Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

Q, are those Fiesta STs out yet? That looked like a fun little car. slalom them both around the dealers lot to see which one will Auto X best.

roadburner

Q, are those Fiesta STs out yet?

I stopped by my local Ford dealer and talked to a salesperson I know. They were taking orders, but she was told that production hasn't started yet. If I go with a new hot hatch it will probably be an Abarth. The ST isn't any less expensive(X-plan only gets you @$200 off of MSRP) and I don't know of a Ford dealer in the Louisville are that has a decent service department. The SM at the Fiat dealer knows I'll take the car to some HPDEs and is cool with it- in fact, I think he wants the car to be seen at some gearhead venues. I can just hear the Ford SM saying something like: "The power window motor is dead? I'm sorry sir, but your warranty has been voided since you race the car."

tifighter

A few months ago, I mentioned that the ILX @ $30k didn't make much sense over the Civic SI @ $23k. The market seems to agree. Low miles on that one.

nyccarguy

5.0 - just priced up a GT with 6 - speed automatic as the only option. Sticker price of $32K. With current incentives that's a helluva car for $27K. Wonder what the incentives will be like at the end of next summer when the lease is up on my BMW (with a body change lurking)? Could I live through a southern New England winter with a RWD, Live Rear Axle, V8 Mustang GT as my daily driver (with some serious winter rubber)? Will my wife approve of 2 of our 3 cars being coupes? With CAFE standards, will we see the end of the V8 as we know it (if this is the case, I'll be forced to buy one). Stay tuned. Same bat time. Same bat channel.

stickguy

I could live with one of those at that price. Nice discount. I sat in one this week at the dealer, and much much nicer than a Civic. Especially the seats and dash, plus more "stuff" on it.

and man, the center stack looks just like our new RDX.

stickguy

No, you can't live with that in the winter unless your wife wants to stay home any time the white stuff is threatening.

and no, she will not let you have 2 cars with no usable back seat or rear doors in the family. Not that I know her, but pretty sure on this one!

I seem to recall you are not particularly tall, but at 6', when I had the drivers seat adjusted to what was not cramped up, there was maybe 1" between the seats, so it is effectively a 2 seater.

nyccarguy

I'm only 5'10". If I can fit in my Prelude, I can fit in a Mustang. But you are probably correct about my wife & the bad weather. I just really need to keep myself away rom the Ford dealership then.

Hey q. Just had a thought. Explorerx4 said that dealers buy Mustangs cheap at the end of the summer/fall/winter & store them until Spring. That could explain how they are selling them at near current auction prices. Every dealer I spoke to when I was trying to help a mate from Australia buy a GT500 (in Late Jan, early Feb) told me they'd take $500 to $750 off their asking price (used). They said they'd rather wait until March 1st, then raise their asking price & get it.

qbrozen

Maybe. Well, tomorrow should be a short day at work and I just finished up at midnight tonight in the garage depersonalizing my bimmer, so tomorrow afternoon starts the shopping. Kay Honda gets the first call. It could be the color that kills that car's value but I personally like it in the pics. Like a metallic blackberry. Reminds me of a rare and odd color on the first year 350z called Brickyard.

I see no problem with RWD in the winter with good snow shoes. The mustang does have a locking diff and traction control, so it's actually got a leg up on many old FWD cars. Like I've said man times, the best snow car I ever had was my 190E with snow tires and no electronic nannies. Go figure.

I'd pass on the fiesta. The GTI was pretty cool but I'm just not ready to go back to a hot hatch. I mean, I traded that for a reason....I think.

au1994

Just to clarify, the body and chassis change on the 3 Series sedan has already happened its the coupe and convertible that will get the update this fall and a name change to the 4 Series. 3 Series Sport Wagon is now available as well.

nyccarguy

Whoops! I meant the body change is lurking on the Mustang. Sorry about any confusion guys.

rayainsw

And an IRS under that new body, rumor has it.
- Ray
Interested to see what actually appears...

qbrozen

Is there anything new on the 2014s? They came out early for some reason.

BTW, I hit the button on Kay's website to inquire about the Stang. The system sent me an email with a special price quote of over $25k. :confuse:

I've emailed the salesperson assigned and told him I'll come in this afternoon if the $21k price on Cars.com (I added link to message) and their own website (I included screenshot of that) is accurate. If, however, the $25k price I was emailed was correct, I would not be coming in.

qbrozen

Just for giggles, I checked edmunds trade value on my car. What the hell, Edmunds? Dealer retail is $19k? Really? Funny that they are going through Manheim at $19k. Dealer would be out of business selling them at that price. Although they could make a hell of a business if they could convince owners to trade them in at the proposed $16k and then just wholesale them off for a hefty profit. I would do that all day long and never have to deal with a private customer. That would be an awesome business to be in and get rich REAL fast doing it.

nyccarguy

My guess (and that's all it is) is that they will be coming out with the 2015s early in 2014.

gouldn

That $21K on the '12 sure seems low to me ... but out here in CA, it seems that all used car prices are higher than what you're seeing. For kicks I searched new 5.0's nearby and found a couple strippo's with AT and nothing else. One at $31 and one at $29.4K pre-discount. I'm not sure what the discounts are but that does seem like a pretty good bargain.

qbrozen

well, after 3 hours, I finally got a call back and was told it sold. Riiight. That's convenient.

So I guess its off to the Ford dealer after work to see if they can locate a new one (and if the $4k rebates are for real).

tifighter

The best advertised price on a new 14 GT on CA I've seen is this here. But I admittedly don't look in LA; could be something better there.

qbrozen

Gosh that's pretty.

nyccarguy

Burns oil, no torque, crummy gas mileage. Wonderfully balanced handling.

breld

Everything nyc said. BUT, that last comment about the handling, combined with the high depreciation, makes it very intriguing in my eyes.

I drove a few RX-8s several years ago and remember liking them more than the 350z at the time. At $25-30k new, there may have been better options, but at $10-15k used, it's a pretty cool option. I'd be interested to hear your take on it, Q (meaning, go drive one today!)

corvette

I think a 350z would probably be easier to live with (and they're not perfect, IIRC, they used to be infamous for tire and brake wear).

nyccarguy

Qbrozen had a 350Z if memory serves me correctly

stickguy

I like that one. a lot. I drove an RX-8 when they first came out and it was really, really fun. Could work for me now that I don't need practical (though the orders from the family all seem to be for a convertible now!)

stickguy

that is true. But as a rule of thumb, if a car is either odd or fun, just assume he had one.

roadburner

...but I really like this 2010 Challenger R/T Classic:



27,000 miles, 6 speed manual, Track Pack, heated seats... My inner redneck is calling out to me. :P

nyccarguy

My other beef with the RX8 is it has less torque than my Prelude & gets about the same gas mileage as my Pilot.

nyccarguy

No sunroof either? I do like how they styled the Challenger. What are they asking for that bad boy?

I think ALL of us who are very into our European & Japanese cars would get a RWD, V8 muscle car if all the stars aligned.

roadburner

No sunroof either? I do like how they styled the Challenger. What are they asking for that bad boy?

$27,500. It's a limited edition "Heritage" color- "Furious Fuchsia"... The "Classic" trim level gets you the body stripes, the flip-open fuel cap, '70s style script badging, and the pseudo Cragar S/S wheels. Here's the full story. There's even an online registry for the FF cars. Having said all that, this red 2011 R/T Classic is a screaming deal:



$27,980 and just 8,800 miles. It's a slushbox, but it also has HIDs and the Boston Acoustics speaker package with the 276 watt amp.

qbrozen

Funny, I just saw that same challenger the other day and thought what a horrible color. No thanks. I do love the looks of the new challenger but just couldn't live with a muscle car weighing over 2 tons.

Anyway, went to the closest ford dealer by work at about 2pm yesterday, and 4 hours later I walked out with a deposit receipt and buyers order.

Got the green pea as seems to always happen. He didn't fully understand how to use the tools at his disposal so I kind of helped him with some of that. Turned out they are owned by same group who owns the store with that CPO 2012 with 15k miles. So first thing we did was take out a 2013 premium 6-spd to see if I liked driving the car. I did very much. Crazy instant on torque, nice shifter, and surprisingly comfy. Does feel massive compared to the 1'er, though. Then he was kind enough to drive me over to the sister store to try out the CPO car. At the very least, this exercise was so I could try the base model seat.

Turned out I actually like the base seat better, at least from a driving position. Thanks to the lower starting point and no moonroof, the extra headroom allows me to sit more upright and closer to the steering wheel without pushing my knees into the dash. But the first thing I noticed climbing in was the smell. This car had been smoked in. So I told him before even turning the key that it was a no sale but we'd drive anyway and, if I liked it, we'd work the numbers on a 2013. I was still sold.

So back to store number one. I had left my trade for inspection while we were gone and we had already discussed the rebates, so we were halfway there. He disappeared for a while and came back with numbers. I was impressed that he went to basically invoice plus a little to transport car from out of state minus all rebates. But they were $2k shy on the trade. After back and forth, we wound up $88 less on the new car and $1500 up on the trade. Of course I hoped for better but feel it is still a fair deal.

Now, the thing is, we don't actually have a car yet. He could not get through right then and there to the few dealers in NY who each had one. He let me go and will call when they pin one down.

js06gv

More details!!! Did you go for the base after all or step up to the premium? Decide on color? Other options?

I drove my wife's 2011 GT (automatic) yesterday and still get the giggles every time I do.....

qbrozen

It is a base model, which is why they have to get one from another store. And since he has yet to pin one down, I still don't know the color. The first 4 on his list to call about are Blue (the darker one), red, and 2 white. I'd be fine with any of those.

So far, it's simply the base model. But it could have some little option or two if that's all he can find. We'll see.

I'm a tad remorseful at spending so much...but I think it is probably the best option. I mean, that supercharged 2007 was second on the list and that's $16k for a 6-year-older car with 55k miles vs $25,700 for a new one. Just doesn't make a lot of sense.

rayainsw

'More details!!! Did you go for the base after all or step up to the premium? Decide on color? Other options? '
Yes, please!
- Ray
Particularly interested in your view on the manual shift
on the automatic .....

qbrozen

You are asking js06, not me, right? Cause I drove, and am getting, a stick.

As for the stick, the shifter feels good, but I did have a little trouble finding the gears sometimes. Seemed to be something I'd quickly get used to though.

rayainsw

Oops - thought the 135 was an auto -
and assumed you'd buy the GT that way as well.
Sorry.
- Ray
Confused - again....

nyccarguy

Aaaaaah! Nothing like a Memorial Day weekend muscle car CCBA card punch! Can't wait to see which color you end up with.

qbrozen

The 135 is an auto. Mustang just wouldn't be right with one, IMHO.

qbrozen

salesperson said because all the dealerships were so busy today he couldn't get a commitment, and he'll get back to me on Monday.

Now, of course, Monday is also going to be a busy day, so we'll see. I'm thinking I should plan to do more shopping on Monday.

qbrozen

Oh, forgot to answer this... yes, I did. It was an '04 Touring. Really loved that car. Gave it up after just 9 months because we found out first kid was on the way. I really should have kept it and my T5, which I still had at the time.

nyccarguy

Shoulda, woulda, coulda...

If you had done that, then you wouldn't be a card carrying, charter member of CCBA

stickguy

congrats. And I love the image (if not irony) of having a GT "stang and a Leaf side by side.

stickguy

for you regulars, you might recall that last month, my son's TL had a problem with the window, requiring a new regulator. And how ticked I was that it cost me money, just weeks before graduation (which is this weekend, so I am currently in Ithaca for that, where the car resides). We were also packing up his stuff, planning to come home tomorrow.

so we were out earlier and had his car, ran just fine. parked at his apartment and went to dinner (no foot) then back to do packing. around 9, he starts it up so I could get out of the driveway in my car, and tells me that the CEL is on, and it does not seem to be running right. turned it off, and while I was snaking my car around it, he started it again and per my wife, it might have smelled funny.

one lousy day more, and we would have been home where I could just deal with this for good. now, we need to try it tomorrow after commencement to see what is up, and if I can find something under the hood. unless it is running, sounding and smelling fine (CEL be damned!) instead of him coming home, we will have to drop the darned thing back at the Honda dealer so they can check it on Tuesday, and he will just come home whenever (or if) it is fixed. thankfully he has his room until the 1st, and there are plenty of his friends in his house for the summer so he can bum a ride.

stickguy

my son is trying to be optimistic that maybe it is something not too expensive, or major, but my wife has had enough. We were talking back in our room and she wants that thing gone, now. too bad though he does not have a job lined up yet, which I really wanted before doing anything with the TL.

need to see what the latest issue is, but I still fear that it may not come back out of the shop this time. Might be for the best, since ti would force the issue. not that I have (or wanted to spend) the money right now.

then of course, is the question of what the heck to get. a cheap S&D lease (those ILXs looking good!)? something used but not too used? not really wanting to be shopping that market again.

might dump the TL and Integra and get 1 better car that we can share for now, then when he gets a job, one of us can keep it on. Probably the best option at this point, no matter what happens with this latest mechanical malady.

qbrozen

CEL is just emissions equipment. could be o2 or cat itself. if it really smells funny and doesn't run right, probably not a good idea to drive it since you could be melting the cat and making the repair bill bigger.

qbrozen

Kind of using this forum just to save the cars I've found so I can refer back to them later. haha.

Obviously, I'd have to get these guys to come down about $2k. But that's a pretty cool color.

Now that I know a little more, maybe this premium is a consideration.

As well as this one I posted before.

I would have to pay over $29k for a new 2013 premium.

I've searched and searched and I just don't see any other vehicle with substantial warranty that appeals to me. So I think this seems to be the right route for me.

stickguy

what is on the premium over the base that is worth it to you? Must be something.

and thanks on the TL. I did not try it myself. will get a better look. Not worried about something like an 02 sensor if it won't affect the driving, but yeah, don't want to take a 250 mile trip though the boonies if the car is going to melt down.

will take it out this afternoon to drive around (toward the dealer, just in case!) and if it is determined to not be right (or it dies) we will just leave it there and hope for the best.

breld

I also went out over the weekend to look at some potential replacements for the 530i when that sells. Ended up driving:

Honda Accord Sport (CVT)
Hyundai Genesis (used 2012)
Hyundai Elantra GT
Hyundai Santa Fe Sport
Mazda CX-5 Touring
Mazda6 Touring

Yes, all over the board. By the end of the day, we decided another sedan wasn't necessary, and we'd rather have a hatchback or small SUV. With the current platform of the Mazda3 nearing its end (and my wife hating the styling anyway), I'd prefer the Elantra GT if going with a small hatch. I'm a little more torn on the SUV front - I like the drive of the CX-5 better, but like the extra room of the Santa Fe (and I like the styling of the new model).

Hyundai had a curious Memorial Day promotion - $3,500 off any new model. Curious to me, 'cause that's not such a great deal on, let's say, a Genesis, but it'd be a great deal on an Accent, right? Salesperson confirmed that it was the same amount for any model. So, the Elantra GT I looked at, with the "Touch 'n Go" package would be $18k. Not bad. They had a loaner Santa Fe for sale, base AWD model for $23,000. Also seemed like a pretty good deal.

No decisions yet, but it was a fun day.

stickguy

son tried his car today. said the light was still on (though it seemed to run OK), but the TCS light was blinking. I have a bad feeling that could be tranny related.

at least graduation was nice. and he won an unexpected department award for his senior project.

just might not be able to ever make it home.

jayrider

All those test drives and no Audi Allroad, Cadillac SRX, Nissan Murano, Audi Q5 or Acura RDX ? Get busy young man, times a wasting.

qbrozen

I think the Ford Sync is part of that premium package, which I believe means bluetooth. Leather? Well, I can't say I really care about that, and like I said before, the power seat I think is actually worse for me. The leather did make for a slightly softer seat, though. Thing is, all that stuff makes it stronger at resale time, which we all know is important for me.

But what's it worth to me? Ehhh... call it a grand, I suppose.

So, let's see... 2011 with 16k little miles, premium, some cool graphics. So let's say a 2013 like this would be appealing to me at like $27-27,5. Knock off 2 years at 8k miles per year... I think $24k would be a decent enough price.
The 2012 has about the same miles. I guess around $25k would work.
The 2012 base with 500 miles and cool color... $24k.

Wife made a good point this morning. I'd probably have a worse time trading my car to a bmw dealer. That car is black on black, which isn't appealing to me, either. So I'll probably take that one off the list.

stickguy

continuing my saga, that needs to lead to a sales story or 2 soon. Get the kids TL down to the dealer (by know, he has the night drop off down to a science). the CEL is blinking and TCS light on. He said it seemed to drive OK, but was not smooth at idle. so something is going on, we should know Tuesday. But, thankfully it got there under it's own power.

get back, and lucky me, a spot right in front of the house he lives in (on an extremely steep street). we go inside for about 1/2 hour, and come out to walk downtown for graduation dinner, and I notice the saturn I parked behind is now up against my front fascia (on the RDX). and a cop and some girl are there. Turns out, the dim bulb 2 cars up (2007 Mercury midsize) managed to back into the saturn hard enough to shift it sideways a bit, and push it into my car.

I back up, and thankfully the saturn stays put. My only damage was to my front plate and the plastic dealer surround. I think, will know for sure tomorrow when I take it off and check, but the bumper skin looked fine, the plate holder protrudes about 3" and seems to have "caught" the saturn's back bumper (a well matched car to hit me!).

so fast forward to after dinner, when we are loading the car (kid graduated today, so helping him move out). While I am out there, the people in the saturn come back. And the girl driving stinks at driving a stick, and promptly rolls right back into me trying to get the car moving up hill. Plate now looks even worse, but pretty sure that was it.

so space of 2 hours, I get hit in the front twice.

Oh, and to top it all off, shortly after we leave to head home, my son (now stranded carless until the dealer can do something with it) trips on his steps, and ends up in the emergency room getting 8 stiches in his lower lip.

not a good day, though he did graduate, and won an award from his department for best senior project. so now he is technically an unemployed college grad with no transportation!