Funny you say that - my wife and I were just commenting on how harsh the ride was on her '08 328xi compared to her new wagon, which has larger wheels. I didn't know what was different, but it makes sense that the tires themselves have simply gotten better.
not runflats but our new RDX does have nice big sidewalls (235/60 I believe). Given the condition of the roads around here, the more the better.
they are 18" though, and right now prices are nuts to replace, so I hope they can push near 50K, but I have had terrible luck lately with OEM Michelins (barely 30K on the Odyssey).
In a few years there may be more choices to pick from too. thankfully we really don't put many miles on (should stay pretty close to the 10k/year, depending on the next college location, and if we do move in another year).
Just swapped out the wheels on my wife's wagon with the winter set (that we had purchased from the previous owner). 16" wheels! Unheard of! But ideal for the snow.
I don't look forward to the cost of replacing the tires on our 3's with the staggered set up. Hopefully they last for a little while (and don't hit all at once!).
Look on the bright side, Breld, even though the new tires will be costly, you can have fun researching product and price for at least a month. The only thing better than spending money, is planning the purchase.
Yes, the 2014 Forester will keep the FB25 engine and now gets a CVT.
The FB25 is nice - timing chain, separate coolant flow to the heads, and easy access oil filter at the top of the engine. Could use DI to make a bit more power, though.
32mpg highway for the AWD model will be best in class.
I wasn't a huge fan of the CVT in the Impreza when I had one as a rental.
That said, I'd give up a couple MPG to do my own shifting... wonder if the 6th gear on the new-generation Subies has alleviated the screaming highway RPMs of the previous NA Outbacks?
Could be a tossup between Outback and Forester if I am forced to go Subaru to get the 3rd pedal...
Ask and ye shall receive... from an outback forum, forget who wrote it but i copied the information...
"60 MPH, 6th, 2100 RPM. 36.0-37.2 MPG. Still very effecient, even at a moderate speed, this is the speed I typically drive at(all highways here are 55-70 limit) and I routinely get 550-600 miles per tank(33-36 average)."
It would be useful to compare to the OB's CVT ratios, which are:
CVT in manual mode: 1st gear 3.581, 2nd 2.262, 3rd 1.658, 4th 1,208, 5th 0.885, 6th 0.618. final 3.90
CVT in automatic D mode continuously varies between 3.581-0.618
So the Forester has a taller final drive, and a taller lowest ratio on the CVT. It can probably get away with that since it's lighter than the Outback.
You lose some aero, but not much. No wonder the Forester is rated higher in MPG.
I wouldn't characterize them as "screaming" RPMs. Surprisingly, my Fiesta runs at higher highway RPMs than my Forester, by a couple hundred given the same cruising speed. Happily, I get 40+ out of that (vs. 28-29 for the Forester) when cruising 68-70.
That said, I certainly wouldn't mind an extra gear (assuming lower overall ratio) for highway cruising in both of them if it meant better fuel economy.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I wouldn't characterize them as "screaming" RPMs. Surprisingly, my Fiesta runs at higher highway RPMs than my Forester, by a couple hundred given the same cruising speed. Happily, I get 40+ out of that (vs. 28-29 for the Forester) when cruising 68-70.
The screaming RPMs were when I test drove a 2006 Outback, and 70mph was clearly above 3000rpm, seemingly rather undignified for a car of its size and class.
Also test drove a 2007 Forester, which was definitely more relaxed... didn't get on the interstate with it, but did get to 60mph at roughly 2300-2400 rpm, so it would be more like 2700-2800 at 70.
The WRX that I tested around the same time was similar to the Forester. I could about kick myself for not getting that car... we know my insurance man would have been happy!
In a perfect world, the 6-speed would have similar gearing for 5th, with a taller 6th for better cruising. And that's what I was most curious about.
The CVTs do have very tall top ratios, but if I am stuck not shifting my own, I think my next vehicle would probably be a Honda CR-V.
There is an article in the Wall Street Journal today about the sky high price of used cars. I don't have a subscription, but they let you read the 1st paragraph!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Had a 2013 Chevy Cruze today with over 31k on the clock...what a piece of crap this car is! Luckily it had sat radio but it drove sloppily, accelerated very hard and loudly and felt like a Flintstone car...just not refined at all! Who would buy this crap with so many other good choices out there? Sure hope the Verano drives a whole lot better, even the Ford Focus was a better overall vehicle! The imports put this Cruze to shame and I now understand why there are so many in the U S. What an embarrassing vehicle!
Drove a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee to Orlando yesterday...interesting vehicle. Started out slow but once that power rush hits, man...you're flying down the pike! Would never own one but it was fun for a few hours. Off tomorrow at this point and have an appointment to get the Civic's headliner replaced at my house next Wednesday, so I'll take the day off. Will probably have the brakes replaced that day also if they need it and a oil change, rotation and re-balance of the tires. Since I'm not home everyday, got to plan multiple things all together now. But after staying home for almost 2.5 years, it's nice to be out again and driving a different car every day!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Do you know which engine the Cruze had? The 1.4 turbo is supposed to be better. I'm not that impressed with SiriusXM so far. I like Pandora via my cell phone better.
I am really loving the low end torque of the 2.0T in the Jetta. It can accelerate at a good clip while keeping the RPMs low, and the engine feels much livelier than the one in the Altima.
>> Had a 2013 Chevy Cruze today [..] Who would buy this crap with so many other good choices out there?
I would, begging your pardon, and I just leased one... this is the second time you had a Cruze & hated it.... given your back problems, I wouldn't expect any particular love, but I disagree with your assessment of the car.
Which begs the question, since both of us have an interest in cars and some experience, what's going on? I have only driven the 1.4 T; my own car and an Eco on a test drive. Both were manual 6 speeds, and the clutch and transmission is half the reason I really like the car. The other half is the engine plus the quiet and composed ride... power isn't huge, but certainly better than just adequate.
What I'm not too happy about is the very cocooned and enclosed feeling; stepping into my Vibe, I'm struck by a sense of airiness and headroom... and also by a sense of how loud, rude, and crude the Vibe is in comparison.
Getting into and out of the Cruze is a bit harder, too. Not exactly sports-car like, but even my wife -- 5'2 and skinny -- finds it hard to climb out of the seat.
Maybe the LS with the 1.8 NA engine + automatic is a lot different, but I wouldn't know. In all seriousness, the car that most closely resembles my Cruze is a 2nd-generation A4 turbo stick I drove a decade ago; cloth seats, similar in feeling, solid and heavy and quiet and fast enough.
I had a rental Focus last year and didn't think much about it one way or the other. Go figure.
31K rental miles might be harsh. I once had a Kia Spectra rental with 25K miles on it that looked like a private car with 250K on it. I hope it was just abused.
I had the opportunity to rent TWO 2012 Impala's driving them both about 130 miles each (Emerald Club) from the California desert to LAX and back. Actually, both were the same color and mileage (7,500 miles). It drove fairly well but the engine was just plain loud.
It had plenty of room for luggage in the trunk but my back-seat guests complained about the low position of the back seat and it was just plain hard and uncomfortable. :sick:
Maybe the new restyled Impala will have better improvements.
Will try something different next time.
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
The 2012 model has the GM corporate 3.6 liter overhead cam V6. I haven't driven that one but that engine has been criticized for its harshness. I had the 3.5 liter version as a rental car and thought it rode well. The 3.5 was relatively quiet in that car and felt quicker off the line than the G6 (with the same engine) I had at the time.
Corvette, you said the right word about the Impala engine, 'harshness'.... it was definitely harsh!
While in Hawaii, we rented a Buick Enclave.... very large, hard to see around the edges but a nice back-up camera. The second row had buckets which I didn't like as the third row area was piled with luggage. If we had a fifth person, we would have had to put them on the roof I guess. LOL!
It drove well and had the same controls as the Impala (air/radio, etc.).
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I haven't driven that one but that engine has been criticized for its harshness.
Can I have a link please? I have that engine in my 2012 LaCrosse and I can't feel/hear any harshess. It's not quite as refined as a Toyota 2GR, but you can rev it to 6500 and you barely can tell its working.
This was a Ward's 10 best engine a few years back.
The reason I asked for a link was that I couldn't find one! I looked at reveiws for my car and the Enclave/Acadia and most had nothing but good things to say about it.
I wonder if in the Impala the air intake/exhaust setup is significantly different from the other (newer) platforms that would change the character of the engine.
On the topic of rentals, I drove and rode in the back seat (not at the same time!) of a 2012 Fusion. I found the seats of that car incredibly comfortable, and overall it was quiet and compliant (when driving). It wasn't the handler my Fiesta is, but a nice family sedan nonetheless.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The Impala always surfaces over on TTAC, most recently as one of the best used car deals today. It has a lot of engine, that's for sure. I had a 2011 as a rental a few weeks ago and it was meh, but I haven't driven the newer engine.
I'd have to agree with Mathias here. I've had a number of Cruzes as rentals this year, most recently a 13 LTZ. I thought it was pretty nice. The 1.4T has usable torque, quiet, mileage was acceptable, good sized trunk, and the ride/handling compromise was okay. New touchscreen is responsive, no issues with it locking up, etc. All in all, pretty good and definitely not crap.
There's actually another article they did that compares the Cruze 1.8 and the Impala that's an interesting read. Year old examples of each are probably around the same price, I guess.
I've read that (and usually read TTAC every day), but that's probably worth a reread. Baruth's articles on the GLI and GTI planted the seed for my getting one.
Edited to add: Aha! Baruth says the GM 3.6 liter V6 "feels somewhat coarse" in the CTS.
I notice that Toyota dealers still have 2012 Priuses (Prii?) on their lots. With gas prices well into the $4/ gal range one would think tv the be selling better.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Add to that, the non-OEM wheels/tires (which look like they came off a Mustang) and lowered suspension. Also, I read the ad three times and don't see where the seller listed the mileage. And another thing: Not enough pics.
Comments
I'd love to see the C250 come over but sounds like it won't be here by the time my lease is up.
The Run Flat Tire Technology has come A LONG WAY. My Mom had an '08 E90 328xi that she constanly complained about the car's harsh ride.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
they are 18" though, and right now prices are nuts to replace, so I hope they can push near 50K, but I have had terrible luck lately with OEM Michelins (barely 30K on the Odyssey).
In a few years there may be more choices to pick from too. thankfully we really don't put many miles on (should stay pretty close to the 10k/year, depending on the next college location, and if we do move in another year).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I don't look forward to the cost of replacing the tires on our 3's with the staggered set up. Hopefully they last for a little while (and don't hit all at once!).
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
You're worrying us.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
So so true.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Am I the akangl of the lower 48?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The FB25 is nice - timing chain, separate coolant flow to the heads, and easy access oil filter at the top of the engine. Could use DI to make a bit more power, though.
32mpg highway for the AWD model will be best in class.
I wasn't a huge fan of the CVT in the Impreza when I had one as a rental.
That said, I'd give up a couple MPG to do my own shifting... wonder if the 6th gear on the new-generation Subies has alleviated the screaming highway RPMs of the previous NA Outbacks?
Could be a tossup between Outback and Forester if I am forced to go Subaru to get the 3rd pedal...
The turbo CVT can also simulate 6 or 8 steps, which may feel more natural to someone who doesn't like CVTs.
6MT:
1st 3.454, 2nd 1.888, 3rd 1.296, 4th 0.972, 5th 0.780, 6th 0.695. R 3.686, Final 4.444:1
Looks like 3rd-6th are all overdrives, but the final drive ratio is pretty short.
The CVT has a HUUUGE spread, 3.581-0.570, R 3.667. Tall Final drive at 3.70:1
"60 MPH, 6th, 2100 RPM. 36.0-37.2 MPG. Still very effecient, even at a moderate speed, this is the speed I typically drive at(all highways here are 55-70 limit) and I routinely get 550-600 miles per tank(33-36 average)."
there you go.
cheers -mathias
It would be useful to compare to the OB's CVT ratios, which are:
CVT in manual mode: 1st gear 3.581, 2nd 2.262, 3rd 1.658, 4th 1,208, 5th 0.885, 6th 0.618. final 3.90
CVT in automatic D mode continuously varies between 3.581-0.618
So the Forester has a taller final drive, and a taller lowest ratio on the CVT. It can probably get away with that since it's lighter than the Outback.
You lose some aero, but not much. No wonder the Forester is rated higher in MPG.
That said, I certainly wouldn't mind an extra gear (assuming lower overall ratio) for highway cruising in both of them if it meant better fuel economy.
At least Subaru offers a stick!
The screaming RPMs were when I test drove a 2006 Outback, and 70mph was clearly above 3000rpm, seemingly rather undignified for a car of its size and class.
Also test drove a 2007 Forester, which was definitely more relaxed... didn't get on the interstate with it, but did get to 60mph at roughly 2300-2400 rpm, so it would be more like 2700-2800 at 70.
The WRX that I tested around the same time was similar to the Forester. I could about kick myself for not getting that car... we know my insurance man would have been happy!
In a perfect world, the 6-speed would have similar gearing for 5th, with a taller 6th for better cruising. And that's what I was most curious about.
The CVTs do have very tall top ratios, but if I am stuck not shifting my own, I think my next vehicle would probably be a Honda CR-V.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Drove a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee to Orlando yesterday...interesting vehicle. Started out slow but once that power rush hits, man...you're flying down the pike! Would never own one but it was fun for a few hours. Off tomorrow at this point and have an appointment to get the Civic's headliner replaced at my house next Wednesday, so I'll take the day off. Will probably have the brakes replaced that day also if they need it and a oil change, rotation and re-balance of the tires. Since I'm not home everyday, got to plan multiple things all together now. But after staying home for almost 2.5 years, it's nice to be out again and driving a different car every day!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I am really loving the low end torque of the 2.0T in the Jetta. It can accelerate at a good clip while keeping the RPMs low, and the engine feels much livelier than the one in the Altima.
I would, begging your pardon, and I just leased one... this is the second time you had a Cruze & hated it.... given your back problems, I wouldn't expect any particular love, but I disagree with your assessment of the car.
Which begs the question, since both of us have an interest in cars and some experience, what's going on? I have only driven the 1.4 T; my own car and an Eco on a test drive. Both were manual 6 speeds, and the clutch and transmission is half the reason I really like the car. The other half is the engine plus the quiet and composed ride... power isn't huge, but certainly better than just adequate.
What I'm not too happy about is the very cocooned and enclosed feeling; stepping into my Vibe, I'm struck by a sense of airiness and headroom... and also by a sense of how loud, rude, and crude the Vibe is in comparison.
Getting into and out of the Cruze is a bit harder, too. Not exactly sports-car like, but even my wife -- 5'2 and skinny -- finds it hard to climb out of the seat.
Maybe the LS with the 1.8 NA engine + automatic is a lot different, but I wouldn't know. In all seriousness, the car that most closely resembles my Cruze is a 2nd-generation A4 turbo stick I drove a decade ago; cloth seats, similar in feeling, solid and heavy and quiet and fast enough.
I had a rental Focus last year and didn't think much about it one way or the other. Go figure.
Cheers -Mathias
It had plenty of room for luggage in the trunk but my back-seat guests complained about the low position of the back seat and it was just plain hard and uncomfortable. :sick:
Maybe the new restyled Impala will have better improvements.
Will try something different next time.
Mark156
-Mathias
While in Hawaii, we rented a Buick Enclave.... very large, hard to see around the edges but a nice back-up camera. The second row had buckets which I didn't like as the third row area was piled with luggage. If we had a fifth person, we would have had to put them on the roof I guess. LOL!
It drove well and had the same controls as the Impala (air/radio, etc.).
Mark156
Can I have a link please? I have that engine in my 2012 LaCrosse and I can't feel/hear any harshess. It's not quite as refined as a Toyota 2GR, but you can rev it to 6500 and you barely can tell its working.
This was a Ward's 10 best engine a few years back.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Hemi or Pentastar V6? I'm guessing V6 since you said it started out slow...
Sometimes very harsh - I had a Ford Taurus rental with 7k miles, smoked in, and that was perhaps the most miserable car I've ever had to drive.
Thankfully I have a 3rd car, so I drove it from the body shop to home with the windows wide open, and back the day I returned it, that was it.
They could not have given me that car for free.
I thought I had read that somewhere about the Acadia, but can't find the review anymore, so I retract my statement.
I wonder if in the Impala the air intake/exhaust setup is significantly different from the other (newer) platforms that would change the character of the engine.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
Mark156
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Edited to add: Aha! Baruth says the GM 3.6 liter V6 "feels somewhat coarse" in the CTS.
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3627471441.html
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
"the bad..abs light comes on and off"
Add to that, the non-OEM wheels/tires (which look like they came off a Mustang) and lowered suspension. Also, I read the ad three times and don't see where the seller listed the mileage. And another thing: Not enough pics.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.