Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ateixeira

I liked those, but I could barely see out of them. And the interiors left a bit to be desired.

Still, $13k? That's Chevy Spark money...

ateixeira

2005 Legacy GT wagon - the only year you could get that gen with a manual.

Now we can't get a Legacy wagon at all, just Outbacks.

boomchek

Yeah, the Magnums without the Hemi are usually about half cheaper - $6k and up.

I drove a Magnum as a demo for a bit and it's a neat car.

Speaking of Mopars, just before we bought our current 07 BMW 328 I almost bought an 06 300C SRT8, black on black, with Nav, rear DVD, low mileage etc.

Both the BMW 328 and the 300C SRT8 were on our lot and I could have had them for the same money ($20k 2 years ago). Although I loved the SRT8, its power, and how it drove, I passed on it as it would be more expensive to upkeep (20" tires, gas guzzler, etc). Although I don't think I would have regretted getting it because I still think it's a cool car but I think gas consumption would be twice as much as our BMW.

qbrozen

2nd link fixed.

Yes, the interiors were definitely subpar. I would never have spent $30k on a new one. But I guess that's how most people felt. Then when used dipped below $20k is probably where they started finding their fans. I also could never get past memories of 14 mpg in my v8 Dakota.

But that kind of money now for a toy car? Heck, I'd do it. But by the time I'm ready, all the low mileage ones will be long gone.

boomchek

I had a base 97 Legacy wagon with a stick and loved it. Subaru called the base trim a "Brighton" for whatever reason. I picked it up fairly cheap (under $1000) and it was so base it didn't even have a tach, no a/c, no power windows or locks.

I loved the way it drove and with almost 300,000kms (200k miles) I was surprised the engine was so smooth that you could not feel anything when idling or at a stop light. I guess it's the boxer design (flat 4) that made it smooth.

The Subie with my son playing in it:

fintail

Probably an easy flip too - people love them in this region.

No tach would bug me, I like to have it even in automatic cars.

breld

Just yesterday on the highway I saw an '05 (or another year of that gen) Legacy GT wagon. Rare indeed. Back in '05 I had just bought a TSX but was seriously considering trading it in on a Legacy GT manual wagon. Those weren't available for long, were they?

Speaking of wagons, I added to my list to check out some used Passat wagons ('07 - '10 model years). Hadn't given them much thought previously, but they seem to be pretty good buys (as long as you get comfortable with the potential inherent reliability issues). That was back when VW's mimicked Audi's much more so than today.

I like the Jetta wagons just fine, but you either get the 2.5l, which isn't great in any way, or the TDI, which hold their value too well to make a good used car buy. I suppose the 2.0T was available for a year or two, but are hard to find, whereas it's the common engine in the Passat.

Locally, there's a VR6 4motion with 35k miles listed for $18k, but that might be overkill. Another dealer has a 2.0T model well equipped with 50k miles for $13k. Intriguing enough to check out.

boomchek

Yeah I got almost double what I paid for it. To be honest I intended on keeping it for a while but I got bored with it and replaced it with the Accord Wagon.

ateixeira

Model year 2005 was the only year for a wagon/manual/turbo combination. The sedan was available longer.

fintail

To me, the oddball was the Turbo Forester - I've seen a few on the road around here.

VWs scare me, but the later Passats seem pretty nice. I think real world depreciation on them is pretty strong too, so prices must be negotiable.

fintail

What kind of profit was made with the Accord? Another easy sale.

You should find a 92-96 Camry wagon with the dual rear wipers, oddest thing Toyota would sell here for a long time.

boomchek

I picked up the Accord wagon for about $1300 or less with taxes and everything and got $2600 for it when I sold it. I didn't even want to sell it and just put it up online to see if there was any interest. I guess there was. :shades:

fintail

That's the way to do it. You'll have a hard time flipping an old MB like that.

ateixeira

I test drove a 2004 Forester turbo/manual, and it was simply shocking. One of the quickest cars I've driven, particularly with an AWD launch. 0-60 was 5.3 seconds per Car & Driver.

I thought, can't be. No way.

Yes, it was.

The 04/05 models actually got the semi closed-deck block from the STI. So it was not a built-up version of the base engine, it was a de-tuned STI block. HP was grossly underrated.

Add ultra-short gears and AWD and it made for a lightning bolt launch off the line. You needed 2nd gear before you got across the intersection. Seriously.

Being a CCB thread I came close to making a totally impractical impulse buy on those.

I ended up splitting duties and getting 2 vehicles, a minivan and a roadster.

To this day, though, that was the most shocking test drive I've ever taken. It felt like driving a 911 turbo backwards, while sitting on the roof.

boomchek

You'll have a hard time flipping an old MB like that.

Yeah, the thing is I buy the cars primarily for personal use, and if I can get out of them later on without losing money that's a plus, if I can gain something that's even better.

I think the old Fintail would be too much car for me in terms of upkeep and maintenance and not something I could use as a daily driver.

I just got rid of my MDX and am trying to sell my Echo, but now I'm having second thoughts about the Echo because gas prices keep creeping up and I know it's going to be hard to find something with as good fuel economy. A full tank lasts me two weeks in this car, and it's a 5 door hatchback, RS model so it's not as ugle as the old Echo sedans or coupes.

The only thing is the Echo is an econobox and it's ok to drive, and the 5 speed makes it a little bit fun, but I'm craving an older Benz or Bimmer right now.

We shall see what I come across next.

qbrozen

but I'm craving an older Benz or Bimmer right now

I'm going to be selling our '86 300e as soon as I can get around to fixing a couple of things on it.

boomchek

A ton of the old 300E models have tranny issues, at least the ones I looked at. :surprise:

I wouldn't mind a 300E from the mid 90s, just before the redesign, or a 300E wagon, or the 2 generations of the old S Class from late 80s to mid 90s, or if I want to go cheap, an early 90s 190E.

I can also pick up 99 and up 3 series BMWs for quite cheap. They sell at the auction in the $3.5-$5k range, and a few manual tranny sedans went through as well. Might be a fun car.

roadburner

The 2008 Magnum SRT8 is pick of the litter, IMNSHO- it has a much more attractive front fascia, and not a lot were built; I'd buy one if I had the garage space:

fintail

The fintail would worry me for one thing - rust. Even the damp around here can hurt one. It's a simple car, but you'd be working on it now and then - whereas on an old Accord, you might never have to lift the hood.

300Es need regular transmission servicing, or they lose it. Every 50K miles or even less. And by 200K miles or so, there's a chance it will go no matter what. The real weak link in 80s era MB.

W123 might be a safer bet, but nice ones are getting less and less common. The Echo will be good to keep, but if gas really does spike, so will its value, you might be tempted.

qbrozen

300Es need regular transmission servicing, or they lose it. Every 50K miles or even less. And by 200K miles or so, there's a chance it will go no matter what. The real weak link in 80s era MB.

Really? I thought that gen was supposed to be the indestructible one. Ours is like buttah'. Then again, only 93k miles. :shades:

Sandman6472

Any problem with the C Class, this generation and the last one? Just curious as I really like this vehicle in either generation and might decide to purchase one in the future if the planets align properly. Sure it's just a dream now, but it could be a reality eventually! One never knows what the future will hold.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

fintail

I've seen a few with transmission issues. But these are 20+ year old cars often with sketchy or cheapskate maintenance, so that probably plays into it too. I've also read of earlier W126s failing around 150K or so - but back in the malaise days, that was pretty good.

My W126 had the same powertrain as a 300E, and it too was smooth as a new car, but had been maintained to a tee.

fintail

I'd be leery of a pre-05 model - turn of the century models can have lots of little issues, not a MB high point. Really, the W204 (2008+) is the one to have.

js06gv

I had a 2006 Magnum for a company car. It was a base model with the smaller six and thus very gutless, but I loved everything else about that car -room, ride and handling, nice interior (for an '06 Dodge anyway). Of all the cars I've owned over the years, the Magnum was the only one to never have had to go back to the dealer for anything. Had it from new to 66K. I ended up buying it from the company when the lease was up and flipped it for 3K profit. Still miss that car.

Sandman6472

Agreed as I test drove a 2011 and was smitten actually! The wife won a free oil change at the local Benz dealer so I took my Civic to use it. The sales guy was nice enough and since it was an early Thursday morning, we went for a test drive. I instantly fell in love actually, the car just drove like nothing I've ever experienced...honestly. If $ was not an issue, I'd have one in the garage this minute. Still dreaming about one and will be able to buy one, a new one, in a month or two but will not live the dream as of yet! If I ever win the lottery though, this is gonna be my 1st purchase. The C is the perfect sized vehicle as far as I'm concerned as I prefer the compact sized vehicle as my d d. Give me one in charcol or silver and I'm good to go!
Will have to try a BMW so I'll have something to compare the C to but that will be done at a future date. Luckily the BMW store is pretty close also.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

fintail

Maybe you should go for it - live a little :P

Or at least rent a Sixt C250. Or lease. C and 3er were built to lease.

They will be giving them away next year, as a new style will (probably) be replacing it for model year 2015. Probably be easy as pie to lease one for $299 then. I suspect deals can be had now too, especially on basic (tex, no nav) cars. 08 cars can be had now for under 20K, that will collapse when a new model comes around.

A C250 diesel would interest me.

kyfdx

There is one on my local CL... 105K miles... asking $12,500...

Seems like a lot....

For comparison, an '07 MazdaSpeed 6 with 74K miles for $11,500...

Other than not being a wagon, seems like the better buy...

roadburner

For comparison, an '07 MazdaSpeed 6 with 74K miles for $11,500...

Other than not being a wagon, seems like the better buy...

Yes, assuming the smoking turbo and VVT actuator TSBs have been performed. Oh yeah, make sure the rear diff isn't about to go Tango Uniform. Ditto for the diff mount.

boomchek

I had a 2001 Mercedes C240 and my parents have a 2002 C240 right now.

Our 2001 C240 had about 110,000kms (65k miles) when we got it.

It was a very nice highway cruiser but shortly after we got ours, in 2006 I believe, my power steering went and I had to replace the steering rack at $2000 or something like that. I never did and drove without power steering, which I got used to although it was quite heavy.

Then it developed a stalling issue and needed the crank and cam position sensors replaced. Along with an oil change at an independent mechanic this repair cost about $800.

On our honeymoon in 2007 we drove it from Vancouver to LA and then to Las Vegas. On our way back the alternator went so we had to turn around somewhere between Vegas and LA, head back to LA and get it fixed at MB. That cost another $1000 or so.

Before we got rid of it in 09 the automatic climate control started going wonky, with air not coming through all the vents and odd noises coming from under the dash when certain climate control buttons were pressed. We got rid of it at that point after about 2 or so years with it and with about 180,000kms (110k miles) on the clock.

Although it was nice to drive I just didn't like the "unexpected" headaches with it.

My mom's C240 is now developing a power steering issue as well. It's slowly leaking the PS fluid, but they haven't got it checked out yet. Other than that the automatic headlight sensor is not working on it anymore and so she has to turn the lights on manually. But then she doesn't drive hers very much, maybe once or twice a week and hers has about 80k miles on it.

So that's my experience with that generation of C Class.

The only issue I found on the newer ones is when we had a used 3 year old C300 on our lot and the passenger power seat wasn't working, specifically the lumbar support. It was stuk in the inflated position. Could have just been the button or something else, I'm not sure.

Just when you buy these cars, make sure you set money aside for repairs, or buy extended warranty for everything on it.

Sandman6472

This is probably the one reason I would not pull the trigger as I'm used to a vehicle that needs minimal upkeep like my current Civic...just give it petrol and oil changes and it starts every time...I just do not want a car with any drama! And let's be honest, new cars are getting better and better and many of the "goodies" that the lux brands get are finally making their way down the food chain to economy vehicles. And there's nothing like that new car warranty to go along with that new car smell! So even though I do lust for a more fun and exotic vehicle, I still like new ans since I don't purchase that often, I can afford new. And my preferred size is still around 180" and that fits perfectly on my side of the garage. I know we'll be here for the foreseeable future and since I'm a real stickler for keeping both vehicles in the garage, I'll probably stay within that size or go down a bit. That still leaves plenty of choices though but the next one will be the top of the line model so I can enjoy that hole in the roof!

Will still take a 3 for a test drive soon and also check out the local MB store just to have some fun. I always go on an off day...Tuesday morning around 10 seems to be the best time to do these things. One never knows what I'll find and what I'd do given the right circumstances since we purchase and pay for our own rides!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

ateixeira

'07 MazdaSpeed 6

On paper that's a great car, but I test drove it and....I dunno, I was disappointed. It's very nose heavy, and even though it's AWD it still felt like FWD.

The Subie was 50/50 front-rear split and more neutral, balanced.

I ended up getting a Mazda MX-5, so that event (Mazda Zoom Zoom Live) planted a seed for a different purchase.

ateixeira

See if you can find a driving event hosted by Audi or BMW locally. Audi had one at Summit Point race track and it was a hoot. They brought along an A4, plus a C class, 3 series, and Lexus IS to compare.

The Bimmer and the Audi were the ones that stood out at the track. This was about 2-3 years ago.

Having said that, you may have different priorities for a DD. Still, it's fun to test them at the limits like that.

fintail

You had that problematic early W203, and then your parents go out and buy an early W203? Something in the water there? :P

There are some MBs like those that I just wouldn't touch.

nyccarguy

I've seen a few of these around. Ive never driven obne, but know that they were only available with a stick (edit: Just saw available with auto too), so the owners are ALL enthusiasts. When I see a forester with a hood scoop, I make sure to move right over.

The 2010s seem to have asking prices in the 21 - 22K range. 2009s have dipped into the high teens (asking price).

Any problem areas we should know about?

xwesx

The Legacy GT Wagon is a pretty rare beast, being 2005 MY only, so I'm not surprised that the price is somewhat high. If you can find one that isn't flogged to death by now, you have to buy that car! :P

boomchek

My parents got theirs a few months ago for pretty cheap at the local auction too. I think they paid like $5k or $6k or something for it.

They had a 2003 Saab 9-3 that they sold (that they bough from me for cheap from one of the dealerships I worked at) and needed something else. My mom is the type that just has to have a fancy brand of things, from shoes, to bags, to cars.

Trying to talk them into getting something reliable like a Camry, Corolla, or Accord is like pulling teeth.

Actually a few years ago they had an older light blue 300D, a W123, that was previously owned by "a little old lady". Well one day they were driving and a seal on the oil pan or somewhere went, all the oil leaked, the gauges showed no warnings and the engine seized up. :sick:

ateixeira

If there's a problem you'll know it, even hear it.

Wheel bearings are probably #1. Head gaskets weren't as big of a problem on the turbos. Check the front and rear main seal for oil stains.

Drive in a tight figure 8 to make sure all the diffs are functioning properly.

09s had a recall for a small batch of bad crank bearings.

I've just made you paranoid but they are very reliable overall.

fintail

There's a reason it was cheap. I can get an old V12 MB cheaply too - tell them about one of those. But personally, I wouldn't pay more than scrap value for it. And from an auction no less - not where one buys a reliable old MB. There's a reason it's there. It's time you had a talk with them :shades:

How long do you think they'll keep it? Maybe they just need to get a bland old Lexus, those are kind of fancy...but then again, your mother is from Europe, where most people see a Lexus having equal prestige to an Avensis.

I am glad my mother is happy with a Camry.

fintail

Black painted wheels are seldom a good sign.

ateixeira

Yeah, that says the previous owner had major road rash but painted them black because it was cheaper since they were originally polished.

boomchek

I don't like this black wheels trend. Maybe it looks good on big trucks, or wheels with chrome lips and painted black spokes, but I'm not a fan of this black wheels.

At Maserati it's a factory option, I think it makes the car look unattractive. but quite a few people ordered them like that so what do I know?

boomchek

My mom doesn't use it that much though, maybe once or twice a week. But yeah I had conversations with them and they just like the nice brands. They never liked any luxo Japanese cars, not even the MDX I had.

I think it's just a mentality from living in communist Poland where luxury cars were scarce and hard to get, so they want something fancy nowadays.

I already talked them out of many potential disaster cars that they wanted to buy, from old cheap ML's, old Range Rovers, Jaguars, you know the flashy stuff that spends more time in the shop than on the road. :lemon:

breld

And the manual was only offered on the Forester XTs on the second gen (pre-'09) right?

Any other considerations when considering a third-gen Forester? Didn't they technically change the engine in '11 or so? Is that significant at all?

Those are on my list - along with the CX-5, Santa Fe, Passat wagon, Mazda3, Elantra GT, Impreza.......the list goes on.

nyccarguy

Not necessarily. Depends if they were sprayed black or properly powder coated. I happen to like the black, stealthy look of certain cars with bigger wheels. On the right side of his 3 car garage, a friend of mine has a Sapphire Black Metallic X5 ///M with black powder coated wheels that look fantastic. On the left side he parks his Frozen Black ///M5 with black powder coated wheels & (stock) monster sized, blue brake calipers. It has serious presence & is truly breathtaking.

But on that particular forester, I don't like the black wheels with the large wheel well gap. I'd actually prefer the stock silver.

I'd imagine with the turbo & 4 speed slushbox it averages 19 mpg (city/highway).

ateixeira

Yes, the only manual/turbos combination were in the 04-08 models.

The EJ engine series was used until MY2010, the FB series debuted in the 2011 Forester.

Yes, it's significant:

* timing chain replaced belt
* synthetic oils used, with longer service interval
* oil filter on top of engine, easy access
* no coolant flow through head gaskets = leaks not possible
* about +1 mpg

So I would suggest a higher mileage 2011+ Forester over a 2009-10.

Sandman6472

The new Audi store is right next to the Hyundai place but they are within a 4 mile radius of each other so I can be at each dealer within minutes actually. We even have a Carmax down the road though I'd never buy there but it's a great place to check out models back to back to back as they are all within yards of each other. Will do that next week while I'm off just to see what they all drive like. Even though I'm dead set on keeping the Civic until the 2017 model year, under the right circumstances any of us could change vehicles if it makes financial and logical sense...me included! The only problem could be she who must be obeyed...she just does not get my passion and obsession with the automobile...and never will. My oldest and middle girl seem to "get it" now so there is hope!

I guess deep deep down, I WANT A NEW VEHICLE THAT'S FUN AND HAS THE GOOD STUFF! Finally, I said it...and it feels soooooo good!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

P. S. We have 2 Miami to West Palm runs for Sixt at 5:30 this afternoon! Crazy life here!

rayainsw

'if it makes financial and logical sense...'
Or even if it make financial OR logical sense...
- Ray
Off to Atlanta Auto Show tomorrow AM

breld

under the right circumstances any of us could change vehicles if it makes financial and logical sense...me included!

Financial AND logical sense? C'mon now, get real! :P

Seriously, I can't wait until you get into a car of your dreams, whatever (and whenever) that may be. I'll have my wife talk to yours - you know, one CPA to another.

breld

Thanks for the info on the used Foresters - very good to know.

Sandman6472

Any time Breld but she's one tough nut to crack! She really thinks a vehicle is just an appliance and that's all and never gets excited about them. Man, i get excited even after it gets a good wash and am doing handstands after my guy details it! My car always has to look good and clean...was getting ready to wash it but got a text that we have work at 5:30 down in Miami. Left the car outside and had the wash mit, bucket and hose already at the car to start and then I get the text. The wash will wait till tomorrow so I'm off folks.

Anytime your wife wants to work her magic on mine, let me know!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

And yeah, I also can't wait until I get the new or used vehicle of my dreams!