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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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Comments

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    The RAV4 seems very intersting. I want to see how they did the 7 passenger in it cause I just feel like it must be a joke.

    And depending on how much it weighs I think it is out gunning everything in its class by 30 or 40 horsepower so that whould be intersting too.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    There were 3 RAV4s at the auto show. I think it's telling that none of them had the optional third row seat. It sure didn't look like there was much room for one.

    Interesting that a fully loaded V6 model goes for close to $30k...

    I still think that the 2WD model should be called the RAV2.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    at the auto show, with the 3rd seat. It truly was a joke. Now honestly, most 3rd seats are for me, as I'm 6'3".

    It's also really not wide enough inside to have 3 across in the back seat (middle row) so don't think for a minute that you and 6 of your adult buddies are going to cruising together out to the big game or anything.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    97 RAV4 back in December 96. It was a 2 door 2WD model with 5-speed manual transmission. It was as loaded as you could get for that model with a MSRP of $21,000. Alloys, AC, power windows, power locks, cruise control, dual moonroofs. Didn't have keyless though. Which is interesting considering all but very basic cars now have keyless. We had absolutely no problems out of it ever in the 39 months and 45,000 miles we had it.

    The loaded RAV4 isn't a very good value but most high-end versions of lower-end cars aren't. I will be the first to admit a $16,000 LX Civic is a better value than a $21,000 EX NAV model.
  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Those third-row seats in midsize SUVs are kid seats only, just like they were in the old Colt Vista wagon.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    the only 3rd row SUV seat I've ever sat in that I found comfy was in the Ford Excursion! To be fair though, most of those old station wagon 3rd row seats were nothing to rave about either. At least, from around 1955 onward...those big old late 40's and early 50's wagons, which were taller, could sometimes pull off a decent third seat, but then those things were more SUV than car anyway!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'll take issue to your comment that the RAV4 outguns everything in its class.

    My wife has an '04 Saturn VUE AWD V6 that has the Honda 3.5L engine stuffed into it .. 250HP and approximately 3600lbs makes for a pretty fast machine. I'm guessing that it would give the RAV4 with the V6 a run for its money.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Go try the third row in a LR3 sometime. It was designed to fit a 95 perentile male which means 6 foot 1 and about 200 lbs or so.

    You would be a little out of the range but I fit fine at 6 feet even and a little over 200 lbs.

    As to the VUE the RAV4 claims to have a 267 hp V6 so that outguns the 250 hp depending on final weight of course. I thought the VUE was using some funny Opel V6. Last time I worked on one it had a silly euro cannister filter in the front of the motor instead of the little tiny spin on filter off to the passenger side like honda V6 models.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    Hmmm, actually looking at the specs the LR3 doesn't seem too bad in the back seat. 36.3" of legroom, 40.1" of headroom.

    I've always theorized that advertisers use pygmies and dwarfes in these types of photo shoots, but the people in this pic don't look too cramped in the back.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    be a big guy thing , cause I always thought the same thing. Get this family where nobody is over 5' tall for the ad and it makes the car look huge.

    Reminds me of the kiddie pool I bought last summer that was 3' deep. On the cover there is a family of 4 all up to their chests in water. Of course Mom & Dad are on their knees.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    with me is that I just like a seating position where I can stretch out. One of my buddies, who drives a '98 Tracker, is almost as tall as me. But he can drive his Tracker fine with the seat moved up a few notches. I've driven it, and would put it back all the way and still wish for more!

    Similarly, he's driven my Intrepid and would always move the seat up a bit. But then I wish it went back a bit further. On longer trips I'll usually drive barefoot, which effectively gives me the extra legroom I need. Guess it's a good thing I'm not a female impersonator, I bet high heels would really be a drag to drive in! :P
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Yeah I wouldn't want to sit back there for a 4 hour trip, mainly because I have wide shoulders and those narrow seats just aren't quiet right for me, but for an hour or so I would be fine back there.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    It was in 2004 that Saturn started to put the 3.5L engine from Honda into the VUE, along with the 5-speed auto tranny. Prior to that, they used the older V6.

    My '03 L300, OTOH, has that "older" 3.0L V6 that was sourced from Europe .. really odd 54 degree configuration .. this is the same engine that was found in the Cadillac Catera. In the Catera, the engine was tuned for 200HP, and in the Saturn it makes only 181HP.

    Still, plenty quick when you put your foot into it.

    I guess my bone of contention with your comment was that the RAV4 had "30 to 40" more HP than anything else .. with the VUE, it's only 17HP. Yeah, I know, nit-picky, but I'll defend my Saturns.

    (even though the L300 needs new brakes, front and rear, which will probably run north of $500)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    the old Saturn commercials for the L-series with the V-6. They showed some roadhog in a Honda Accord out on the desert, who started freaking out when the L overtook him and blew him away. Pretty cool commercial, I think it was actually a bit of a tribute to Spielberg's "Duel". The dude in the Accord even started freaking out when he couldn't shake the Saturn, just like Dennis Weaver did when he couldn't shake that semi.

    What V-6 did later versions of the L-300 use? Or did they use that Opel 3.0 right up until the end of the line?
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Nope, the 3.0L V6 was the only V6 used in the car, up until it was discontinued in 2005.

    Now, the Aura, which is slated to come out later this year, is supposed to have the same 3.6L V6 as the CTS. Not sure if there are plans for a smaller V6 or a 4-cylinder in lower trim levels.

    I vaguely remember the commercial .. when the L came out in 2000, what was the HP rating of the Accord V6? I believe it was 200, which meant that the Saturn was still down on ponies in comparison.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    the Accord's 3.0 had 200 hp, whereas the Saturn's 3.0 had either 192 or 197. I think the L might have been geared more aggressively though. Edmund's did a family car comparison test in 2000, and the Saturn ripped through 0-60 in 7.3 seconds, compared to 7.9 for the Accord. Quarter mile was quicker too.

    Truthfully, even nowadays when you look at road tests, an Accord or Altima V-6/automatic usually comes in around 7.2 seconds. Now someone like C&D or MT might trick it into the mid 6es, but for a "real world" figure, I usually see around 7.2.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    you folks that have seen the new RAV's third row: the smallest third row I have witnessed so far is the one on the Commander - a real joke. The RAV's can't be smaller than that one, surely?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Ah ok I probably never saw one then. I was really cutting back hours at my shop by the end of 2004 and I had completly rolled out of the business by May 2005.

    Saturns are ok low to mid range people movers but that is it just people movers.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    I'm guessing a child that would fit in it is small enough that they still need to be in a booster seat, but the booster seat probably wouldn't fit...

    I think someone that planned to use the extra seating for something other than a coatrack would be better off with a Mazda5, which has a really small--but useable--rear seat. That thing is a really neat hauler.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I'll agree with you on the "people mover" sentiment, but the two Saturns that we've bought new were the easiest buying process I've ever encountered. In addition, I felt that the value of the vehicle being purchased was top-notch, too.

    When the 2003 was bought, I looked at (what else) Accords, Camrys, Altimas and the VW Passat. I was looking for a V6, automatic, ABS, leather and sunroof - everything else was negotiable. The L300 priced out $2000 to $4000 less than anything else I looked at. Add in 0% financing and GM Supplier pricing, and it was an easy sale.

    Two years later, the wife wanted a small SUV. We drove the Santa Fe and Escape in addition to the VUE. Wife really liked the acceleration of the VUE (who wouldn't?) and the plastic panels were a plus, too.

    I know, I know - there are those who disdain the polymer panels because of the extra-wide gaps between them. When the Focus and VUE are parked next to each other in our garage the difference is quite apparent. However, it's nice to know that you won't ever get door dings. And, from what I've seen on older Saturns, they hold up real well over time.

    Anyway, count me as a Saturn fan. I'm not happy about the transition to steel, but I suppose that can't be helped. I'm very excited about the new Saturn products coming out in the future - Sky, Aura, Outlook, new ION (which I think will be a rebadged Opel/Vauxhall Astra).
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    The Aura is hot! I like the styling. The two-tone interior is really nice. I think they will offer a base four-cylinder version in addition to the V6.

    They introduced the Aura concept at the same time they introduced the Sky concept. While everyone was drooling over the Sky, I was wondering what the big fuss was over a badge-engineered Solstice, and I was looking at the Aura instead.
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,786
    If the new Ion was a rebadged Astra, that would be a huge step forward for Saturn. I rented one 2 months ago while in the UK and it was much better than I expected. It competes surprisingly well to the Golf, the European gold standard. And the grunt was respectable from the 1.8 I had. Saturn could be the strongest US lineup GM has if it was a bunch of rebadged Opel/Vauxhalls. It takes more then merely using the platform, GM...

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    Yeah, well...

    As far as "rebadged Opels", the General seems to not have a lucky hand in bringing it off.

    The Cadillac Catera never approached the Opel Omega in driving pleasure or in reliability; the Catera being one of the worst American cars in that regard, while the Omega is a fine vehicle by all accounts.

    Then there is the Saturn L series, which is not a big success either; a good friend has a 2003 he inherited from his Dad; the stupid thing has 20k or so on it and has already caused more trouble than his 100k '99 Solara. Electrical problems, doors locking on their own and only unlocking after many tries; transmission hunts on level ground while pulling a trailer; 26 mpg on the freeway, and that was the high-water-mark; power windows that will absolutely, positively, open the fifth or eight time the button is pushed... that sort of thing.

    But Ford can't do it either; the Focus was a sad hash until 2003, by which time the reputation of this fine car was completely trashed... and the Contour/Mondeo was no success either this side of the ocean.

    -Mathias
  • tifightertifighter Member Posts: 3,786
    Catera; good point. Weird one as that one was assembled in Germany.

    The others are good examples of subpar assembly, sub-contractors and execution rather than poor design. The Focus and Mondeo have very good reliability records in Europe from their launch year, but obviously not so much here. I guess when I think re-badged, I think RE-badged, not re-designed, re-formatted, re-spec'd and built here with re-sourced components. You will not find an Opel on the German market that you'd mistake for a Saturn L; seems more like a platform share then a rebadge.

    Plus, the Ion hasn't been exactly a home run.

    Last, can you imagine Mr. Goodwrench's face whenever he opens a hood and sees, argh, a OHC V6? The humanity...I'd guess that these car's faults, Catera included, have been done no favors by their local service departments. You'd have to be a pretty rangy mechanic to go from a DeVille with whitewalls to an Escalade with 'dubs' to the German 'Caddy that zigs' on a given day... :P

    25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd

  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    The usual disclaimers apply, but Hyundai and Kia didn't make the "10 least reliable" list this year. Infiniti, Saturn, and Lincoln did, but Mercury was one of the "10 best."
  • bigkahunaukbigkahunauk Member Posts: 1
    OK, I finally got back to the start of this great discussion! Its lost its way a little towards the end but this may bring it back on track... or I might be regarded as an British Nut. To me a top motor is one that cost less than a Tank of Fuel and lasts forever with little or no maintance!

    I have a Problem, Honestly I do! I was Brought up in VA. and at 13 I had no interest in reading, well to be fair I couldn't (Dyslexic), so my parents in desperation bought me a Copy of the Auto Trader! I read it Cover to Cover, my mother had to look up what Posi-Trac was! and I was so interested I asked for next weeks copy. I have been in trouble ever since I started saving my pocket money.... I have cars, trucks, boats, RV's and Assorted Machinery stashed all over the UK and Some Parts of Europe, Thats the Problems with traveling with your job!

    Anyway I have a small selection of them that are interesting on my Carspace.com camp. I'm always buying and selling, its an addiction, I dont care what anyone says and I cant give it up! The places like Ebay and Autotrader.com just make it so much easier now to browse and choose the next target.... With any hard core Car Nut, Distance is No object! I will travel to the end of the world (feels like I do sometimes) I there is a cheap car or anything with an engine with various faults! That £50.00 BMW or a £200.00 Merc SEL or a Combine Harvester with a Blown Engine!

    As with any nut, I do have a Core batch of cars but they are always being revised, modified and improved. for Example, the Citroen 2CV 'Sam' Has now got locking doors! First time in 4 Years I can lock the Doors!

    So anyone else got the bug?
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Well, after much discussion and thought I'm headed back to Alaska. My Titan is pulling a 2-horse trailer back (was cheaper than renting a uhaul) and its heavy! Poor truck will turn 42,000 miles today.

    Somehow I think she will be with me for a long time, we've been through a lot together, this is her second trip across the US and Canada. She will make another trip in June when we go on vacation for a month. I figure I'll be completely out of warranty (60k powertrain) by the end of the summer.

    I never realized how much I loved Alaska, Texas was nice but Alaska is where I want to be.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    Now that spring is right around the corner. :)

    Hang onto the Tiatan, you got all the bugs worked out and they are really nice trucks.
  • ubbermotorubbermotor Member Posts: 307
    No kidding there. A friend of mine is driving some 400 miles to check out a Parts car. A 2 door '64 Imperial.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    Engaging in some groupthink here... Think it's safe to take the snow tires off?
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    Engaging in some groupthink here... Think it's safe to take the snow tires off?

    I see from your profile you're from Kentucky, so I'd say "yeah". Being from Michigan myself, the removal of the snow tires is normally an April Fools' activity. :)
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    I think that depends on the vehicle - and how good your summer tires are.

    On your 3-series or Canyon, I'd say "definitely not yet".
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    for the last time back in 1995, and have never used snows since then. But then, our winters usually aren't that bad...usually an all-season radial can get you through okay.
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    They're great in the dry, okay in the rain, and terrible in the snow...

    The Canyon has the factory General all-seasons, which are bad in the dry, terrible in the rain, and after seeing it in the rain, I'm too scared to drive it in the snow.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,358
    No, not to buy (can't afford the divorce lawyer), but that long before stopping in at a car dealer!

    Oops, just remembered I stopped at the Volvo dealer last month for some reason, so I didn't do as good as I thought..

    Anyway, I wanted to check out a Caliber, so i stopped at the Dodge dealer at lunch. I also happened to be the only customer for the ~10 minutes I was there as best as I can tell.

    On a side note, tell the salespeople to move the smokers lounge away from the main door lobby. Some people don't like getting gassed out, and they won't miss any ups if they stand 10 feet away.

    I actually liked the Caliber. I think they will have a winner if the driving dynamics (and quality) are there. Nice looking interior, very roomy, great flexibility, tons of neat little features, all at an attractive price.

    I was amazed at how roomy the back seat was. I sat behind myself, and had inches of kneeroom to spare, enough headroom to where a cowboy hat, and even tons of footroom under the front seat (the seats are elevated off the floor, almost like a minivan).

    You might not like the shape/styling (I do), but it really leads to a very functional interior.

    They also put other makers to shame with some of the goodies. 115v outlet, aux plug on the headunit face, flip up holder for a cell phone or ipod, the chiller box, etc.

    Anyway, it could give the Mazda3 a run for it's money if it drives right, and other than that, there really isn't anything quite like it on the market (I guess the Matrix/Vibe somewhat). I expect it to do well.

    Not as nice an interior as the Accord though!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    These forums are NOT the place to hash out personal disputes. I've removed a series of posts that simply were off-topic and really had no business being here.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    Nice review of the Caliber.

    Someone in my office has been waiting for it to come out. I told him that I would check it out at the Philly Autoshow. I could not believe they only one they had available was behind ropes. I ended up asking the model if she could sit in it in different positions(clean up your thoughts, it was not like that)so that I could see the head and leg room in the front in back. I thought it looked pretty roomy.

    So my co-worker tried it it out on Saturday and did not like the driving position. He's one of these guys with a bad back and needs the seat at a 90 degree angle. He did not even test drive it after waiting 6 months for it.

    Fwiw I liked it but thought it looked to much like the Malibu Maxx.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,358
    I sat in it briefly, but did not bother to play around with the seat, other than to ratchet it down a bit. But, having back issues myself, I am real sensitive to how the seat supports it.

    I don't think it looks that much like the Maxx. Much shorter, and different proportions. You really need to see it up close to form an opinion, but I think it looks neat.

    one likely problem (sommon with this body style) is the blind spots off the c pillar, but I would have to drive it to know for sure.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,814
    I generally make this decision the scientific way: When is the next day that I have off work? (Note: This may not work for law students).

    So.. anyway, my choices are March 17th or March 31st.

    Since I can remember once sitting in Riverfront Stadium on Opening Day, in the snow... wearing a parka.. I think I'll wait till the 31st..

    The summer tires on the Sport Package are awfully squirrely when the temperature gets down to freezing.. I wouldn't be in a hurry.. If you were putting all-seasons on, it wouldn't be a big deal...

    regards,
    kyfdx
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  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Oh, come'on! I missed it all! At least provide a synopsis......now I gotta sit around waiting for the VP to shoot somebody else.....I mean, it's Winter, people are reduced to debating when to take their snow tires off..... :cry:
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    You actually own a 2CV? Wow. I'm not even sure I've actually seen one, except in magazines. Any old Jaguars in your collection? And do you ever read Peter Egan's columns in R&T?

    BTW, I got 3 magazines when I was 14--R&T, Playboy, & some audio rag.......it's been downhill ever since......
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    At least provide a synopsis......

    Bauer's daughter showed up at CTU. The Russians got a hold of McGill's key card and were able to plant a container of Syntox in the ventillation system... Oh, wait, that was last night's episode of "24." ;)
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Why not do what I do? I put my brand new Dunlop Winter Sports in my trunk every November, & then drive around for 6 months with the snow tires in my trunk because I'm too lazy to go to Costco & expend 2 hours getting them mounted. (And yes, I do have another set of rims, but the tires aren't on the rims yet).

    I admit, my plan does have a couple of minor drawbacks.....altho it's way easier to take the snows off (out of the trunk) come Spring.....
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    Is that a wagon? I can only fit two in the trunk, and two in the back seat, and have to move the front passenger seat forward to do that.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    With RWD at least that extra weight is doing you some good.

    I have never bought snow tires for any of my cars. My thinking is that as soon as I buy winter tires it will never snow again.I don't want to be the one responsible for global warming.

    Actually, I am just to cheap (and lazy) to drop 5 or 6 hundred bucks for the two or three bad snow storms we have each winter.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,814
    I drop the other tires/wheels off at the tire shop the day before... with the CR-V..

    With the convertible, I'd have to put the top down, just to get one tire in.. ;)

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  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    I've had a couple of RWD cars in the past (albeit heavy ones), live in Chicago and have never bought snow tires, not only because I'm cheap and lazy, but I have nowhere to store extra tires at this point. The combination of tire technology and our recent very mild winters makes them seem a waste. Plus, driving is no big deal with the terrain flat, the city plowing (or at least salting) everything but alleys and speeds generally below 40mph.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    :D Funny. My dad has a Colorado and my Uncle has a Canyon both are looking forward for better tires. ;)

    Rocky
  • corvettecorvette Member Posts: 11,292
    That could take a while. The Canyon's tires are showing little wear after 20,000 miles.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well my pops and uncle drive over 100 miles round trip back n' forth to work, so it won't take to long. ;)

    Rocky
This discussion has been closed.