Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jpp75

I agree with you ak, I prefer an SUV but sometimes think something like an A4 or S4 would be fun, but I know I wouldn't be happy in long run. I tried it with a 330 about 4 years ago, lasted 6 months.

jpp75

The lease on the Ford seems a lot better than the lease on the Grand Cherokee from what I've seen so far. Residuals are in the upper 50's to low 60's. The Jeep was 43%

It's probably still not a great lease, but it's better than buying it and trying to sell it in 2 or 3 years.

I wish there was a calculator where you could put in the price of a car and get the "average" or "good" lease payments. I'd love to know what other cars in the $40 - $45k price range go for on leases, just so I can see what else I could get for the price. Jeep quoted me $741, Ford is around $650. So clearly the Ford looks a lot better, but maybe when you look at it the other way, and realize you're close to X5 or Land Rover territory at those prices, you realize it's not that great of a deal after all.

I'm going to look at a Limited Explorer this weekend, I want to really explore the My Ford Touch and see if I like it or if it's overkill as some think.

roadburner

The X3 xDrive35i currently has a 36 month lease for $639/month with no money down. X5 leases vary from $709 to $739/month- again with no money down. If I wanted an SUV with true off road ability I'd take the Jeep. If I wanted a CUV the FWD based Explorer wouldn't even merit my consideration.

akangl

If you're financing, they have some pretty good rates right now (.9% or 1.9% depending on term)

My salesguy mentioned that they were ending soon and probably wouldn't be in effect when my MDX came in. No big deal, we are only financing a tiny bit which we will pay off quickly.

Sandman6472

With the higher gas prices looming in the future, why would you want a vehicle that requires premium & has less than stellar mpg's? I'm sure there are other SUV's that cost less, use regular & have better mpg's. Personally, I'd keep what ya got now & fix up the Exploder, give your son the Civic& let hubby look for a more reasonably priced vehicle. But I'm at a different life stage than y'all...retired but still on the books using up all my leave...so buying any big ticket item right now won't happen until next year when we replace the Mazda3s.

At your stage, I'd probably be using that extra $ to pay down/off the mortgage...but we've always been financially conservative. We drive econocars & watch the pennies as well as the dollars, and paid off the house years & years ago. Owning it free & clear was worth the sacrifice of not driving a car that I really wanted, and being the car nut that I am, I wish I'd have a nicer car now than I've got. I get my fix coming in this forum to see how the other 1/2 live. So, life is good!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472

I've been driving my Civic for 4 + years now and it's a great car...good looking & cheap to keep. Not my dream car, that'll come at some later date. But it's never let me down, not once. You really could do worse!!!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

jpp75

I've never been a big fan of BMW. I had a 330 for a while back in 2006, just not my style. I do like the X5 but not enough to buy it.

I don't really need off road capabilities, the AWD system in the Explorer would meet my needs just fine, a few inches of snow now and then is about all I have to contend with. I just happen to like the way the Jeep drives better and the interior, but again not sure it's worth $750 per month.

I should just keep the 4Runner, it can be paid off this year and only has 20,000 miles on it. I didn't really want it when I bought it though, and consequently have never liked it.

akangl

With the higher gas prices looming in the future, why would you want a vehicle that requires premium & has less than stellar mpg's? I'm sure there are other SUV's that cost less, use regular & have better mpg's. Personally, I'd keep what ya got now & fix up the Exploder, give your son the Civic& let hubby look for a more reasonably priced vehicle.

The Explorer has been gone for nearly 3 months, in its place is a 1995 Ford F-250 7.5L V8. Being that the truck loves gas stations more then anything else, its only purpose is hauling stuff and towing when we need it. We have gone almost 4 months now with just the Civic. Picture cramming a 6' tall 16 year old in the back seat, lol, a 2-dr car isn't meant to be a family vehicle.

We don't own a house, we sold ours 2 years ago when we moved, since we are only here until our daughter graduates (3 years away) we didn't see the point in buying a house. At the time we moved the market up here was way too shakey and now we are close to leaving state so buying here makes no sense.

This summer we are going to buy the kid a cheap car to get around with, then we'll decide from there what we are doing with the Civic. Hubby wants to get at least one more year of commuting with it before he replaces it with another car.

I don't drive much so gas mileage isn't a huge concern, I mean I'd prefer 30 mpg, but I don't want an econobox. I use 1-2 tanks of gas a month, a little more in the summer if we take some trips. I doubt I even come close to the national average of 15k/year.

roadburner

why would you want a vehicle that requires premium

The issue of whether a car requires premium fuel has never been a concern when I start car shopping. Lets assume that the price difference between regular and premium is 25 cents. If you own a car that gets 25 mpg and you drive it 15,000 miles annually the price differential works out to the huge sum of -I hope you are sitting down- $150 per year :surprise:
That's a whopping $12.50 per month.
Big deal...

akangl

I've been driving my Civic for 4 + years now and it's a great car...good looking & cheap to keep. Not my dream car, that'll come at some later date. But it's never let me down, not once. You really could do worse!!!

Our Civic is a great car, has never had an issue, has faithfully made the 275 mile trek through the mountains twice a week for over 2 years and 66k miles.

It does great in the summer, very little to complain about except it is a tiring car to drive for 4 1/2 hrs straight. Winter, it does ok on slick roads with snow tires, but if it snows in the mountains then it gets rough. Anything over 3-4" and hubby fights the car, it wears him out, he really wants something 4WD or AWD.

He knows what car he wants, he just waiting for the new design to come out, he's hoping by fall he can replace his faithful little Civic with something a bit bigger, safer, and with AWD and stability control.

jpp75

I always like how you describe the Civic, it's great for what it is. My friend out in Oregon has one and would describe it the same way. He has a 2006, 135k miles on it, I drove it last fall when I was out there and was impressed with how solid it was after 4 years and that many miles, plus one thing I really liked was it didn't have much of the 4 cylinder vibration I expected. My parents 4-banger Camry is much worse in that respect. All in all I'm a fan of the Civic, granted the current design needs some enhancing (stability control, etc.) but the overall vehicle I've always liked for its price point.

isellhondas

By passing on that Audi especially an S4 you dodged a nuclear bomb.

Few cars that I can think of are more trouble and how many shops in your neck of the woods can work on it?

Nice cars when they are working as they should if that's possible.

gogiboy

-I hope you are sitting down- $150 per year
That's a whopping $12.50 per month.
Big deal...

RB--

True, $150 isn't that significant to many, but if you took that $150 savings and put $150 in every year and, say, started at 25 and continued putting it in until 65, at a meager 5% interest you'd have roughly $21K, which is a brand new car in my universe.

A large number of premium fuel (high performance) vehicles get much less than 25mpg, too, so the differential would likely be higher . That $21K could pay some lucky grandchild's first year at a state university--and more at a community college. I know someone who has done just that for three grandchildren.

Gogiboy

akangl

By passing on that Audi especially an S4 you dodged a nuclear bomb.

Few cars that I can think of are more trouble and how many shops in your neck of the woods can work on it?

Nice cars when they are working as they should if that's possible.

I knew that, but its such a beautiful car, was a tough bomb to pass up. My Honda/Acura salesguy just laughed, he said they cringe when an Audi comes in, beautiful cars, but yeah, not so reliable.

Hubby was eyeing an A4 pretty hard, but wants Honda reliability which is what he's gotten used to. He wanted a 2-dr Accord, but after sitting in one, there is no where near enough leg room, seemed less then the Civic. So, he looked at a different car that fit him much better and is AWD. Just going to have to wait a bit longer until we can scrape up the $$$ to buy it.

isellhondas

Yes, they are nice looking.

Thought of you today when an A4 passed me going over a double yellow line to do so.

akangl

Thought of you today when an A4 passed

LOL, that's funny. I think I'll be perfectly happy with a reliable MDX and I'll get over my S4 fantasy.

Sandman6472

I was going to do the math thing for him but decided it just wasn't worth the effort. Some folks don't mind paying the extra $ for their driving pleasure. Like you, I'd rather keep the extra cash & invest it for the future. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

roadburner

True, $150 isn't that significant to many, but if you took that $150 savings and put $150 in every year and, say, started at 25 and continued putting it in until 65, at a meager 5% interest you'd have roughly $21K, which is a brand new car in my universe.

I'm sorry, but I still don't think it's a big deal in the grand scheme of things; there are plenty of other ways I can save even more money then $12.50/month- and that won't have an effect on my driving enjoyment- such as foregoing two or three fast food dinners.

fintail

Indeed, I know many people who spend more than that on fancy coffee - each week.

roadburner

In my area the price difference between regular and premium is only 20 cents, so the added expense for me is $10/month. Of course now I can't sleep knowing that my selfish automotive tastes are depriving my future grandchildren of a college education...

jimbres

True, $150 isn't that significant to many, but if you took that $150 savings and put $150 in every year and, say, started at 25 and continued putting it in until 65, at a meager 5% interest you'd have roughly $21K, which is a brand new car in my universe.

Why stop there? Instead of buying new (or lightly used) cars, save money by buying beaters. Resolve never to spend more than $2K on your wheels.

Better yet, take the bus - if you have bus service where you live. You'll save way more than $150 per year.

I'm with RB on this. Unless you drive an insane number of miles per year, your fuel outlays probably represent a small percentage of your total household expenses. In my case, gasoline expense amounts to less than 2% of my family budget - and that's with 3 cars, only 1 of which uses regular. If I could run all 3 cars on regular, I'd probably save 3% of that less than 2%. That's not even a rounding error.

If you're serious about saving money on your cars, I'd suggest (1) keeping your vehicles longer, since new car depreciation is probably the biggest single expense associated with car ownership, (2) paying cash when you do buy, thereby eliminating interest expense & (3) shopping carefully for car insurance. You might find that you spend more money on insurance than you do on fuel.

andre1969

sometimes I'll gripe about having to put premium in my Park Ave, but I just did the math. The car has gone about 11,000 miles so far, and has averaged about 21.5 mpg. Around here, the price spread between regular and premium is usually around 30 cents. So I figure I've blown a whopping $153 so far because of the premium.

I've had the car about 13 months now, so that premium fuel is bankrupting me to the tune of around $11.80 per month.

And yeah, maybe that $153 per year, put away tax deferred and earning 5%, might grow to $21K or so in 40 years. But what's $21K gonna buy you in 40 years? 40 years ago, $21K would've gotten you a modest house around these parts (My old 3br/2ba condo with a 1 car garage originally sold for around $16K in 1974) and probably a new Impala for the driveway. Today, $21K will get you a nice Civic. 40 years from now, it might get you a case of beer.

Now, I'm not saying DON'T save, be foolish with your money, etc. And heck, I know cheap...sometimes I can squeeze a nickel till the buffalo poops. But, you have to enjoy life along the way. And that's not gonna happen if all you do is hoard money.

stever

I think part of it is that there are lots of fun cars out there tooling around nicely on regular. So sometimes there doesn't seem to be any premium benefit from using premium.

But if I had a Vette or MINI or Miata, I'd stick premium in there.

kyfdx

I try to pick a car that I want... Then, do the financial work, to see if it makes sense for me.... If that car happens to use premium, then I just discount the expected MPG by 10%, and see if it still works for me (along with insurance rates, expected maintenance/repair, etc..).

I find that most cars that I desire use premium... to use that as a disqualifier, without considering the entire operating cost would be shortsighted.

It is amazing how people get worked up over premium, yet pass up similar vehicles that get 20% better fuel mileage while doing so..

regards,
kyfdx

steine13

In Germany, the difference between Normal and Super is something like 2 cents per liter... when the liter costs 1.40 euro or so.

It's really amazing how different the price structure is. FWIW, the Aral chain of gas stations has stopped selling regular entirely... the price is the same, and so is the juice.

I really have to wonder where that 20 cents per gallon price difference comes from, other than marketing.

Cheers -Mathias

isellhondas

It's called "profit".

If the truth be known it probably doesn't cost the oil companies much more if any to produce premimum over regular.

The real rip off is diesel. It should sell for half the price of gasoline.

Supply and demand at work as usual.

corvette

Yes, diesel used to be the same price or cheaper than gasoline, and now it's always higher. Usually high enough to make the added MPG from a diesel car almost a wash.

steine13

There is an added dynamic with Diesel: Think back to the months after hurricane Katrina, when there was low refinery capacity.

Europe experienced a Diesel shortage. You'll recall how in the US, Diesel was a dollar or so more than gasoline... everything went up, but Diesel much more than gasoline. The reason was that Diesel was in shorter supply than regular, thanks to the popularity of Diesel engines in Europe.

I kinda lost my fascination with "heating-oil Ferraris" around that time.

Cheers -Mathias

roadburner

I think part of it is that there are lots of fun cars out there tooling around nicely on regular. So sometimes there doesn't seem to be any premium benefit from using premium.

Sure, all things being equal a car that uses regular would be a better choice, but in my case every car I would consider owning takes premium. Well, my 318ti didn't, but it does now since I installed a Turner/Conforti chip- I suppose now my son's college education is in jeopardy... Speaking of which, Ford Racing now sells a performance kit which recalibrates the 2011 5.0 Coyote V8 to use premium fuel. If I was buying a new GT I'd have to get one.

isellhondas

That the people who constantly burn through cars waste a ton of money. I know, I used to be one of those people. There was always a "reason" I needed a different car and the reasons were rarely valid.

In the car business, I watched people do this to themselves all of the time.

It's boring but the best strategy is to buy a two year old car and drive it into the ground.

When I saw people signing up for 72 month payments, it told me one thing.." they can't afford this car" yet they did that all of the time.

stever

Good thing for me a fun car is an econohatch or minivan. With my driving skills, a performance car would be a waste sitting in my driveway. I'd rather be mindlessly cruising on a roadtrip than choosing a line through the curves.

Part of it is that some of us just enjoy being cheap too.

roadburner

I'd rather be mindlessly cruising on a roadtrip than choosing a line through the curves.

My weakness was that I became addicted to HPDEs- at least I don't have to pay very much for track time these days.

ronsteve

True, $150 isn't that significant to many, but if you took that $150 savings and put $150 in every year and, say, started at 25 and continued putting it in until 65, at a meager 5% interest you'd have roughly $21K, which is a brand new car in my universe.

A meager 5% interest? The way interest rates have been the last several years, one needs to be investing (i.e. taking some risk) to get 5% return.

I'm not going to nickel-and-dime everything... after all, ya can't take it with ya.

jayrider

Can't find 5% anywhere.

gogiboy

"A meager 5% interest? The way interest rates have been the last several years, one needs to be investing (i.e. taking some risk) to get 5% return."

True, but it wasn't that hard to get 5% (and better) in 2010, even with a fairly conservative mix of stocks and bonds. I picked 5%, because for something like 30 years you could earn 4% on your basic savings account.

I threw out the education example, not because I thought roadburner was going to deprive his son, but rather to show that $150/year can certainly be used for other purposes, while not giving up driving pleasure--as was stated more eloquently in other posts. I would also point out that most of the folks I know who own one premium car also own another and sometimes even three or four--it's apparently addictive. While $150/year is a threshold that wouldn't impact many. $600/year might. I do realize that many--if not most-- car owners whose cars use premium fuel are earning a substantial enough income that the difference does not matter to them.

However, as someone who teaches in higher education I can cite plenty of examples of students who aren't able to afford necessary school supplies, but drive a late model car that requires premium fuel. It's not just the gas for the car that's pinching the student and their parents, but, rather, the other costs often associated with premium gas cars: higher insurance, more expensive parts and maintenance. etc. These are the individuals at whom my example was directed.

Gogiboy

jimbres

While shopping for a new car, I might use fuel requirement as a tie-breaker if I couldn't otherwise decide between 2 equally appealing candidates. But I wouldn't begin the shopping process by refusing to consider any car that used premium fuel. I simply don't put on enough miles for fuel expense to matter.

corvette

Yup... Speaking of which, I'll have had my Altima a full year as of the 15th of this month. I'm going to be labeled a heretic for saying this in this group, but I like it better now than I did when I brought it home!

I'm not a big fan of aftermarket accessories, but since it's paid for and I'm planning to keep it a while, I may add an iPod interface and a little extra sound deadener.

Sandman6472

Agree with you on this and again, I would like to add the exact accessories to my '06 Civic. Would there things be expensive and thinking of going back to the place that upgraded my stereo system...I kept the existing Honda stock radio. Gotta a feeling the Honda store would be more expensive than my guy. I do have a load of homemade cd's which I've burned over the last few years, but I really like listening to my ipod. Will go check this out tomorrow...my kids wanted to get me this for Hannukah but I told them to save their $.

Thinking about when I buy my next ride, since I'll have to have a power seat & most cars with them in the Civic size tend to need premium, I might have to just bite the bullet on this. But since my miles per year have dropped down considerably, might make sense for me then.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

hondai

I hate car payments so I've kept a 1996 Grand Cherokee around since it was bought in 1997, and 2002 Hyundai Accent bought in 2003 and a 1994 Infiniti J30 which SUCKS in the snow but is a nice ride otherwise...all three would be classified as beaters but I don't care. When I feel the need for real speed (at least when the temperature is above 45 degree, I just hop on a 2003 Honda Blackbird). Repairs are here and there but haven't had to make a car payment in more than 10 years -- just try to pay cash for the rides and invest the monthly $200-400 for myself and the wife.

steine13

My name is Mathias and I'm a charter member of CCBA.
(Hi Mathias)

I bought my 36th and most recent car in September of '07.
I've been clean ever since.
But I still hang out here from time to time so there's hope.

Anybody know of a clean, rust-free fullsize van for sale?
I want to go camping this summer and could easily fall of the wagon.

What kind of support group is this anyway?

Cheers -Mathias

mark156

Back in summer of '08, I spent $700 to fill the motorhome when it wasn't empty (150 gallon tank)... I enjoy the 28 mpg of the Honda CR-V (highway).

I disagree with Isellhondas on buying a 2 yrs old car and drive into the ground.... If I were to do that, I would buy the cars brand new and drive them into the ground. My Uncle has done this for over 60 yrs.... all new cars, only 6 cars since 1949...... currently, a 2002 Impala. All paid with cash and driven into the ground.

I understand people doing that, I am fortunate enough financially that I can do a little better. Cars are my weakness...... I like power, prestige and style. Hence, the Bentley and the string of Mercedes automobiles and Land Rovers. I can be cheap when needed, been there and done that. When I get old, I'll buy the pearl white Town Car and call it a day.

Mark156 :surprise:

akangl

I agree this can make sense at times. Like with us, we needed a truck, but a truck really doesn't make sense as a daily driver. I found a nice 15 year old Ford with a huge V8 and got it cheap. I love the fact it has the huge V8, not because I like filling it up....that's a 20-30 minute ordeal due to problems with the tanks, but because it could be had cheap, NOBODY wants a 460 these days. It gets driven 200-300 miles/month, sometimes more, most times less. Sad thing is 300 miles sucks down all 35 gallons of gas that the 2 tanks hold.

A used car for hubby doesn't make sense, to buy something with 30k on it just means it has to be replaced a year sooner. His Civic was purchased in October 2008 and currently has 67k on it. His commute is through some of the most isolated areas in Alaska, a breakdown there could be deadly. Not saying new cars are perfect, but a breakdown is less likely. He tells me all the time that he usually sees only 2-3 vehicles on his entire 250 mile commute to work and most areas he goes through do not have cell service. Winter can see temps in the -50 range as well.

Now a used car for me could make sense.....but not this time, I want new and I plan to keep it. :P

andre1969

Yup... Speaking of which, I'll have had my Altima a full year as of the 15th of this month. I'm going to be labeled a heretic for saying this in this group, but I like it better now than I did when I brought it home!

Cool...glad to hear that Altima's been treating you well. How many miles do you have on it now?

Lotta car for the money, too. Here's one listed at www.fitzmall.com more or less how I'd want it equipped, for only $19,904, including freight. That's actually about what my Intrepid cost, ELEVEN years ago! And my Intrepid didn't have alloys, a power seat, sunroof, ABS, dual zone a/c, etc, and probably didn't have as good of a sound system. I'd try to go for a color other than black though. I like that reddish metallic color they have, "Tuscan Sun", I think they call it?

corvette

Mine doesn't have either of the convenience packages--I wouldn't mind having a sunroof and illuminated visor mirrors, but those are things I'm willing to live without. I've got a little over 43,000 miles. The red metallic color is very attractive, I wouldn't want black either.

How's the Park Avenue? Have you tried changing the foul-smelling supercharger oil yet?

jayrider

Andre -- you can get a net Ford Focus sel for around 16k. Nice compact.

guss

Anybody know of a clean, rust-free fullsize van for sale?
I want to go camping this summer and could easily fall of the wagon.


I thought you went that route a few years ago?

Not that I am beyond repeating myself. I may be the only person in America to own both versions of the new Malibus.

nippononly

but not this time, I want new and I plan to keep it.

I always plan to keep them but somehow nothing ever stays longer than five years! I am committed to keeping the Soob ten years, but my history suggests I probably won't....

....and speaking of the Soob, it will be two years old on May 2nd, and it is the most recent car I bought so I guess I am letting my membership lapse too. What is happening to me? 2010 was the first year of the decade I didn't buy a car, either new or used.
But I do very much like the Subaru, so maybe that's the problem (!!)

roadburner

I had a local shop throw some OEM shocks on the rear of the Mazdaspeed; it's the first car I've owned since 1974 that needed new shocks prior to 100,000 miles. Of course now our area is getting hit with several inches of snow so my plans to unload it are on hold... :mad:

fezo

Cool...glad to hear that Altima's been treating you well. How many miles do you have on it now?

Lotta car for the money, too. Here's one listed at www.fitzmall.com more or less how I'd want it equipped, for only $19,904, including freight.

Oh, swell. Thanks a lot! I'm doing my best to hold steady and you start showing me things like that...... :P

At least if I bought from fitzmall I could drop in afterward....

akangl

I always plan to keep them but somehow nothing ever stays longer than five years! I am committed to keeping the Soob ten years, but my history suggests I probably won't....

I had the Pilot for a little over 3 years......38 months to be exact. If I hadn't had a lapse in judgement and sold it, I would still be driving it. Instead I'm going on 4 months with no car, still waiting for my MDX to get here. Salesguy says sometime in the next 4-5 weeks..... :sick: