Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

steine13

Variety is the spice of life!

... and excess is just barely enough.

I'd keep my Vibe for commuting.
And a Miata for fun.
And a fs shorty van for canoeing and travel up North.
And an '06 Accord Coupe for travel to Chicago and beyond.
And of course a pickup for the missus.
And a '94 Audi 100 quattro wagon, or whatever the last wagon with the inline 5 was. Ya know, for when it's cold.

I don't need a garage, I need a pole barn.
And a shrink...

-Mathias

kyfdx

So.... I read that the Vibe is for sale? Por quoi? Do you have your eye on something else?

nippononly

For me, the perfect situation would be a sporty fun car, a comfortable commuter, and a truck I could offroad in. But I only have two parking spaces in the complex where I live. So in the past I have compromised by making the sporty car my commuter also.

But I finally decided I wanted better gas mileage, lower insurance rates, and a bit more comfort for my commute, and I just couldn't bear not to have a truck, so the sporty car went in favor of a cheap-to-operate commuter.

Now with the resale dropping out of the truck market even more than it did last summer, and gas so expensive I hardly ever drive the truck, methinks I may have gone the wrong way on that decision! :-P

andre1969

I don't need a garage, I need a pole barn.
And a shrink...

Mathias, if you do decide on a pole barn, here's the url for the company that built mine.

Here's some pics of mine, in various stages of construction. It's finished now, except for painting, gutters, and hooking up the electric. They ran an underground line from the back of the garage to the house, so now I just need to get an electrician to come out one of these days and finish it off.

Originally I wanted to go with a loft, but the county struck me down because it would've exceeded their height requirement. But then, as soon as I had new plans for a building drawn up, minus the loft, they changed their standard. By that time I was too irritated to go back and change again, though. Probably a good thing too, because the money I saved losing the loft more than paid for all the gravel I had to bring in for that driveway, and other little unforseen things that popped up.

As for a shrink, can't help ya on that one. I tend to run the other way when I see the men in white with the big butterfly nets. :shades:

andre1969

Toyota's not subcontracting Tacoma production out to GM, are they? That drop in resale almost sounds GM-ish! :surprise:

The last time I really checked the value on my Intrepid was back in September '03. I had found a lower-mileage '02 R/T model that the dealer wanted $15999 on. At first, they offered me $3500 in trade for mine, which had about 86,000 miles on it at the time. They did come up to around $4800, which was what I owed on it at the time.

I don't even WANT to know what I'd get offered for it now, almost 3 years later, with 117,000 miles on it! :sick:

au1994

It's gotta be the soft market for trucks and SUV's. Terry, over on the trade in values board, gave me a figure of high 22's on my 04 4Runner SR5 V6 4WD, with only 12k miles. I'm upside down as well and accelerating payments so I can get out of it and into something with better MPG, but still have the utility. Thinking about a Forester or Outback. Hopefully I'll hit the wall on depreciation soon. Afterall it is still a low mileage Toyota, gas prices aside!!

Edit--Just checked KBB and the trade in on the 4Runner is now down to about 20k, so I've lost and other 2k form the January timeframe as well.

guss

I'll go along with your list and only substitute an MR2 for the Miata due to legroom constraints.

I passed a Fiat Spyder for sale in an office building parking lot with a big for sale sign in the front windshield and the top down. I had one about 15 years ago when it was relatively new. I can't imagine what the upkeep on one is now.

I have to admit though my steering wheel turned about 3 degrees to turn in and check it out. But it was rush hour and I did not want to deal with traffic getting out. So maybe I am getting cured.

Nah, if it is still there on my ride home today I am sure I will at least have to check it out and see what he's askin fer it.

nippononly

If the resale on trucks and SUVs (mine is a 4Runner SR5 V-6 4WD too, but the older generation before yours) continues to drop this fast, I will be upside down in this loan almost until I get it paid off! THAT'S a reversal on a Toyota truck - and they say gas prices aren't going to hurt truck and SUV sales! :sick:

I was intending to keep it anyway, and have only had second thoughts since gas prices went up even more than I thought they would. It's a nice truck. But I hate being upside down in a car loan. :-(

au1994

I'm right there with ya! Never though I'd be this upside down on a Toyota. Based on the numbers I had at the beginning of the year and paying extra every month, I thought I would be even or a little ahead by the end of the year, not any more.

This 4Runner replaced an Accord and I don't think I was ever upside down in that car.

With me, its not that I don't like the truck, I do, or that I can't afford the gas, I just don't WANT to afford the gas. I figured I was going to be able to ease into a Subaru with about the same payment and pick up 5-6 MPG.

Can you imagine the situation some folks might be in that have a 40k Tahoe????

qbrozen

what size did you get, andre?

the price is definitely right. I would need a floor, though, personally. But I suppose that shouldn't add too much to the price.

You can fit 4 cars in that thing? Pretty good. I actually think I might be able to get away with their smallest barn (24x32) since I'd only really want to fit 2 cars. Then again ... if you're gonna do it, do it right, right?

andre1969

I ended up getting a 24x40 building. The whole thing ended up running close to $28-30K I'm guessing, once it was all said and done. The pole barn company's part of it was around $15K. Mine ran more than what the online prices show because I got a regular roof with shingles and plywood (well, that pressed stuff actually) instead of a metal roof. Also, I think the T-111 siding was more expensive than metal siding, but I'm not sure. I also ended up getting 5 windows, one entry door, and two single garage doors, which ran the price up a bit. I can't remember how many of each they threw into the "base" package.

Then, the real fun part was dealing with the county. The pole barn company's plans for the foundation just included a footer pad that the poles would rest on, and compact fill, such as crushed gravel or something like that, around them. The county made me dig bigger holes, with wider, thicker footer pads, crushed gravel underneath the pads, and concrete instead of compacted fill around the poles.

Then there was the floor. I lost track of how many truckloads of gravel I had to have brought in, for both the driveway and under the concrete floor. They also found an underground spring about 30-40 feet out in front of the garage doors, so that had to get dug up, have some big rocks/recycled concrete/bricks/etc dumped down in, and then gravel put back over. I forget now how long the driveway extension ended up being, but the guy said he ran about 175 feet of cable from the garage to the house, so I'd guess the driveway was close to that as well.

To do the concrete floor in the garage, I think it took something like 14-15 cubic yards. And concrete ain't cheap these days.

I haven't gotten four cars in it yet, but for the time being have my '79 New Yorker (221.5") and my '76 LeMans (~208") on one side, one behind the other, and there's a few feet between the NYer and the garage door, and just enough room for me to squeeze between the two cars, and between the LeMans and the wall.

I have my '67 Catalina on the other side, by itself for now. I left my '57 DeSoto over at my grandmother's place, because I'm going to have a guy do some brake work on it. He recommended doing it over there, instead of having it bleed brake fluid all over my nice, new concrete floor.

If I had it to do over again, I think I would've tried to see if they could've built me a custom size, like 40x27 feet. Even though the cars fit in fine, that extra 3 feet would give me a bit more room on the sides for shelves, toolboxes, storage, etc, and still be able to swing the car doors fairly wide.

40x27 is the biggest they would let me go. They have this silly little ordinance that no secondary buildings can be larger than the primary. Well, my house really has about 1500 square feet, but they consider it a 1 1/2 story house, so they only count half of the square footage upstairs. And I have an enclosed room on one side that they don't count, either. So it's assessed at 1106 square feet.

I guess I shouldn't complain too much, though. At least that lower square foot assessment on the house keeps my property taxes a bit lower.

Oh well, I guess if I need more space, I can always build another one!

qbrozen

ouch! much more than i was thinking.

the standard sides and roof are metal? I certainly wouldn't figure that based on the pics on their website. Oh well.

woodyww

I owned a used 1986 Toyota P/U for 3 years starting around 1989. I got about 1/2 of what I paid when I sold it. (I only paid $4500, so I didn't lose too much in absolute $$).

My used '98 Range Rover--I ate about $10K between depreciation, & maintenence in one year. That hurt. (You can buy a reasonably decent used car for $10K!).

My current 2000 bmw 5-series has dropped about $5K in value, according to Edmunds, since I checked the prices last, probably last Summer or Fall. I'd hoped the depreciation would have leveled off some by then. It's a wagon, & gets 18mpg city & 23mpg hwy--I'm hoping that will help when I do sell someday.

Depreciation is one of the things that makes car owning such an expensive hobby. Add in sales tax, registration, excise tax, insurance, & maintenence & it can get pretty expensive to own more vehicles than you need (or even the vehicles you do need!).

Also, I'm not sure Toyotas always have the great resale value of Hondas???.....It may not just be gas prices hitting the value of your vehicle, 4Runners do depreciate.....

british_rover

Yeah Range Rovers our big ouches on depreciation.

I have a customer who wants to trade in his 2005 Westminster Range Rover.

He bought it used with about 4,500 miles on at another dealer in another state before he moved here.

He paid way, way, way too much for it. It was 85,000 new and he paid 81,000 for it about a year and a half ago.

Now it is worth....

56,000 to 57,000 on the trade side and retail asking prices are only in the 61,000 to 62,000 range.

fintail

I don't know if Rocky reads this thread....but if he does...Here's something for him

guss

After the $30k for the pole barn,which would never be approved in my development, there would be zero left over for toys.

I guess my only option is to put the car cover on it and park it in the visitors parking lot. Right where the animals, I mean kids, play street hockey.

qbrozen

you just described 2 reasons I refuse to live in a development. It took some time to convince my wife, but now that she's been out in the boondocks for a couple of years, she realizes how great it is.

And I can have as many darned cars as I want.

Its just, right now, anything beyond 2 has to tough it outside under the trees. My wife's Pacifica gets that honor, along with the Volvo (because its sitting on the curb with a sign in the window). The Lincoln and Alfa share the garage.

nippononly

Oh, I know they do - but they don't lose 30% of their value every 4 months when they're already six years old. And resale on Toyota trucks is usually stronger than on the cars, which is already pretty good for all but the super-high-volume cars.

I am like au - I can afford the gas, but don't WANT to spend that much on gas, which is why it mostly sits parked now, where I used to drive it casually. It is still my choice for offroading, vacations, and ski or beach trips. For that it is great.

Anyway, so much for dreams of trading my other car later this year, I am well and truly going to sit on my CCB-itis until at least mid-2007!

andre1969

could be something like the ones on this Amish site

I've seen them pop up occasionally around where I live, and if you go out to rural areas they're all over the place. The only site prep you really need to do is have a level spot with crushed gravel on it. I'd imagine that some communities would require that it be anchored down, but I wonder how strong of a wind it would take to topple something like this, anyway?

I had thought about getting one of these to use for storage, but I already have an old 10x20 foot garage on the property that needs to be repaired. I figure I could probably do it for a few hundred bucks.

corvette

I paid $34751 for my 3-series last July (including over $1800 in sales tax). I figure it's worth $26-27-ish now with 13,000 miles on it. Take out the sales tax, and $6-7k in depreciation in the first year is not terrible for a new car. It would probably be less on a Honda or Mini, though. I doubt its value will plummet as quickly in subsequent years.

rockylee

Fintail,

it won't come up pal....And yes I read this forum, even though I don't post very often. Fintail, I read every forum on the inside line. I don't read of course every forum like in future vehicles, or about specific make/models. If I did that I'd need Edmunds Anonymous. Wait I already do.

Rocky

woodyww

That sounds like a pretty amazing price--I'm guessing it's a fairly base model, maybe with the SPP? That's probably the way to buy a bmw, & not go totally broke.....you know how you can run up $10K in options on a bmw just to get the "basics" (for a luxury car).....

cheers, woody

corvette

It has metallic paint, the sport package, and the cold weather package, which means it doesn't have Steptronic, xenons, real leather seats, satnav and iDrive, satellite radio, BMW Assist, or power seats. Something tells me it may be difficult to resell.

nippononly

They still make a BMW without power seats?

woodyww

It must be awesome. I'd bet that the truly hard-core bmw nuts who want a 3-series with a Stick, & the SPP, may not care so much about the lack of other "stuff", when you go to sell. (The stick shift will probably narrow down the potential pool of buyers more than the minimal options). I probably would have gone for xenons, a S/R, & hopefully power seats (are they only available with the PPP?), but there's what, at least $2-3K extra right there.

I have a terrible time with options lists, & that's one of the only things I don't like about bmw's--paying "thru the nose" for every little extra. You did good, IMO.....

andre1969

My buddy and I might be going to the Nissan dealer to check out Xterras. He went to their website and requested some info and a quote, and it looks like they're letting these things go for $1000 under invoice.

Isn't the Xterra still a pretty hot seller? Or are they starting to fizzle as well, what with gas prices and such?

I just hope I don't let myself get suckered into an Altima while I'm there. Hey, I wonder if they'd give us a discount for buying two cars at once?

corvette

A sunroof is standard. I think that started in 2005. I would have paid extra for that if it weren't. Power seats are $995 as a standalone option.

It's really great to drive. There are a handful of rattles on rough roads, but hopefully those will get fixed after a visit to the service department.

If I added a ton of options, the TL would stand out as a much better value. But, the current generation TL doesn't seem to be as trouble free as I would expect from Acura.

akangl

Neat little Sentra SE today as a loaner. My truck went in for front differential number 3 today, but it appears that finally fixed the problem the truck has had for a while.

Found the Sentra to be a pleasant little car, very nimble and not too sluggish for an automatic. The one I had was a 2005 with 3300 miles on it.

Going to hopefully pick up the Sebring tomorrow, should know more by tomorrow afternoon.

geo9

Its a darn good thing you leased that titan !

I would hate to be stuck with it after the factory
warranty runs out.........

The Fulton NY "homies" say hello !

akangl

Its a darn good thing you leased that titan !

I would hate to be stuck with it after the factory
warranty runs out.........

The Fulton NY "homies" say hello !

Well, considering the truck has 51k on it right now and the B2B warranty ran out at 36k I'm already past that part. However, I still have the 60k powertrain warranty. The truck will be leaving the first week of July, going to trade it in. I'm over the lease miles, so its cheaper for me to trade it in now rather than turn it in at the end of the lease.

I miss springtime in Fulton..........so many big trees, so beautiful.

woodyww

He should sell it right now. In my experience, $10K per year is the minimum depreciation you can expect on a LR. I'm surprised he can do that well. Trading it on another LR however........the word masochistic springs to mind.

Not that I wouldn't have a Land Rover in my "fleet", if I had unlimited $$, & a full time mechanic on my staff.

*I have a customer who wants to trade in his 2005 Westminster Range Rover. *

anonymousposts

Still haven't made it to the car show. Work and basement contracters got in our way. We are going to try again tomorrow and try to get there as it opens so we have a chance to actually look at the cars. Little Gee is also a car nut so I'm sure he will get a kick out of it.

I was walking around our dealership lot a couple of days ago and was surprised at some of the deals. 2004 Lincoln LS for $19,000? 02 A4 for $18,000? 01 S60 5-speed manual for $14,000? But then there was a 2001 Civic for $13,000? Crazy.

I am still happy with the Accord. It really is a good balance of fun-to-drive, economy, and vaue. I still would like to have a Fit or a 2007 Si sedan but until we recover from the remodel expense of our basement the Accord will have to do....

steine13

2001 Civic for $13,000? Crazy.

My buddy Andre has an '01 Coupe LX, white, 5sp with 57k on the lot that looks nice but has a small dent in the rr qpanel... he's asking $9 and will probably take $8 but not much less.

That sounds a lot better than $13, but when you figure that car is SIX years old and wasn't $15 new... no used Hondas for this kid, thanks a lot.

At the auction, that's probably a $7 car still...

[..] would like to have a Fit or a 2007 Si sedan [..]

whaddaya mean, "or" ????
-Mathias

corvette

I don't get the Fit. It's cheaper than a Civic, but gets worse mileage. The Yaris barely, barely bests the Corolla in fuel economy. :confuse: I'm sure there are other virtues that I'm overlooking...

akangl

A used car lot. Picked up the Sebring today, car runs great, no issues at all with that. Sunroof was off its track, that's already fixed. Have to replace a couple rear suspension parts on the driver's side (will do that next weekend), a headlight, and a couple other minor little things. Will have it up and going by next week probably.

So, we are up to 4 vehicles now, but will be down to 3 with 2 paid off by next month. Hubby says if buying cars like the Sebring (cheap, needing some work) will satisfy my CCB habits then he's thrilled. The Sebring is awesome, can't wait to drive it further than just on the trailer.

anonymousposts

was an EX automatic. Regardless, $13,000 is too pricey IMO. Especially when you can get a Volvo that's the same year and mileage for $1400 more. My sister was recently in the market for another car to replace her 98 Saturn SL2 and the prices seem to have gone up on 4 cylinder sedans compared to 6 months to 1 year ago.

The Fit rings my bell. Not sure why and I wouldn't buy one because of the lack of a sunroof. But I still like it. The Si is obviously a superior car to the Fit but the Fit just seems like perfect basic transportation. It reminds me of our 89 Civic wagon which we took on several memorable trips. Also, unlike the Yaris it has a normal guage cluster instead of center-mounted and it has a very functional interior. MPG-wise the Fit is no better than our 96 Civic though.

nippononly

just one more example of a dealer charging rip-off prices for a used Honda...

I am probably a little jaded this evening (long day), but none of those deals sounds particularly great. However, the Civic was the only one that was ridiculous.

anonymousposts

but they seemed pretty reasonable to me. The Audi was loaded with only 20k, the Volvo seemed like a steal compared to the price of the Civic, and the LS had 18,000 miles and was a loaded V8.

ghulet

...I've been reading a lot in the Fit versus xB/xA/Mazda3 (the latter seems an odd comparison, IMO) threads, seems people are pretty happy with it, and getting pretty good mileage overall (~35mpg combined seems the norm). The Yaris is kind of cool, but yeah, with real-world equipment, it isn't a whole lot cheaper than most Corollas (configured with power stuff, manual trans and side airbags, it's like $15.7k, not that you could find one) has 20 fewer hp, a cheesy interior and gets only marginally better mileage. Throw in the lack of availability (at least in Chicago) with commensurate hard sell, and I don't see the point, either. I hate the center cluster thing, also. In any case, whether I like the actual vehicles or not, I'm excited about the back-to-basics approach. Nothing like $3 gas to make people realize that driving a big SUV isn't necessary for most of us most of the time.

steine13

I've posted this before, but it's relevant to the Fit discussion.

http://www.autobild.de/test/neuwagen/artikel.php?artikel_id=10805

These guys tested a "Jazz", which is what they call the Fit in Europe for 100,000 km. And then they tore it apart. They liked it in town, they didn't like it on the freeway, they blew the CVT -- a semi-common occurrence, and
$6k (!!!) or 5,000 Euro to replace -- and they said the rust protection was lousy; after two years, rust was starting in all kinds of places.

More a problem in Detroit than Atlanta, but still...
The picture where they lined up all the disassembled parts is worth wading through the article... it's on one of the last pages. Looks like Al Qaeda hit a Honda factory.

-Mathias

qbrozen

something is up with that LS. I've been contemplating trading mine and the wholesale is $17k. Mine is a year older with twice the miles. So either that '04 is at or even below wholesale or, like i said, something is wrong.

corvette

Dealers will often drop the asking price of a used car to wholesale just before sending it off to the auction, if it's been on the lot too long.

corvette

Rankings on the fifth page appear to show the number of defects. Interesting that Skoda is ranked below several VW's--Skoda is always near the top of the Top Gear survey. But, the fact that a 7-series ended up near the top does kind of suggest pure lunacy...

Looks interesting; I'll probably plug that in to the Google translator later...

british_rover

selling my MINI so I can have a more comfortable debt to income ratio to get a house.

I don't drive it hardly at all now and I don't need the other car since I have a demo.

Tough choice though because I never planned to ever sell that car. Not sure what to do.

woodyww

I don't know if you're making payments on it? If you are, & not using it, those are great reasons to sell. And you can always buy a brand new one easily (it's not like selling some scarce vintage car.....).

british_rover

Yeah I am still making payments on it. I drive it less then a 100 miles a month now too.

I had never planned on selling it since it was the first new car I ever bought.

Just not sure but if I sold the car it would free up nearly 500 dollars of monthly income once you factor in the car payment, insurance and taxes.

qbrozen

Well, someone took an 11-hour train ride to buy my Volvo last night.

After doing some thinking, calculating, and discussing with the wife, I'm going to now try to sell my Lincoln after just 7 months of ownership.

If I can't, no big deal. But we really shouldn't have such a tough time. I mean, its certified and I only owe about $1k over wholesale on it, so I should be able to come out clean.

What's next? Well, the front runner is an Accord 6-speed sedan lease. What do y'all think?

michaellno

The Accord is a good choice, I would think.

Why lease versus another purchase?

qbrozen

Because I switch cars so damned much.

After my first lease, I always said I would never do it again .... but its appealing to me lately. I mean, if I'm going to keep trading out of my cars before I have any equity, why not just lease and take advantage of the low rates they offer?

I used to drive too many miles, and I suppose that could always happen again and really screw me up, but I think I'm in a good financial position these days that I could work it out if something were to change.

PLUS, I'm looking to lease well below my means rather than at or above my means, which I believe is what most people do and how they seem to get in trouble. What I mean is, I could afford a much larger payment than I would get with leasing an Accord, for instance.

corvette

Works great unless & until you want to trade out of your lease... Not that we'd discourage that around here.