Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

xwesx

qbrozen said:

so, fyi, for those who commented on my Transit comments, the cargo Transit I am renting right now has a far better seat and seating position than the outfitted conversion we drove.

I am currently trying to talk the wife into one of those rather than the Sprinter. It is like $10k cheaper.

The Ford comes in a diesel variant as well, doesn't it? Not sure about the AWD, but you can do an aftermarket conversion as well (though that would certainly eat up the $10K difference).

stickguy

Fords hybrid doesn’t actually have a CVT. It is a planetary gear set. No rubber band!

stickguy

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:

so, fyi, for those who commented on my Transit comments, the cargo Transit I am renting right now has a far better seat and seating position than the outfitted conversion we drove.

I am currently trying to talk the wife into one of those rather than the Sprinter. It is like $10k cheaper.

The Ford comes in a diesel variant as well, doesn't it? Not sure about the AWD, but you can do an aftermarket conversion as well (though that would certainly eat up the $10K difference).

Transit does come in AWD. the last one I rented had it.

xwesx

Well, I'm home now!

I thought I would follow up with the Forester wheels that I bought from Discount Tire and hauled north with me. I won't be installing them until the spring, but here's a quick preview next to the Forester:







While they look bigger than stock in the photos, they are really the same circumference (within 0.7%). I think it is a combo of perspective and a couple inches of snow on which the unmounted tire is resting.

sda

stickguy said:

Fords hybrid doesn’t actually have a CVT. It is a planetary gear set. No rubber band!

Good to know, that makes a difference. I think everything I’ve read has said CVT thus the confusion.

stickguy

That’s because most reviewers don’t actually sweat the details. Also doesn’t help that some companies call it an E-CVT to confuse people.

ab348

sda said:

stickguy said:

Fords hybrid doesn’t actually have a CVT. It is a planetary gear set. No rubber band!

Good to know, that makes a difference. I think everything I’ve read has said CVT thus the confusion.

Ford's website calls it a continuously variable transmission.

mjfloyd1

Here is Ford’s page. The hybrid has a CVT

explorerx4

One interesting comment in a review said there is no reverse in the hybrid Maverick. The electric motor spins the other way for reverse.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

The Ford comes in a diesel variant as well, doesn't it? Not sure about the AWD, but you can do an aftermarket conversion as well (though that would certainly eat up the $10K difference).

I haven't come across that option anywhere. They are making an E-transit for 2022, but wife wouldn't be interested. Wish they did it has a PHEV rather than full EV. Oh well. Anyway, it is AWD 3.5 Ecoboost. So a good combo, although likely thirsty.

mjfloyd1

This shows the 2.0 eco boost with 8 speed AT

Sandman6472

I like the original alloys on your Subaru to be honest. The new ones are nice looking but would use them with winter tires only and keep the originals for the warmer months. Wonder what the boss is going to prefer?

Sandman6472

On the towels & sheets the previous owners left, give them all a good wash in hot water and think y'all should be good to go. Why spend more $ now on such things when renters will be using them? Best to get some new ones when your family is at the condo and put the older ones out for the renters who will be happy to have them as long as they're clean and not ragged. They're on vacation & looking at the supplied linens will be the last thing on their minds truthfully.
Use the old for the renters and get some new for your family if necessary but doubt they will be needed.

Sandman6472

Seems like one of my co-workers at Enterprise wants to take over my gig at the Toyota dealer once I hand in my notice in early January. I'd feel much better having a replacement set up for them when I do quit so they won't be short handed. I've done it now and know I can do it, I'm just tired of putting in so many hours each week when it's really not necessary. It's only coming out to an extra $100/week at $9.00/hour and now, as of October 1st, we should be getting an extra buck an hour up to $10. But, think the extra time relaxing will be worth it more to my body so I can give my spine a much needed rest. It really hit me this past Sunday when I was literally in bed most of the day in pain and unable to move much. Decided right then & there that it's just not worth all this for working those additional 12 hours/week. Don't really have to & won't miss the extra income really so, why keep doing it?
Current plan is to give my notice on January 2nd and hopefully my co-worker can slot right in once I do leave. A big weight has been lifted from my shoulders since I've come up with this plan!

explorerx4

If qbrozen has someone manage the rental, laundry service will be included, so the service will supply the linens.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:

The Ford comes in a diesel variant as well, doesn't it? Not sure about the AWD, but you can do an aftermarket conversion as well (though that would certainly eat up the $10K difference).

I haven't come across that option anywhere. They are making an E-transit for 2022, but wife wouldn't be interested. Wish they did it has a PHEV rather than full EV. Oh well. Anyway, it is AWD 3.5 Ecoboost. So a good combo, although likely thirsty.

Hmm... I wonder if they did away with the option already? If so, that was short-lived! There are many of them out there; I see them on the road with regularity. If I recall correctly, the diesel is a 5-cylinder, maybe 2.5 or 2.7 liter? It is the same engine available (or previously available) in the F150.

qbrozen

explorerx4 said:

If qbrozen has someone manage the rental, laundry service will be included, so the service will supply the linens.

bingo.
They don't want them, either.

xwesx

Sandman6472 said:

I like the original alloys on your Subaru to be honest. The new ones are nice looking but would use them with winter tires only and keep the originals for the warmer months. Wonder what the boss is going to prefer?

She doesn't care that much, tbh. I tried to engage her on it, but she wasn't interested. Normally, I would have the smaller wheels on winter tires, but economics ruled this one. I think I may let go of the 17" wheels at some point and just go with 15" year round. At around $60 cheaper per tire, I like the 15" more and more; I'm not sure I want to buy less rubber and pay more for it any longer!

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

If qbrozen has someone manage the rental, laundry service will be included, so the service will supply the linens.

Bubble = burst. Thanks for that!

stickguy

I'm surprised they just call it CVT, since that has a negative connotation. Plus they did a lot of work to make sure it wasn't one! A few of the reviewers pointed that out. I found this from back when they developed it from a Wards article.

"the electrified CVT differs from traditional CVTs in many regards.

A traditional CVT has two pulleys, one attached to the engine and the other to the wheels. A belt running between the pulleys is made shorter or longer by compressing or relieving the pulleys, which creates continuously variable gear ratios.

Many hybrids utilize CVTs rather than a traditional step transmission because they offer an infinite number of gear ratios, therefore offering optimized fuel economy in most situations.

The electrified CVT replaces the pulleys with motors, one of which is connected to the wheels and the other to a planetary gear set. The gear set has three connections, one to the engine, one to the wheels and one to a second electric motor, called a generator motor.

“Because of this unique (setup), we can form a unique planetary arrangement,” Kozarekar says. “We can change the (electric) motor speed and choose any speed we want to operate the engine.”

The great degree of flexibility enables the engine and transmission to run at the most efficient points because the control software can choose the optimal electric motor and gear ratio combinations.

Kozarekar says Ford considered using a traditional CVT in the new hybrid vehicles, but determined an electrified version was the way to go despite its greater complexity.

“In our estimate, the electrical CVT, with the right motor, engine and mechanical operations, is more efficient than a CVT,” he says, noting it took about three years to develop the HF35."

stickguy

on the Transit, I can't swear to it, but I think the one I had (long WB high roof 250 AWD) was just running the NA 3.5 motor. Not exactly quick, especially trying to pull bigger hills on the Mass pike. Just floor it, and wait it out!

sda

stickguy said:

I'm surprised they just call it CVT, since that has a negative connotation. Plus they did a lot of work to make sure it wasn't one! A few of the reviewers pointed that out. I found this from back when they developed it from a Wards article.

"the electrified CVT differs from traditional CVTs in many regards.

A traditional CVT has two pulleys, one attached to the engine and the other to the wheels. A belt running between the pulleys is made shorter or longer by compressing or relieving the pulleys, which creates continuously variable gear ratios.

Many hybrids utilize CVTs rather than a traditional step transmission because they offer an infinite number of gear ratios, therefore offering optimized fuel economy in most situations.

The electrified CVT replaces the pulleys with motors, one of which is connected to the wheels and the other to a planetary gear set. The gear set has three connections, one to the engine, one to the wheels and one to a second electric motor, called a generator motor.

“Because of this unique (setup), we can form a unique planetary arrangement,” Kozarekar says. “We can change the (electric) motor speed and choose any speed we want to operate the engine.”

The great degree of flexibility enables the engine and transmission to run at the most efficient points because the control software can choose the optimal electric motor and gear ratio combinations.

Kozarekar says Ford considered using a traditional CVT in the new hybrid vehicles, but determined an electrified version was the way to go despite its greater complexity.

“In our estimate, the electrical CVT, with the right motor, engine and mechanical operations, is more efficient than a CVT,” he says, noting it took about three years to develop the HF35."

I just watched Alex on Autos review, he described it just as the article you provided states. It does sound like a better set up than a belt driven CVT. I’m rather impressed by the Maverick.

stickguy

after learning more about it, and watching a lot of the videos, the hyrbrid really does sound like a good option. Plus Alex said that powertrain was actually Fords most durable and reliable at this point.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

on the Transit, I can't swear to it, but I think the one I had (long WB high roof 250 AWD) was just running the NA 3.5 motor. Not exactly quick, especially trying to pull bigger hills on the Mass pike. Just floor it, and wait it out!

most likely. They had the 3.7 NA first, then went to the 3.5. The ecoboost is optional, which mean, of course, no rental fleet would choose it.

oldfarmer50

xwesx said:

Sandman6472 said:

I like the original alloys on your Subaru to be honest. The new ones are nice looking but would use them with winter tires only and keep the originals for the warmer months. Wonder what the boss is going to prefer?

She doesn't care that much, tbh. I tried to engage her on it, but she wasn't interested. Normally, I would have the smaller wheels on winter tires, but economics ruled this one. I think I may let go of the 17" wheels at some point and just go with 15" year round. At around $60 cheaper per tire, I like the 15" more and more; I'm not sure I want to buy less rubber and pay more for it any longer!

That’s what I don’t get about women, they’re all involved with kids and relationships but care nothing about the important stuff like wheels and tires.

stickguy

I spend 3 months analyzing and obsessing over what tires to get when it is time. She is lucky to notice the car needs gas before it runs out, and wouldn't know it got new tires unless she looked to see why the CC was high that month.

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

xwesx said:

Sandman6472 said:

I like the original alloys on your Subaru to be honest. The new ones are nice looking but would use them with winter tires only and keep the originals for the warmer months. Wonder what the boss is going to prefer?

She doesn't care that much, tbh. I tried to engage her on it, but she wasn't interested. Normally, I would have the smaller wheels on winter tires, but economics ruled this one. I think I may let go of the 17" wheels at some point and just go with 15" year round. At around $60 cheaper per tire, I like the 15" more and more; I'm not sure I want to buy less rubber and pay more for it any longer!

That’s what I don’t get about women, they’re all involved with kids and relationships but care nothing about the important stuff like wheels and tires.

You don’t know my wife. All of the above plus she has a clear opinion of what wheels and her vehicle should look like. She likes motorcycles and boats, preferably pontoon as well. Last time I replaced tires she quickly asked why I didn’t buy Michelins.

xwesx

If only..... if only.

explorerx4

My wife doesn't like me driving her vehicle un less it needs service.
She also keeps it very clean, scrubs the wheels and tires when she washes it.
Last time I brought it in for service, when I was paying the bill, the SA said it was the cleanest one she has seen.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

after learning more about it, and watching a lot of the videos, the hyrbrid really does sound like a good option. Plus Alex said that powertrain was actually Fords most durable and reliable at this point.

My guess is that you'll probably only keep the Maverick for a couple of years. When it comes time to sell, I think a fair number who are buying a used Ford truck won't want a hybrid—they'll want the powerful engine. My guess is that you'd get back the $1000 extra you paid for the 2 liter turbo in resale value. It's true that for that two years or so you'd save on gas with the hybrid, but since you'd probably only drive it c. 7k miles a year or so, the savings wouldn't be very big. The fact that the hybrid lasts a long time, given that you'd likely only keep it for a couple of years, seems like it might not be a big reason to switch, but I'm not sure? My guess is the ecoboost engine will last a long time too.

If you give up your 2.0T Maverick for the dealer to sell, as you say, it'll probably be something like March or April before you could get a Maverick with the hybrid. But all during that time of no car ownership you'd be saving money each month. I myself wouldn't want to live without a vehicle, but so far you seem to be managing pretty well. By the time a hybrid Maverick could be built for you maybe you'd be looking at 10k or more in savings.

stickguy

well, people who want the more powerful engine, probably want AWD too. If anything, on a FWD the hybrid could help resale. But I don't really pick something based on potential resale (other than when it factors into a lease payment!) I try to buy what I want. No reason to think I won't keep this a long time. More likely to just pay it off and buy a toy to go with it!

corvette

explorerx4 said:

One interesting comment in a review said there is no reverse in the hybrid Maverick. The electric motor spins the other way for reverse.

I think hybrids with a planetary gearset may work that way, but I'm not certain. My Prius will kick in the gas engine when reversing, but I'm not sure it's directly driving the wheels--it could just be providing power for the electric motor.

As others have noted: IMO, a planetary gearset on a hybrid is a type of CVT, but doesn't involve the "rubber band" belt and pulley system that is traditionally associated with CVTs. It's kind of like how all bourbon is whiskey, but not all whiskey is bourbon.

stickguy

I believe (from what was explained in the review) the motor actually always drives the wheels, the engine just puts power into it like the battery does. And reverse is just running the motor backwards.

and yes, I wildly oversimplified that!

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
My wife doesn't like me driving her vehicle un less it needs service.
She also keeps it very clean, scrubs the wheels and tires when she washes it.
Last time I brought it in for service, when I was paying the bill, the SA said it was the cleanest one she has seen.

This is not the norm.

My wife has never in her life washed a car, bought a car (by herself) or serviced a car.

She drives a car and that’s it.

tjc78

@stickguy
I’d stay with the more powerful engine. No one ever says I should have went with less power. (Or bought a smaller TV) lol.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

8.5 for a hybrid with that kind of economy is not pokey to me. Certainly quicker than a Prius!

And some tests are getting faster than that with the hybrid Maverick. The hybrid certainly has impressive mpg for a truck. And you'd save by not having a vehicle for another c.6 months.

Or, since resale values for used cars are expected to stay high, I wonder if it might possibly work out okay to buy your Maverick 2.0T while you wait for a Maverick hybrid? Since you're getting the Maverick 2.0T at 4% under invoice, you might be able to trade in it in c.6 months for not much less than you paid for it. But the problem, of course, would be the taxes. Although your resale value would likely be very good, you'd end up paying sales taxes twice. Although in some states with trade-in you only pay sales taxes on the difference. And so if you trade in at 27k for a new one for 28k you'd only pay sales taxes on about $1000, which wouldn't be much at all. But that depends on trading it in at the same place that you buy the new one, so you couldn't do Carvana, etc., although maybe you could use a quote from Carvana to up the trade-in quote at your Philly Ford dealer? Complicated!

Redline got a 0-60 of less than 8 seconds with the Maverick hybrid, but the hybrid does drone a bit while accelerating, as you can hear starting at 24:30. Redline got something like 6.5 seconds 0-60 with the 2.0T.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuKJgxou514&t=1682s

sda

tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:

My wife doesn't like me driving her vehicle un less it needs service.

She also keeps it very clean, scrubs the wheels and tires when she washes it.

Last time I brought it in for service, when I was paying the bill, the SA said it was the cleanest one she has seen.

This is not the norm.

My wife has never in her life washed a car, bought a car (by herself) or serviced a car.

She drives a car and that’s it.

That’s my daughter and yes I’ve spoiled her. Most of the time I take care of all of our ‘fleet’ but my wife will wash, vacuum, detail her car if I haven’t had a chance to do so. I do take care of the service needs.

ab348

stickguy said:

I believe (from what was explained in the review) the motor actually always drives the wheels, the engine just puts power into it like the battery does. And reverse is just running the motor backwards.

and yes, I wildly oversimplified that!

I'm not sure about that. What if the battery is empty of watts? Does that mean you cannot back up?

I can see the motor running backwards in a pure electric but I'm not so sure in this case.

One thing I wonder about is if this is a new transmission for Ford to be using and if it is only in the Maverick right now. If so I would be wary.

stickguy

They have been using it in the escape and fusion. I think the escape cabs running around NY were hybrids

qbrozen

Wife commented she would like to see these side by side, so I wrote it up for her. FYI, some things are missing from the Benz because the salesperson said those options are not currently available due to shortages. I based RV and gas on 5yr/60k miles. RV is as best as I can figure based on auction values of similar vehicles. Unfortunately, the same builds didn't exist 5 yrs ago.

tjc78

Looking at that sheet it makes a good case for the Transit.

qbrozen

I thought so, too, but she says Sprinter. So I can only think she had her mind made up before I bothered doing that for her.

kyfdx

@qbrozen

Rain sensor is for automated interval wipers.

28firefighter

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
My wife doesn't like me driving her vehicle un less it needs service.
She also keeps it very clean, scrubs the wheels and tires when she washes it.
Last time I brought it in for service, when I was paying the bill, the SA said it was the cleanest one she has seen.

This is not the norm.

My wife has never in her life washed a car, bought a car (by herself) or serviced a car.

She drives a car and that’s it.

The engine could fall out of the Subaru and I’d just get a call that a warning light was on and the car won’t drive.

ab348

*smart-azz comment about logic deleted*

jmonroe1

@stickguy said:
I believe (from what was explained in the review) the motor actually always drives the wheels, the engine just puts power into it like the battery does. And reverse is just running the motor backwards.

and yes, I wildly oversimplified that!

Like my first year electrical lab instructor used to say, “once you find electrons that are willing to run backwards it’s easy to run a motor in reverse.

jmonroe

jmonroe1

@tjc78 said:

@explorerx4 said:
My wife doesn't like me driving her vehicle un less it needs service.
She also keeps it very clean, scrubs the wheels and tires when she washes it.
Last time I brought it in for service, when I was paying the bill, the SA said it was the cleanest one she has seen.

This is not the norm.

My wife has never in her life washed a car, bought a car (by herself) or serviced a car.

She drives a car and that’s it.

I know where you wife’s twin sister separated at birth lives.

jmonroe

breld

qbrozen said:

Wife commented she would like to see these side by side, so I wrote it up for her. FYI, some things are missing from the Benz because the salesperson said those options are not currently available due to shortages. I based RV and gas on 5yr/60k miles. RV is as best as I can figure based on auction values of similar vehicles. Unfortunately, the same builds didn't exist 5 yrs ago.

I didn’t look at the comparison in detail, but mostly just admired the use of different shades of blue to greatly improve the presentation and readability of your spreadsheet.

kyfdx

Accountants…. sheeewwww

🙄

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

@qbrozen

Rain sensor is for automated interval wipers.

That's what I assumed but didn't want to make any promises. Odd to me they don't specify "auto wipers"