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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

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Comments

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    roadburner -
    'My wife liked it better than the 335is we checked out Saturday. '
    The 335iS you mention - did you post impressions that I missed?
    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Former driver of said BMW...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • graphicguygraphicguy Member Posts: 14,120
    RB....interesting take. Thanks! I haven't driven any of the new Mustangs. I've sat in a couple at car shows. Interior is indeed nice. I do like them and a 4 1/2 sec romp to 60 would be plenty for me.

    Trouble is, I'd have to get a daily driver if I ever got another Mustang (last one I owned was 10 years ago). So, all of a sudden, what was a $40K purchase tuns into a $50K purchase with the addition of a $10K daily driver to compliment the Mustang.

    Still, tons of fun and who can put a price on that?
    2024 Kia EV6 GT-Line AWD Long Range
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,491
    @roadburner - you've set the bar for yourself quite high with how you've tuned your MS3 exactly to your liking.  it is funny how you say the car felt slow.  I had the chance to drive my Mom's 2016 V6 Cayenne last week.  With its hefty curb weight & 300 hp NA V6 I knew it was going to be much faster than my Legacy, but far from a bahn burner.  I nailed it from a stop sign to merge onto the parkway (uphill, with traffic barreling down towards me).  Before I knew it, I looked down at the speedo and was going well over 80 mph.  Not quick, but deceptively fast.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    stickguy said:



    I would guess that the drive experience will be a 180 from a FWD Mazda. I assumed you wanted a big, front heavy sled feel, considering that is what you were looking at!

    53/47 weight distribution isn't exactly what I would classify as front heavy, though. Just slightly off balance. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,325
    rayainsw said:

    roadburner -
    'My wife liked it better than the 335is we checked out Saturday. '
    The 335iS you mention - did you post impressions that I missed?
    Thanks,
    - Ray
    Former driver of said BMW...

    I haven't really discussed it. It is one of the few newer BMWs that I've considered. The car I looked at is a manual in LM Blue with the sole option being CWP. Not even leather. Perfect for me since it has upgraded cooling, more power and a nice exhaust. The dealer is asking almost $4k more than I believe the car is worth. In addition-and I'm sure most will find it silly-my wife already drives an E90. Yes, the 335is is MUCH faster and handles MUCH better- but I'd kind of like something different. Stupid, I know...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    edited August 2015
    I see. Thanks.
    I did enjoy driving the 335iS - a lot.
    Good luck in your ongoing quest !
    - Ray
    Ex-BMW driver...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Been a way a bit, but a couple of comments - bried, your technology package cost only a few hundred dollars less than my whole Miata! Obviously we can play this game at different price points.

    Speaking of price point, stick - man you gotta stop posting cars like that at prices like that and an easy drive for me. I'm not talking about the Element. Dang.

    Road trips are great. Can keep myself way entertained on one. Crank up the tunes and roll. I have a potential funny one coming along. A friend of mine has this pretty close to irresistible calico kitten. I'm a sucker for such things. Thing is he is in Woodstock, ON - 9 hours of road plus stops. I've got some other friends up there so that makes it more tempting.

    I did a longer road trip last year just to meet up with one of the characters in here (he can reveal himself if he'd like). Involved an hotel stop there and back and some really dramatic hills.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    fezo said:

    I did a longer road trip last year just to meet up with one of the characters in here (he can reveal himself if he'd like). Involved an hotel stop there and back and some really dramatic hills.

    That's what I'm talking about! Visiting just for the sake of having a good excuse to make a road trip. B)

    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Hotels are optional, but not skipping the (local) restaurants.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    You bet! That was a great one. Fun trip and great guy at the other end.

    Still thinking about 9 hours each way to get a cat. If they made it harder to bring a cat into the states I'd have given it up but they don't have any restrictions at all. Basically the customs site says "nice cat."
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    i can't imagine trying to drive for 9 hrs with a cat in the car

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    Depends on the cat - we moved two to the UP from Boise five years back. That was like three days. Mostly they sleep, just like they do anywhere else. :p
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Indeed. This is a just weaned kitten. She'll sleep for hours on end. A little cat food and a carrier no big deal.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    stever said:

    Hotels are optional, but not skipping the (local) restaurants.

    Well, I didn't say we *never* eat at restaurants while traveling, we just don't make a habit of it. We will typically include two meals at restaurants during a week of traveling, plus the random Subway stop for those days where the driving isn't going according to plan. One advantage of that, though, is that the stops you do make tend to be memorable. :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    fezo said:

    Indeed. This is a just weaned kitten. She'll sleep for hours on end. A little cat food and a carrier no big deal.

    I had great luck with my cat on our travels. We took her with us on vacation one year (she was a yearling, IIRC), and while she just hid under the chair in the motor home during the first few legs of the trip, by the end she spent the driving day stretched out across the dash soaking up the rays. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,325
    qbrozen said:

    i can't imagine trying to drive for 9 hrs with a cat in the car

    Depends on the size of the glove box...

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694

    qbrozen said:

    i can't imagine trying to drive for 9 hrs with a cat in the car

    Depends on the size of the glove box...

    Or ice chest.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    Way back in late high school or early college I had a kitten that used to love riding in the glovebox. Of course this was in a 54 Mercedes which had a wooden flat door that opened to a perfectly horizontal shelf. The cat would be half in the glovebox and half on the shelf. After a bit he wasn't anywhere near so calm and we had to stop that.

    I have a couple perfectly good cat carriers and if the cat wants to complain my stereo can drown out a cat.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,386
    xwesx said:

    fezo said:

    I did a longer road trip last year just to meet up with one of the characters in here (he can reveal himself if he'd like). Involved an hotel stop there and back and some really dramatic hills.

    That's what I'm talking about! Visiting just for the sake of having a good excuse to make a road trip. B)

    You bet. If you didn't live in frikkin' Alaska I'd be all set.....
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    Dog/cat, Ford/Chevy, Blue State/Red State.

    Figured that this thread would ferret out some posts. :D

    Could do the end of September Anchorage south road trip with my friend who winters in TX. It'd be more fun than his May trips up where he barely stops. One of these days.... He doesn't do hotels either, but his idea of road trip food is a bag of Cheetos. :p
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    Went to pick up the S4 earlier this afternoon and ended up leaving with something different. Not as practical, but sure is cool looking.


    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    Just kidding, of course (not that any of you would put it past me).

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    edited August 2015
    The actual purchased Audi in the driveway. Some had asked for some interior shots, so I included some of those too. Hard to see in pictures how nice the "Nappa Leather" upgrade is, but it's worth the money. I also love the layered wood/aluminum trim - something different than the usual wood or carbon fiber. Sort of like a nice pin-stripe suit. :)









    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • roadburnerroadburner Member Posts: 18,325
    VERY nice!!!

    Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
    Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
    Son's: 2018 330i xDrive

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,168
    VERY nice!!!
    +1  on that! 

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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    Real nice!!! love the led head lamps, very similar to our A3. Just love the headlights and tail lights of her car so much...makes me wish I had gone for the lighting package on my Golf. Funny thing is, the first blue one I test drove had it on the vehicle and my sales guy tried his best to get me to pull the trigger on it. Now a bit sorry I turned it down...also the push button start. For someone who didn't like it at first, a bit sorry I don't have it now...guess it's very easy to change one's mind when one gets to live with things for awhile. That Jetta loaner had it, and I was hooked after a couple of days!
    Funny, after getting a chance to finally drive the wife's A3 this weekend, decided I really really really like it and if she decides to make a change earlier than expected, would think very hard about taking it over. Her miles are about 2K less than mine right about now and it really is a stunning looking vehicle when all cleaned up. The black leather is flawless and even though we have the same engine, it drives a bit better than my Golf...have a feeling it's tuned a bit differently. Why else would they recommend premium if it was exactly the same! Seriously, as much as I do like my VW, and I really do like it, hers just seems to be a cut above...the A3 is an 11 on the 1 to 10 driving fun meter. Very glad we have it in our stable so I can get to run it every so often and glad I've got the 3/4 version as my daily driver!!!
    Life is good at Casa Sandman!!

    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,681
    edited August 2015
    LOL; I read the post w/ the toy in it and thought, "What?! BS....." and then scrolled to the next post. It is good to know that you are still the sensible one we all know and love. Hahha!

    That interior looks so very, very comfy. I look at the console and dash and feel a bit of button overload, much as I did when looking at the same in Carnaught's new Lexus! As with his, it seems like everything is laid out fairly well, it would just take a bit of getting used to it for me.

    Congrats! You going car shopping this weekend or taking a small break? :p

    Edit: I just noticed.... no hand brake! It is sad that these seem to be going away....
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    Coming home from work, I was in a great deal of back pain and wasn't paying attention. Looked up and saw a highway patrol car up ahead and I was doing 85 in a 70 zone and he put his lights on and started to move. I just knew he was after me!! I hit the brakes immediately, dumb move really, and started to move over a couple of lanes so I could pull over...felt like I was gonna pass out from the back pain and the fear of getting pulled over. Well, don't ya know, he gets behind the black Celica next to me and proceeds to stop him! Man, I must've thanked G-d about 20 times as I settled down and proceeded on home doing exactly 70 the whole ways home. Talk about lucky, I was sure he was going to nail my butt and another ticket is all I need right now!!!
    Guess I need to slow it down a bit and this was just the reminder I needed to slow 'er down in the future!! G-d was definitely on my side today!!


    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,491
    @breld - GORGEOUS!

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Congrats on the Audi. Is that trim like an inlay? Interesting.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    nice.

    Audi still makes a stick shift? And only 6 speeds, too. How quaint. :D

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,341
    speaking of VWs, daughter took the Jetta back to school (went part way yesterday and stayed over with her cousin 1/2 way, and went the rest of the way this AM). reported that the TC showed that today's 4 hour/250 miles run (+/-), including some local after she filled up yesterday in VA, 37.5 MPG. Pretty impressive, since that is not a real slow leg, and it was stuffed full of junk.

    that 1.8t is a great combo of MPG and performance.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • slorenzenslorenzen Member Posts: 694
    xwesx said:

    LOL; I read the post w/ the toy in it and thought, "What?! BS....." and then scrolled to the next post. It is good to know that you are still the sensible one we all know and love. Hahha!

    That interior looks so very, very comfy. I look at the console and dash and feel a bit of button overload, much as I did when looking at the same in Carnaught's new Lexus! As with his, it seems like everything is laid out fairly well, it would just take a bit of getting used to it for me.

    Congrats! You going car shopping this weekend or taking a small break? :p

    Edit: I just noticed.... no hand brake! It is sad that these seem to be going away....

    " I look at the console and dash and feel a bit of button overload"

    This coming from a guy that owns a '69 Chevy pick-'em-up truck!

    LOL!

    Me too...

    I still get lost working the HVAC controls on the wife's Accord...

    :D
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    Thanks all for the kind comments!

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    xwesx said:

    LOL; I read the post w/ the toy in it and thought, "What?! BS....." and then scrolled to the next post. It is good to know that you are still the sensible one we all know and love. Hahha!

    That interior looks so very, very comfy. I look at the console and dash and feel a bit of button overload, much as I did when looking at the same in Carnaught's new Lexus! As with his, it seems like everything is laid out fairly well, it would just take a bit of getting used to it for me.

    Congrats! You going car shopping this weekend or taking a small break? :p

    Edit: I just noticed.... no hand brake! It is sad that these seem to be going away....

    Yeah, it will take some getting used to not having thr traditional handbrake.

    And yes, definitely will be taking a little break from car shopping with these particularly indulgent purchases. :)

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    fintail said:

    Congrats on the Audi. Is that trim like an inlay? Interesting.

    Yeah, audi calls it a layered aluminum/black wood inlay.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    qbrozen said:

    nice.

    Audi still makes a stick shift? And only 6 speeds, too. How quaint. :D

    It could indeed use an extra gear on the highway. Approaching 80 mph, it was at 3k RPMs. But, I suppose beggars cNt be choosers with the stick these days. One of my justifications for pulling the trigger now is I'm assuming the stick won't be available on the next A4/S4. I'll be shocked if it is.

    What's really quaint is the exclusion of any USB ports on the car. :)

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    stickguy said:

    speaking of VWs, daughter took the Jetta back to school (went part way yesterday and stayed over with her cousin 1/2 way, and went the rest of the way this AM). reported that the TC showed that today's 4 hour/250 miles run (+/-), including some local after she filled up yesterday in VA, 37.5 MPG. Pretty impressive, since that is not a real slow leg, and it was stuffed full of junk.

    that 1.8t is a great combo of MPG and performance.

    I agree - it's a gem of an engine.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Looks great @breld, great color. What ate the three "slots" to the right of the shifter? And what's the dial for underneath the slots? Volume maybe, but there's a black "thumblock" gizmo with it?
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,918
    edited August 2015
    stever said:

    Looks great @breld, great color. What are the three "slots" to the right of the shifter? And what's the dial for underneath the slots? Volume maybe, but there's a black "thumblock" gizmo with it?

    Thanks! The "high gloss black" package works well with the white.

    Not sure what those slots are for to tell you the truth. The wife's GTI had similar slots and she could store cards in them (like her access card for our office). But the ones in the S4 aren't deep enough.

    And yes, that dial is for the volume. I like the location of it - mazda copied it on their system too. Smart.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,282
    Still waiting on the police report, officer didn't finish it and then went on vacation. He's back but the evidence clerk is out until Friday and nobody else can do anything but her.

    I'm going to have to give up and get a rental car under our policy if something doesn't happen before Sunday. Hubby goes back to work and takes the '12 Focus with him. That leaves the Explorer and the Silverado. I do not want to feed the Silverado's never ending appetite! Need to leave the Explorer for my daughter to drive.

    Ended up having to take little man in to the dr and it looks like he has whiplash too. We have been thinking something was up since he's barely slept since the accident, just had to wait for his dr to get back.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,198
    breld said:

    The actual purchased Audi in the driveway. Some had asked for some interior shots, so I included some of those too. Hard to see in pictures how nice the "Nappa Leather" upgrade is, but it's worth the money. I also love the layered wood/aluminum trim - something different than the usual wood or carbon fiber. Sort of like a nice pin-stripe suit. :)









    Nice car, so was the yellow one. I didn't know Audis came in colors other than black. ;)

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • rayainswrayainsw Member Posts: 3,192
    breld - excellent!
    Enjoy!
    [ At least for a few months ??? ]
    - Ray
    Like a lot about Audis...
    2022 X3 M40i
  • js06gvjs06gv Member Posts: 460
    What's really quaint is the exclusion of any USB ports on the car. :)

    Really? Is that typical for an Audi? Is there an alternative to them, meaning Audi has moved forward from USB ports to something more advanced or does it just seem like an oversight?

    2024 Ram 1500 Longhorn, 2019 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, 2019 Ford Mustang GT Premium, 2016 Kia Optima SX, 2000 Pontiac Trans Am WS6

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 262,168
    And yes, definitely will be taking a little break from car shopping with these particularly indulgent purchases. :)
    Uh huh. Sure.

    I think the daughter's A3 goes before the end of the year.

    Edmunds Price Checker
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    2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 5,068
    What's really quaint is the exclusion of any USB ports on the car. :)
    -- just the way the German makes didn't think cup holders belonged in their cars back in the day.
    '24 Kia Sportage PHEV
    '24 Chevy Blazer EV 2LT
  • carnaughtcarnaught Member Posts: 3,576
    BRELD, are those gills or slots on the console for coins, tolls, and the like?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,736
    good grief, even my base model Honda Fit has a USB port. That's really surprising to me.

    Does yours have the tech package? Wondering if that adds USB or not. The website says "ipod integration," which may or may not mean usb.

    Since I was there, I priced one how I'd want it, which is to say everything except the Black Optic package. $56,775. Ouch. That's a pricey compact.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited August 2015
    lol, guess I'm not the only one curious about those slots. Someone over at Yahoo says "its an interior pollen and charcoal filter intake"

    Maybe you can stick a butter knife in there and see what gives? :p
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 7,218
    My '15 VW Golf has no USB ports either, this mistake has been rectified in the 2016 model. Haven't looked in the wife's A3 yet but don't remember if it has any USB ports either. Stick sent me a link in Amazon to use the iPod plug-in with an add on to provide a USB port but I didn't copy it down so it's floating in this forum somewhere.
    And have to agree, the 1.8t engine is a gem!!

    The Sandman :)B)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2025 VW GTI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

This discussion has been closed.