Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

cotmc

I generally agree, but here are a few other non-FWD cars, with rear seats (ignoring 2-seaters, such as the Miata), whose street prices can be found in the mid to upper 20s:

Mazda RX-8 (RWD)
MazdaSpeed 6 (AWD)
Volvo S40 T5 AWD
Suburu Legacy GT (AWD)

michaellno

Well, the base Dodge Charger starts at 22K or so, but not sure that you could define it as "compact". Also, no stick is available.

From what I've heard, the 1-series has terrible space utilization.

I, too, am optimistic that the Kappa platform (Solstice, Sky, Opel/Vauxhall GT) might spawn a sedan, coupe or hatchback variant down the road. The plant in Delaware is cranking out all the convertibles the market can absorb at the moment.

Hmm, 20K for an EX-L Accord? I know you got one of the leftover '05 models after the new '06 models were released, but I wonder if that price is possible this year?

british_rover

GM build a mid sized sports sedan using the 4.2 liter inline six out of the trailblazer/envoy.

Lots of torque a real modern engine with DOHC and variable valve timing and probably decent gas mileage too.

graphicguy

q...stickguy.....I looked at the G35. Nice car. Similar to the Z (at least in coupe form). As you point out, I thought the interior was "cheezy". I actually liked the interior of the Z better. Build quality wasn't very impressive for the price either (had the radio knob fall off during the test drive....I know, probably was an isolated thing, but still......). I was more interested in the M, though. It's a big step up in driving dynamics, build/materials over the G.

Probably my lack of experience with FWD, but I never could get a decent launch with the TL and was always aware of the steering wheel tug, even when I was expecting it. Aside from that, I think the Accord V6 driving dynamics would be very similar to the TL. Nice materials inside....built well....had all the toys in it.

First impressions of the german iron was "craftmanship" when I looked inside and out. I don't know if the materials are actually better in a BMW or Audi compared to a Lexus, but it certainly seemed that way to me. Leather felt better. Controls operated with a precision feel. The Audi and BMW just feel better. It's definitely a step up compared to the TL. Even the wood in the BMW and Audi looks and feels better compared to what I observed in both the M series and the IS. That doesn't even begin to touch on the superior driving dynamics and the superior ride/handling of the German marks over the Lexus. the Infiniti M gets a little closer as does the GS series for Lexus (but now you are entering a negotiated price near $50K).

This price segment is as crowded with good cars as the segment the Accord, Camry, etc compete in.

Looking in the price range, which I define as the high $30s-low $40s...there's the BMW 330i, Audi A6 (with big discounts right now), IS 350, M35, Benz C series....6 cyl (which I crossed off my list almost immediately after the test drive)....Caddy STS (surprisingly competent and big discounts now, too). No clunkers with any of them.

Still, I've narrowed it down to the A6 and 330i.

True about lease terms. I would imagine what is/isn't allowed would vary by financial institution. But, even after I negotiate my best deal, I got hit with aquisition fees, bank fees, etc up front. And then disposition fees, wear and tear fees, etc on the back end. It didn't make my "good deal" look so good any more.

Hope to pull the trigger on something this week.

qbrozen

Hmm, 20K for an EX-L Accord? I know you got one of the leftover '05 models after the new '06 models were released, but I wonder if that price is possible this year?

So far, I don't think so. You're still looking at a bit over $21k at the moment. But it is only July.

oregonboy

I guess I could always move back to a compact PU to get the RWD/stick combo!

As I read your post, I was thinking the same thing. I drive a 2wd, V6, 5-spd Tacoma... but it has no (real) back seat, as it is an extended cab, not a crew-cab.

I know many out there will scoff, but it actually handles quite well (on smooth pavement) since I added a rear sway-bar. No torque steer (of course), and a touch of power-on oversteer. But if the road gets lumpy, all bets are off :P

The problem is that compact pickups, with the exception of the Ranger, have grown in recent years to the point that they are no longer compact. And good luck finding a stick in a compact crew-cab.

james

woodyww

I'm trying to keep up with all this........if you bought a 330i, would you also buy a GT500? (the "shelby" GT500?--I'm still salivating over the article & pics in the July R&T.....).

Of course, keeping the TL would be the most "sensible" idea, & will probably depreciate far less than most bmw's. The 330i would be a sweet ride tho (would you get the Sport Package?). The Shelby GT 500 seems like......something that could remedy even a fairly severe Male mid-life Crisis......(altho I think it's aggrevating mine just reading about it).....

woodyww

He could get a heck of a Camry for $42K! If the stock market & his mutual fund continue to do well, maybe he could pay cash for a new--or recent--Porsche 911 at some point.

Would make it worth it to drive around in a Camry for 14 years!

jlawrence01

Belieev it or not, he is looking at the Corolla as that is almost identical to the size of his old Camry. I am trying to talk him "up" to a Matrix .... but there is a reason why the man has money ...

At 50, he has had three or four cars.

durability05

A mustang GT 5 speed , can be purchased for $25,000. I opted for a premium deluxe pony package V6 convertible. The convertible is a notchback, looks great, and has almost 50/50 weight distribution and can get to 60 mph in 7 seconds. You don't need a buckboard riding compact pickup truck.

mark156

My Uncle, who is almost 79, has owned six cars in his driving career.

1949 Chevrolet deluxe 4 door (Black)
1953 Chevrolet BelAir 4 door (Green w/creme painted top)
1963 Chevrolet Impala 2 door (Blue w/white painted top)
1974 Dodge Dart Swinger 2 door (Blue w/white vinyl top)
1988 Chevrolet Celebrity 4 door (Blue)
2002 Chevrolet Impala 4 door (Dark Bronze Mist)

All cars were bought new and he paid cash..... smart man.

Mark156

corvette

I wish Ford would offer Advancetrac instead of basic traction control on the Mustang (and their other cars, for that matter). I wouldn't say it's an absolute requirement, but it's very easy for me to remove a car from consideration if it has too few safety features.

gsemike

How do you like the V6 engine? I've heard that it's kind of unrefined but has decent power.

lemmer

Carmax offered me $24K, and that seems fair. I was going to take it down and sell it to them yesterday, but a friend of mine had his battery die, so I let him drive it to work. One of his coworkers went to lunch with him in it and long story short, I told his coworker he could have it for $25K and he agreed.

This guy has cash to pay. I still have a loan on the car. What is the best way to handle a transaction like this?

anonymousposts

He gives you the certified check or cash. You pay your bank off, they send you the title, and once you receive the title sign it over. In the meantime you both sign a bill of sale that states the title will be released once the loan is PIF. If you bank at a local branch go in with the cash and see if they can give you the title then.

It's really going to depend on who your bank is.

lemmer

The loan is through Infiniti, so I can't do it in person. Thanks for the advice.

anonymousposts

One more word of advice. Pay it off with certified funds. If you send a personal check Infiniti will not release the title until your check clears or 7 business days. Certified funds will speed up the release.

graphicguy

woody....my car ownership in the past 2.5+ years confuses me, too.....LOL!

Here's are the cars I've had in that period of time....

--'04 Mazda RX8 (dandy car....tons of fun....). Rear ended by an F series pickup that was "jacked up". My RX8 was totaled as a result. I got the insurance check.
--'05 Mustang GT....fast and fun. Bought it (actually ordered it), all loaded up, with the exception of an automatic transmission for $25.5K (X-plan). This was when Ford could not keep up with demand. Got one of the first ones delivered to my area. Kept it 9 mos and about 6K miles. Turned around and sold it for $27K....$1,500 more than I paid for it.
--'05 Acura TL w/Nav. Nice car. Had all the bells and whistles. Good power. But, FWD....that drove me nuts. Wasn't really thinking about selling it until the neighbor of the guy who bought my Mustang (knowing how I change cars with the same frequency as Paris Hilton changes boyfriends) said "....let me know when you want to sell the Acura...". We tossed around some numbers to see if he was serious. He was. I had bought the TL for $31.9 as the '06s were rolling on the lot. Sold that for $31K and change. It still smelled new.

I've still got a 4Runner I'm using as a daily driver and my son, who's 20 and living at home as a college student, has a Hyundai Elantra (which, after 4 years of ownership is proving to be a very good and reliable vehicle). I use the 4Runner for Home Depot duty and to tow a couple of SeeDoos.

With the TL gone, the Audi A6Q 3.2 (which is being discounted about $9K around these parts) and the 330i (which is being discounted about $2,500) are both in the same price ballpark, are the leading replacement vehicles. Neither of those are FWD, of course.

I love the way the 330i drives. I'm having a hard time dismissing the "clearance" discount on the A6, though. 330i is a smaller car, but that's not an issue for me (bachelor with no kids to haul around).

From what I've read, Audi has gone through a little bout of reliability issues lately. But, they offer no cost maintenance. The Audi dealership offers pick-up and delivery service at no charge, too.

The 330i dealership offers the same as the Audi dealership as far as pick-up & delivery, plus they offer loaner cars at no charge, too. From what I've read, BMW's bugaboos have more to do with people not understanding the I-Drive than anything else. Personally, after having a nav system in the TL, I find the I-Drive better since you don't have to take your eyes off the road to operate it (it uses a little knob between the seats that falls readily to my hand). Audi's is similar.

Regarding the GT500, I put my name on my dealership's list for one way back when they were first announced. I've since seen one a couple of times at the auto shows. The dealership will give my "rights of first refusal". At the proposed selling price of $39K-$40K, I might be interested. Since that time, there are stories about Ford upping production of them (making them less collectible). And, I don't think for a minute that dealerships are going to sell them anywhere near the MSRP price (way higher). So, I probably won't be a buyer.

qbrozen

I didn't realize you already sold the TL. Good grief!

graphicguy

q....that's the entire reason I'm here. For the last couple of years, I think I "qualify" as a chronic car buyer.

BTW....I finally decided.....just pulled the trigger on the 330i over the phone just a little bit ago. I pick it up tonight.

kyfdx

Jake? Or, the Store?

qbrozen

congrats on the benz. enjoy.

i'm pretty darned sure you qualified before selling the TL.

british_rover

330i would be a Beamer.

qbrozen

doh! of course i knew that. i type faster than i think sometimes. they both start with "b."

by the way, i've been corrected long ago that its "bimmer," although its pronounced with a long e sound. i don't agree with it, but I abide by it.

graphicguy

ky...went with Jake.

Both dealerships are good, as you know. Jake was a little more generous with the discounts (about $200 more generous) and had what I was interested in color/options wise.

Felt badly about telling the sales guy at the Store about my decision about an hour or so, ago. He really did try very hard to find what I wanted and to "make the deal". But, we hit a wall over that last $200.

Bottom line, the kicker was probably talking to the SM at Jake's place. My sales person has the day off. SM was calling me (at the request of the sales person) for a "yay" or "nay" on their latest offer. We were within a couple hundred of where the deal needed to be. I told the SM over the phone that if they could come down $200 and throw in mats and the wood shifter/brake handle I'd be inclined to buy from them. He said, without hesitation...."We were already being aggresive before on the price, but I can do that". We verbally went over all the numbers on the phone and agreed.

Told him to have it written up and ready for delivery after work today. He said everything would be ready.

For those of you who don't know what kyfdx and I are talking about, there are two BMW dealerships in our area (SW Ohio/northern KY)....one is Jake Sweeney BMW and the other one is called, ironically, The BMW Store.

graphicguy

i'm pretty darned sure you qualified before selling the TL

Yeah Q, you're right about that.....LOL!

woodyww

Supposedly, "bimmer" is for bmw cars, "bemer" (sp?) is for bmw motorcycles, according to the Roundel mag. I think.

woodyww

The only thing I'd say is: with selling it to carmax, they would have dealt with all the paperwork, dealt with your finance company, etc. (I assume), & cut you a check.

Selling it privately, you have to do all that yourself of course.....

qbrozen

right. (i think its beemer ... but not sure)

I believe it was shifty who explained it to me some time in the distant past.

Of course, I disagree because, as an editor, i can't accept pronouncing "bimmer" with a long "e" sound.

woodyww

I think I "qualify" as a chronic car buyer.

You may be over-qualified! But what color, options, transmission, etc. did you get?

woodyww

I'm pretty sure "bimmer" is pronounced just the way it's written, & the same for "beemer". Tell the truth tho, I've known a lot of bmw fanatics, & almost never heard either term used.....

The cognoscenti usually use the # system for the platform/generation of bmw: E24, E36, E39, etc. etc.....altho my local chapter bmwcca magazine is titled "Boston Bimmer".....

lemmer

I've sold to Carmax before and they make it really easy, but I figure the trouble is worth $1000. If the guy flakes out at all tommorrow, I will just take it Carmax.

lemmer

I'll put one more vote in for Bimmer=car, Beemer=motorcycle. I used to subscribe to Bimmer magazine; there were no motorcyles in it.

When I owned a 3-series a couple of years ago, people calling it an "Beemer" made me desperately want to get rid of the car, not because they used the wrong name but just because it sounded so pretentious either way.

graphicguy

"Beemer"...or "bimmer"....no chance of anyone around my parts being pretentious...we just got indoor plumbing... :P

woodyww

just because it sounded so pretentious either way.

Maybe it illustrates my theory(???)--that it's mainly non-bmw nuts who use those terms. I think.

Around here, expensive cars are fairly common, sort of, (lexus, bmw, m-b), so nobody really notices a 6 y.o. 5-series like mine.....or calls it "Bimmer", or "Beemer".......

graphicguy

woody....it's a 330i with the sport package (love the seats). I got the I-Drive navi, which some will crown me heretical, but I consider it better than the navi in the Acura. Lux package, cold weather package. 6-speed automatic (I know, others will beat me for this, but I found it to be the best "sport" automatic tranny I've found). Plus, either it's my advanced age (40s) or pure laziness, I find I'm quite liking modern auto transmissions these days (especially those as good as this one). Comfort access (a bit frivolous, but it was on the car, already). It allows you to keep the key fob in your pocket and just "push" a start/stop button to....well....start and stop the engine (it does some other stuff, too...like just touch the door to lock and unlock it, same with the trunk...set the mirrors and seats to my prefered position as I open the car door, etc).

I didn't get the active steering. Test drove one with active steering, but I found I liked the standard steering better. I didn't get the "pro-active" cruise control, either (where it sets a certain distance to those cars around you, and holds that distance by accelerating and braking). Thought that was more than just a little intrusive, too. Regular cruise works just fine for me.

Lesse....oh yeah, it comes with a year's worth of Sirius. I liked the XM in my TL. We'll see if I like the Sirius enough to renew the subscription after a year. Stereo is the fancy shamnzy Lexicon Logic 7 (surround sound). It's a dandy.

Ummm...it's black saphire metallic (sparkly black) with "terra cotta" interior (chocolate) and poplar real wood trim.

It had 8 miles on it the last time I test drove it. We'll see how much joy riding has been done on it since then when I go pick it up tonight.

That's all I can think of right now.

qbrozen

ugh. Where is shifty when you need him?

who would be the definitive source on the phonetic spelling?

qbrozen

quick search:
http://www.bmwccbc.org/misc/tech-and-trivia/bimmer.html
http://www.boston-bmwcca.org/reference/bimmer-beemer.aspx

boy, i feel more pretentious already.

graphicguy

q....all that does sound rather pretentious. Around here, I'll be known as the guy who drives those funny "furen cars"....particularly given we've got a Ford plant (used to be two plants) in my general vicinity.

As one fine local citizen (and Ford employee) told me once...."this is a Ford town....don't pull any of that other crap in my driveway". Of course, this was before Ford had contolling interest in Mazda, and outright ownership of Land Rover, Volvo, Jag, etc.

Wonder what my friendly Ford employee is saying now?

Maybe we can start some other slang for these marks? Jaggies? Roveys? Vulv.......ummmm, never mind.

qbrozen

maybe you could explain that Ford bought Rover from BMW ... ummmm... how that helps I'm not sure. Kinda like 6 degrees of Ford or something.

oregonboy

A lawyer opened the door of his BMW, when suddenly a car came along and hit the door, ripping it off completely. When the police arrived at the scene, the lawyer was complaining bitterly about the damage to his precious BMW. "Officer, look what they've done to my Beeeemer!!!", he whined.

"You lawyers are so materialistic, you make me sick!!!" retorted the officer, "You're so worried about your stupid BMW, that you didn't even notice that your left arm was ripped off!!!"

"Oh my gaaad....", replied the lawyer, finally noticing the bloody left shoulder where his arm once was, "Where's my Rolex???!!!!!"

from:
http://www.jokes.net/wheresmyrolex.htm

(notice that they got it wrong, "beeeemer")
james

british_rover

Well Jaguars are Jags. Land Rovers are sometimes called Landies although that is more of a UK think. Range Rovers are sometimes called Rangies but that is even less common.

corvette

Sounds like a very nice rig! I would have ordered the comfort access, but it wasn't available on early-build models.

I am enjoying the X3 loaner I'm driving. They ordered another part for my car from the fatherland, which will not arrive until Thursday.

mark156

My E430 I call "Sylveee" (It's Silver)
My Land Rover.. "Rovenia"
My Rolls.. "Rollerina"



Mark156

gee35coupe

Not that I'm arguing...But I'm trying to figure out why you have to take your eyes of the road to use the TL's NAV. I have the TSX with the same system. You have steering wheel and/or voice controls for the radio, climate, phone and NAV. Just curious.......

british_rover

I was wondering that too. I have sold a couple of TL's and TSX's used and I was very impressed with how easy it was to use the Nav system. The larger screen and scroll/joystick type nob down in the center console makes it even easier to use then the Rover nav system.

graphicguy

TLs have the "touch screen". I had to avert my eyes from the road to use it. Not saying the Acura system is bad (it's quite good), just that I had to look at the screen for touchscreen duties. Of course, all of these systems use voice commands, also....which does away with the need for any interaction.....with a knob or a touchscreen.

With the I-Drive, all I have to do is to use a voice command (for...let's say radio funcions) and use the "knob" to scroll through the stations I want...then just push the knob to select the one that suits me.

Not as easy as using pushbuttons on a radio, but with about 12 different stations for each mode (AM, FM, Sirius, etc) it makes choices a bit easier. Manually putting in addresses for Nav is a bit easier, too with the I-Drive. Using the touch screen to "type" in an address was a bit more cumbersome than using the knob to spell a name.

Not having to push a button for every command I spoke is a nice touch in the I-Drive. In the Acura, I would activate the voice commands by hitting a button on the steering wheel. Any subsequent voice commands (like simple "yes" or "no" commands) required me to press the voice command button again (which I often forgot to do....I would just bark out the next command without touching the button again...that did nothing). On I-Drive, I press one button for a voice command and subsequent commands don't require me to touch it again.

I-Drive allows me to display more than one function, too (TL does not). I can have my map and my CD functions, for example, displayed in a split screen. With the TL, it was one or the other, not both.

Having a Nav system previously, my learning curve on this one was very brief. If I never had one before, I'd find any of them to be intimidating.

kyfdx

Bimmer = car.. pronounced just the way it looks..

Beemer = motorcycle.. ditto...

That said, nearly everyone refers to the cars as "Beemers".. I even do it myself..

Congrats on the new 330i!! I'm extremely jealous....

gee35coupe

That actually prefers I-drive. That's just a new one to me. Personally, I try not to ever touch my screen. All stereo controls can be accessed by voice or steering wheel. The TL has the Audio and temperature information always displayed on the separate display above the screen. Having that information on the screen is optional. The Honda/Acura NAV is almost as much an industry standard as the 3-series' handling.

Additionally the TL's surround stereo is also regarded as one of the best in its class...
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/101037/article.html

But hey.....that's why there are so many different cars out there. Cause if someone gave me a BMW I'd trade it for something else. I'm not a big fan of German interiors. Well, I might keep a M-series or a 6MT V8 one. But they have thier own advantages.

graphicguy

ky....you've got nothing to be jealous of.....you've got a BMW convertible. I'm the one who is jealous.

Gee35....I think the first iteration of I-Drive in the 7 series was the one that was much maligned. Never used that one. I believe the one in the E90 is a bit different.

We all have our personal preferences. I prefer a split screen for all of the functions over having the TL's info at the top of the screen. That doesn't make one way better than the other, though.

All of these navi units can be daunting to the people who are new to them. They can't be totally mastered with a brief test drive, either.

Are any of them as easy to use as just push buttons to change a radio station? Nope! But, their capabilities far exceed what was available even a couple of years ago.

I was very ready to buy a 3 series without navi and save myself a couple grand. Once I spent a little time with it, I was hooked.

Last night, I spent about 30 minutes with the owners maual and I-Drive for familiarization and customization while in my garage. I like it more now, than I did before. Driving from the dealership home, I used the navi to see how accurate and routing would be. It was very good. Not a real testament, but my TLs navi put me in a circuitous route during the same drive.

I think the navi in the TL was a clarion. I don't know who makes the navi for BMW.

Regarding the stereo, I liked the one in my TL. I found it fatiguing at times because it was just a bit underpowered (and the panasonic digital amps Acura uses are known to be a bit harsh), but it was good, nonetheless. As a point of reference, I thought the Martin Logan stereo in the Lexus IS 350 to be a bit harsh. That could be because the IS uses metal drivers in their speakers....those are known for their harshness.

Bottom line, these stock units are all very good....certainly better than stock units of even a few years ago.

I consider the Lexicon (division of Harmon Kardin) Logic 7 stereo in the 330i to be a step up from the TL. Lexicon is known for more "accuracy" in their amps, though. BMW puts the sub woofers under the seats, so I can feel as well as hear the lower octaves. Bass isn't as muddy as it was in the TL. The only downside is that the 330i won't play DVD-A disks. That said, I don't own any DVD-A disks (with the exception of the one that came with my TL). So, that wasn't an issue for me. DVD-A seems to be going away, anyway. Those disks are hard to find with any of the music I'm interested in, anyway.

Lexicon's Logic 7 simulates surround sound from 2-channel sources. Plus, I was able to plug in my i-pod to the BMW (couldn't do that with the TL).