Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

woodyww

I need to get my head examined for becoming so indecisive

With all due respect, I think I've set a few world records for being the car-buying-indecision Champ..... --you'd have to go a lot further than you have to beat me.

But, forget the used Hyundai--they have horrible resale & reps. What about a New Civic--it's almost a "no brainer" in it's class. If a new Accord, I'd say wait until summer to see if they have any great deals. Or, wait until the new model Accord comes out.

PS: what are the prices on the cars you mentioned?

growwise

Prices are in CAD so they will seem rather high than USD.

New cars: (MSRPs are higher but prices are given by salesmen)
Sonata - 22k low end model 0% @ 60
Elantra - 19k (loaded) 2.9% 60 months
Civic - 20k LX 4.9% 60
Versa - 17k sedan 4.9% 60
Accord - 25k 3.9% @ 60
Camry - 25k (Accord has moon roof and alloy wheels but not camry) 5.9%? not sure

Used cars:
03 Maxima - 14.5K loaded 88k km - less than 60k mi
03 3.2TL - 16k loaded - around 60k mi
Financing rate on used cars is at 8%

My firstborn will arive (keeping fingers crossed) around April/May and my inlaws will be in town. So a car seat and two adults in the back might be tight squeeze in a civic. But it wont be a deal breaker.

Honda salesman said that interest rate might drop to 1.9% on Accord while other incentives like 1k or 2k cashback and 1k gas card might be in order.

qbrozen

if you want to fit 2 adults and a carseat, you can scratch off the civic, versa, and elantra, i believe.

I think the Accord is the winner. Is that a VP model?

And I agree that you should hold out as long as you can. The incentives are bound to get better.

growwise

You are right.. I think I quoted Accord SE less (special edition 4 cyl) Its probably 2k more.. same with camry.

qbrozen

oh, ok ... VP is no moonroof, right?

...no ... wait a sec. there's no moonroof on either SE or VP? I'm not sure. Canada could be completely different, too.

I was just thinking, though, if you are looking at an LX Civic, maybe you should compare that to an LX Accord?

andre1969

with regards to using a car seat, but I found the Elantra and the latest Civic surprisingly roomy inside. I'm 6'3", yet had no trouble fitting in the back seat of either one, and that's with the front seat all the way back!

Of those new choices though, I think I like the Accord the best. I like it better than the Camry, and while I want to like the Sonata, I think I'd just trust the Accord more. Plus, the improved resale value.

growwise

There's no LX in canada. DX-G is probably more like it. SE is a step up with moonroof, alloys etc.. So its probably like 6k more than civic LX. SE is 1700 bucks more than DX-G and salesman convinced me that moonroof and alloys for 1700 bucks is a good deal. There could be other minor differences.. didnt look too carefully.

I know it doesnt make sense comparing a used lux car with a new compact and then throwing a new midsize into the mix. But resale is high on accords and finance rate and rebate might justify the difference.

Have to first get rid of my car which is becoming a major pain in the neck. Have to do private sale. There are some issues with it as well (not powertrain wise but the rest).

My first major indecision came about deciding how long to keep it. It took an idiot light and some annoying noises to make up my mind. Besides, arrival of my first child is a perfect opportunity to convince the missus

corvette

Not sure what the MAF issue is on a Maxima, but I remember from reading the VeeDub boards that it was a common failure with VWs as well. I don't think it's a major repair, and the newer parts are probably more failure-resistant if it's a widespread problem. Allegedly, the failures occur more often with cars that have aftermarket oiled gauze air filters.

The TL is probably more of a "driver's" car. I like cars with leather and sunroofs, so I'd probably lean towards a clean used one. It looks like your payments would be less, so that should help offset any unexpected repairs.

qbrozen

I know the TL tranny issue was blown up to more than it should have been ... but it is an issue that would worry me, nonetheless.

corvette

Yeah, I'd worry more about a potential transmission failure than a potential MAF replacment, but I'd factor it somewhat into the price I'd be willing to pay for the car. Also, other than the small potential of a premature transmission failure, everything else on the Acura will probably be as tough as nails.

boomchek

The SE Accord addsa alloys, moonroof, alarm system, power seat height adjustment, lumbar support, and 4 wheel discs with EBD.

It's a good value, and we are moving a lot of them right now on the west coast.

Don't forget that if you get a TL, premium gas is recommended (although not necessary), and so it might cost you a tad more to operate.

andres3

$13,250 with 64K miles. A bit less than private party TMV on Edmunds for clean condition, but it took me forever to sell this 2 door coupe!

Anyway, the guy got a great deal, he'll have a car that'll go 200K more, and my repair cost was zero dollars and zero cents over the first 64,000 miles; typical Honda.

growwise

Maybe you're right. I probably am just trying to justify a new car purchase by finding some ruse... nonetheless, there is some risk associated with used cars.

Here is a sample of used cars that caught my eye
TL:
http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=1306882&adid=5387202

Max:
http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=1250818&adid=5777363
(heated steering wheel, bose stereo etc)

I dont see a method to used car pricing madness. You can find same exact model year/price/trim with varying mileages. Go figure.. :confuse:

boomchek

These are nice cars at decent prices, cheaper than out here in Vancity.

Keep in mind though that warranties are about to expire on them and last thing you need with a baby and that is dumping money into a used car. Especially when financing it.

The 2001 MB C240 I picked up a two months ago is leaking power steering fluid, turns out it needs a new pump ($1k)

And even though Maximas and TLs are little bit more reliable, there still might be expensive issues. My mgr had to replace an ABS sensor in his son's 95 Accord, it cost him about $1200.

growwise

I see that both require premium fuel and maintenance items like Timing belt/water pump/spark plugs/multi belt/brakes/tires etc might be in order as well.

More than that, I think I am craving for that new car smell Buying new is different and the last I bought new was 5 and half years ago. Before that I used to change cars every year and perhaps I atoned enough for my past sins

woodyww

CR gives solid black marks (bad!) to the auto trans on the '99 thru '03 TL's, & then red marks (good) on the 04's & 05's.

I wonder about the cost/availability of an Acura ext. warranty on a used Acura?

woodyww

I almost bought a New E30 318is manual when they were current--great car! And I test drove a slightly used E30 325is manual around the same time-Wow--I still remember it--it was like a small rocket ship. Those little "boxy" looking 3-series bmw's were the real deal.

kyfdx

I still want one..

ponderpoint

Trying to justify a new car purchase? Even with the fantastic reliability of the Honda and Acura brand, there are hard reasons for new..... and it involves the new car smell!

The last used car I ever bought was meticulously cleaned by the previous owner. This isn't unusual of course, but I noted a scent that was pleasant, but seemed fake. I asked the seller if he ever smoked in the car and was trying to cover up the smell. He triumphantly pulled out the lighter and the coils were completely clean. In a matter of time, the car once again revealed its true odor, and it involved heavy smoking. We lived in a small town, and I found out later, the seller had merely plucked a lighter from the salvage yard and replaced the original lighter, quite a common trick as it turns out. He was an individual that loved new cars, but his two addictions required shafty means to get the best price for the car he was selling.

That was the last used car I ever bought! The problem with used cars is that there is ALWAYS something wrong with it and the seller will ALWAYS have something they don't reveal to you.

lilengineerboy

I don't know, the ABS sensor for the Accord was only $150 when I replaced one. Maybe it was the whole ABS hydraulic system that got replaced, that is more like 7-800 in parts.
Every now and again my ABS groans and I think about having to do that $700 repair and cringe, but given the age/mileage of the car, it will be totaled out at that point.
Mainstream vehicles (FusCamCord, FocCivRolla) are easy to find inexpensive parts for, both new and used. European cars are in the US in significantly lower numbers, making parts availability (and the people who work on them) harder to find and more expensive.

lilengineerboy

I have yet to have a new car. I have always had used cars or hand-me-downs. I have had very good luck with the used cars I've purchased and letting depreciation work for me has been a big help. I purchased both of them from dealers.
Actually, the worst cars were the ones I inherited, they required significant amounts of work pretty much as soon as I got them.

ponderpoint

Yep! Worst car I ever had was a Ford Maverick from a family member. Truly a curse not to have financial capability to end that trap.

I had to admit, the "smoker" car did work well for quite some time, and I believe it's maintenance-free stance for a long period greatly helped my finances, enabling me later in life to enjoy a new car.

akangl

I go away for a couple days and the bets are all made!

I'm not going to buy the Charger, sure I like the car, but I really need my truck. Maybe later on down the road when I can have both.

I'm going to buy a Chrysler ESC for my truck, its $2100 for 5 years/100k, not too expensive really.

Let's see, what else happened. Oh yeah, we sold our 18' car hauler trailer yesterday. Paid $4195 for it in October of 2003 and sold it for $4000. Not too bad considering we used the heck out of it and it did have some cosmetic flaws, all relatively minor though. I wish cars held their value like that!

I will probably have the instrument cluster replaced in my truck, just have to be able to drop it off for a week. The dome light thing drives me nuts!

nippononly

This is the weekend, I have four totally disparate vehicles in my beady little eye, all of them cheapies I can work on a bit that seem to be in decent shape at the moment (the test drives today and tomorrow will tell the story):

Impreza L sedan, '98, 184K

RX-7 GSL, '86, 70K original miles claimed

ES250 (yes, the very rare 5-speed stick), '91, 170K

Toyota XtraCab pick-up, 4-cylinder stick, '94, 147K

All of them are selling in the $2000-2500 range, all have their own attractions.

In the distant running is a Golf K2, '98, 125K. The VW cost factor for repairs in the second half of the car's lifespan has me having second thoughts on this one, big-time, but it is claimed to be a one-owner with good care and full maintenance records, and it is in that electric blue they had for the K2s, which I really like.

Oh, I hope one of these works out. I need to scratch the itch - it has now been a whole year since I bought a car. :-(

And BTW, I am keeping it very much in mind that a stick shift Lexus will be virtually impossible to resell if I have it a little while and it loses my fancy. So it is the runner-up among the top four. :-P

kyfdx

Is the Impreza AWD? If not, scratch that one.. No fun, either way.

RX-7? That could be more trouble than the VW, with Escalade-like MPG.

I assume the Lexus has an airbag, and not motorized mice?

If having a pickup truck would be useful to you, that would be my pick.. If that isn't that big of a deal, I'd go for the Lexus (my favorite year Camry) or the Golf K2.

The Golf would be the most enjoyable to drive on a day-to-day basis, I'd think.. if you can keep it running..

bumpy

I'd go for the ES just for the novelty factor. It will be harder to sell than an auto, but probably a bit easier than selling a stick Camry.

gogiboy

Guss--

I have and older MR2--a 92 with 59K that I just love and it always stays in the garage under a car cover. I'm so used to not having a garage, or poor (leaning)garage that only held the MR2. I'm now in hog heaven with a two-car garage. All my bikes have a place along one wall and we have space for all of our gardening and power tools. Painted the floor with the epoxy stuff that comes with flecks of color and it seems so bright and cheery.

Interestingly, there has been no battle over the second car spot. I figured my wife would use it every day especially with the sleet, snow and ice that we've had recently. Her vehicle is AWD and my daily driver is front wheel drive so maybe she took pity on me. When the weather is nice neither of us put our daily drivers in at all. We must have been conditioned by our previous, prolonged non-garage period.

Garage-happy Gogiboy

guss

In the distant running is a Golf K2, '98, 125K

But then you would have to change tour screen name. :P

As much as I like the RX-7 , that's a ton of miles on a rotary. Unless you can get it really cheap but they never go much below $2k, which actually could be a plus.

The ES250 does not have much going for it except basic transportation at this point. Not much wow there for a fun car.

I think I have to second the Toyota pick-up just for the utility of it and simplicity to work on it.

guss

I guess I am spoiled with the garage area, the recent freeze around here has kind of killed the dream...for now.

I can see why convertibles get cheap in the winter. Reality sucks.

lilengineerboy

Impreza L sedan, '98, 184K....1.8 litre not so fast not so powerful, if its not AWD there isn't much going for it. Oh and I am assuming this one is a manual trans so its not a dog beyond belief.

RX-7 GSL, '86, 70K original miles claimed ...my pick so far. 13Bs are pretty robust, its the Turbos IIs and the 3rd gen turbos ('93-95)that seem to be having the big issues.

ES250 (yes, the very rare 5-speed stick), '91, 170K ...hmmm as slow as a Camry, same drive train as a Camry, I guess its cheap enough it doesn't really matter. You are talking about a car that cost ~2k, I wouldn't worry about resale so much.

Toyota XtraCab pick-up, 4-cylinder stick, '94, 147K ...my basic transportation pick. Easy to work on, nearly impossible to kill, slow, and versatile. I think you could do worse for a couple grand.

Golf K2, '98, 125K...The K2 is a base Golf with a trim package and snow board with a rack. Its the base 2.0l which isn't going to set anyone's performance heart afire.

woodyww

I sold a 1986 reg. cab Toyota pick-up, 4-cylinder stick, with 65K miles, in 1990 I think, for $2200--& it took a few weeks to sell. Those cars you're considering all have a ton of miles--I wouldn't be afraid to make some "ridiculous" offers--like $1200--to $1500 maybe?

If you're really good at checking out used cars, take cash, & wave it around, if one strikes your fancy. Of course you know how a used car with high miles can soak up $$$$$..... and I don't know all the years of the vehicles intimately, but I like lilengineerboy's advice.

RX-7, with 70K miles, for $2K? If it checks out, it sounds tempting. Toyota P/U w/147K? Any A/C or stereo or is it totally "stripped"? Would be nice if it had some new-ish parts, shocks, tires, clutch, whatever.....nice to have the extra-cab.

nippononly

good thoughts all.

The VW 2.0 is the only VW I would buy - even VW fans have warned me away from the old 1.8T. And I have driven cars with that motor - the turbo lag is so bad you can die of old age waiting for the turbo to spool up. That's before you get to the reliability and sludge issues.

I drove the Lexus - it is very solid, and everything under the sun has been replaced. The new tires are "Federal" brand cheapies.
:-/
Anyway, turns out the guy is a smoker, which with my allergies almost certainly puts it out of the running.
Seller sounds like he is going to stick to $2500 firm too, don't think I want to go that "high".

The Toyota pick-up is an SR5 with missing wheel covers (no big deal) - the guy says in the ad that it has A/C, stereo, and cruise, and everything works. Unfortunately the ad is e-mail only, and he has yet to respond. Might be sold. :-(
That also is close to my top pick.

The Subaru is/was a 2.2L AWD, and sold in less than two days, and before I could go check it out - I had an appointment this afternoon. The guy said he got the asking price of $2200, and would call me back if the deal still falls through. Oh well. :-/

The 13B is a strong motor let down by silly issues like the excessive oil consumption and that it's so prone to flooding. If it has been well taken care of, 70K is nothing for that engine. My suspicion is, where has it BEEN all this time to have only 70K after 21 years? I will go see tomorrow.

An '88 Legend cloth with 188K has just turned up too, seller is a BHPH dealer lot, asking $3000. Might be interesting, wouldn't pay $3000 unless it was absolutely pristine.

The looking is half the fun! :-)

kyfdx

'88 Legend is a $1500 car.. at most..

nippononly

KBB says $2825 for retail for the Legend. Having said that, I know the car is overpriced, but I've always been such a sucker for that first series of Legends. :-)

kyfdx

I think once you get back to an '88, and you aren't dealing with a "classic", the books aren't worth much. Except for Edmunds, of course..

Really... you can buy a GEN II Legend, with that kind of mileage for $2500-$3000.

I loved that first generation, at that time... but, the next generation blew it away..

durability05

We are now on vehicle number 19 in 26 years, and all but 7 were brand new. However only 2 were pickup trucks. I use to drive pickup trucks before I got married, and usually kept them the usual 4 to 6 years. A few months ago I bought a brand new F150 Supercab XLT with a 5.4 V8. And I finally got that same feeling when I kept vehicles longer, only time will tell if I do keep them longer, being upside down should help. My kids like the truck better than the wife's Pilot, so we will see.

boomchek

Welcome to the club if you haven't been welcomed already

lilengineerboy

I liked the first gen Acura Legends also, with the 2.7l V6 and a 5spd. One of my friends had a sedan and the other had a coupe. The guy with the coupe still thinks it was the greatest car ever made (I do think a lot of Japanese car lines peaked in the 90s, so I kind of agree).

lilengineerboy

I posted this in the other forum but would love input.
Subaru WRXs

boomchek

I'd go for the blue one as well, it looks sharper especially with the billet looking grille, and it's not much more expensive.

Seems like that blue has become synonymous with WRX Imprezas. How can you not get a WRX in blue?

woodyww

If it has been well taken care of, 70K is nothing for that engine. My suspicion is, where has it BEEN all this time to have only 70K after 21 years?

I'm sure you're at least as good at checking out used cars as I am. But an RX-7 is the type of car that could have super-low miles--just see if he can document it with lots of maintenence receipts that show the mileage over the years. And a car-fax maybe? And didn't have the OD replaced, or broken, or........

But As someone who has sold a couple of 10-15 y.o. cars with super-low miles over the years, I can say that sometimes people are very suspicious of very low-mileage cars. Those people are usually all worked up about it even before they get here. After a few minutes of their giving me a hard time, I usually suggest they just look for a higher mileage car if that's what they want. (I might have also said a few unprintable things on a couple of occasions to some real jerks, now that I think of it.....).

This RX-7 could be legitimate, & even in nice condition.....maybe???

lilengineerboy

My dad has a 4 mile commute to work. Most of his key errans are within 2 miles of the house. When I stole his 10 year old car, it had 70,000 miles on it. It has since caught up but my commute is much longer and we used that car for road trips, where as my folks used the mini-van.
Our 2 year old car has 13,000 miles on it(because we use the other car for trips and the other car has a very short commute).

anonymousposts

Our 04 Accord has 53,600 miles since July 04. The TSX has 8,000+. We drive a lot. Hopefully though we will be moving closer soon. We have a house in mind, we just need to sell the one we are in first.

corvette

The VW 2.0 is the only VW I would buy...

I don't think the VR6 has that many engine issues, either. My friends tell me that the 1.8T turbo lag is easily cured with a mod or two--but personally, I'd rather have something that works reasonably well out of the box. The new 2.0T is much more responsive.

My suspicion is, where has it BEEN all this time to have only 70K after 21 years?

Maybe it has a five-digit odometer? IMO, most true sports cars don't make great daily drivers. I sat in a new Mustang GT at the auto show today, and I'm not sure I'd want to drive that every day, either.

kyfdx

It's funny... I forgot all about the first generation coupe.. What's really funny, is I was looking for a used one in late '89, to use as my primary vehicle... Just couldn't find one for under $20K.. It was my first choice at the time..

Ended up with an '84 911 Targa, instead.. so, it all worked out..

My brother-in-law bought a coupe used in the early '90s.. with a stick.. his wife drove it, until it had 160K.. Really nice car..

corvette

Just some random musings from the Louisville auto show on Saturday. There was a very high turnout--admission was free, and there was also a boat show going on in another wing of the expo center. And, there was a U of L game later that night. I was on a pretty tight deadline and didn't get to spend as long as I would have liked, but still managed to see most of the recently-redesigned vehicles.

Chrysler Aspen: The metallic white model they had on display had a pretty bad case of orange peel paint.

Ford Explorer: Embarassingly cheap interior. The Edge is better in this respect.

GMC Acadia / Saturn Outlook: Overall, I was impressed. The black plastic cladding at the bottom is very noticeable in person, but is functional as far as preventing scratches and providing for easier cleanup. The black wart antenna on GM's vehicles with OnStar is very unattractive (and usually not centered on the body). The interior was nice and the third row would be tolerable for an adult for a short trip--or comfortable for a child for a long trip. Passenger space (in person, not just going by the numbers) is as good as the regular length Yukon.

Ford Mustang: Manual shifter seemed balky. Not sure I could live with it as a daily driver.

Civic Si: Manual shifter was very crisp. Looks like a nice car, shame about that spoiler on the trunk.

BMW X5: In person, looks almost exactly like the old X5. At first, I wasn't sure if it was the new one or not. Useless third row seat.

The FJ Cruiser takes the cake for having blind spots that are downright scary--and the design of the rear windows in the cabin makes the blind spot look smaller than it is, at least on the driver's side. The new Tundra extended-cab looks pretty bad in that department as well.

durability05

Been here before, tried my best to stay away, but fell off the wagon and purchased the new F150 last October. I should be okay unless gas goes way pass $3 gallon for regular here in California. Presently its $2.46 for regular at Mobil.

mark156

Stopped by the car lots yesterday and the day before to check out a 'dingy' car for the new motorhome. The top contenders are the Jeep Liberty and the Honda CRV.

Saturday, I checked out the Liberty and it seems just fine for what I will need it for. I have been to this local dealer for service when I had my 1996 and 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee's (never bought there).

One of the major turn-off's was that EVERY vehicle on the lot back in 1999-2002 (when I owned my last Jeep) had the addendum sticker on the window. I mean EVERY car had one (even Neon's) marking it up at least $2,500 with "market adjustment" listed as the reason.

Well, they apparently have had enough flack about it as not one car had it on the sticker. A nice Liberty Limited with sunroof, leather and 4x4 will run about $27,000 list. They didn't have any 4x4's on the lot but expect some to come in soon.

Sunday, I stopped by the high volume Honda store to look at the new CRV. As I drive up in my Land Rover, there are 5 salesman standing there licking their chops. I can not stand that! I park and a young guy comes over to introduce himself, etc. etc... must have 20 yrs old tops.

I told him that I was interested in the new CRV and he had several opened in front for customers to see. One was a base model and the other was top of the line with leather (no Nav---will come out later).

Right next to the MSRP sticker is an addendum sticker which includes (hope I can remember them all)... Chrome wheels, etched glass, fabric protectant, wheel locks, etc. EVERY new CRV had this which was about $4,400 added to the sticker. That is such a TURN OFF!

I told the guy, "what is this", "I don't want all the stuff on there"... he said, "we can work with that". :mad:

As I was looking at the CRV with leather, he runs in the showroom and comes out with keys but pulls out another CRV for me to look at. He really wanted me to drive it but I said no that I'm just in the looking stages now.

With the 'added features', the CRV listed just shy of $30,000. My main attraction to the Jeep is that the drivetrain can be totally disengaged with a lever. Whereas, the Honda will be in neutral but the AWD will be engaged.

I have time to make up my mind as the motorhome won't be off the assembly line until early March.

Mark156

corvette

The NAV models of the CR-V are available now. Most of the dealers around here put about $1,000 in accessories on them. Last I checked they were still selling close to list price, although the accessories were negotiable. I'd visit another Honda dealer to try to find one where you'd be starting negotiations at MSRP instead of MSRP + $4,400 in mostly useless accessories.

oregonboy

purchased the new F150 last October. I should be okay unless gas goes way pass $3 gallon for regular here in California.

Don't you mean until gas goes way pass $3 gallon for regular? My prediction: by mid summer 2007. :sick:

But that's a topic for another thread. - james