Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

explorerx4

I guess you guys are too young to remember an '89 SHO.

andres3

explorerx4 said:

I guess you guys are too young to remember an '89 SHO.

Was that a V6 though? The Mustang V6 could be out raced in a Yugo.

explorerx4

@andres3,
You are definitely too young with much to learn.

andres3

explorerx4 said:

@andres3,
You are definitely too young with much to learn.

Google is my friend: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15142141/1989-ford-taurus-sho-road-test-review/

The braking and skid pad numbers don't inspire any confidence. Also, just a few reviews down, a commenter mentions the extremely low quality of "Ford" in the 80's. I think the low quality is the reason no one saw any of these running on the road. I had heard of Taurus SHO's before, but not the 89 version. 3,300+ pounds in '89 was fairly heavy.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

I guess you guys are too young to remember an '89 SHO.

That actually does barely pre-date my driving years, but more likely I completely ignored it because I was raised anti-Ford back then. PLUS, I did technically write "Japanese family sedan." ;b And, no, I don't care that the Ford had a Yamaha engine and Mazda transmission. lol.

But, yes, according to specs, it matched the Nissan's 0-60 that came a full 11 yrs later.

andres3

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

andres3

qbrozen said:

explorerx4 said:

I guess you guys are too young to remember an '89 SHO.

That actually does barely pre-date my driving years, but more likely I completely ignored it because I was raised anti-Ford back then. PLUS, I did technically write "Japanese family sedan." ;b And, no, I don't care that the Ford had a Yamaha engine and Mazda transmission. lol.

But, yes, according to specs, it matched the Nissan's 0-60 that came a full 11 yrs later.

Now I'm curious why Mazda ended up with the Ford V6 instead of the Yamaha version for the Mazda 6 and 626.

stickguy

just remembered, my Maxima was a 1998. The end of that classic mid-90s generation. I think the updated design came out in 1999.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

corvette

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

I think that's about what my G37 weighed.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

I’ve often wondered if I could live with a Wrangler. The whole 4 door, 4WD, Convertible is very appealing to me. My best friend has a JK 2 Door Rubicon Hard Rock with a stick and a soft top only. A lot of what he loves about the wrangler is the fact that he doesn’t have to drive it every day (he daily drives a 2018 Raptor). He loves driving it with the top flipped back or down completely. It’s small and very easy to drive. His cars are always immaculate. If he can’t hand wash the Wrangler & has to run it through the car wash, he has 2 spare side windows and a spare back window he puts in.

I don’t keep up keeping the cars clean like I used to when I was younger. The soft top windows would get messed up sooner rather than later. My Jeep (I like the look of the Willys) would have a hard top only. As far as the top, if I wanted the open air I’d most likely just take the freedom panels off.

While not as limited use as say a Ferrari, a Wrangler IMO isn’t really a daily driver unless you’re out in the country and going off the pavement. As a fun toy though, go for it.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

Did my socially distanced entertainment yesterday and today and drove around listening to podcasts in the Tundra. Hit the tow/haul button to see how it would behave, and during normal driving, it felt like it only sharpened the throttle response. The shift points felt the same if you were accelerating gently (it just required less throttle). Seems like GM changes the shift points in tow/haul mode, but I'm not sure about other manufacturers.

In my old cargo van the tow button let’s the motor rev a bit higher between shifts. Never towed anything so I don’t know how it should shift under load.

explorerx4

Just for educational purposes, here are pics on of Gen 1 and Gen 2 SHO engines.

oldfarmer50

andres3 said:

explorerx4 said:

I guess you guys are too young to remember an '89 SHO.

Was that a V6 though? The Mustang V6 could be out raced in a Yugo.

A Mustang with a V6 or an electric motor isn’t a Mustang.

stickguy

A4 looks nice. and that footprint (L and W) are just about perfect (the "mama bear" size). But that price is certainly steep. Even a premium plus I guess will tickle $50K. Though I suppose it is comparable to a 330 BMW.

at least it is quick.

sda

I realize cars are better than ever with luxury and safety features and wonderful driving dynamics. Even with inflation factored in I have an issue paying more than $25k for a vehicle. Call me cheap, thrifty, that’s my pain point. No financing over 60 mo, generally shorter. That’s a primary reason I gravitate to lightly used 2-3 year old vehicles.

stickguy

I used to have a lower price cap before I got heart palpations. But, scope creep has been happening there. But only for my wife's car (aka the family mobile) since that is the one we generally take on trips, and plan to keep a long time. But I still refuse to break $40k even for that. No way I could spend that much on a 2nd car for me. Though leasing, well, clouds the issue.

$25K is a nice price point. Can get something new if you want, in more basic but still nice trim. And real easy to get something in the 2-3 YO range that is very nice. Your Passat was way under. a 2018 or 2019 GTI. And many other options.

60 months financing is also a good benchmark (if the rates are low). If you need more than that just to get a payment you can swallow, you are spending too much on my car IMO.

nyccarguy

sda said:

I realize cars are better than ever with luxury and safety features and wonderful driving dynamics. Even with inflation factored in I have an issue paying more than $25k for a vehicle. Call me cheap, thrifty, that’s my pain point. No financing over 60 mo, generally shorter. That’s a primary reason I gravitate to lightly used 2-3 year old vehicles.

$25K is a good barometer. Before I leased my truck, I used it twice. Once successfully (my Infiniti) and once unsuccessfully (my Legacy). As a Chronic Car Buyer, I always have a wandering eye. With a lease, I know for certain when I’ll be in the market for a new car. I know my depreciation costs will be fixed.

stickguy

I used to have a 3 year rule for my car (the wife's car was buy new, keep it as long as reasonable).

it worked well, for a while. But a 3 YO car, keep it 3 years, then sell and start over. I think price did not matter, but I would only spend what the old car sold for, + $300/month max for 3 years (unless I had extra cash to put down). After the first couple I was flipping in all cash deals at least.

a pretty good plan IMO. Not spending tons of money, and not living with the same car too long. Plus, never really having an "old" or out of date car.

but in the end, it really did work about the same as leasing repeatedly!

andres3

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

It seems that while some doctors might allow you 1 extra pound per year, cars have been adding about 40-50 pounds per year the last 25 years.

andres3

sda said:

I realize cars are better than ever with luxury and safety features and wonderful driving dynamics. Even with inflation factored in I have an issue paying more than $25k for a vehicle. Call me cheap, thrifty, that’s my pain point. No financing over 60 mo, generally shorter. That’s a primary reason I gravitate to lightly used 2-3 year old vehicles.

My prior A4 beat that price point, while my S4 goes well over it especially when adding all the extra fees and taxes. Still, I'm happier with the S4; that's the one I actually want. Premium, sport, and exclusivity/rarity cost a few extra $$$.

As I think I've mentioned before, the first really good Audi mechanic I got to know said "no one ever said going fast was cheap."

stickguy

that's the most important thing Andre. As long as it isn't financially irresponsible, you should own and drive what makes you happy!

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I realize cars are better than ever with luxury and safety features and wonderful driving dynamics. Even with inflation factored in I have an issue paying more than $25k for a vehicle. Call me cheap, thrifty, that’s my pain point. No financing over 60 mo, generally shorter. That’s a primary reason I gravitate to lightly used 2-3 year old vehicles.

My vehicles range from $31k new to $1800 slightly used.

explorerx4

My old 2017 truck is still for sale on Vroom.
Original msrp 68k+, paid 56k, asking 49,480.
If they drop they price another 7%, I can buy it back for what I got for it.

andres3

explorerx4 said:

My old 2017 truck is still for sale on Vroom.
Original msrp 68k+, paid 56k, asking 49,480.
If they drop they price another 7%, I can buy it back for what I got for it.

How long has it been for sale on Vroom now? Seems they don't mind holding inventory.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

I used to have a 3 year rule for my car (the wife's car was buy new, keep it as long as reasonable).

it worked well, for a while. But a 3 YO car, keep it 3 years, then sell and start over. I think price did not matter, but I would only spend what the old car sold for, + $300/month max for 3 years (unless I had extra cash to put down). After the first couple I was flipping in all cash deals at least.

a pretty good plan IMO. Not spending tons of money, and not living with the same car too long. Plus, never really having an "old" or out of date car.

but in the end, it really did work about the same as leasing repeatedly!

My problem with buying a 3 year old car is that you’re still paying for a lot of depreciation but run the risk that the previous owner abused it. On a much older car you don’t have as much invested in case you get a clunker.

That’s why my used sweet spot is 10+ years old.

stickguy

10+ is much more likely to get problems that need to be dealt with (even if taken care of, just old age wear). And of course, you need to check what you are buying.

and it makes sense only for certain cars. Domestics that depreciate like a rock in the first couple of year? Good option. Stuff that barely moves in 3 years, isn't.

Sandman6472

We just buy new and keep them a bit, usually 7 to 10 years. Figure if things stay the same with no drama, we'll do the same thing again. Think I'll be getting something newer before her this time unless I do end up with her A3, but that's highly doubtful. They just got home from Orlando a few hours ago and she's over 59K, 59,109 right now. Definitely needs a good bath now but will deal with that at a later date. Had the Accent for the last 4. days but let it sit outside since it rained a bit. Wanted to get it washed/waxed but will wait till next time she comes up. Still sitting on that $25 gift card but will probably use it on mine instead

qbrozen

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

I think that's about what my G37 weighed.

My G35x was 3750. An AWD v6 midsizer. Granted, my 330xi compact wasn’t much better. I think 3400? 3500? With all the hype around mileage, I still can’t understand why some manufacturers haven’t gone the route of simply losing weight.

stickguy

Sandman6472 said:

We just buy new and keep them a bit, usually 7 to 10 years. Figure if things stay the same with no drama, we'll do the same thing again. Think I'll be getting something newer before her this time unless I do end up with her A3, but that's highly doubtful. They just got home from Orlando a few hours ago and she's over 59K, 59,109 right now. Definitely needs a good bath now but will deal with that at a later date. Had the Accent for the last 4. days but let it sit outside since it rained a bit. Wanted to get it washed/waxed but will wait till next time she comes up. Still sitting on that $25 gift card but will probably use it on mine instead

depending on the car, that is a fine plan too. Of course, you then have the same car a lot longer! Though it does usually mean you are fronting more money each time, so you need more resources to get into the game.

corvette

qbrozen said:

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

I think that's about what my G37 weighed.

My G35x was 3750. An AWD v6 midsizer. Granted, my 330xi compact wasn’t much better. I think 3400? 3500? With all the hype around mileage, I still can’t understand why some manufacturers haven’t gone the route of simply losing weight.

Safety regulations/crash tests, sound deadening, etc. People generally expect a new car to be more refined than the one they're trading in. I don't think that infotainment is a major cause--adding a built in iPad isn't really significant--but the pano roofs, etc., probably are.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

10+ is much more likely to get problems that need to be dealt with (even if taken care of, just old age wear). And of course, you need to check what you are buying.

and it makes sense only for certain cars. Domestics that depreciate like a rock in the first couple of year? Good option. Stuff that barely moves in 3 years, isn't.

But what is your at-risk investment? If you invest $8k in a 10 year old car you risk less than if you buy a 3 year old car for $25k. In the end it can be a crap shoot. I just like to have less money on the table.

I’m not saying my way is better, it’s just better for my financial situation. I guess I hate putting capital at risk on a depreciating asset.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a34957337/2021-audi-a4-45-by-the-numbers/

Is this what the market wants right now? Impressive 0-60 time, 13.5 quarter mile and it's just an A4. The price isn't cheap though.

A 3700-lb compact. Yikes.

I think that's about what my G37 weighed.

My G35x was 3750. An AWD v6 midsizer. Granted, my 330xi compact wasn’t much better. I think 3400? 3500? With all the hype around mileage, I still can’t understand why some manufacturers haven’t gone the route of simply losing weight.

All that safety equipment would be my guess.

nyccarguy

I’d like some input from the group on these 2 trucks. Really asking for a friend this time:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337?sourceContext=shareListingLink#listing=289767771

https://www.houseofcarsct.com/2011-Ford-F-150-Meriden-CT-Cheshire-Middletown-New-Britain-New-Haven/used_car/REHujDa]saM=

Thanks in advance. The guy is looking to help his son buy a 1st car. The kid is getting his license and has a small landscaping business. I’ve tried to educate him on the benefits of leasing to no avail.

Sandman6472

Right now, we both are satisfied with our daily drivers, and since the drama with my Golf has quieted down a bit, we're both happy to keep the current fleet. Once hers starts to have issues, it'll just be a matter of time when it goes. Like most women, her ride is just an appliance so she'll drive whatever she ends up liking. I'm a bit more particular so I'll look at almost anything that looks interesting. But like the Golf, I'll know within a few minutes which one will be the one and then, I'll usually get it within a week or two. I've found that if I do end up going for a test drive, it's a good bet I just might get it.

qbrozen

Oh I certainly know why cars get heavier. I’m complaining about the fact that most manufacturers put little to no effort in making them lighter.

au1994

I would imagine all of the electronics, be it safety or entertainment are large contributors for the weight increase. Safe to say sheet metal has gotten thinner when its even used and fenders or truck beds are not composite. Theoretically a smaller engine should be lighter as well.

ab348

I always shake my head when these "how much to pay" discussions pop up here. Buy what you like and can afford. If you buy a car you can afford but don't like, you've made a mistake. Same if you buy a car that you like but can't afford. How hard can that be?

qbrozen

for you GTi shoppers. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KDLam2GG/2015-volkswagen-gti-autobahn?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=new

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

I’d like some input from the group on these 2 trucks. Really asking for a friend this time:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337?sourceContext=shareListingLink#listing=289767771

https://www.houseofcarsct.com/2011-Ford-F-150-Meriden-CT-Cheshire-Middletown-New-Britain-New-Haven/used_car/REHujDa]saM=

Thanks in advance. The guy is looking to help his son buy a 1st car. The kid is getting his license and has a small landscaping business. I’ve tried to educate him on the benefits of leasing to no avail.

The Ford’s in our fleet ride a little harsher than Chevy or Dodge but the consensus is the Ford is a superior work truck.

Of those two I think I would take the one with the 5.0 engine. That Gen 1 Coyote is a beast and pretty reliable. The other truck has the 5.4L which I understand has a lot of expensive problems. (The car Wizard has a video on it)

explorerx4

Definitely get a history report. The 2nd truck is more of a basic truck, so maybe better for work.
1st one is more of a luxury truck with some aftermarket equipment(audio system and power folding step bars).

tjc78

If the 2010 checks out I think that is a much better deal than the 2011. Much less miles and fully equipped. The aftermarket radio wouldn’t worry me.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

stickguy said:

10+ is much more likely to get problems that need to be dealt with (even if taken care of, just old age wear). And of course, you need to check what you are buying.

and it makes sense only for certain cars. Domestics that depreciate like a rock in the first couple of year? Good option. Stuff that barely moves in 3 years, isn't.

But what is your at-risk investment? If you invest $8k in a 10 year old car you risk less than if you buy a 3 year old car for $25k. In the end it can be a crap shoot. I just like to have less money on the table.

I’m not saying my way is better, it’s just better for my financial situation. I guess I hate putting capital at risk on a depreciating asset.

of course, you can (well, should) only spend what you can afford. But in terms of getting old/cheap, even if that could be cheaper in total, it also depends what you want in a car, and how you will use it. if it is just a around town spare car, really doesn't matter. But if it is a primary car for commuting, travelling long distances, etc. I want something newer with more features.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

I’d like some input from the group on these 2 trucks. Really asking for a friend this time:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337?sourceContext=shareListingLink#listing=289767771

https://www.houseofcarsct.com/2011-Ford-F-150-Meriden-CT-Cheshire-Middletown-New-Britain-New-Haven/used_car/REHujDa]saM=

Thanks in advance. The guy is looking to help his son buy a 1st car. The kid is getting his license and has a small landscaping business. I’ve tried to educate him on the benefits of leasing to no avail.

The Ford’s in our fleet ride a little harsher than Chevy or Dodge but the consensus is the Ford is a superior work truck.

Of those two I think I would take the one with the 5.0 engine. That Gen 1 Coyote is a beast and pretty reliable. The other truck has the 5.4L which I understand has a lot of expensive problems. (The car Wizard has a video on it)

I think he voted the 5.4l 3 valve(?) one of the worst engines ever and said to never buy one. Inherent fatal flaws that can only be fixed with a new engine

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

I’d like some input from the group on these 2 trucks. Really asking for a friend this time:

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-Ford-F-150-d337?sourceContext=shareListingLink#listing=289767771

https://www.houseofcarsct.com/2011-Ford-F-150-Meriden-CT-Cheshire-Middletown-New-Britain-New-Haven/used_car/REHujDa]saM=

Thanks in advance. The guy is looking to help his son buy a 1st car. The kid is getting his license and has a small landscaping business. I’ve tried to educate him on the benefits of leasing to no avail.

Any reason for those 2? High miles there. Either of these is a better value proposition, IMHO. The '09 looks surprisingly clean.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=11791&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedWithinSite_false_0&distance=50&sortType=DEAL_SCORE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d337#listing=289268685

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=11791&showNegotiable=true&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=untrackedWithinSite_false_0&distance=50&sortType=DEAL_SCORE&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=d337#listing=287314938

stickguy

qbrozen said:

for you GTi shoppers. https://carsandbids.com/auctions/KDLam2GG/2015-volkswagen-gti-autobahn?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=new

miles are good, and seems well taken care of. But I thought 2015 was a year to avoid (first year of the new model). Other than that, just the wrong color and wrong pedal count!

qbrozen

Not sure about the year. What would make it any different, mechanically speaking? Same TSI 2.0 and DSG gearbox as years prior, I thought.

stickguy

I did some researching when I got interested in them a few months ago. Not sure what source, but there were definitely common problems with certain years. I think it was early Mk6, then the initial MYs of the MK7. Not quite sure what, and it might have been more significant with the 2010ish models. But there were definitely a few MYs to, if not completely avoid, at least be more careful with and look for certain problem areas.

28firefighter

There was a turbo issue on the 2015s. Also if you step up to a 2016, CarPlay is included even on the base S.

stickguy

If I do get one, it will be 2018 or up. unless I go much older and cheap, though nice older ones still seem to hold their value.