Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

oldfarmer50

"...How far are you from Clifton Park?..."

About 10 miles across the river. Does your friend have a Z3 or Z4 for stickguy? We might get him to come up here on a buying tour.

nyccarguy

As you all know, I own 3 Hondas ('01 Prelude, '10 TSX, '11 Pilot). Now granted since our TSX is just over 2 years old (43K miles) & we just got our Pilot in May (8600 miles), we are NOT due for a new car anytime soon. I don't desire another one. If something happens to either car, I'd get another Pilot, but not another Acura or Honda.

anonymousposts

It's a great car. The 2.0t is effortless and it glides down the road like a VW should. We debated between the Tiguan and a GTI but in the end went with the Tiguan for the extra space. We had a 09 Jetta wagon that we kept for a few months, it really made us want a VW. We are a bit nervous about reliability but we are Toyota and Honda'd out and neither company really makes anything we "gotta have" right now.

qbrozen

Not sure if price is realistic. They do depreciate like week old doughnuts, and I have seen them for darned cheap in the past so I didn't think anything of it. Anyway, as for the tranny, the coupes came in 2 flavors: GT, which is the stick, and the cambiocorsa, which is a single-clutch automated manual, much like the BMW smg.

roadburner

A friend of mine has a clean 2006 M5 on his lot:



It has 48k miles on it and he's only asking $34,000. I'd be tempted were it not for the SMG gearbox and it's penchant for requiring uber-expensive repairs. Still, an unrestricted top speed of 204 mph is way kewl...

Sandman6472

Sweet especially in that blue color!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

slorenzen

What happened to the Camry SE?

I remember being surprised that you liked that car...

kyfdx

There is an article in Roundel this month... about a guy with a 2000 E39 M5 with 250K on it....

Interesting.... costly...

anonymousposts

We sold the Camry right after we purchased the Genesis. I liked the Camry but didn't like the automatic.

fezo

BMW has more just excellent blues than other companies have good colors at all.

I remain stunned at how perfect a looking car they consistently put out. Based on appearance (and if I had the right money) I'd be buying BMWs or Audis all the time.

On my budget if VW could get up to world class reliability and trained their dealers to be at least housebroken I'd likely ignore the Japanese all together.

michaellno

Am in Colorado Springs this weekend, so I had some time to peruse a few dealers and take a couple of test drives.

The CX-7 was at the dealer for a LOF and tire rotation (15K). Since the dealer is a combo VW-Mazda-Volvo, I took the opportunity to take a test drive of a C30.

The one I drove was an R-Design that was loaded to the tune of $35K. Metallic orange, and the only C30 on the lot (of 5 or 6) that was a manual.

First, the seats are so supportive and comfortable. I've test driven Volvos in the past, and it is a characteristic shared by each one. The 6-speed was very light - in fact, on one shift my left foot got hung up on the dead pedal and I only got the clutch about halfway to the floor. No problem getting to the next gear.

The car was quick, as you'd expect with 227HP. Quiet and handled well. If I were to go down that path, I'd probably have less equipment (cold weather, Xenons) to keep the price in the mid to high 20's.

Second stop was the Nissan dealer to drive a 6-speed FWD Juke - SV trim level in Metallic Bronze. Say what you want about the exterior styling - you either love it or you hate it - but it is distinctive. Inside, it's a bit more conventional - none of that MINI-like goofy ergonomics.

Driving impressions - whoa, that little turbo 1.6L engine puts out the power. While the 188HP of the Nissan is less than that of the Volvo, the ol' butt-ometer didn't notice any significant difference between the two. Nice clutch and gearshift .. I've forgotten how much fun a stick shift can be.

The advantage of the Nissan, of course, are the extra two doors that access the (admittedly) small rear seats. That, plus the low price of admission - approximately $23K for the mid-level SV I drove.

Strangely, I'd compare the Nissan to the VW GTI I drove a couple of months ago - 4 door hatches with small turbo engines. The Nissan is a CUV-wannabe, with slightly higher ground clearance, while the GTI is a proto-typical hot hatch.

Not that any of the above matters ... I'm hanging onto the ION for the forseeable future. No reason to get rid of it, what with 60K miles on itand a work-from-home job.

isellhondas

Ah....what am I missing here?

"I'ld get another Pilot but not another Acura or Honda"

I know I've been out of the business for over a year now but the last time I looked, a Pilot IS a Honda!

nyccarguy

I bought a Pilot out of necessity & we are very happy with it. It isn't a vehicle that I said " OMG, I have to have a Pilot!"

Sandman6472

Exactly...it's the budget that also keeps me from switching out my vehicle even though I can afford a new one now...for the amount that I drive, can't see swapping my low mileage Civic, though I've found a couple of cars I'd love to own right now. I really liked the Juke I sat in last week...a bit higher seating position with a pretty conventional dash layout. The VW Tiguan also impressed me with the great seating and the airy feeling out of all the windows. And the auqua marine Focus SEL hatch had nice leather and the SE I drove was adequet...the hatch was very functional and the views from all the windows was excellent. All three great choices and I've yet to drive the Elantra or the upcoming Verano.

Didn't get to the Miami auto show as my spinal issues took hold of me & getting in & out of so many cars was just impossible...very unhappy we didn't go, but it was the smart decision for my health. And we still have the Ft. Lauderdale smaller show coming in March...also our time frame has been pushed out till the 2013 model year, so we have time on our side. I will get the wife into the few remaining rides before tax season starts or it'll have to wait till April 16th!

This is a great time to buy in the compact market and with some more time, inventories will be back up & maybe even some rebates will crop up again! One can only hope! I am...

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

stickguy

once the kids hit HS, anything besides history has made me feel stupid (or at least, way out of date). Until today.

My daughter is a sophomore, and they all take driver's ed. So she had an assignment to look up 3 different cars (cheap, medium and dream) on KBB or Edmunds, and answer a bunch of questions about them. After all these years, finally something in my wheelhouse!

Sandman6472

Agree, once my kids got to middle school, most of their subjects they ran to their mother if they needed help...it's like I had a mental block against anything educational. It's not that I'm dumb or anything, I did graduate from college and was very close to getting my MBA, it's just that I was so burned out on learning, that it was hard to focus. I was so happy when my letter carrier job came along over 30 years ago, that I left school since I couldn't do both, as my wekly hours ran close to 60 or 65 in the beginning. After that, school was out of the question. And looking back, am still happy that I found a career with Uncle Sam and don't regret anything at all. my folks...well, that was a different story better left unsaid!

When the girls were picking out their respective rides, I did show them Edmunds.com among other sites so they could do some research on their own about what they wanted to buy. We told them how much money was in their accounts so they would pick only what they could afford. The oldest wanted the Elantra, but the $ wasn't there so she bought her next pick, the Versa. The middle girl wanted a Mini Cooper, but again, not enough funds so she got a Hyundai Accent. We told them that next time, buy the car you really want & can afford! We did our part with paying for most of their 1st rides but from now on, you're on your own!

All we have left is the boy but since he's living in Milwaukee for the time being, public transportation is his best choice. When the time comes, we'll do the smae for him!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

28firefighter

I have a C30 that is not an R-Design. That package was just not one they were ready to deal on when I bought mine, and 18" wheels was actually a negative for me given Pittsburgh potholes. Interestingly, and I don't know if this is still the case, finding a car with Xenon's when I bought my car was near impossible. I was told that it was essentially a special-order from the factory (and an expensive option given that it was a $1200 option and higher overall pricing on the car).

Ironically, my future brother-in-law and his wife have a Nissan Juke. While they were visiting recently, they noted that the back seat in my C30 is far more comfortable and useable than the backseat in their Juke. I don't know if I agree with that.

houdini1

Sandman, in this day and age where a lot of people refuse to work or want to be paid for doing nothing, you should be very proud of your 30 years with the U.S.P.S....and so should your parents.

Tip of my hat to you for a worthy accomplishment.

Sandman6472

Thanks, that's nice of you to say...it was a great job though I was forced out due to my on the job injury last year...I would still be there if not for that. Unfortunately, both my folks passed without ever once telling me they were proud of me for finding a good, responsible job & for the great family I gave them. Not even an "I love you" before they each died...their shame in front of their country club friends was too much for them to bear, so I was basically kicked to the curb. Maybe that's why I love my wife & kids so much!

Need to change my clock in the Civic tomorrow...hope y'all didn't forget to do that in your rides.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

anonymousposts

My opinion, any one who works and loves and provides for their children deserve all the respect they can receive. Money and a "respectable" job can't buy you happiness. Some of the happiest people I know are blue collar workers who are content with their family and simple pleasures.

Now that we bought the VW, it's time to sell the Hyundai. Will be taking it down tomorrow to do the paperwork, nice car but can't say we will miss it all that much.

qbrozen

Strangely, I'd compare the Nissan to the VW GTI I drove a couple of months ago - 4 door hatches with small turbo engines. The Nissan is a CUV-wannabe, with slightly higher ground clearance, while the GTI is a proto-typical hot hatch.

I don't think it is strange at all. I was waiting for the Juke to release before my last purchase. Over on the Juke board, I was making this very comparison as I was shopping. The GTI is faster, handles better, and even has more interior space. Due to all of that, Nissan needed to price the Juke reasonably to have a shot at competing. My guesstimate was $18k for a base model with a stick could make me a buyer. Then Nissan released the pricing and I immediately turned my sights to the GTI instead.

oldfarmer50

Got the 411 on that 2004 Z4 for you. It's probably not what you'd want as it is only a 2.5L shiftable auto tranny 34K miles. Sports package, power top, heated seats, leather, No NAV.

The guy says he's asking $18K for it. Edmunds says a little over $14K.

If I wanted a stick I'd go for the other one I posted. Unless it's been raced a Z4 with only 16,000 miles sounds pretty sweet.

Hope this helps.

ateixeira

Nissan charges more for the Juke because they have to repair the eye sight of the buyer after the purchase is made in order for them to be able to drive.

nyccarguy

qbrozen & michaell, I know you guys both own GTIs & BMWs. What do you guys (or anybody else who's driven a GTI) think of the cars overall? Do they really drive like "FWD BMW Hatchbacks?"

Sandman6472

Where are y'all taking it to? The dealer? Think y'all will love the VW as it's a great small ute to get around with...again, a perfect ride for me if I were in the market. But just drove the Civic for the 1st time in about a week, and it's the perfect car for my needs...somewhat comfortable, my Relax The Back cushion I sit on makes all the difference, fun to drive, enough power for me & decent mpg's, better than both the Accent & the Versa! Who could ask for anything more? But the wife's convinced that I'm gonna spend the money I'm coming into very soon to buy my "dream car". She forgets that she taught me to be financially smart with whatever I, we buy. The looking I'm doing is strictly for her. I'm even getting all four cars detailed this week as a gift to us all since it's been a year since it's been done. I found a great detailer in a supermarket parking lot who made me a deal for $40 bucks/car instead of his usual $55 rate and they do a bang up job even using q tips and all...I was quite impressed last year and we're getting the same deal again.

This morning at the drug store, did see a Focus SEL hatch in a dark gray flecked paint that was really nice looking with the 17" alloys...I walked over to check! Preferred the aqua colored one I saw at the dealer with the 16" alloys much better though it had the lighter stone interior...we prefer gray interiors usually. But, it's a nice piece of metal and beats the sedan version in the looks department. I still think she'd like it a lot and hopefully any 1st year "quirks" will be taken care of for 2013.

Interested to see what the 2012 Mazda3 with the SkyActive engine will be like. Doubt she'd get the "S" model again, as it is a bit pricey now, not like the $17k we paid for ours back in '05. Think the "I Touring" model would fit the bill nicely. It's just that I'd think she'd want a different car for the next 6 or so years that we'll keep it for, G-d willing! Personally, I'd switch brands this time but it's totally up to her. The dash is...spartan and totally devoid of any character like the Elantra or the Jetta has...just a boring interior and the S alloys are soooo much nicer looking. But again...her choice. I think the wild card here will be the Elantra and how well it drives. She already likes it's looks and if it drives as easily as her S model does, it'll be a shoe in as she absolutely loves the way her Mazda drives and how easily she can park it..."it's just perfect" as she says. So if the Elantra or the Focus is just as good or better, that'll be her choice. And I'll be happy with whatever she decides to buy.

I agree with the Juke versus GTI or Rabbit for that matter. Though a nice ride, a bit pricey is what I thought to when I saw the sticker last week. Don't mind the exterior at all and the interior I'd give an 8 out of 10...VW just does an interior better hands down...Nissan should look at their competitors dash's as most of their current layouts are just...BORING!!! Nissan really needs to step up and make cars that people really want to buy...get Hyundai's playbook and follow it. No Nissan product really excites me right now. Hopefully the new Sentra will do what Honda failed to do with it's Civic...produce a car the public will line up for...again, like Hyundai did with the Elantra. Boring in this segment won't do anymore...hopefully Toyota is listening also!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

michaellno

qbrozen & michaell, I know you guys both own GTIs & BMWs. What do you guys (or anybody else who's driven a GTI) think of the cars overall? Do they really drive like "FWD BMW Hatchbacks?"

I wish!! The only German car I've had was the '99 New Beetle.

I've test driven the following:

GTI 2-door stick
128i automatic
328i coupe stick

None of the test drives were on the same roads, so it's hard to do an 'apples to apples' comparison of the three. I suspect, however, that the inherent differences between FWD and RWD vehicles with respect to handling will be present, regardless of how sporty the car is tuned.

I'll defer to q, who owns a GTI and has probably spent more time behind the wheel of BMW's.

EDIT: you must be thinking of breld, who owns both a GTI and 1 or 2 BMW's. We're both in Colorado, that must be the source of your confusion.

nyccarguy

Breld - that's it! Sorry to get you Colorado guys confused!

michaellno

Sorry to get you Colorado guys confused!

Yeah, we all look alike - flannel shirts, long beards, hiking boots, toting a bicycle on our cars in the summer, and skis or a snowboard in the winter.

Sheesh - to be generalized in such a manner.

:P

benjaminh

One of the neat features of my 2008 Accord EXL Navi is that the clock is always accurate and sets itself. No kidding. When I bought it I looked for the buttons to change the hour and minute, but they don't exist on this model. And when you're driving from one time zone to another it automatically changes itself...gets the time by radio from the satellites or some atomic clock somewhere, I guess. My Accord still seems like science fiction to me....Wonder what the all new 2013 Accords will be like? But given that manuals are no longer offered on the high end models I won't be tempted. Good thing, I suppose...it will keep me from being a chronic car buyer. Maybe if you get the exact car you want, even if you pay a bit more for it, you're probably likely to keep it for years longer and save money in the long run.

fezo

Yeah, we all look alike - flannel shirts, long beards, hiking boots, toting a bicycle on our cars in the summer, and skis or a snowboard in the winter.

And you should be driving a Subaru....

I was waiting for your reaction knowing you weren't the GTI and BMW guy - for now anyway....

qbrozen

FWD BMW hatchback? Huh, kind of a weird assessment, IMHO. I mean, that's like saying my wife is a shorter, darker-haired, and less endowed Scarlet Johannsen. How much do you take away from something before it is no longer that thing?

Anyhoo, the GTI is lighter, more nimble, and easier to drive. The "quiet and solid" factor are pretty darned close .... keep in mind, however, my BMW is almost twice as old and twice as miled up as my VW. You see more of a difference the faster you go, though. Drive over 100mph in the VW and you feel every bit of it. Do that in the bimmer and it is eerily stable and composed. It actually feels more stable at triple digits than it does at 75mph ... kind of like it is bearing down.

The VW is definitely Germanic, but is it a BMW? No. There is a reason why bimmers are more expensive. It is in the materials and the build quality. A VW door does not shut like a bimmer door. You can feel the lightness in everything. I'm not saying that's bad. I appreciate the car being lighter. It just is what it is.

I enjoy them for different reasons. And, if someone said "you can only keep one car that you currently own. Which will it be?" I'm picking the VW.

kyfdx

So... how bout a picture of the wife? (lol.. just kidding)

roadburner

The VW is definitely Germanic, but is it a BMW? No. There is a reason why bimmers are more expensive. It is in the materials and the build quality. A VW door does not shut like a bimmer door. You can feel the lightness in everything. I'm not saying that's bad. I appreciate the car being lighter. It just is what it is.

That's the same way I feel about my MS3; it's fun in its own way, but I still prefer RWD driving dynamics.

nyccarguy

I feel the same way about my 2010 Acura TSX. I love the engine. It has the best auto tranny I've ever driven. Seats are comfortable & thickly bolstered... Drives great, but it's not RWD & not a BMW.

michaellno

And you should be driving a Subaru....

Yeah, that's part of the stereotype, too, I suppose.

It's funny, when I think about all the cars in my neighborhood, I don't believe there is one Subaru in the bunch. Next door is a Kia Sedona & Hyundai Sonata, on the other side is a Honda Civic coupe and a Jeep Wrangler. Across the street are a pair of Toyotas (Corolla & Yaris), an Accord and an older Grand Am. Down the block are more Hondas (Pilot & Civic coupe), Nissan Xterra (x2), another Wrangler, Ram pickup and a Mustang 'vert. Miata, Grand Cherokee, a pair of Suzukis (SX4 and XL7), Passat 4Motion.

But no Subarus.

q - nice comparison of the GTI and BMW. The only car I've gotten up to that speed was my '03 Saturn L300 - I hit 90-95 on a stretch of two lane in the middle of Colorado. Felt pretty OK to me at that speed, but I'm sure the BMW would be more composed.

Sandman6472

So I'm assuming that BMW...and possibly MB are the "gold standards" for the best in auto driving fun. At least for what the common person could afford. Am I correct here? Since I've never driven a BMW, I have to listen to y'all who have them. But one things for sure, when the wife and I go looking at the 3 Series, I'm gonna get behind the wheel and see what the fuss is all about. I know that their interiors, BMW & MB, are top notch, and I have driven a C Class before, which was killer. So I'll have to see for myself.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

qbrozen

As for fun, I don't find MB to be up there. And, honestly, there are plenty of other cars that just fit the "fun" factor moreso than BMW. A 370z, for instance, or even a Miata. It is the balance of fun, composure, comfort, and all-around driving experience that people fuss about on the bmw.

Now, I have to confess, I have NOT driven any of the new models. My experience is with older models. IIRC, a 2004 330i coupe is the newest BMW I've ever driven, and my 2000 540i is the newest I've ever driven for an extended period of time.

Sandman6472

We also have an interesting mix of autos on our small street. We have a Versa, Accent, Mazda3 and a Civic...all sedans. There's also a Chevy Trailblazer and a Chevy Silverado, a Ford Freestyle wagon and a Mustang convert, a G37 and a Volvo C60, a Ford Excursion and a F-150, another Mustang, Fusion and a Nissan Armada sport ute, a Malibu, a Dodge Ram, a Dodge Caliber and a Jeep Liberty, a Ford Escape and a Dodge Charger ending with a Ford Edge and a newer F-150. A nice mix with American brands being dominate at this period in time. The mix used to be heavily foreign for many years but Chevy and Ford have made a comeback. Only 1 Honda product and no Toyota's which is interesting as at one time, there were multiples of each of these brands. And really surprising is no BMW's or MB's...yet our development has multiples of these 2 brands also. And I live in a middle class suburban city where most of the folks work except my neighbor & myself who have retired. An interesting mix to be sure but it does say something about how the American makers have improved their products and that people do want to own them now. Of course, this is just a small sample but overall, South Florida is a automobile mecca as the public transportation is lousy and folks need a car. Think we're 2nd behind California in our love for everything automotive and driving around, the numbers of BMW's and MB's are right up there. See them everywhere, just not on my street!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

roadburner

But one things for sure, when the wife and I go looking at the 3 Series, I'm gonna get behind the wheel and see what the fuss is all about.

I think that BMWs tend to combine comfort and performance in a way that most automakers have yet to match. That said, there are a lot of nice RWD sport coupes and sedans that are also fun and comfortable to drive.

isellhondas

If you ever want to see Subarus en masse just go to Boulder sometime.

I had NO IDEA!

stever

Seriously?

I saw my first Subarus in Evergreen Colorado in the early 70s. Two of them. Both in the same driveway. They were so narrow, I don't think they held five passengers. The owners swore by them and loved showing them off. I remember the spare in the engine compartment.

michaellno

If you ever want to see Subarus en masse just go to Boulder sometime.

I had NO IDEA!

Yep, Boulder seems to have a very high concentration of Subies.

However, the largest Subaru dealer west of the Mississippi is in Colorado Springs (so I've heard).

I did have a Subaru briefly. When my FIL passed he owned a '92 Legacy wagon that I drove for a few months before giving it to my son as a HS graduation gift. He drove it for a year or so before selling it to a friend - who promptly loaned it to her boyfriend and he totaled it.

Sigh - wish I still had it. Would have made an awesome pizza delivery vehicle, what with the AWD.

Sandman6472

I see some down here in South Florida...guess folks like 'em for the heavy rains we do get sometimes. Do like some of them actually, just wish the awd wouldn't be so bad on the mpg's. The extra ground clearance is nice which must mean the seating position is a little higher, something I'd kill for.

My detail guy just left after doing the kids cars...he's real good and they both look brand new now. Will be doing mine & the wife's on Friday...didn't want him to get to tired out as that's when folks get slightly sloppy. We were the 1st customers today and ditto for Friday. He even commented on how well we keep the cars looking...and he's right. I expect the Civic, Accent & Versa to be around a real long time so keeping them up on the inside and outside is just part of that along with maintaining them properly. The kids all know that their next new cars are strictly on their dime...I'm done with that!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

fintail

I think I saw about 4 of them in GA. Probably as many in my parking garage. Seattle is Subie land too.

breld

EDIT: you must be thinking of breld, who owns both a GTI and 1 or 2 BMW's. We're both in Colorado, that must be the source of your confusion.

Yup, that's me. We just recently purchased the GTI, as well as the 2002 530i (so a couple cylinders short of mimicing Q ). We also have a newer 328xi and the 1995 318ti (which is still waiting for a new owner).

I think q's assessment regarding the GTI versus the BMWs is spot on. I've been spending most of my time in the 530i recently and prefer the more substantial feel, RWD dynamics and power delivery of that engine. But over this past weekend, we mostly drove around in the GTI, which is a fun contrast, with the lighter feel and the "kick-in-the-pants" sensation from the turbo.

Like Q said, if I had to pick one car, the GTI is hard to beat with such a great package overall, from a practicality and fun-to-drive perspective. In fact, the GTI was to have been my fun daily driver, if not for the 530i I found and couldn't resist. Since I got that 530i, my wife has taken on the GTI as her daily driver. She absolutely loves it. The fact that her 328xi is an automatic probably has a lot to do with it though (other than the SUV family hauler, it's the only automatic in our garage).

That 328xi has become somewhat redundant, but I think we'll hold onto it for awhile. I suppose it's nice to have the choice of the automatic trannie on some days.

nyccarguy

The Gold Standard depends where you are coming from. I'd give that title to Porsche & BMW.

As with all other vehicles out there, BMWs have gotten bigger & heavier over the years. Put a BMW up against any car in its class & I'll take it.

We had the pleasure of leasing a 2007 BMW X3 from July 2007 & July 2010. It was so much fun to drive. It had more punch than my 2001 Honda Prelude and took corners at damn near the same speed. Mind you my Prelude is a 3000 lb sports coupe and the X3 is a 4000 something pound, AWD, SUV. The only thing I regret about the lease is turning it back in.

I've only owned new cars as my daily drivers since I was 16. I love the way BMWs drive so much that I'd consider buying a used (CPO) one that's older than my 2010 Acura TSX and financing it if the perfect one came along.

My love for Porsches was cemented once again earlier this afternoon when a customer let me drive the '11 Boxster (PDK) he just picked up from one of the lease swapping websites. WOW! The balance of the car is simply incredible. I seriously MUST own one of these.

stever

It's so much fun making the checkbooks out there hum. :shades:

Configurate It: 2012 Porsche 911

isellhondas

Are you serious?

Do you really think an X3 could whip a Prelude in a drag race?

ateixeira

$645 floor mats.

That's about what I paid for my first car.

$1635 to paint the wheels black.

$335 to paint your key.

$1710 to paint the air vent slats?

Some options costs are looney tunes.

tjc78

It would certainly be interesting.

2000 Prelude 6.8
2007 X3 7.2

One thing is for sure a bone stock V6 Camry would smoke it.