Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

I wish my wife would stick with a nice non-premium brand. Mazda, Subaru or Honda, would save me a bundle!

henryn

ab348 said:

henryn said:

Undoubtedly. You have to remember those cars (Cadillac DTS, 2006 to 2011) were designed for, built for, marketed to, and sold to “seniors”. It was a strategy that worked. Then new management came in and didn’t want to be associated with “old folk’s cars”, so they changed the emphasis to try and compete with BMW. Which didn’t work, and sales tanked.

Well, that platform (which also carried the Buick Lucerne) went out of production and was fairly ancient. Cadillac replaced it with the XTS (based off the Lacrosse/Impala platform) which was a really nice car tailored to the traditional Caddy buyer. That did OK for them and is one I would snap up if a low-miles one-owner version popped up nearby. When I see a nice one on the road around here it always turns my head.

Between those three (Lucerne, Impala, and XTS) the only one ever offered without the center console was the Impala. And I really don't like the interior of the Impala (it shouts "CHEAP").

henryn

Speaking of crazy prices for old trucks, here’s an example that has gone up precipitously over the last year or so.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-2006-chevy-silverado/7323373154.html

A 15 year old Chevy half ton, with 165k miles, 6 cylinder engine, manual crank windows. 18 months ago you could have picked this up for $3k to $3.5k. Now it’s $6.7k, and he will probably get that. If it had PW, PDL, V8 engine, you’re looking at $9k or $10k.

stickguy

That’s why I’ll likely never end up with one!

tjc78

@ab348 said:
Well, that platform (which also carried the Buick Lucerne) went out of production and was fairly ancient. Cadillac replaced it with the XTS (based off the Lacrosse/Impala platform) which was a really nice car tailored to the traditional Caddy buyer. That did OK for them and is one I would snap up if a low-miles one-owner version popped up nearby. When I see a nice one on the road around here it always turns my head.

I like the XTS. Sharp car.

nyccarguy

Got this email from a Ford dealer today:
I spoke to my manager about your trade and like you said, we would really need to see it to put a value on it. It could be in the area that you had mentioned but cant guarantee it without seeing it. I did numbers for you on the Explorer that you had picked out and a 24 month lease with 19500 miles would run $781. We only have 3 Explorers left but that one is still availabe at this time. Let me know what you think. Thanks Chris

I emailed back and politely thanked him for his help. I asked him how he came up with the $781 payment.

I received this response:

In todays market with the extreme shortage of vehicles, ( I only have 3 Explorers in stock when I normally have 30 or so) they are selling over the MSRP . Let me know if you are good with the payment. Once these 3 Explorers are gone, we wont have any for quite some time. Thanks Chris

corvette

I love how he volunteers that you are paying over MSRP, but won't tell you exactly how much.

au1994

nyccarguy said:

Got this email from a Ford dealer today:
I spoke to my manager about your trade and like you said, we would really need to see it to put a value on it. It could be in the area that you had mentioned but cant guarantee it without seeing it. I did numbers for you on the Explorer that you had picked out and a 24 month lease with 19500 miles would run $781. We only have 3 Explorers left but that one is still availabe at this time. Let me know what you think. Thanks Chris

I emailed back and politely thanked him for his help. I asked him how he came up with the $781 payment.

I received this response:

In todays market with the extreme shortage of vehicles, ( I only have 3 Explorers in stock when I normally have 30 or so) they are selling over the MSRP . Let me know if you are good with the payment. Once these 3 Explorers are gone, we wont have any for quite some time. Thanks Chris

Sigh…. Cue the Dana Carvey “not gonna do it” impression from back in the day.

Not interested in these shenanigans so I will, reluctantly, sit tight.

tjc78

Same games dealers play if they are discounting or not. I’ve yet to find one that will volunteer the figures on a lease (except payment) without pulling teeth.

I even had one that said none of that matters to me... I said, well I can do the math and it does matter to me....give me all the data you are using to calculate the payment or I will find another dealer. I ended up with the latter.

kyfdx

The problem with a 19,500 mile/year lease from Ford, is you lose the same 3% of residual vs. 15K/yr, as you would on a longer term (36 or 39 months). So, 3% extra in depreciation, amortized over just 24 months.

Even if they give you a decent deal on the vehicle, it will never be cost effective.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

Got this email from a Ford dealer today:
I spoke to my manager about your trade and like you said, we would really need to see it to put a value on it. It could be in the area that you had mentioned but cant guarantee it without seeing it. I did numbers for you on the Explorer that you had picked out and a 24 month lease with 19500 miles would run $781. We only have 3 Explorers left but that one is still availabe at this time. Let me know what you think. Thanks Chris

I emailed back and politely thanked him for his help. I asked him how he came up with the $781 payment.

I received this response:

In todays market with the extreme shortage of vehicles, ( I only have 3 Explorers in stock when I normally have 30 or so) they are selling over the MSRP . Let me know if you are good with the payment. Once these 3 Explorers are gone, we wont have any for quite some time. Thanks Chris

I love the passive language. "Darn those cars! Mr Customer, I am on your side, but 'they' are selling over MSRP. Ya know, if my dealership could sell them for the same profit as always, we totally would, but it is obviously out of our hands. So, we're cool, right? You'll pay?"

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

I even had one that said none of that matters to me...

I would have just gotten up to leave.
him: "What happened? Where are you going?"
me: "None of that matters to you."

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

The problem with a 19,500 mile/year lease from Ford, is you lose the same 3% of residual vs. 15K/yr, as you would on a longer term (36 or 39 months). So, 3% extra in depreciation, amortized over just 24 months.

Even if they give you a decent deal on the vehicle, it will never be cost effective.

Right. I can only work within the parameters of the program. With the miles we both drive, I'm not comfortable with being out of warranty on an Explorer for 1/2 of a 3 year lease. That's why I have been looking at 24 month leases on the Explorer.

stickguy

Well, you did ask for a payment. Which is what 99% of lease shoppers do. So unlikely they would give all the details unless you specifically ask for them.

And in this case, I have no issues with them wanting full sticker. Customers don’t feel sorry for the dealer when they are overstocked and sell a unit for no profit. It’s all supply and demand, right? If you don’t want it, somebody will buy it soon enough.

Maybe ask for a 36 month number. Sounds like it could be a lot lower.

henryn

nyccarguy said:

In todays market with the extreme shortage of vehicles, ( I only have 3 Explorers in stock when I normally have 30 or so) they are selling over the MSRP . Let me know if you are good with the payment. Once these 3 Explorers are gone, we wont have any for quite some time. Thanks Chris

If that is true, then I wouldn't blame the dealer for asking MSRP, or even over (if not too much over). But is it true? Are things that skinny out there?

I just checked the stock at my closest Ford dealer. They show 15 Explorers, 1 of which is on order, and 1 is a courtesy car, so 13 actual new explorers. Four are XLT trim, showing a $1,000 dealer discount. The 2021 Platinum models are also showing $1,000 discount from MSRP. He does show 2 leftover 2020 Platinum models, with around $6,000 discount.

https://www.rsford.com/searchnew.aspx?Type=N&Make=Ford&Model=Explorer&pt=1

tjc78

@stickguy said:
Well, you did ask for a payment. Which is what 99% of lease shoppers do. So unlikely they would give all the details unless you specifically ask for them.

And in this case, I have no issues with them wanting full sticker. Customers don’t feel sorry for the dealer when they are overstocked and sell a unit for no profit. It’s all supply and demand, right? If you don’t want it, somebody will buy it soon enough.

Maybe ask for a 36 month number. Sounds like it could be a lot lower.

Whenever I’m quoting out a lease I specify I want all the details used to calculate the payment. I’ve never received it on the first email back and many times not the second or third.

au1994

tjc78 said:

@stickguy said:

Well, you did ask for a payment. Which is what 99% of lease shoppers do. So unlikely they would give all the details unless you specifically ask for them.

And in this case, I have no issues with them wanting full sticker. Customers don’t feel sorry for the dealer when they are overstocked and sell a unit for no profit. It’s all supply and demand, right? If you don’t want it, somebody will buy it soon enough.

Maybe ask for a 36 month number. Sounds like it could be a lot lower.

Whenever I’m quoting out a lease I specify I want all the details used to calculate the payment. I’ve never received it on the first email back and many times not the second or third.

Asking for the selling price on a lease is like asking for the KFC 11 herbs and spices.

ab348

henryn said:

I just checked the stock at my closest Ford dealer. They show 15 Explorers, 1 of which is on order, and 1 is a courtesy car, so 13 actual new explorers. Four are XLT trim, showing a $1,000 dealer discount. The 2021 Platinum models are also showing $1,000 discount from MSRP. He does show 2 leftover 2020 Platinum models, with around $6,000 discount.

I have 3 Ford dealers locally and collectively they show 27 2021 Explorers in inventory. All have a $1000 incentive. I suspect these do not sell as well here as in other locations.

stickguy

You would be in that ~1%. Same people that would hang out here and LH, and create their own lease payment spreadsheet calculator!

Most customers, especially on a cold call like that, want the DAS and payment.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

So I put the Outback into Carmax and they're offering $33,200. That's nearly $1000 more than we paid for it 2 years ago and $6500 in equity. If we took it, it would mean driving it for free for the last 2 years.

*If* you took it?! You better be running....

With the Jeep on the way, it seems like you don't need to be in any great hurry to get another.

xwesx

@28firefighter

Oh, my. I decided to push a quote request through CarMax on the Crosstrek.... $20,200. For comparison's sake, I did the same for Vroom, and they increased their offer from $19,200 in early April to $20,584 today. That. Is. Nuts!

If this craziness holds out for another 6-8 weeks, I am going to have a serious conversation with my wife about it. Honestly, it's probably far better for us to just offload it now than to keep it -or- take it home.

au1994

xwesx said:

@28firefighter

Oh, my. I decided to push a quote request through CarMax on the Crosstrek.... $20,200. For comparison's sake, I did the same for Vroom, and they increased their offer from $19,200 in early April to $20,584 today. That. Is. Nuts!

If this craziness holds out for another 6-8 weeks, I am going to have a serious conversation with my wife about it. Honestly, it's probably far better for us to just offload it now than to keep it -or- take it home.

Perfect! You are in a position to take advantage as you don’t NEED the Crosstrek.

roadburner

au1994 said:

stickguy said:

Simple questions to save a lot of wasted time. Learned from experience wasting hours with someone that either can never afford it, or has totally unreasonable expectations.

An uninformed customer doesn’t do anyone any favors. I would probably be shocked at the % of people that walk in not knowing how much they owe on their trade. Now prior to this crazy blip in the market just about everyone thinks their trade is worth more than what is offered but again, I bet there is a high % with such an inflated expectation, a deal is not possible.

I dealt with a few screwy customers at BMW, but I'm sure it was nothing in comparison to the looky-loos and wingnuts I'd encounter a mass-market store.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

henryn said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Too good to be true?
https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/ctd/d/largo-amazing-6k-mileyes-6k-ford-ranger/7321502104.html

No, I believe it. Such occurrences (10 years old, 6k miles) are rare, but definitely do happen. In 1968, my last year in high school, one of my best friends got hold of a 1954 Oldsmobile with 18k miles. 324 V8, 4 speed hydramatic. It had the original tires, and when he started driving it out on the highway at speed, chunks of rubber flew off the tires. Tommy drove that car for 3 years, and then sold it to my younger brother, who drove it for another 2 years. It might still be running, if he hadn't loaned it to someone who wrecked it.

ON EDIT:
https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/houston-2008-cadillac-dts-33k-mint/7322966872.html

13 year old Cadillac with 33k miles, one elderly owner. A few years back, I purchased a similar car, a 2006 DTS with thirty-something thousand miles. One owner, perfect condition, beautiful red (not the god-awful black over black in this ad).

The reason I finally sold that Cadillac? The tires leaked. I bought a new set of Michelins, had bead sealant applied twice, still had to air up the tires every second or third day. Finally searched around on Cadillac specific forums and discovered that was a known problem with the factory chrome wheels. A set of good looking wheels, that would go well with that car, was going to run me over a thousand dollars, all in, and I just didn't want to sink that much more into the car.

no moonroof on that Caddy seems odd.

Then there's the Geritol stains on the seats to deal with- and having to remove the "Ask Me About My Grandchildren" stickers.

explorerx4

@nyccarguy,
Have you looked into buying an extended service plan for your Pilot?
Not sure if you can buy Honda Care or maybe get a 3rd party that your indy guy is willing to work with.
Could be the cheapest option over the next 2 to 3 years.

breld

@nyccarguy - just a random shot in the dark, but how would a leftover 2020 MDX work for you? Acura dealers local to me seem to have plenty of inventory still, all while the brand new redesigned 2022 model is hitting the lots. Maybe they would be anxious to sell/lease one of the older models.

benjaminh

My local Acura dealer is still offering good leases on the 2020 MDX ($390 a month + fees TTL, otherwise nothing down), although this is for one of those 7500 mile a year leases. Acura is also offering 0.9% for up to 72 months for financing.
https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/newspecials.html

Sandman6472

Dropped off a few vehicles at the Mini Cooper store and found a few Countryman vehicles for a decent price, under $30K nicely equipped. Like the four doors and rack up top and like knowing it's a BMW underneath. But unsure about their reliability. And know I don't want boring either. So, we'll keep looking & wait another year.
Have an oil change at the VW store for the 27th as it'll be one year in June since the last one. Have only driven around 3K miles since but not going over a year without one. Cheap insurance I figure as I'm still keeping it around for another year if I can. Hope to get a late 2022 model or even a 2023 but, time will tell. Takes me awhile to find what I really want, but when I do, I make it happen, usually within a week it seems. And most times, they call me back to do the deal. With this current chip situation, things are quite different so hoping to be able to hold out until it's all over with and things get back to normal in that industry.

nyccarguy

Re: 2020 MDX

It’s a good suggestion. I’ll have to reach out, but I think the time to buy/lease a 2020 was last month. I’ll have to check on the 2020 Acura MDX lease board here, but I think the residual might be on the low side and I might not be able to get a healthy discount due to supply issues.

corvette

benjaminh said:

My local Acura dealer is still offering good leases on the 2020 MDX ($390 a month + fees TTL, otherwise nothing down), although this is for one of those 7500 mile a year leases. Acura is also offering 0.9% for up to 72 months for financing.
https://www.acuraatoxmoor.com/newspecials.html

Darn, that would work for me if I needed one. I could easily stay under the mileage cap if I just rented something to take on road trips.

henryn

Sandman6472 said:

Dropped off a few vehicles at the Mini Cooper store and found a few Countryman vehicles for a decent price, under $30K nicely equipped. Like the four doors and rack up top and like knowing it's a BMW underneath. But unsure about their reliability. And know I don't want boring either. So, we'll keep looking & wait another year.
Have an oil change at the VW store for the 27th as it'll be one year in June since the last one. Have only driven around 3K miles since but not going over a year without one. Cheap insurance I figure as I'm still keeping it around for another year if I can. Hope to get a late 2022 model or even a 2023 but, time will tell. Takes me awhile to find what I really want, but when I do, I make it happen, usually within a week it seems. And most times, they call me back to do the deal. With this current chip situation, things are quite different so hoping to be able to hold out until it's all over with and things get back to normal in that industry.

Most cars these days have "oil minders" that are going to pop up after 12 months and tell you to get an oil change, even if you have only driven 3k miles.

andres3

sda said:

henryn said:

sda said:

henryn said:

Now this is interesting.

https://houston.craigslist.org/cto/d/league-city-2010-volkswagen-passat/7308253932.html

A 2010 Passat, looks very clean in the pictures. I believe that was the last year model which came with the good 2.0T engine, not the newer watered down engine. And the DSG transmission.

Looks nice. I really liked my 06 Passat 2.0t. I thought the 2010 Passat had the 6sp Aisin sourced automatic like my 06 had.

I'm going by this article in Motor Trend: https://www.motortrend.com/cars/volkswagen/passat/2010/

My 2008 Passat 2.0t also had the normal 6 speed automatic transmission with torque converter. But Motor Trend says all of the 2010's had the DSG

The Passat is equipped with VW's peppy 2.0-liter turbocharged inline-four, which is now its only engine as the optional V-6 has been dropped. In addition, the six-speed manual and automatic gearboxes and the all-wheel drive option are also gone for 2010. None of that is really missed (except maybe the manual tranny), as the turbo-four -- mated to the standard auto-clutch DSG manual -- offers peppy response and good fuel economy.

I learned something today! It would be nice to know how the DSG performs vs the traditional auto. As you know VW reverted back the traditional auto on the 2.5, 1.8t and 2.0t.

NOT in the Alltrack and GTI's; still DSG. Same with Golf R.
A3/S3/RS3/TT/TTS/TTRS/A4/R8 all still use DSG as far as I know.
S6 did recently; not sure if they still do. Not sure about RS5 and RS7's, but if like RS6, that means ZF 8 speed.

xwesx

We managed to convince my grandmother that she should stop driving and sell her car. Strong offers all around: About $15K from Carmax and Carvana. Hopefully we can get the sale set up soon to keep her from the temptation of getting in it.

2014 Ford Escape Titanium AWD w/ 51K miles.

ronsteve

henryn said:

Most cars these days have "oil minders" that are going to pop up after 12 months and tell you to get an oil change, even if you have only driven 3k miles.

Yes, the wife's Jetta did that earlier this spring... I ended up about a month past the 1-year mark and just over 3K miles since the previous oil change. The RDX will soon pass the Jetta in mileage.

ronsteve

So this is a little insulated from the crazy, and more than a little tempting... https://carsandbids.com/auctions/r4z8zEwx/2009-volvo-v50-t5-awd-r-design

kyfdx

ronsteve said:

So this is a little insulated from the crazy, and more than a little tempting... https://carsandbids.com/auctions/r4z8zEwx/2009-volvo-v50-t5-awd-r-design

Wow... low miles

qbrozen

Black/black kills it for me, personally.

And I bet the bidding goes WAY up before the bell.

stickguy

Love the Volvo, hate the colors. And of course, better with a stick!

kyfdx

stickguy said:

Love the Volvo, hate the colors. And of course, better with a stick!

Could you get the AWD wagon with a stick, though?

ronsteve

@kyfdx said:
Could you get the AWD wagon with a stick, though?

I’m pretty sure you couldn’t.

Not a fan of the black interior myself but the biggest question I would have to answer before bidding is whether the cargo area was wide enough.

corvette

qbrozen said:

Black/black kills it for me, personally.

And I bet the bidding goes WAY up before the bell.

I'd bet the same thing. It will probably sell in the mid teens.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

Sandman6472 said:

Dropped off a few vehicles at the Mini Cooper store and found a few Countryman vehicles for a decent price, under $30K nicely equipped. Like the four doors and rack up top and like knowing it's a BMW underneath. But unsure about their reliability. And know I don't want boring either. So, we'll keep looking & wait another year.
Have an oil change at the VW store for the 27th as it'll be one year in June since the last one. Have only driven around 3K miles since but not going over a year without one. Cheap insurance I figure as I'm still keeping it around for another year if I can. Hope to get a late 2022 model or even a 2023 but, time will tell. Takes me awhile to find what I really want, but when I do, I make it happen, usually within a week it seems. And most times, they call me back to do the deal. With this current chip situation, things are quite different so hoping to be able to hold out until it's all over with and things get back to normal in that industry.

Most cars these days have "oil minders" that are going to pop up after 12 months and tell you to get an oil change, even if you have only driven 3k miles.

That’s what happens with my Ford no matter how few miles I drive. I much prefer the one in my Chevy that triggers at 5k miles even if it takes years to get there.

oldfarmer50

ronsteve said:

So this is a little insulated from the crazy, and more than a little tempting... https://carsandbids.com/auctions/r4z8zEwx/2009-volvo-v50-t5-awd-r-design

I don’t have the same affinity for Volvos as most of you. That’s a nice car, well preserved and low miles but what makes it special otherwise?

qbrozen

oldfarmer50 said:

ronsteve said:

So this is a little insulated from the crazy, and more than a little tempting... https://carsandbids.com/auctions/r4z8zEwx/2009-volvo-v50-t5-awd-r-design

I don’t have the same affinity for Volvos as most of you. That’s a nice car, well preserved and low miles but what makes it special otherwise?

turbo, AWD, compact wagon with some of the most comfortable seats in the business. What's not to love?

qbrozen

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

Black/black kills it for me, personally.

And I bet the bidding goes WAY up before the bell.

I'd bet the same thing. It will probably sell in the mid teens.

Exactly my thought. $15k.

breld

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

Love the Volvo, hate the colors. And of course, better with a stick!

Could you get the AWD wagon with a stick, though?

Yes, you could. I only know that because I test drove one back in the day.

stickguy

I thought so. I know the S40 version came that way.

roadburner

A 2019 Sunset Orange M2 Comp popped up at a local dealer. 5,400 miles, $59k. One of my contacts at BMW knows one of the sales guys there so if the VIN checks out I’ll give it a look. The sole demerit is a missing pedal. 😟

stickguy

If a stick is that important, hold out for it. IMO, if you are spending that kind of money, you better get exactly what you want!

kyfdx

I love stick shifts, but I drove an M2 competition in the autocross, last summer. I didn't miss it.

That said, I still wouldn't buy one without a stick.