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

corvette

In 1979, a lot of auto loans were written so that the bank still got all of the interest due on the loan even if the loan were paid off early (as would happen if you traded it in). Couple that with high interest rates, and I'm not surprised it was impossible to trade in.

I financed my Pontiac to avoid depleting my emergency fund, but have paid a lot more than the minimum payments most months (thankfully, it's on a simple interest loan). Even so, I think I'd have a little negative equity if I tried to trade it in right now.

fintail

Those days were probably the worst to finance a car. High interest, crap cars, and steep depreciation.

I can't recall if NA got the 280CE...I would guess you saw a 300CD. They cost around 25K back then I think. As the design remained current through 85, it probably held its value very well, MB was at the top of its game back then.