Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

kyfdx

Believe it or not.... the RDX has almost the same outside dimensions as the XC60 and the Q5... It sure looks smaller on the outside, and the hatch slopes more, so hauling capacity is less, but not really any smaller.

The Tiguan is 8" shorter and 2" narrower.... but, we like small cars... so, it would work.. Plenty of room for four passengers.

The RAV4 was just cheap... cheap materials and just an overall cheap feel... I was surprised.. always been somewhat impressed with fit and finish on Camrys, but I guess the RAV4 is really a Corolla in SUV clothing..

The only car that I drove was the Volvo.. Nice, but nothing that would make me throw it around an interstate ramp like the X3... My wife's favorite.. Beside the visibility and the room, she liked the looks, the power tailgate, the power folding rear headrests (big help to rear visibility) and the cargo capacity (it just looks bigger, inside).

Something tells me I better start saving my pennies...

kyfdx

I owned two CR-Vs, though I haven't driven the latest generation..

Surprisingly, the RDX is a big step up in fit, finish, solidity (is that a word?) and driving experience... I was pleasantly surprised by all that. What we didn't like? Dark interior, blah looks, X3-like ride (stiff) and the worst EPA ratings of any car we drove...

And, while I agree that the RDX hasn't been a hit, I think that is more due to marketing dollars and availability... They just don't have any to sell.. And, like most Honda products, slightly used ones don't seem to be that great of a deal. Around here, 2008 models are $26K asking... Only $35,800 for a brand new one if you pay sticker..

Either way, that's pretty far down her list...

And, about saving pennies? We are going to look at another 325iS, this weekend... and, so it goes..

corvette

Have you given thought to buying your X3 (or a similar used one)?

kyfdx

I've thought about it... It's hard to keep driving the same model when they've come out with a better (newer) one....

The one we have now... my wife doesn't mind it so much, but the transmission software is just plain goofy and the brake pedal is touchy.. I'll be glad to be rid of it... Plus, I could make a better deal on an identical one from the dealership than I can on this one.

Or, could get a 2010 with even more options than our '08 for about $37K... but, that's still the old model.. The 2011 didn't come out until December, so hardly any used ones available, and they didn't churn them out like they did the old one, so no service loaners, demos, etc... available.. At least not for a decent price..

It's just not a good time to buy or lease a small, luxury SUV.. If I had any brains, I'd just get her a good deal on a 2-seater! :surprise:

I have time, though... six weeks until the lease is up, and if we buy that 325iS, this weekend... she can drive my son's '92 Legend for another month, if it comes to that.... so, maybe I've got until December to find something...

corvette

I was in a similar situation when the lease on my 2007 A4 ended. *Nothing* was leasing at a decent price at the time, not even a base model Accord, and the residual on the A4 was inflated above what it was worth (mine had lower than average miles during the lease, but it also had some cosmetic paintwork, which probably more than cancels that out).

How often do you drive it and notice the gripes you have about it? I'd consider buying an identical one, if it's her car and she doesn't mind the things that bug you about it. I understand her dislike of the RAV4/RAV6, it's pretty dated, but I bet it's a rocket with the V6.

ateixeira

Just curious, but what do each of those lease for, roughly?

$40k does seem a bit steep for what are essentially compacts.

andres3

The RAV4 was just cheap... cheap materials and just an overall cheap feel... I was surprised.. always been somewhat impressed with fit and finish on Camrys, but I guess the RAV4 is really a Corolla in SUV clothing..

I looked very carefully and closely at the RAV4 in 2006 when I got my Audi A3 instead. I test drove various models of the RAV4. I reached the same conclusion as you. It was cheap inside, like a Corolla SUV (previous Camry's had nicer interiors than recent model ones). It does have the best powertrain in class by far with the V6 5 speed auto combo in either Sport or Limited trim it's nice, except for interior. In 2011 that powertrain combo is still competitive with the best out there, in 2006 there was no competitor.

The biggest problem was, for a cheap SUV, with a Corolla-like interior, you didn't get a Corolla like price!!! The price was way too high (loaded and with Limited trim), it was actually just about the same exact price as my 2006 Audi A3. That was an easy choice for me. I'm not paying the same for a Toyota as a legit luxury/sport Audi. Unfortunately, Audi's prices have gone up faster than Toyota's since 2006; so they aren't quite the bargain they used to be.

That Q5 is very nice, but pricey!

ateixeira

Funny thing is I was going to suggest an A3 as an alternative...

kyfdx

Might be able to lease an XC60 for low $600s... (maybe $650)..

X3 and Q5 are in the $700 range...

Tiguan and RDX are probably $550 or so...

That's for 36mo/36K, nothing upfront but first payment... and, with 6% tax..

For comparison, our current lease is $467 (tax inclusive), with same parameters, but 15K per year on miles...

None of those vehicles are worth that for a lease..

My wife can't stand hatchbacks or wagons (or minivans)... She would be more likely to go for a 3-series, G37 or A4 sedan... Which aren't cheap, either..

ateixeira

*gulp* Yikes!

I'd keep looking, too. There's gotta be better values out there that are still nice.

For $40 grand...blind fold her and put her in a Genesis sedan 3.8l, 333hp DI engine with 29mpg. Just make sure it has the premium package - that's real cowhide on the dash.

Unlike those it feels like it's worth more than the asking price. Fitzmall.com has one for under $35k, and that's with Nav w/traffic, leather seats/dash, moonroof, power sunshades, 18"s, etc.

Of course Hyundais may not lease well given the low residuals. May be worth a look, though. It's not a sporty option but the wife might like it.

kyfdx

You can lease a Genesis for under $500...

But, she likes small SUVs, small sedans, etc... We don't buy them by the pound.... Once you let em off the farm, it's hard to get them back out of the city (paraphrased from Honky Cat, Elton John)..

If we are going for value, might be able to do a 24 month lease on a Mercedes Bluetec E-Class for under $600....

Or, a service-loaner Z4 for under $350... :surprise:

I'm guessing we might just pony up and buy the Volvo or Q5..

Did I mention that we are going to look at another E30 325iS, this weekend?

kyfdx

... I'd love to put her in a Countryman, without her knowing what it was.... I'm guessing she would like it... but, that isn't in the cards (About $36K, loaded up with AWD).

fintail

I'd suspect to the average highline smaller SUV shopper, the swoopy H is like a biohazard symbol :shades: ...I think brand cachet is playing some kind of role here.

I am seeing 09 Genesis in free car rags already down into the low-mid 20s, and these look well equipped. Gonna be a hell of a used car deal soon.

michaellno

Given how .... um, how to say this .. particular your wife is in her automotive wishes, it seems to me that you'll end up paying the $550-650 per month to get what she wants.

RAV4 .. out. I don't see her liking the Genesis, blindfold or not. Most of the "proletariat" brands are probably a no-go, either. Heck, you can option an Equinox or Terrain to exceed $35K now - any chance you can get her to take a look at either of those?

kyfdx

She has been driving a BMW for 8 years...

And, even though I make most of the car decisions, she does make most of the money...

I've pointed out the Genesis to her... she likes the way it looks.. just not interested...

fintail

If it's her money, you should have her do the work and have her take the step of choosing her car. Then you can spend time on your own car. Sometimes it makes me endlessly happy to be single, I do what I want :P

kyfdx

You have it pegged pretty well..

Have a neighbor with an Equinox.... she doesn't hate it, but no desire to drive one..

The Equinox forums will scare you off one, as well...

The Cadillac version could probably make the cut, but again... over $500 for a lease..

kyfdx

Well.... she did visit 8 dealerships with me this weekend, and drove 5 different vehicles....

So.. she is putting out the effort... considering the last car I purchased didn't work for her, it's appreciated...

Plus, I consider car shopping as entertainment.... :P

ateixeira

the swoopy H is like a biohazard symbol

Hence the blind fold recommendation, in case you missed that.

Cover the badge, show her the seat memory, the power sun shade in the back, touch the leather dash, ....

Then yell HYUNDAI really quick, like ripping off a band-aid. It hurts less that way. :P

isellhondas

Wow...those sound like HUGE lease payments.

Have you considered getting off of the lease treadmill and just buying it this time?

andres3

the swoopy H is like a biohazard symbol ...I think brand cachet is playing some kind of role here.

But as my brother-in-law noticed and pointed out to the salesman when I took him out car shopping (and I didn't tell him nor mention it) the Genesis avoids Hyundai's ugly biohazard swoopy H symbol.

andres3

If you end up buying a lemon, is it you or her that'll end up making a 2nd home at the dealership service area?

fintail

I think it would be a better used buy, but I look for value. And yeah, like andres3 pointed out, the H is (wisely) not displayed on the Genesis, right?

That specific gadgetry doesn't impress me much, my antebellum E55 has it all too :shades:

kyfdx

They are huge lease payments... which is why I wouldn't lease at those prices..

If it comes to that, we'll buy a car... no problem with that...

Sometimes, the lease payments are so low, that it's a poor financial decision to buy the vehicle... It's just an alternative financing method. Not many of those leases around, right now...

isellhondas

Oh, I agree and our 2011 CRV is leased. Ths was before the earthquake hit and the money factors were close to nothing. In three years, it'll have probably 20,000 miles and I'll just write a check.

A lot of the cars you mentioned have poor residuals which equate to high payments. The cars with great resale (high residuals) are often in short supply. Like Hondas are right now!

akangl

Which I feel more sorry for......the little Escort for having to teach another teenager to drive a stick or hubby for having to teach another teenager to drive.

Our daughter has been throwing a fit about having to drive the Escort, so hubby and I decided to trade it in on another cheap car with an automatic. After a bit of car shopping yesterday we decided that the kid is going to have to deal with it and learn to drive a stick. Even cars that were priced at $3k-$5k weren't in as good of condition and they all had oil leaks or body damage.

I guess we got really lucky when we found that little Escort for $1k. It doesn't leak, its every bit as reliable as the Civic, and its just a really good little car.

stickguy

If you can give up a few HP, the last few days there have been adds for an Infiniti G25x lease.

$329/mo for 36, triple 0 down.

I couldnt read the fine print, but I assume it is a base model, but not sure how much it would go up to add the roof, etc. premium package.

andre1969

for my '85 Silverado. It's at the mechanic right now. Talked to him yesterday, and he said it's definitely the water pump, and just that is probably gonna be at least $500. Today, he's going to put it up on the lift, look up under it, and give me his assessment of just how far gone the suspension and everything else is.

If he thinks the rest of it will hold for at least a few more months, I might go ahead and get the water pump done. But, if he finds other issues, my threshold for everything right now is around $1,000. If he estimates much more than that, I'm going to cut my losses, try to sell the thing for parts or something. Or, who knows? That generation of Chevy truck is kinda popular, maybe someone would want to buy it and try to restore it? As a last resort, I guess I'll just junk it. Insurance is paid up through March 2012, and the registration is good until early 2013, so I do have a little time.

As for a replacement, I am thinking more and more, about that Altima hybrid!

michaellno

As for a replacement, I am thinking more and more, about that Altima hybrid!

You mentioned selling the Park Avenue, too, correct?

How often do you use the truck as a truck?

Speaking of trucks, I was on the phone with my mom yesterday and she was telling me how little my dad (76) is driving these days. Also mentioned that he is continually getting offers for his '70 Chevy C-10. I told her that if she got an offer over $10K, they should seriously consider taking it, then use some of the money to buy a second, cheap vehicle (their primary driver is the '03 Sonata they have with probably less than 30K on the odo).

Mom thought that dad would keep the truck until he passes, even though it hardly gets driven.

andre1969

You mentioned selling the Park Avenue, too, correct?

Well, I'd end up selling the Park Ave to my roommate, so it would still be in the household. I'm letting him borrow the Park Ave right now, anyway. He doesn't have a car right now, and had been using my truck to get back and forth to work. He was actually paying for the gas, insurance, repairs, etc. Well, okay, I was putting the repairs on my credit card, and he was paying me back.

How often do you use the truck as a truck?

Very rarely these days. A couple weeks ago, I helped a friend's Mom out by taking an old deep freeze, barbecue grille, and some other junk to the dump. Back around March my uncle and I used it to go to Sears to pick up a new lawn tractor. About a year ago, I took a load of stuff to GoodWill to donate.

So, I could probably get by without a truck. And on the instances that I need one, I could probably borrow my uncle's '97 Silverado. I think my '85 has only been driven about 3,000 miles in the past year.

Oh, also on the subject of trucks, I had gone on Craigslist, to see if I could get an idea of what people are asking for trucks similar to mine. I couldn't find any ratty enough to compare, but did find this: 1986 Chevy C10 for a reasonable price.

I hate to think what kind of fuel economy it would get, and it almost looks too pretty to use as a truck. But it does have me curious. I wonder what kind of shape it's in underneath?

corvette

IIRC, the hybrid Altima doesn't have a folding back seat, or if it does fold, it only provides access to the battery pack. Something to consider if you're planning on replacing a truck. I have to fold down the seats for something at least every few months.

andre1969

Yeah, I've read that the hybrid altima only has something like 10 cubic feet of trunk space, down from about 15 for the regular model. I think I could deal with that, though. If I ever needed to haul anything big, I'd just borrow my uncle's truck.

The last time I took one of my cars on a major road trip was back in 2005, when two friends and me went down to Florida for a week in my Intrepid, and we had it packed to the gills. Nowadays, if we go anywhere really far away, we take my buddy's 2006 Xterra. I don't think I really need a big trunk anymore, and I can't even remember the last time I've had to have three people in the back seat. I think it was back when my Intrepid was still fairly new, and I took my Dad, Granddad, aunt and uncle out to lunch, and my aunt remarked about how big the back seat was.

I don't really "need" a truck, or even a big car anymore, so I think an Altima hybrid would probably fit most of my needs. The biggest adjustment would probably be adjusting to something that "small" :P

kyfdx

yeah... I've been looking at sedans, as well.. She would be fine with the power of a G25, as long as it has all the bells and whistles..

The thing is... if the car were for me, I'd be less likely to get something I didn't want.. I did that three years ago with the Impreza 24-month lease. So, I'm trying to keep her wants/needs in mind, and treat them as my own. Choosing a car isn't always a rational exercise, but it's a lot easier impose rationality, when you don't have to drive it.

I think I could get her into an AWD Caddy CTS for under $400/mo, as well.. but, if its a Cadillac, she wants the SRX, so add $125/mo....

I can buy the Volvo... 72 months at 2.9% for around $620 month.. and, it would be under warranty and maintenance plan for 60 months of that... In the big picture (her wants/needs, total cash outlay), that might be the way to go.... but, it'll hurt.. It is her favorite of the cars she has driven..

The E30 we are going to look at this weekend has an asking price of $4500.. I'm thinking of making that in one payment...

kyfdx

'87 325iS

qbrozen

How many miles? If low, the price would be more realistic if it weren't for the seats and busted bumper. I would deduct the cost to replace those and make that my top offer, personally. And that bumper wouldn't be cheap, that's for sure.

andre1969

and kicked the can (hopefully) a bit further down the road. Mechanic called back, and said that while the whole front suspension on my truck needs to be re-done, it should still be awhile before anything catastrophic fails. At ~3,000 miles per year, he said it could last indefinitely. So, I'm getting the water pump done and while he's got it apart, belts replaced.

One of these days, that truck's gonna have to be replaced with a newer vehicle, but, for the time being, I'm putting that cost off for awhile. Hopefully a LONG while!

The only thing that hurts a little, is the whole short-term pain versus long-term pain thing. This repair is going on the credit card, which will have to be paid in mid-November. Had I bought that Altima, well, I still have enough home equity to raid. I've paying extra on the HELOC, and by a pretty good amount, so if I took out money to buy the Altima, it wouldn't change my payment one bit, although I would up it anyway, just so I'm not paying for that car for the next 30 years!

ateixeira

The catch is the DI V6 only came out in 2012, and it offers enough power to make you think twice about paying more for a V8, and the highway mileage means great range. It would be a nice comfy sedan for long road trips.

The Genesis may be a mid-size luxury sedan impersonator, but remember, in this case we're talking about paying significantly less than you would for an X3, GLK, or XC60.

Compare those - the Hyundai gives up absolutely nothing to those entry compact crossovers. Only the Q5 is nicer, IMHO.

ateixeira

In the interest of preservation of capital...

Have you priced a Jetta TDI Sportwagen?

You said you looked at a Tiguan, compare them closely. The Jetta is MUCH nicer. Softer materials, fabric-lined A-pillars, nicer headliner, the list goes on and on.

To me, the GTI and Sportwagen are a whole lot nicer than the Tiguan. I could point out 6 places where they cut costs, and the Tiguan ain't cheap.

Just an alternative if you don't need AWD (ironically, from an AWD fan).

fintail

So in other words, virtually none of the fleet has that engine. Just wait a couple years as it is virtually certain to depreciate like the early models.

The Genesis does lack one thing to be compared with those crossovers, AWD.

ateixeira

The early V6 retailed for just $33k for starters, something like that. Normal discounts could get you in one for $30k.

A quick peek at cars.com for used ones...09 models are still $25-26k.

That's actually pretty strong residuals compared to price paid. May as well just get a new one.

laurasdada

Drove the wife's 535xi last night, briefly, for the first time. It felt...big. Just a short, local hop so hard to judge. Wife was returning from her walk as my son and I were headed out, she reminded me not to exceed 60mph (break-in). I told her I hit 60 before the end of the driveway!

Jag is back at the dealer, another minor electrical gremlin (Nav system). Whodathunk it, a British car with electrical gremlins! As long as I have warranty and a loaner car (Land Rover LR2 , was hoping for an XF...), I'm good.

And, regarding wagons and hatchbacks, that is basically what SUV's are... IMO, of course. I grew up in the era of the "hot hatch" and owned a couple (VW Scirocco, Mitsu Mirage Turbo, Acura Integra. Those were the days...). Oh, yeah. I still drive a hot hatch!

fintail

Asking prices at retail are the same as used. A dealer is free to ask what they want, and marque dealers usually ask the world, but don't often get it. I have yet to see anything to suggest secondary market demand is supporting those residuals.

stickguy

But, but but,,, It's a station wagon! You must be kidding!

Not like a CUV like an RX 350 or XC60 which is, well, a station wagone, but it pretends not to be!

IOW, the soccer mom equivilant of a little kid going "vroom vroom" and pretending to drive!

ateixeira

Even if a dealer were foolish enough to take a low-ball $20k offer, that car is 3 years old now (2009 vs. 2012), and residuals would still be in the 60s in terms of percentage.

That's pretty good any way you look at it, even worst-case.

michaellno

But, but but,,, It's a station wagon! You must be kidding!

Not like a CUV like an RX 350 or XC60 which is, well, a station wagone, but it pretends not to be!

I hear you ... I don't think my wife would be caught dead in a station wagon, but give it a bit of a lift and add AWD, and, suddenly, she's interested!

Last weekend my wife had a friend of hers over to the house, and we were talking about new cars. Turns out her friend drives a '00 Saab 9-3 5-door and is looking to replace it - lots of miles and she's nervous about Saab going out of business and not having parts availability.

She wants something that has the cargo capacity of the Saab, but still gets decent gas mileage, as she does a fair amount of driving.

She and her husband had 3 cars - the Saab, a truck for him and a Pacifica - but they recently sold the Pacifica.

After she left, I thought about the Honda Accord Crosstour or the Acura TSX Wagon as options for her. I know her husband is looking at Volvos, but I don't know which model - XC60 or XC70, I would presume.

ateixeira

Wanted to verify that, so I did. 60% for 15k miles/year on a 3 year lease, 61% for 12k miles. That's for the V6.

The R-spec residual is lower, at 56%, but that's still decent.

Someone was quoting a V8 model (not R-spec) lease in the low 400s with zero down. Compared to 600s for an XC60? 50% more for the Volvo?

I'd take the Genesis easily, if it met my (wife's) needs.

fintail

But we're in 2011, and how many of these hit the road 36 months ago? I bet a real world figure is closer to 24 or so months...the ball took a long time to get rolling.

breld

I hear you ... I don't think my wife would be caught dead in a station wagon, but give it a bit of a lift and add AWD, and, suddenly, she's interested!

My wife, on the other hand, adores wagons (of European descent, that is). When we had our GTI in last week (just to get the license plate bracket installed), we were taking in the used lot, and she really liked a recent model Saab 9-3 wagon they had.

What she'd really like is an E46 wagon. Earlier in the summer we had looked at a 2001 325xi wagon with sport and stick, with about 114k miles. Price seemed decent, at about $7,500. It drove nice, and if we hadn't just bought our 318ti (like the previous week), we may very well have bought that wagon.

The one posted here a few pages back (gray-green, RWD, sport, stick, with low miles) is actually local for us. I showed it to her and she just couldn't go for the color. Which is good, 'cause if she really liked it, I may have found myself figuring out a way to get it.

Our 318ti is at a local mechanic right now. We didn't have any concerns with it, but we just thought since we didn't get a pre-inspection done on it, we'd have it checked out just to make sure there wasn't anything hidden that we weren't noticing. They suggested a couple of minor repairs (trannie service, front axle bearing something or another (I'm no mechanic)) which they're performing as we speak (or, as I type I suppose).

This is a local independent BMW mechanic with a good reputation, so it was reassuring to me when the owner said it was a "super-nice" car and the nicest 318ti he's seen. I always felt the price we paid in June for the car was a bit high, but justified for the condition - it's just nice to get the validation.

ateixeira

One of the ones I found had 61k miles...so that's been around for a while, I'm sure.

No matter, since we're comparing leases. Would you pay $600 plus for an XC60, or $400 plus for a V8 Genesis?

Neither is an acceptable answer, but you'd have to be crazy to pay 50% more for the smaller/slower Volvo, and that's coming from an AWD fan.

roadburner

his is a local independent BMW mechanic with a good reputation, so it was reassuring to me when the owner said it was a "super-nice" car and the nicest 318ti he's seen. I always felt the price we paid in June for the car was a bit high, but justified for the condition - it's just nice to get the validation.

Congrats! And don't forget about 318ti.org; there is a lot of helpful information there.