Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)
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We already have an appeals system in place.
Just trying to mess up a good thing.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
A panel of 3 or 5 judges.
Appeals are for the defense. Offense should be given equal rights.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I know that but maybe it’s time for a change.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
More insane pricing from or friends at CarMax
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Wife and I had a fun epic day of car browsing yesterday. Cliff notes…
Looked at 2 used JCW Clubmans - I mean, a 300 hp BMWish wagon. What’s not to like?
Drove the iX again…may place a no deposit no obligation order to get in the queue.
Mini dealer has an allocation for a soon-to-be-in production JCW Hardtop. Wife may upgrade.
Lusted after a CPO Audi e-tron GT.
Drove a used 718 Cayman for the first time…base model with PDK. Makes the list for attainable dream car someday. Gotta try a manual too though.
And came close to buying a new 2023 BRZ but decided to think more about it the rest of the weekend. Base model (which they call premium) manual for MSRP of $29,615, no fees.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
https://catskills.craigslist.org/ctd/d/catskill-2011-ford-ranger-super-cab-xlt/7517148456.html
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
If a newer JCW Clubman or GP turned up near me I’d be seriously tempted.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
At least someone can exercise some restraint around here.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Despite this, I was able to begin downloading navigation map updates which it said were available. I can't figure out whether they are being downloaded via a rogue 3G tower which is still running, via my home wifi via my cell phone's Bluetooth, or via my cell phone data plan via my cell phone's Bluetooth. The nav system "recommended" that it only download a three state region, however, if there are no capacity constraints, I will probably update them all.
I was tickled that my eight year old 2er lost some telematic features. I’d be really upset if I had a four year old car(or newer) that was affected.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I'm still digging on the Audi boards, but this is annoying and makes me very glad I use Waze... I started some built-in downloads tonight, but shut it down and put it on the battery maintainer once the 12v battery got down to 11.8 volts.
Here’s a pic of the Wrangler I am Jeep Sitting for my friend. Took it for a ride today to get groceries. Quite different than my 4Xe. The 6 speed is easy to drive.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The Alfa dealer still has the green/tan CPO 2020 Giulia Ti Sport; it’s attractive and reasonably priced. Still, I’m very hesitant due to the AWD and reliability issues.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
One of them is my Acura dealership, who was taken over by the infamous Cadillac dealership who I had poor experiences with. Speaking of which, my Acura dealer is looking quite forlorn. Barely anything new or used on the lot. And, many of the service folks have left.
Their competitor, about 10 miles away, looks like they’re beefing up on their inventory finally.
Which begs the question, my original dealership may be transitioning to selling something else. At least, that’s my guess.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
She did find a 2020 Lincoln Corsair she wants to look at this morning, however.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
They are delivering the RAM to my house (no additional charge, $250 savings) either Wednesday or Thursday. It is being picked up today.
It ended up with a pretty intense conversation today, but in the end this was the path of least resistance. I know backing this out considering the bank funded it would be a very big challenge. The broker did offer to buy it out but wasn’t 100% sure I would get out clean.
At any rate it is a pretty sweet deal especially in this market and he said they aren’t making any more of this model/package.
So in other words they wore me down…
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
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Nice to hear you got it worked out. Just be sure they ain’t delivering it to your shore residence.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
We were roaming lots yesterday and the local BMW dealer has a 2020 M2C in white that they've had for a few weeks now. About 19k miles, listed at $64k. The fact that it's been sitting for a bit gives me hope that pricing may come down. You'll be ahead of the curve if you can make a nice deal on yours.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Apparently I’m a sucker for any blue.

25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Nope.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
Well they are but I’ll be there. I have in writing the address change. If they screw up this last part I’ll be amazed.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
I’ve been seeing quite a few new Aviators lately. They look really good to me. I could see one being a replacement for the XC next year, however, I’d wager they aren’t a great lease.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic
My son has been struggling with overcoming his fear of swimming alone and riding his bike unassisted. He is fully capable, it was just psychological. This weekend he went from being unwilling to so much as leave the steps unassisted to jumping in the water, pushing off, and swimming across the pool by himself. Today, he went to bike camp being unwilling to so much as get on his bike and came home riding independently and getting moved up to the road readiness class.
I'm so proud of him for pushing through - it took him a bit longer, but he did it all on his own.
That’s great news!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
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You saw it first hand, all of a sudden kids hit a wall and everything stops. Then just as suddenly the wall crashes and they make a step change in the upward direction. If you can explain it you’re probably in the wrong profession. The point being this seems to be how kids grow up. Believe me, you’ll see more stuff like this before he’s grown. And then once grown they seem to regress permanently at least as far as parents are concerned.
Sit back and enjoy the ride.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
That’s a great story @28firefighter - thanks for sharing.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Some kids, it seems like they work through their fear and push through. Other kids see others with the skill and they don’t want to be left out and they push through.
Rather way, great results!
And that’s just it. He starts K in the fall and is already reading. But this stuff he’s just been in his head about it.
I got him on the road tonight on his bike. He’s so proud of himself.
A deal might be found if they can absorb all the "extended platinum CPO BMW warranty" on an old M2.
Why do I think it's overpriced? One reason is the market. 2nd reason is I loved the M240i.
I now KNOW why @roadburner said manuals were not "necessary" anymore. I felt the same way with dual clutches. However, I never drove a BMW tuned and programmed ZF-8 speed. That thing was magic. Amazing! It really made enough magic to convince me that BMW is lying and they really have a dual clutch in there.
The main difference, now that they made the '18 M240i a wonderful torque monster that makes up for the HP deficit vs. the OLD '18 M2 (still very close), they really are similar in sport or sport +.
The difference, comes down to a slightly snappier suspension in the M2; bigger wider tires/wheels, a superior growl, engine, and exhaust orchestra in the M2, and, well, bragging rights for having the "real" M vs. an M-line which is like an N-line at Hyundai. Thinking about it.
By the way, if your in the market for an Elantra and you don't need tons of HP (which the N has), get the N-Line at 201 HP; it's like a lesser interior GTI. The Elantra is very light though, the GTI heavy. This makes the 201 Korean horses clearly a notch faster than the 220 German horses. However, in a crash, I'd rather have the tank-like GTI. Either way I'd rather have the real N for the exhaust note alone.
With the BMW's, they are both six cylinder so the m240i doesn't sound bad; it just wasn't noticeable or distinguishable. The M2 was noticeable.
The M2 is long beach blue. The M240i was white... similar low mileage (around 18K); $15K delta (40 vs. 55 at asking). The M2 is CPO though.
https://www.vroom.com/inventory/bmw-2-series-2020-WBA2J5C09L7E67671
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
First stop was the Infiniti dealer, to get some updated information about lease end options. Was told we could either sell the car to them directly, and realize any equity, or buy the car out at the end of the lease (duh).
With that out of-the-way, we went across the street to the Mazda dealer. They had exactly one CX – 50 on the lot, so we decided to take it out for a test drive. This one was the turbo premium package, and it was very well loaded. Sticker price was $40,000, and the dealer had some “mandatory” accessories that bumped the price up to about $43,000. My sister liked it, a lot, but as you’ll see, she’s pretty fickle.
Next stop was the LR dealer that had both the Corsair and an X1. The X1 was Phytonic Blue over Mocha and only 6000 miles on it. Sister was in love! Took it for a short test drive and that didn’t dampen her spirits in the least. She texted photos of both cars to her husband (who works close by) and he preferred the Lincoln. Grey over black, 41,000 miles for $34k. We took that to his office and he sorta approved.
After that, my sister wanted to see the XC40, so off we went. They had a black over black T5 R-Design marked down $3k from sticker. Nice enough, but my sister - like most Volvo aficionados- wants the denim blue. The had a CPO 2021 XC60 T5 inscription AWD in that color. 12,000 miles for $48k. The BMW was quickly bumped from the top pedestal after about 30 seconds behind the wheel. It helped that the salesman was showing her all the features during the test drive.
I found another one at a different dealer - FWD, 16,000 miles for $44k. Ran out of time to see it.
Got home and she found some used denim blue XC40’s around as well, under $40k.
As I mentioned to @breld and @jpp75 on our text thread, her Venn diagram has about 12 circles in it. No idea where this will lead, but I’m glad she’s working tomorrow so I can do some sightseeing. We are going to the Padres game tomorrow night.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
The way I focus my sister is to say “if all had the same miles, price, and color, which would you choose?” That gets her real desire out of her so we can focus on that one vehicle and getting the best deal on it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Your comments got me to thinking about my time at The Henry Ford Museum over the weekend. Amazing place, by the way. I fully recommend for anyone in the area. However, plan on taking some time there! It's definitely a full day (if not more), and the prices are a bit eye watering, so it is certainly worth it to get your money's worth.
Anyhow, most of their informational signs near vehicles and trailers would state the original price, translate that to "today", and also note how many months, at the average wage, the car would cost you to buy. I would say that 7.5 to 8.5 months was pretty standard for most things. I was thinking, "Yeah, that sound about right." Of course, the high end stuff, such as the Bugatti (33 years) might be slightly higher than average.
That got me to thinking about how that really compares to today. According to the stats, the average US income currently is $53,560. Average new car price in July, based on transactions, is $48,182. Nearly 11 months. History says prices are pretty high right now!
It is kind of interesting. I would venture that part of the problem is higher standards and content, though. The average car even 20 yrs ago didn’t have anywhere near the engineering and standard features of today.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S