Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

Altima all the way. I like this color green and the 4cyl should net you some good mpg!

qbrozen

I'm not sure why the 4.0 was replaced with the 3.6. I mean, it is a very very slight step up ... certainly not worth the effort, IMHO. So its 30 more hp, but at 400 higher rpms. Torque is almost identical, but comes in at 200 lower revs with the 4.0. Gas mileage is barely better (I believe 1 mpg combined improvement).

I never drove the competitors, personally. My wife checked them out and she felt the T&C offered more luxury, ammenities, and utility. I drove 2 Routans, 1 with the 3.8 and one with the 4.0, after which I made my one bit of input into the decision which was that I really wanted the 4.0. I never even drove the T&C we [she] wound up buying.

oldfarmer50

At my school they have two Chrysler vans used as school buses which the drivers fight over. They are considered status symbols.

Which of course means exactly nothing.

qbrozen

I don't know what the book says, but I looked up the Maheim results for him. They are going for $25k and up.

fezo

Indeed. She has told me that I can never change the plate. Good kid!

andre1969

I'm not sure why the 4.0 was replaced with the 3.6. I mean, it is a very very slight step up ... certainly not worth the effort, IMHO.

I think that whole engine family went away. IIRC, the 4.0 was an enlargement of the 3.5 SOHC V-6, which itself was a conversion of the old 3.3/3.8 pushrod V-6es that dated back to the likes of the old Dynasty/New Yorker. There was also a short-lived 3.2 SOHC version that went into 1998-01 Intrepids and Concordes, but was phased out for '02 and replaced by a slightly de-tuned 3.5.

Chrysler's probably getting some kind of economy of scale by just replacing EVERYTHING with that new 3.6 engine. Compared to the 4.0, there probably isn't much difference, but I'm sure that compared to the 3.5 and the old 3.3/3.8 pushrods, there's a pretty noticeable difference.

FWIW, they also replaced the 2.7 DOHC, which was VERY expensive to manufacture, sludge-prone, and so expensive to replace that it was often cheaper to make the necessary mods and just replace it with a 3.2/3.5.

I think the only Mopar V-6 that the 3.6 didn't replace was the 3.7 90-degree SOHC that's still in the Ram. It's essentially a 4.7 V-8 with two cylinders lopped off...the old fashioned domestic way of making a V-6. I imagine that as long as the 4.7 is still around, it's probably cheaper for them to just use that 3.7, rather than make the 3.6 fit under the hood of a Ram.

breld

Your trade is the problem. These go for thousands of dollars "back of book" at tha auctions. Not bad cars but VERY soft like any Mazda as used cars.

You can always try to sell it yourself but I don't think you'll like the results.

The dealers simply don't want it.

Hmm - thanks for the feedback. So, when I do get a solid trade offer (like the $23k from the Lexus dealer), I shouldn't snub my nose at it, huh (which I wasn't)? I've given some thought to selling it privately, just to take that part out of the equation. But it's a bit hard to go through that process when it doesn't seem it will net much benefit over some of these trade offers.

breld

Well, with so many Odys out there, many of which would meet my needs nicely, I thought of this approach, just to "normalize" all the different deals I'm considering:

I'd like to offer KBB clean trade plus $2,500 for their Ody, and target KBB clean trade for my CX-9. Understanding the worth of the values at KBB, I figured using the same source for both sides of the transaction provides a reasonable starting point for a "difference" number (which, of course, is all that matters).

'Cause, within a certain budget range, I'm not necessarily looking for the "cheapest" deal, I'm looking for the "best" deal.

Also, with this approach, I don't have to bother qbrozen and the rest of you with the details of every deal I'm looking at .

qbrozen

I think that whole engine family went away. IIRC, the 4.0 was an enlargement of the 3.5 SOHC V-6, which itself was a conversion of the old 3.3/3.8 pushrod V-6es that dated back to the likes of the old Dynasty/New Yorker.

Was it really? I had convinced myself the 3.5 was from Benz, given that it was such a huge step forward from the 3.8 and had similar power output to the Benz 3.5.

I liked the 3.5 HO that was in our Pacifica, but being coupled to the old 4-speed auto really killed it.

EDIT: I just looked up what Wiki has, and they don't claim any relation to the 3.8. link

breld

Quick story about my experience yesterday:

Wednesday night, I saw a newly listed Ody online at a Kia dealership out in the boonies of the Denver metro area. A 2007 Touring model w/Nav & RES, 58k miles, listed at $16,500. With what seemed to be an unusually low price, I almost dismissed it, but thought I may as well check it out.

Got there first thing yesterday morning - the dealership is little more than a trailer right now (they're getting a new showroom built soon). Checked out the Ody - hadn't been detailed yet and it was as filthy as can be (hard to believe people trade their cars in like that, but that's me), but I could see through the dirt and figured it could all be cleaned up. It drove nicely and had a clean carfax.

I was real upfront with them, saying I was considering this other deal at "a Lexus" dealership, but would rather have their car for a similar deal to what I had there. Well, they stuck with their $17k price (including their $500 D&H), and offered $19k for the Mazda, so a $2k difference. The deal on the table at the Lexus dealer is a $4k difference (for a very similar car), so I said as much and the manager said I should take that deal and thanked me for stopping by.

Last night, that Kia dealership's listing had been updated with a listed price of $19,995 - exactly the listed price for the other Ody at the Lexus dealership. Hard to believe they don't perform their own competitive price check, but seems like I helped them out with that.

andre1969

EDIT: I just looked up what Wiki has, and they don't claim any relation to the 3.8. link

Actually, in a roundabout sort of way, it does. There's a link towards the beginning of that page for the 3.3, and if you click on it it goes here.

To make the 3.8, they both bored and stroked the 3.3. To get the 3.5 SOHC, it looks like they kept the shorter stroke of the 3.3, but used the bore of the 3.8.

stever

Pardon the interuption but if you know someone who fits this description, perhaps someone you've helped kick tires, let us know.

A reporter is looking to speak with someone who bought a new Honda or Toyota within the last two months. Specifically, he’s most interested in speaking with someone who intentionally held off on buying one of these vehicles last year because the dealer did not have it in stock. If you meet this criteria, please send a brief description of your experience and your contact info to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Wednesday, February 29, 2012.

thanks!

isellhondas

Nothing wrong with Mazdas but for some reason, they are always "soft" in the market. Our UCM used to go to the auctions and cherry pick through the lease returns. He would be able to buy them for quite a bit "back of book".

We would sell them for thousands of dollars less than a similar Honda. A lot of customers wold jump on them realizing they were a lot of car for the money.

Nissan products fared about the same especially Infinitis.

If you do get a high offer make sure they aren't simply holding up the price of the car you are buying.

isellhondas

I realize I've been out of it for awhile BUT 16,500 sounds WAY too cheap for a 2007 Touring with decent miles!

Showing an undetailed car is always a HUGE, HUGE mistake! Most people can't see through the dirt and will asume the car has had a rough life.

I know I can be cynical but I'm thinking they did that on purpose. They lowballed the price of that car thinking people wold be turned off my it's undetailed conditon and be able to be switched to a different and more profitable car. Some stores will do that. They just hope like hell the people who look at the underpriced car don't buy it!

You probably should have jumped on it but who knows?

stickguy

they made up for it by undervaluing his trade in. so the obvious answer was, snag the Ody for cash, and sell the mazda elsewhere!

qbrozen

Interesting. Gotta wonder why they made the 3.5 at all and how it surpassed the 3.8 in refinement and power.

qbrozen

Yup. That probably would have been the way to go.

You know, in case you are interested, autotrader now has an option where it will give you a cash value for your car and local places who will buy it for that price. The couple of times I tried it while shopping, the number it gave me was pretty much spot on with Galves.

EDIT: This looks a bit different than I remember, but hope it works the same.

akangl

We've had the F-150 for 9 months and 15k miles, the Civic for 3 years 4 months and 95k miles, and the Escort for 1 year and 5k miles. Let's see, in that time we've spent nothing on oil changes for the F-150 since the dealer paid for both and nothing for repairs, but its had its fair share, goes back in the shop on Monday for more issues. Not sure how long it will be gone this time, more 4WD and tranny issues, among other things.

The Civic has cost us about $600 in oil changes and a battery, it has a $400 service coming up at 100k, of course that doesn't count the 2 full sets of tires its gone through, the 3rd set should last it until fall when it will get a new winter set and its first alignment. Its never had a mechanical repair, the extended warranty appears to have been a waste of money, although its still valid until 120k miles.

Now the Escort, yes, the dear Escort.....$1534 for timing belt, water pump, head gasket, machining the head, oil change, coolant flush, thermostat, and tire change, $400 for master cylinder, oil change, and serpentine belt. Still have to fix the gas gauge, a/c, and put new summer tires on it. Not to mention nobody has found the missing coolant. All and all, its still a super reliable little car and the kid likes it, even more since I put a new stereo in it for him at Christmas time.

If the Escort leaves with the kid this summer I can see me getting the urge to buy something.....my eyes are already starting to wander.....

breld

Well, went over lunch for the minivan shopping and have two deals that I'm having a hard time deciding between:

The Chevy dealer stepped up to my offer "formula", so they'd sell the their '08 Ody EX-L RES (47k miles) for $21,072, and give $23,721 for my car, so a $2,649 difference to me. This is a white one with beige leather.

I'm really taken with an '09 EX-L RES w/45k miles at an Infiniti dealership. It's in really nice condition, with brand new tires and, frankly, I like the color better (it's the medium blue with gray interior). For this one, they'll take my car PLUS $900. I was hoping for a straight swap, but am really considering doing this deal.

So, by my pricing approach, this second one is about $1,200 higher than I targeted, and about $3,500 higher than the other '08.

Basically, I'm just struggling with whether the one year newer model in my color of choice is worth that $3,500.

Aaargh! :confuse: A month from now, will I wish I had the blue, or would I wish I had the $3,500?

fezo

I'm gonna say you'd wish you had blue.

My theory goes to never buy a color you don't like. You'll think about that decision with regret more so than the money because it will be there in front of you every day.

breld

Thanks for the feedback. I'm kinda thinking the same thing, and my wife is pushing me that way too.

What I'm trying to tell myself is that a decent portion of that $3,500 difference will be "recovered" some day through the residual value ('09 versus '08). Also, the Infiniti dealer put four brand new tires on the van, so that's certainly worth something too.

stever

The only deal killer for me would be black, and even then I could make an exception for the right car. But on a minivan? I like my silver but it'd be (almost) okay if it was that old Plymouth Voyager eggplant color.

Blue is nice but white is fine too. Makes the vans look a bit smaller too.

I think my brother's 05 Odyssey is that off-beige or off-green. Not even sure; whatever it is, it's not offensive.

fezo

White minivans look like refrigerators with wheels.....

stever

And you're saying my silver one doesn't?



(I can't shop in wheels and a 666 license plate like Andre could).

fezo

Is that picture your refrigerator or your van?

I had a silver van for several years.... Guilty as charged. I still think white looks even more so.

My brother had a Volvo 240 wagon in white for years. Another appliance special. If it were a 70s model it would have come in avocado or harvest gold....

stever

Could be worse - could be a tan GM van. Would look just like a Dustbuster.

Shifty posted a classic white Volvo frig with a sunroof back when Separated At Birth? was active.

isellhondas

Exactly! That Odyssey would have been a great cash deal. No trade.

isellhondas

Except...they may or may not buy cars for that price. If the car is a roach or it has needs, yoju can bet the offer will be way less and for good reason!

breld

Yeah, I certainly gave some thought to just buying the $16,500 Odyssey and dealing with selling the mazda. But one, I had other compelling deals with which I could simply trade, and two, I didn't get the greatest feeling from this dealership - like "if it seems too good to be true..."

In any case, we bought the blue 09 EX-L RES. Basically gave them the CX-9 plus $900 for their Odyssey.

Thanks for all the advice and enduring my minivan saga!

qbrozen

well of course if your trade didn't match to what you enter on the online form, they have good reason to reduce the offer.

qbrozen

Congrats. I'm with fezo; I hate white minivans (and most SUVs).

nyccarguy

Congrats breld. Enjoy your new ride.

lancerfixer

Don't post for several years, come back, and all the usual suspects are hanging out!

How is everyone?

isellhondas

Lance...is it REALLY you???

Actually, almost every one from the "old days" is gone now.

The MTC is still alive! Come visit!

lancerfixer

How's it going?!

Yeah, I'll find my way back over to the mountain...I've got nothing to add here! (I've still got the '98 Volvo...152,000 miles and no rational reason to get rid of it. We DID replace Mrs. Lance's S80 with a Ford Flex, though...love that car.)

rayainsw

'..no rational reason to get rid of it.'
Um - sure you have the right forum?
- Ray
Just kidding.......

fezo

Hey, lance! Great to see you again!

Bruce - way to go! You made the right choice.

corvette

Welcome back!

What model is your 1998 Volvo? Most people here have been through several cars since you were last here, so we need something to jog our memory.

roadburner

Good to see you lance!!!

roadburner

1988 M3

lancerfixer

Hey, corvette- It's an S70 GLT. Still runs showroom new, and not a spot of rust on it. Frankly it's far and away the best car I've ever owned-- I'm just getting sick of driving it! I've got the bug to buy something else (I've been salivating over e38 BMWs of late, but that would be, um, financially foolhardy.)

Still...what a ride that would be (when it was working!)

nyccarguy

Why is it so cheap Roadburner?

oldfarmer50

"... Why so cheap..."

I thought it was pretty cool until I saw the price too. I guess when you're in love money doesn't matter.

fintail

Mm cool colors and commendable cleanliness. Prices are always a little negotiable, and I can find worse ways to blow that kind of money. Those are at the bottom of their depreciation curve now, I think.

roadburner

Why is it so cheap Roadburner?

I don't know; maybe the miles. You'll pay $25K and up for an immaculate one with low miles. In any case, you wouldn't lose any money on this one if you maintained it properly.

gouldn

"2/24/25/2012 Update: This BMW has been sold, just 15 hours after the listing here on BaT. Stay tuned for more BaT Exclusives!"

Was it you?

roadburner

Was it you?

I wish!
Last night a friend -and fellow BMW CCA member- sends me a picture of the CPO 2011 135i he just brought home; Alpine White/Coral Red, M Sport, stick, CWP, PP, navigation...
I HATE him.
:P

fintail

Friend of mine is car shopping. His current ride is an 03 Accord V6 coupe he bought new. It's up at something like 180K now and he thinks it is getting tired - just had some electrical issue related to the battery connection, steering needs work (leaking I think), and it has required age related maintenance lately. He's thinking now might be the time to sell rather than have it become worth even less, but I tell him that damage is already done. This was a car that had a warranty transmission replacement at ~70K. Anyway, his tastes are all over the map, from Focus to Civic to Scion tC to a used CC and used Camry hybrid. He tested a Corolla and hated it, told me he more or less laughed at the dealer. He's looking to spend in the low 20s. I recommended a skyactiv 3 to him or a Subaru for resale value, but he's in GA and apparently dealers for those aren't everywhere. He bought the Accord on impulse, so he might end up with something at any time. I don't know what else to recommend, maybe he could get a deal on a Cobalt or shop an Elantra.

This made me come down with a little bit of car itch as I've had my modern car since 06 - but whenever I see payments, I back off.

isellhondas

A battery connection?? A five minute fis and the PS problem probably isn't a big deal. You friend is grabbing at excuses to get another car.

Yeah, the damage is done. It's a coupe for one thing and the 180,000 miles will make it saleproof. He should fix it and drive it into the ground.

But, I know better. That won't happen.

fintail

Not a simple battery cable, but something where the cables connect to the electrical system or similar - he didn't give me details off the repair invoice, but it was odd. He claimed now and then his dash lights would go dead for a moment and the car would lag. The shop was able to duplicate it. It was a $250 repair.

I've told him to drive it til it dies, which with a Honda V6 automatic could be anytime :shades: ...but yes, he's already made up his mind. He's not a chronic buyer, but he could call me at any time and tell me about a left field purchase. He was shopping for a 94-96 Impala SS when he bought the Accord.