Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ateixeira

You are definitely in the right thread. But don't expect an intervention, your CCB will only get worse here.

OK, so you're bored with a 528i, can I ask why? Bored driving a capable car in slow traffic, or do you want even more capability?

I ask because a lot of the alternatives you mention are likely more boring than what you have now, save for a properly equipped A4 or 3 series.

Unless you'd prefer to drive a slow car fast?

qbrozen

So, all I have to do is make 4 payments, then pay it off, and they're satisfied. APR is 3.99%. My HELOC is only 3.5%, but I can write that off on my taxes, so it's really more like 2.4%.

Watch it, now. The tax law allows that interest to be written off only if the prinicpal was used to upgrade your primary residence.

isellhondas

A lot more horses to be sure but in a quarter mile run the V-6 doesn't beat the 4 cyl by as much as you would expect.

If you really think you need that much more power than the V-6 is the way to go. for myself, the 4 cylinder is more than adequate.

But...that's me. I don't pass people on two lane highways or live in Denver where the thin air saps power.

ateixeira

People forget how much bang for the buck you can get with a pickup. Just over $17k for a Hemi V8? Wow....

Just think, for about $3000 more you could have gotten a base Prius C with no options.

ateixeira

only if the prinicpal was used to upgrade your primary residence

Parking the Ram outside does make the house look better.

andre1969

Parking the Ram outside does make the house look better.

Funny, I was just about to say that! Plus, if I drive it to Home Depot a few times and buy something for the house, does that count as upgrading the primary residence?

andre1969

I think one area where you'll really notice the difference in a V-6 versus a 4-cyl is if you regularly have several passengers.

And, there's just something about the effortlessness that a V-6 goes about its business. Often with the 4-cyl you have to really floor it and wind the snot out of them to get good acceleration, whereas with the V-6 you just tap it and go, without all that straining.

Although, if I was shopping for a modern midsized car, I'd probably be happy with most 4-cyl engines. And even with something like a Charger, I'm sure I'd be happy with the V-6 they use in it, versus the Hemi.

ateixeira

Towing and hauling, you want all the reserve power you can get.

For commuting and around town, smaller engines tend to be just fine.

rayainsw

................................................I4 .... V6
0-60 with 1 foot of rollout (sec.) .. 7.5 ... 6.1
1/4-mile (sec. @ mph) ..........15.8 @ 91.2... 14.3 @ 98.1
- Edmunds tests of 2013 Accords

ateixeira

Didn't the 4 cyl 6MT do it in 6.3s?

So get the manual, it virtually ties the V6, would have less weight over the front axle so probably handles and brakes better, too.

rayainsw

I have not seen a published test of the 2013 I4 6MT.
These sets of test #s are both for automatics,
and from the same source...

michaellno

Back in 2002, I was in the market for a new car.

At the time, I was pretty much focused on the following attributes:

Mid sized sedan
V6 w/ automatic transmission
Leather and sunroof

I looked at the following:

Nissan Altima
VW Passat
Honda Accord
Toyota Camry
Saturn L300

Ended up buying the Saturn as they were offering 0% financing (hey, who doesn't like free money?).

Why the V6? I wanted the smoothness of the 6-cyl engine. I had been driving 4-cylinder cars for some time ('98 VW New Beetle) and was tired of the buzzing at highway speeds. Fuel economy wasn't a priority at the time.

ateixeira

We shopped in 2005 and wanted a V6 manual. That really narrowed it down.

Ended up with a 626 ES V6. A Probe sedan, sorta.

jayrider

The Camcord 4 cylinder drive trains are pretty smooth. Not like the old days. Getting what you like is the most important thing .

isellhondas

I rest my case.

For the extra cost and fuel costs, I see no real use for the V-6 over the 4 cyl.

But, that's me!

isellhondas

It sounds like Honda is actually increasing the production of manual transmsision Accords and I can't understand why they would do this?

Every year I was in the business, I watched demand drop for sticks. They just didn't sell well.

Some very vocal people asked..." Why won't Honda build V-6 sedans with six speed manuals?"

So Honda did produce some. Without asking, they sent our store two of them.

We wer the highest volume Honda store in nine states and after a year, we still had both of them. One finally sold and we got rid of the other one on a dealer trade.

Honda has either lost their minds or else they know something I sure don't know.

ateixeira

Perhaps the new model is shifting to a more sporty target market?

Sporty side of mainstream, of course.

jayrider

My wife and I both drove sticks for years. My last one was sold in 2000. No more sticks for us though. Why ? One word. Arthritis.

mark156

Nice truck andre! I pulled up the Dodge Ram site and they are showing the ST and Tradesman with black grills, the Tradesman has the upgraded wheels like you have. Do you have the built-in tool box on the side of the bed? It looked like a standard item on the site.

Enjoy your new truck!
Mark156

michaellno

The Camcord 4 cylinder drive trains are pretty smooth. Not like the old days. Getting what you like is the most important thing .

10 years later, my priorities have shifted. I now work from home and use my car sparingly (local errand running and part time pizza delivery). My priorities now are good gas mileage and decent utility.

I have a crossover (2010 Mazda CX-7) that is used for family duty.

isellhondas

Well, maybe but I just don't see sticks selling any better than they do now.

Now, this is the Seattle market where we have a lot of traffic and hills. I'm sure sticks sell better in other parts of the country.

Still, not THAT much better I wouldn't think!

fezo

I'm one of those guys who for tears was saying "Where's the 6 cyl sedan with a stick?" When they came out I wasn't in the market and when I went looking later for a used one they were scarce as hens' teeth.

Such is life. They had a good reason for not offering them.

andre1969

Thanks Mark! Unfortunately, no tool-box on mine...I feel deprived now! Now that I think about it, my uncle was looking it over yesterday to see if it had a tool box, so maybe it's a common thing on Dodges? Or was, at least?

isellhondas

Oh, so you're one of the guys who pined for a V-6 sedan with a stick but somehow "weren't in the market" when Honda finally relented and against the advice of their dealers decided to build some.

Shame on you! :P

Yeah, they did have a "good reason" for not offering them....they don't sell!

Now, it looks like they didn't learn their lesson very well!

fezo

Oh, we've been through this a hundred times. I don't go into the market just because they make something cool. I've got four daughters to support.....

isellhondas

Oh, I know! We have just one son and that is bad enough!

It never ends.

fezo

Here's one within 75 miles of my house! It's in Bayonne. Swell.

isellhondas

You can always tell a 6 speed sedan from the rear because the V-6 emblem is red.

Looks like a BHPH Pot Lot but that doesn't make it a "bad" car. It would need an extreme looking over though.

WTH is that hanging on the rear bumper?

Now is your chance Steve!

fezo

Nah. I'm really attached to the convertible now - even though it's an automatic.

Funny thing that. Probably my two favorite cars were 6 cyl automatics but if you asked what I normally like I'd say 4 cyl sticks.....

isellhondas

I'm happy our BMW convertable is an automatic. The AT shifts at the right times and is very tight.

A guy in a turbo PT Cruiser tried beating me to a lane closure the other day.

He won't try again I don't think.

jayrider

You're lucky it wasn't me in my prius with the power mode engaged. :shades:

fezo

When I was 17 my dad realized over that summer we'd be a two car family with four drivers so he bought this old 56 ( think) Crown Vic with a Thunderbird V8 in it and basically told my brother and I to sort it out.

That car was your basic rocket in a plain brown wrapper.

I remember one evening stopping for a red light in an extremely familiar place next to some guy a Mustang. He starts revving his engine in a "watch me leave you in the dust" mode. Well, being me I look over his car and figure there's no way this guy can beat me if I pay attention. So the second the light turned green I was off like a shot and he was none too happy. Started tailing me. I take a turn or two to make sure that he's indeed following me and drove into the next town where there were loads of little streets to lose him and did so.

Good thing he wasn't better at following because my next step would be to drive to the police station which might have kept my body in one piece but hardly seemed like a good idea under the circumstances.

This is a real rarity. It's not every day I have a racing story.

jayrider

The 289 v8 mustang was no rocket but folks who had them thought they were until they got smoked. Then they got pissed.

isellhondas

Oh, don't be too sure of that.

The 271 HP high performance 289 that was available in 1965 Mustangs were a handful to beat!

rayainsw

..and compare to V6 M6

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1209_2013_honda_accord_first_test/vie- wall.html#ixzz27QVPn4za

roadburner

Congrats, Andre!!!

roadburner

You are bored with a loaded 2012 528i?!? Sorry to say it, but I think you are a little bit crazy? Maybe you should drive a little faster around the corners??

Have you driven an F10 528i? I got one for a loaner and this is what I wrote about it:

I absolutely despise the steering- it is so devoid of feel that it belongs in a Buick or Lexus. And the sled is also quite porky, of course.
My 1975 2002 and 1995 Club Sport 3er are exponentially more fun to drive than this bloated 5er.

My wife's response?

"It's a boat; I want my X3 back."

These comments come from a couple that have owned 10 Bimmers over the last 30 years- and currently have four in the garage.

Which is a roundabout way of saying, "Yes, the F10 528i IS boring."

tjc78

Maybe I'll have to try out a 528 porky with numb steering is usually my kind of car! :shades:

andres3

is that it has gotten too big and porky, heavy, 3.5L! They need to go back to the smaller and lighter 3.0 V6 VTEC and just fine tune that sucker to get more power and economy from it.

It was quick and powerful on its feet. I enjoyed that engine a lot in my '03 Accord LX V6 coupe. The 4 cylinder didn't do anything for me, then again, I wasn't going to put up with a stick in San Diego traffic.

jmcbmw

I say "bored" as the way it drives compared to my previous gen E60 is so different, less engaging, more artificial. Its very capable and I'm getting better mileage and like some of the new features I didn't have before. But they have really made the new 528i so artificial feeling. I had read this in reviews and such and drove the car and but it seemed fine. I was under pressure as my lease had only a few days left and I wasn't able to do all of the cross shopping and test driving as in the past. I mention the others as they are likely much less expensive and different. Thanks for listening!

benjaminh

No, I've never driven a bmw.... . I've been in them, but never at the wheel.

Sounds like they have messed up this generation.

corvette

LOL, wut? The 3.5 in the 2013 Accord gets 34 MPG highway, which is way higher than the EPA rating on the 3.0. I haven't driven a V6 Accord in recent memory, but that same engine is very capable in the Acura TL.

I don't think there are many who share this opinion, but I think Honda has stayed true to their roots as a "motor company." Their four cylinder engines are noticeably smoother than Toyota's or Nissan's.

In the long run, I think 3.0+ liter displacement family sedans and coupes are doomed. The EPA requirements, as well as market demand due to higher gas prices, will force a transition to smaller displacement turbo engines.

rayainsw

I thought one could [ in such a circumstance ]
if pressed for time,
extend a current BMW lease???
- Ray
Current BMW lease running out in a year, or so.....

jayrider

You've got me thinking, roadburner, maybe BMW is targeting rich retired teachers like me into trading in our Pruis's. :confuse:

andre1969

In the long run, I think 3.0+ liter displacement family sedans and coupes are doomed. The EPA requirements, as well as market demand due to higher gas prices, will force a transition to smaller displacement turbo engines.

Sadly, I think you're right, and it really is a shame, because the V-6 engines have gotten so powerful, yet are economical when they need to be. In many cases, the 4-cyl really doesn't save you that much fuel, anyway. For instance, with the Camry, according to the EPA's variables, the 4-cyl will cost around $2100 per year in fuel, compared to $2350 for the V-6.

With the Altima, the gap is a bit larger...$1900 for the 4-cyl, $2350 for the V-6. And the Accord is about the same: $1950 for the 4, $2350 for the V-6.

Over time, the 4-cyl engines will keep getting better and more powerful. But, I just worry about all that high-tech stuff as it ages. I guess if you buy new/newish and trade before it gets too old, that's no big deal. But I tend to keep cars until they die or get totaled.

andre1969

I know it's not supposed to be a sports car, but whenever I go to the auto shows, one of my favorite cars to sit in is the 7-Series. It's big, cushy, and luxurious...adjectives that you'd think would be more apropos to a late 60's Fleetwood 60-Special than a brand advertised as "The Ultimate Driving Machine" :P

tjc78

The 7 series is really nice inside. The owner of the company I work for has one and I've ridden in it a few times. Huge back seat, probably the biggest out in the marketplace (except for maybe a Town Car "L").

It rides very nice and technology everywhere. I guess for 100 large it should.

I actually preferred it to the S550 I rode in.

ateixeira

They say the I4 handles better, and I'm not surprised. Less weight over that front axle.

ateixeira

That's a real shame.

I took a short drive in a 535i, I think it was. Not a fan of the engine response, it hesitates before it really gets going. Then I drove a 550GT and all was forgiven, but the price tag started with a $7. :surprise:

It wasn't a long enough test drive to really sample the steering.

Oh well, there's always CPO. Also, when BMW errs, they usually address the issue within a model year or two.

breld

Aaaah, hearing all this makes my 530i that much more endearing. :P