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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    My friend in Atlanta bought a new 2011 300c last month....Tungsten Gray, dark gray leather. He really likes it. Since 1990, he has had 3 Honda Accords ('90,'98,'03) 1 Acura TSX ('05) and now the '11 Chrysler.

    In southern California, I have seen SO many Fiat 500's. Cute little car and the choice of colors is enormous. I really don't remember Fiat's being in the US before, what year? :confuse:

    Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    My friend in Atlanta bought a new 2011 300c last month....Tungsten Gray, dark gray leather. He really likes it.

    That was originally what we stopped by the Chrysler dealer to look at, but the fuel economy on the AWD model was just too low for a car that's going to be going 500+ miles/week. Only other choice was the RWD and that just won't work. That's why we looked at the 200, FWD and really a nice car.

    I think we are going to look at the rest of the list tomorrow and then narrow it down. Next will be waiting for slick roads and checking out the narrowed down choices on bad roads. After that will be ordering the car because selection in Alaska sucks.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    I just bought a 2012 LaCrosse and love it. It's roomy, comfortable and has plenty of power. Mine is pretty loaded up with Nav, etc. I really like all the technology. I drove the Taurus as well, but the interior was small for a car so large outside.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,280
    edited October 2011
    You're coming out of a Civic and think the Regal has too much road noise? Really?

    I have a 2011 Regal Turbo and because of the tire choice there is more road noise than my former '09 Allure/Lacrosse but not all that much more. It is far from a noisy car. I understand they have added more "Quiet Tuning" stuff to the 2012 models built in Oshawa. Regardless, I love the Regal Turbo. So much fun to drive, especially on the open road.

    The new Lacrosse is a beautiful car but I don't think it would be all that much more fuel-efficient than the Taurus or the 300. It is a heavy beast.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    Not sure of the exact years, but friends back in Chattanooga had a Fiat convertible around 1975 or so. They had lots of problems with it (and then there was the time they came over for a visit and no one realized it had started raining - that put an inch of water on the floorboards). Cute car though and probably wasn't much worse mechanically than the Volvo that kept stranding me. Or the Cutlass with the dicey fuel system a couple of years before that.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    What is your opinion of the Saturn SC 5 speed? I don't mean compared to Corvettes or BMWs but just as a everyday somewhat sporty good milage daily driver.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Didn't Fiat go away here about 1980? I remember them selling a car that looked like an Italian VW Rabbit and that was pretty much the end of the line.

    From what I see of the moves they are making now it sounds like they are way more serious about the American market this time. An Alfa Spyder please!
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I realize that was ancient history. Hopefully Fiat is no longer producing the junk they were building in the past.

    We were asked our opinion and I simply gave mine. I just happen to think that given the history of both makes that there are better choices out there.

    If someone wants to buy a low rated car in terms of reliability and a car that has dismal resale value they can certainly do so.

    Maybe they will get lucky?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yeah, it was somewhere around that time. We had next door neighbors who were torn between a Honda and a Toyota in the mid seventies.

    They ended up with a Fiat Brava and it was a total POS in every way imaginable.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    edited October 2011
    The new Lacrosse is a beautiful car but I don't think it would be all that much more fuel-efficient than the Taurus or the 300. It is a heavy beast.

    Its not that great, I have the FWD 3.6 and although I have just over 500 miles the first two tanks didn't break 17. I am sure it will get a little better and that was 75% city.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...Didn't Fiat go away?..."

    I think you are responding to someone else's question, not mine. I asked about a Saturn.

    Anyway, I think the 500 is a cute little car and I wouldn't mind driving the fold down top model but at $21,000 and only about 32mpg it's just not quite enough car for the money. I'd take a Madza2 or an Accent over it.

    It's funny that Isell responded to the same Fiat post because I was just joking on another board that he had gone to work for a Fiat dealer. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When I was in the tool business I spent a ton of time in a lot of shops and I quickly learned which cars were despised by the mechanics.

    High on the list of hated cars were Fiats, Renaults, Peugeots and a few others.

    A lot of money was made by the speciality shops who would work on them when most other shops wouldn't.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...list of hated cars..."

    I wonder, why did Europeans put up with such unreliable cars? You would think that if Fiat and the rest were so bad they would have been importing American cars.

    Or did those car makers just send us their junk and keep the good stuff home?

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    They were probably just different and hard to get parts for. Goodness knows that cars back in the 70's generally were pretty bad. My '74 CJ-5's gas tank rotted away within 3 years, although I don't remember getting stranded in it (unlike the Olds and the Volvos of the same era - got towed 3 or 4 times in one year iirc). My mom drove a GMC pickup for a long time with the right high beam pointing to the North Star, and she used coat hanger wire to keep the passenger door shut on her Impala (and had a half-inch thick coat of silicone caulking on the rear window to try to stem the leaks).

    For me, it was VW Bugs that were reliable and easy to fix. Datsun followed. I didn't look at another Big 3 car or Swedish car until the Caravan concept was announced.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    VW bugs were tough little cars that would last a long time providing they weren't mistreated. They needed strict oil changes and valve adjustments and they need to be driven in a certain manner.

    The early Datsuns and Toyotas were even better and far less primitive.

    The French and Italian cars were just plain strange. Parts were hard to find sometimes and they could just be nasty to work on. As a result, a lot of shops just refused to work on them and I can't blame them.

    There was a shop in L.A. that specialized on Citroens and Peugeots.

    They took their time and charged whatever they felt like and had no shortage of work.

    They would say things like...." People that buy cars like this shouldn't expect to pay Chevy prices when they break."
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    I bought a new '84 Peugeot 505 STI (Black with Mink leather) and it was a great car. Right when I decided to trade, the air needed a recharge, other than that, no real problems. I bought an '87 Nissan Maxima (Burgundy). :D

    Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    Yeah, but some of that was because they couldn't pull a part out of the junkyard.

    And back then the mechanics all grumbled because they didn't have metric tools. Probably helped your biz. :shades:

    Mark, I knew one guy in the 80s with a "good" Peugeot wagon, and a friend wound up with a lemon.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Indeed I was responding to someone else's message.

    It was killing me trying to remember the model of that awful Fiat - the Strada! Like a Rabbit without the quality control! :sick: (Where are the rolleyes?!?)
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,351
    I read somewhere the other day that because of the success of the Mini and the 500, that Renault was thinking about re-introducing the Le Car to the U.S. Market. Better get your order in.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    Got it in FreebieShark.com actually last week and printed it. Gonna go use it tomorrow afternoon.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I've owned two Peugeots and they were strange but good comfortable cars.

    I can guarantee you that your non functioning A/c need more than "just a charge".
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    An inch or so of snow on the ground this morning.......perfect day to test drive mid-size sedans. By the end of the day the list had narrowed from 8 to just 3.

    2012 Volkswagen Passat TDI
    2012 Toyota Camry
    2012 Chrysler 200

    The biggest disappointment of the day was the 2012 Subaru Legacy, figuring with AWD it would have done the best on slick roads, nope, it was scary. That car was more than happy to swap ends. The Passat was flawless as was the Camry. The 200 behaved fairly well with a little slip here and there. The roads really were horrible and of course none of the tested cars had snow tires.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    how did you go from small 2 door sticks to actively shopping mid size sedans?

    And the legacy has to be all about the tires. since you put on snows, should not be an issue.

    What about the new imprezza? I haven't seen one in person, but it has gotten excellent reviews.

    a set of snows on that baby and it should be just about unstoppable.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I wonder if the dealer forgot to air down the OEM tires on the Subie.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    how did you go from small 2 door sticks to actively shopping mid size sedans?

    Couldn't find a small 2 dr stick that appealed to hubby so decided to step up to mid-size and look there.

    He loved the Passat, but I have hesitation as far as reliability. I know the 2 VWs I had were not interested in being reliable. The Camry was nice, but we'd have to go with a 4-cyl and hubby isn't thrilled about that with an automatic.

    The Subaru was ok, maybe with snows it'd be better, but man, see an awful lot of them upside down in the ditch during the winter. Neither of my Imprezas were anything wonderful with snows on in the winter.

    I can say this with certainty, I am totally SICK of car shopping and don't care if I ever look at another car. I love my truck and hopefully someday I will be able to drive it again.
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Akangl, somebody should tell the northeasterners (NY,VT,NH and ME) that the Suburu's are not good in bad weather. They have the northeast locked up tight. I have never seen so many Subaru's in one place in my life. LOL!

    Good luck in your search.

    Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Isell, I'm sure you are right about the air conditioner in the Peugeot, I never had it checked as I traded it in as is. Otherwise, the car was very reliable. I probably had about 30K miles on it as the '87 Maxima's came out early (May '86). Then I bought a '89 Maxima in burgundy when I replaced the '87.

    Mark156
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    edited October 2011
    I can say this with certainty, I am totally SICK of car shopping and don't care if I ever look at another car.

    That is blasphemy. ;)

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Subaru was ok, maybe with snows it'd be better, but man, see an awful lot of them upside down in the ditch during the winter.

    That's because they're the only cars out there, besides maybe Audis.

    OEM tires are a weak spot on those, we call 'em Blo-tenzas. :D
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    I noticed a ton of Audi's and Subaru's (which are the Japanese Audi).

    It was summer time (labor day weekend), but the locals seemed to like their Subaru and Audi vehicles. Never seen so many before.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    Next time you go skiing, try this - walk through the employee parking lot.

    Among the cars (excluding trucks) there, all the staff drive Subarus, but the managers drive Audis (they'll be in the reserved spots).

    :D
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Our son bought a new Impreza two years ago and the first time it snowed it did HORRIBLE. Scared him to death! a set of Blizzaks cured the problem.

    Then, without warning at 32,000 miles, it threw a rod!

    Engine promptly replaced under warranty. a total fluke I'm sure but he has lost confidence in the car now.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Well, at only 30,000 your Peugeot didn't have enough time to give you trouble.

    They were vexactious to work on and quirkly as can be. The shops just hated them.

    We had friends with a 604. When the heater core blew, it was a 12 hour labor job to replace it plus hundereds of dollars for parts.

    The shop that tackled the job said it took far more than the 12 hours they charged and that they would never work on another Peugeot.

    It has an A/C leak that no chop cold ever find and fix.

    That said, no car ever had more comfortable seats!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,493
    Before every single manufacturer offered AWD or 4WD in some form or another, pretty much every home in New England & Upstate NY had either a Jeep, Audi, or Subaru in their driveway.

    Where I went to school in Ithaca, NY, Suabru was the vehicle of choice for college professors & locals.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    edited October 2011
    One bad apple doesn't ruin a species.

    I had an '87 Honda XL250 that blew the whole top end on my birthday in 1989, on the way to my own party!

    2 years old and a whole lot less than 32k miles.

    It was a freak occurrence, no more no less. Just like your son's Impreza.

    I have photos but my wife is in the pic and she'd kill me if I showed off her 80s hair. :D

    If he bit into a rotten honey crisp, he may stick to red delicious from now on, but he may be missing out.
  • tjc78tjc78 Member Posts: 16,946
    When the heater core blew, it was a 12 hour labor job to replace it plus hundereds of dollars for parts.

    Heater cores on many cars are a total nightmare. My 79 Continental it was accessible from the engine compartment. Now on today's cars, you have to dismantle the entire dash, drop the steering column, and sometimes even dis-charge the A/C and pull the evaporator core out.

    2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,280
    I want to like Subarus, but just cannot warm up to them. The boxer engines always sound positively agricultural and ticky to me, and I have heard of far too many cases of piston slap to feel comfortable buying one. Plus the overall design themes seem rather odd, although I must say that their latest introductions are looking positively conventional compared to their past models. Plus, like the Audis to which someone compared them, they have a reputation as not being particularly trouble-free and being expensive to fix.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited October 2011
    Oh, he is well aware of all of that and I think he is slowly gaining confidence back.

    The engine decided to let go on a dark, rainy freeway with a lot of traffic. He was barely able to get out of way of a bunch of cars.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That stinks.

    Mine was in a parking lot, blew the top end while starting up.

    I walked to The Sante Fe Cafe in College Park, MD, and had a great time anyway.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,928
    Plus, like the Audis to which someone compared them, they have a reputation as not being particularly trouble-free and being expensive to fix.

    Really? I think that applies more to VW than Audi in the last decade. Audi has shown big strides in improving quality over the last 10 years.

    As far as Subaru, my perception of them has always been that they are the 3rd most reliable car maker behind Honda and Toyota. Old Subaru's seemed very reliable and certainly newer one's are "toyota-like" being as Toyota owns a good chunk of them now. Do people have differing views on Subaru's reputation for dependability?
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru definitely had its bumps (head gaskets, wheel bearings) but overall they've done well lately.

    My dealer jokes I see him once every 7 years, to buy a replacement. Never in between.

    Not really true, we did have one recall once.

    Overall they're more complex than Honda/Toyota (twice as many half shafts, twice as many heads/gaskets as in-line engines), though.
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    Just got done catching up on all of last week's posts.

    The Disneyland trip was a blast. We had reserved a minivan, but when I got to the rental car desk, they had a Ford Flex for us. At first, I was disappointed, thinking it appeared to be such a boat and would be a gas-guzzler, but it grew on me by the end of the week. It was surprisingly maneuverable and seemed to get good gas mileage - I didn't measure it in any way, but figured the $30 gas fill-up after driving from Orange County to Disney to Universal and back to the airport seemed pretty good. I thought the interior was really dated, and the metallic teal color was an unpleasant throwback to the '90s, but overall, it was a roomy and comfortable ride.

    Just got the snow tires/wheels put on the 328xi and CX-9 today, so we're all set for winter!

    And, I was happy to have the registration notice for the 530i in the mail when we returned - I hate having temp tags. I'm heading out of work a little early to get my "Broncos Country" plates registered to the 530 - though there are some second thoughts after yesterday :) .

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    "...every home in New England & Upstate NY had either a Jeep, Audi or Subaru..."

    Growing up in upstate NY I drove a RWD Plymouth with bald snow tires. Never got stuck for long. Always made it home.

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    edited October 2011
    "...heater cores on many cars are a total nightmare..."

    Nonsense, I see many cars on craigslist that say the heater core is bad but it is only a $25 part. :P

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Do people have differing views on Subaru's reputation for dependability?

    I've owned 2 and didn't have them for long. The 97 blew its airbag computer and Subaru's reaction to it was, well the part will be at the dealer in a few months, in the meantime just know that the airbags may or may not blow at any time. My second one was a 2000 and other than electrical issues plus being rather freaky in the snow it was an ok car. Why Subaru still puts those horrible OEM tires on the cars is beyond me, around here we call them *Up-endzas*.

    Its boiled down to either buying a 2012 Camry or keeping the Civic and paying it off in 5 weeks or so. Hard to know what the right answer is. Civic has just shy of 90k on it, but I have no doubt it will go well over 200k.
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    Some of the recent posts remind me of some of the duds I've encountered. First new car (had plenty of used junkers before hand) as a late '80s Tempo. By far, the worst car I ever owned (and really left a bitter impression being my very first "new" car). Among most egregious offenses, taken from many egregious offenses, it would just stall in the middle of the road, for no apparent reason. Dealer said clogged injectors. Clogged injectors? They were cleaned every month (to the tune of $200) for 6 months. The injectors had to be cleaner than a surgeon's hands.

    So, what do I do? I trade it after a year for a car my (then) wife wanted.....an AMC Alliance (really a Renault). I had gone from bad to worse. She wanted something that would get good MPG. The Alliance did do that. But, you had to plan your freeway merges with a sun dial. The seat fabric was so thin, it developed holes in it after 6 months. The lock mechanism on the steering wheel wouldn't release, on 3 different occasions, leaving us stranded, with a tow bill.

    OTOH, my older sister had a little Fiat Spyder convertible she bought new (can't remember the model year). She had ZERO problems with it. Fun little car. Slow as hell, but fun to drive with the top down. I bought it from her with 75K miles. Of course, at that juncture, Fiat was pulling out of the U.S. And the Spyder started leaking, oozing, and generally breaking down.

    I could go on. But, when I was in my 20s, looking for new cars in the entire decade of the '80s, I couldn't have been more disappointed in the QC and engineering of most cars, foreign and domestic.

    Things started getting better in the '90s. But, the cars I've driven in the last 4-5 years are some of the best I've ever driven.
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    The girlfriend has a Subie Station Wagon. I'm guessing mid-2000s? She loves it. She drives it more than her Avalanche (which she also loves).
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    So, what's the verdict: Flex or CX9? Would you trade?
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,181
    Lest we not forget the not quite dead yet Saab! Subaru's were the poor man's Saab in New England. Although I was (am) a poor man and drove (my father's) Saabs.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe for the quirky character.

    But I always thought Subaru was the Japanese Porsche, only driven backwards. :D
This discussion has been closed.