Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ateixeira

Remember when the Civic has a 4 speed manual, vinyl seats, and no passenger side mirror?

A/C was a luxury option, dealer-installed and cost a small fortune.

The Honda dealer in Bethesda was still slapping on markups on top of $1800 A/C.

stever

A reporter would like to interview anyone who has used Edmunds.com's Car Match.

Please email pr@edmunds.com by November 4, 2011 with your daytime phone number and a comment about your experience.

isellhondas

Well, if it HAS to have a sunroof than he will have to buy an EX model.

LX 5 speed sedans are a whole lot more common than coupes but even these are pretty few and far between. Sticks simply don't sell very well compared to automatics and for every stick a dealer orders, that's one less automatic they can get.

But, five speed EX sedans are another near impossoble car to find.

Same would apply to Corollas only even more so. Don't know about Focus 5 speed numbers but I would suspect the same situation.

kyfdx

My first Accord didn't have A/C, power steering or a right side mirror... The radio was AM/FM, but not stereo (dealer installed)..

It did have a deluxe cloth interior, though....

michaellno

My first Accord didn't have A/C, power steering or a right side mirror... The radio was AM/FM, but not stereo (dealer installed)..

It did have a deluxe cloth interior, though....

+1 on that.

I had two Accords in the early 90's .. the first was a '92 LX that we bought on sale (1 only at this price!). We had been preapproved at the CU for a specific amount and the sale price of the car allowed us to add a CD player (!). I think the retail price of the CD player was something like $1500.

The second was a '93 DX that I got after separating from my first wife (she got the LX) and moving to Denver from SoCal. 5-speed, no A/C, no radio. The dealer offered me either free A/C or free stereo and, being the dummy that I was at the time, I took the stereo. I'd never needed A/C since I lived so close to the beach.

AM/FM Cassette with only 2 speakers. Shoulda taken the A/C and gone aftermarket for the stereo. Oh well - choices and consequences.

ak - you can only get the Focus with a 5-speed if you stay with the SE trim level.

It's getting harder and harder to find small cars that offer manual transmissions. I was on the Mazda website the other day, looking at 3's with the new SkyActiv engine. Turns out that to get the trim level and equipment I want, I have to take the engine with the 6-speed auto.

Otherwise, I have to go with the 2.5L 4-cyl and a different manual transmission. The stick shift with the SkyActiv engine has shorter throws, I've learned.

Also, the SkyActiv models only come with 16" wheels which, in the pictures, look a bit small. I know that was done for MPG purposes, but still....

roadburner

I suspect this beauty is hiding some serious corrosion, but still...

1970 2800 CS

akangl

ak - you can only get the Focus with a 5-speed if you stay with the SE trim level.

He drove both an automatic and a manual focus, neither is in danger of coming home with us. We looked at the 12 civics and all we could think was "what was honda thinking??"

In other words, the escort will be home next week.

Sandman6472

What did he end up with? I must've missed it.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472

1980 Datsun B210 red with black/white seats but a slushbox. It was used with 12k when I got it for $2500.00 plus a '76 Izuzu Opel, what a piece of crap!! The B210 was a real step up for me and the 1st car I financed since my folks, millionaires, would'nt lend me the $2500 bucks. Naturally, the day we got back from our honeymoon, the wife & I go to the bank to pay the balance off. She told me,"we don't finance anything" and except for the house, we don't! But I did love the B210 for the time we had it. That hatch was so useful that it was traded in on a '88 Corolla FX hatch.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472

Mine has the 16" alloys from a '05 Civic Si which I won on Ebay and they look great on the car. Still think my car handles better than the Versa & Accent in the stable with their 15" alloys...also rides smoother. We won't go above 16" on the wife's next ride as I hate the shorter sidewall and increased cost of replacements. Her Mazda 3 with the new Affinity sneakers I bought last week drives like a different car now, much more stable on dry and wet pavement and grips so much better going around a corner. Firestone did good with this brand of tire. And at $84 bucks per, not too pricey either. Trust me, the car will be gone way before they wear out.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

mark156

I liked the little Datsun and kept it two years then I bought a new '81 Oldsmobile (disaster). My Mom (parents not millionaires) let me borrow $500 to put down on the '79 Datsun (I was 21).

I put down $7500 (my own money) on the new Oldsmobile that listed for about $11,000. I moved on to a new '84 Peugeot 505 STI with a $9,500 down payment that listed for $17,000.

All that seemed like forever ago now that I'm 53.

Mark156

isellhondas

" What was Honda thinking"

Can you explain what you meant?

I drove a 2012 Civic LX and I didn't think there was much of a change from the 2011's. It seemed quietier and like it had a bit more pep.

I guess I expected there to be more changes that weren't there.

andre1969

what do y'all think of this? 2012 Altima V-6 for $21,465. Now, it's a base V-6, so nothing fancy. No leather, sunroof, etc. But, it seems like a pretty good price to me. I guess in a way, being fairly basic (by today's standards) but with the big engine, it's almost like a modern day muscle car.

I'm surprised to see such a deep discount, but I wonder if it's because the V-6 just isn't that in-demand anymore, and those who want it also want a better-equipped car? Plus, I guess the current generation of Altima is getting a bit long in the tooth. This dealership has 4 of these V-6 cars, all equipped the same way. And all in dull colors. White, white, gray, and silver. I wonder if someone goofed up when ordering for the dealership?

They also have two black sedans, with leather, sunroof, etc, for around $25,400. That seems like a decent price too, but the $21,465 for a base V-6 model is almost cheap enough to tempt me!

andre1969

Can you explain what you meant?

I drove a 2012 Civic LX and I didn't think there was much of a change from the 2011's. It seemed quietier and like it had a bit more pep.

I've heard some people complain about cost cutting on the interior and such. And it seems like every time Honda redesigns a car, they make it a little bigger, which makes people complain. Although in my case, every time they make one a little bigger, it means I'm more likely to buy one! :P

I've heard the Civic's gotten big enough that the front seat is almost mid-sized these days. I haven't checked one out yet, though.

rayainsw

Interesting - but I wonder how big their
'documentary fee' [ sic ] is ?
- Ray
Seen $599 and up, these days....

andre1969

Interesting - but I wonder how big their
'documentary fee' [ sic ] is ?
- Ray
Seen $599 and up, these days....

That's a good point. I've heard Fitzmall is a pretty reputable dealer network though, so hopefully their "doc fee" isn't too ridiculous.

Just out of curiosity, I looked up the extra stuff that got factored in when I bought my 2000 Park Ave. Total came out to $8128.58, with tax and everything. That was $7500 for the car, $450 for Maryland state tax (6%), and that would leave $178.58 for the other associated fees and such. I guess that's not *too* bad, although I transferred the tags from my wrecked Intrepid, rather than getting new tags, so I guess that would have made it worse.

kyfdx

FitzMall used to have doc fees of around $149...

I'm guessing they spell it out on their website.... they seem to be very upfront about everything.....

tjc78

If there aren't any crazy extra fees on top of it, I think it sounds like a killer deal. I've never seen a V6 Altima that wasn't optioned to the sky.

I've driven both the V6 and the 4cyl Altima and while I believe the 4cyl rode softer, the V6 is a beast. The Nissan VQ is awesome and the car is really quick. I've seen you mention the Altima a few times in the forums, maybe the time is now...

isellhondas

I didn't notice any cost cutting measures in the interior and I don't think they made them any bigger. Maybe I didn't look hard enough or maybe it's because some people love finding fault.

I was disappointed when the car didn't jump out at me in a "Wow, that's a new 2012 Civic!"

At first, I thought I was looking at a 2011 until I looked closer.

It's tough. If they change the looks too much some people will say "Why did Honda mess up a good thing?"

I just hope Honda is paying attention to the competition.

isellhondas

Andre,

There is nothing "wrong" with an Altima equipped that way but those would be a dog to sell. Honda makes LX V-6 sedans but they are VERY poor sellers.

Most people, if they really feel the "need" for a V-6 are going to want the upscale model. Also, Altimas have never been strong sellers compared to Accords or Camrys. Not bad cars just not great sellers.

kyfdx

I'd be happier, if you looked at something more exciting than an Altima...

Really.... for $22K, that's all you can come up with?

tjc78

Also, Altimas have never been strong sellers compared to Accords or Camrys. Not bad cars just not great sellers.

The Altima as of Oct 3 was at 200,554 the Accord at 181,014

Click Here

andre1969

I've seen you mention the Altima a few times in the forums, maybe the time is now...

Yeah, I came close a couple weeks ago, when Fitzmall had a used Altima Hybrid on their website, and the water pump on my Silverado went out.

And while most people do want more options, I kinda like the idea of a car that's not loaded to the gills, but still has a fast engine. And I think I can get used to not having a sunroof again.

stever

Look at how long Andre drives 'em. If the VQ35DE is anything like the VG33E in my Quest, it'll be running when the DeSoto celebrates its 100th anniversary.

kyfdx

I know... that's why it's so important to get it right...

If I buy the wrong car? Well.. there's always next month...

akangl

" What was Honda thinking"

Can you explain what you meant?

Mainly the redesign was really just meh, I don't know what's up with the split windows on the front door, kind of weird. The interior seemed cheap and blah. They made the center console area wider which for taller drivers like my hubby means his leg will always hit it. His 09 just seemed much nicer and classier.

He looked at an Accord and really liked it, but decided he doesn't want to spend the $$$ right now on a new car when his Civic has been so faithful. That and he has other plans for that money.........men, get something in their mind and its hard to get it out!

corvette

"I'd be happier, if you looked at something more exciting than an Altima..."

Watch yo' mouth! :P

akangl

Figured I'd post a pic of the car causing me all the issues this last week. Not a bad looking little bugger and if it wasn't so reliable there's no way I'd let it come back home.

isellhondas

As I understand it, Nissan didn't get hurt nearly as bad by what happened in Japan.

Honda REALLY got hurt to the point the lots are still nearly empty of cars!

stever

Not to mention they've had to shut a factory down in Bangkok due to flooding. Toyota has problems there too, and has had to cut back some production in Japan.

michaellno

Andre,

FWIW, here are my thoughts on that Altima you linked to:

1) White - kind of a 'blah' color
2) No options - you're right, most people would want a loaded car with the big engine

But, I would strongly encourage you to test drive it. Why? The CVT. I test drove the Suzuki Kizashi not long ago with one and absolutely hated it. I know that most CVT's now come with some sort of "flappy paddle" override but that would be a hassle to deal with regularly. I'd much rather have a 3 pedal set up with a proper stick shift.

Other than that? Great price, and if you're happy with the level of equipment, then there really isn't much of a downside. As noted, you could probably drive it for 10 years (like the Intrepid) and be happy.

tjc78

I understand Honda had supply issues but 200000 units isn't too shabby through 9 months of the year for the Altima.

akangl

Honda REALLY got hurt to the point the lots are still nearly empty of cars!

The local Honda dealer in anchorage had almost no inventory yesterday, probably lower than I've ever seen it. The salesman I've always dealt with is also in charge of ordering and inventory, he was not happy about the situation at all. He said some things that surprised the heck out of me, stuff I never thought I'd hear him say. I hope the supply improves for his sake.

isellhondas

No, not too shabby. A lot of would be Honda buyers probably went in that direction.

isellhondas

No, it's REALLY bad. I recently took a tour of our parking lot where I worked and it was pathetic. I felt so sorry for those guys who have so littleproduct to sell. I'm glad I pulled the plug when I did for a number of reasons.

" You can't sell apples out of an empty cart"

ab348

I have heard some rumblings that the dealer community is pretty upset with Honda these days, both for lack of supply and for some of the recent product introductions being less than well-received by buyers.

stickguy

AK, the little triangle is what you need with that "cab forward" design,so you dont have such a big blind spot there.

akangl

the little triangle is what you need with that "cab forward" design,so you dont have such a big blind spot there.

Ok, that makes sense I guess. I still don't like it and the car looks odd. I much prefer the look of hubby's 09 Civic.......which the kid is having way too much fun "borrowing" this week.

stever

Dan Neil at the Wall St. Journal pans it this weekend.

"And just like that, a giant stumbles. The redesigned 2012 Honda Civic—one of the most successful cars in U.S. auto history, a nameplate burnished with the grateful tears of generations of Americans—is a dud. A sham. A shud. Massive fail, LOL." (Honda's Sporty New Civic, Heavy on the 'Ick')

roadburner

What did he end up with? I must've missed it.

He's driving my 1975 2002. He loves it; he especially likes the fact that it is small and nimble. An added bonus is that it attracts more attention in the school parking lot than do many newer Mustangs, Camaros, and such:

gouldn

Wow look at all that glass! That car sure doesn't need a backup cam :shades:

fezo

You should pull the car until he gets those becoming a lawyer thoughts out of his head....

stickguy

They need to break it up I think so the normal part of the window can roll down better too.

roadburner

Wow look at all that glass! That car sure doesn't need a backup cam

Tell me about it; no blind spots at all is a good thing- especially for a teen driver.

nyccarguy

That's one thing I vividly remember about my short lived time with my E30 325i. The view out the windows was truly panoramic.

kyfdx

I wouldn't know.... can't get my son out of the one we bought....

Had it a month, and other than driving it home, I doubt I've put 20 miles on it...

isellhondas

That is one man's very subjective opinion but if a lot of others feel the same way, Honda could be in for a rough road when it comes to Civics.

After six years I would have expected something unique and far different.

Still great cars but the competition in that segment is brutal.

That author played down the fact that Honda got hurt BADLY by the Japan situation and as a result really don't have any quanities of Civics to sell.

Still...." Yesterdays hits won't win today's ballgames"

stever

The competition is getting stiffer, but I think some of it is just piling on. Lots of people will shop Honda (or Toyota) while Hyundai and GM won't even be on their radar.

It does sound like a fast refresh is going to be in the works for the Civic though.

Sandman6472

I remember those while in college...cool cars! Am still thinking about that nice 330i from last week...very cool car...and comfortable also thoughthe seating was a bit low. I'd bet a nice cpo 328 one could snag for around the $21k to $23k range...just a bit more than a new Camry or Accord. The wife would never consider used, even cpo for that matter. But for my next ride, I definitely would and since I only drive about 800 miles/year if I'm lucky, a car with miles in the high teens/low 20's could work. Since my next car will probably be my last...and I can afford it, possibly, a great possibility. Just like Michaell in here, why not splurge once in our lifetime to get a d d totally out of character and as blast to drive. Part of me doesn't want to settle for a nice economobile next goround, I deserve a nicer ride for the long time I keep a car. And my budget will probably be around $20k plus my Civic and my time frame is probably around 2015 to buy again.

What does BMW, or MB for that matter, do to the cars they sell as cpo? Are they really almost as good as brand new? And can these cars live on a diet of only 87 octane? Who knows what the price of petrol will be at that time?

Thanks for reading this longish post but i really do think that I deserve a nice smallish entry level luxo ride next time round!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Sandman6472

I forgot, what did y'all buy?

The Sandman :sick: :shades: