Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Try talking to a dealer first regarding trade-in values.. Dont take it for granted.
I don't think I would consider that repairs. I would consider it maintenance.
But, since you are looking at Outback wagons's, one of my favorites, go ahead and do it. The Accord coupes are nice , but I love the new Civic' s.
Have you looked at the Aura's ? I know you are a Saturn family already , so that might be overkill.
The new Monaco will come off the assembly line on March 15th... with delivery soon after. I'll get pics of the "combo" when I can. Now, I need to get a new digital camera! My old "aol" camera that I bought will not cut the mustard with my many planned trips. It's starting to die anyway.
Mark156
Just kidding. Looks like you have a lot of driving ahead of you. I hope you'll enjoy it.
But you know for that money you could have gotten:
Ford F250 Superduty Powerstroke Diesel,
A car trailer,
AND a Lamborghini Murcielago LP640 Roadster
and toured the country that way
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
That Ford, looks huuuuuge !!!! :surprise:
It's not my cup of tea but it will sell well....
Rocky
Mature & responsible side?
Perhaps you are in the wrong forum?
( just kidding. )
- Ray
outgrew that loooooooong ago . . .
Low end of their estimate was $79xx and the high end was $96xx, so I'm reasonably confident that the $8K number is pretty solid. Of course, the more I could get for it, the happier I would be.
My Saab 9000 Turbo, that I owned for about 10 years, I think cost me maybe $3k to $3.5K for repairs in the 10 years I owned it, mainly for a $1000 exhaust, & one $1000 brake job. But that was for a car not known for inexpensive repairs.....
$2K a year for repairs/maintenance I'd consider "normal" for an out-of-warranty 7 series, Porsche, Land Rover, etc.
Also, my 2008 Monaco Dynasty uses the Ford super duty headlight assemblies (2007 model). The tail lights are from the Ford van in a double formation (two sets on each side).
A lot of Motorhome manufactures use headlight/taillight assemblies from different vehicles... I can usually spot (identify) them from a mile away.
Monaco uses the Dodge truck headlights on the Executive model with Navigator tail lights... can't quite figure what they use in the top of the line Signature for fronts but the rears are dual use of the Chevy truck.
I know that was WAY more info than anybody wanted! LOL! :P :P :P
Mark156
Well, unless you want to count the $400 I dropped on new tires a couple of years ago.
The L is my first Saturn (since then, we've bought 3 more) and I've been pleased by some aspects of it - the polymer panels still look new even after 4 years - and frustrated by other things - the chrome wheel option was a mistake, given the soft rotors and the amount of brake dust that has accumulated on them.
Overall, I'd have to give Saturn a B, maybe a B+. I know it wasn't terribly popular when compared to the Camcord, but it has done everything I've asked it to do up to this point.
I guess that's one of the reasons why I'm struggling with the decision to trade it in.
Look at it this way - I'd be giving up leather, automatic, the V6 and a sunroof for AWD, an AUX jack for my iPod, a stick shift and the utility of a wagon body style.
Other than that, they are pretty similar in options and creature comforts. Heck, even the mileage is about the same - 21/29 for the L, 23/28 for the Outback.
I've been given the name of a salesperson who works at a different Subaru store here in Denver who, I've been told, will sell any car for invoice minus incentives.
The calculations look something like this:
Invoice (w/ accessories) 23071
Rebate 750
-----
Subtotal 22321
Trade in Value 8000
-----
Subtotal 14321
Tax (7.5%) 1074
-----
Subtotal 15395
Balance due on Saturn 4600
-----
Amount to finance 19995
(at least, I think that's how the numbers would look - I believe that's how things were calculated when we traded in the Focus on the ION last summer)
Giving up leather wouldn't be easy (for me). I think I could do it tho. I suspect that even financing the Subie--but getting the better resale, & reliability of the Subie--& saving whatever future repair $$ the Saturn will cost you--you'll be better off doing the trade.
And you probably won't be happy if the Saturn costs another $1k-$2k in repairs anytime soon.......
I guess bottom line, I like the "rep" of Subies, & the perception that you can usually run them up to 100K, w/o too much expense, usually, & then still get good $$ for them.....
It depends really.. If you are in a dual income household it probably doesnt matter. If you are in single income type of family, then I would try and talk you out of it.
60k is nothing really. Engines now outlast cars and easily go upto 200k on regular oil and more with synthetic. Just need to get the spark plugs, timing belt and water pump changed every 100k.
There will be other problems and carmakers have built some planned annoyances so that on relatively cheap cars, people dont bother fixing them. I tried hard (especially for someone who used to trade in every year) and managed to go upto 115k and more than 5.5 years. But finally the suspension did it for me. Springs are broken and needed replacement along with struts/bushings etc. Engine was still like new.
There is the other psychological part which is fear of whatelse can go wrong. Even if something goes wrong, everybody worth their finance 101 salt knows that it is cheaper to fix your ride than replace it. But if you got an itch to scratch, you just found an excuse.
One thing I regret was doing the 100k maintenance. All I did was spend big money and sell for cheap. Some dude will reap the benefits.
Point is that if you got this far in thinking, it means you want to do something. A few more payments doesnt matter. For it to make a difference you got to keep it for far long.. say another 4 years or so.
So I'm going to sell the truck, and I picked up a nice little commuter - a 2002 Mazda Protege ES 5-spd. 52k miles, no options beyond the base ES package, dark metallic green with grey interior. It needs tires but is otherwise clean as a pin. Bought it private party - Carmax offered the guy $6500 and I gave him $6800 for it, which I think is a really good price. It's nice to have another 4 door to haul kids around in a pinch, and with a few mild suspension / engine enhancements it'll be a lot of fun at the Mazda club track days. I only wish someone made a RWD Protege equivalent - and no, the 3 series doesn't count.
Only problem is that until we sell a couple of cars we have 5 for two drivers.
-Jason
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
The Protege ES--I don't know it super-well, but it sounds like a great deal with 52K miles.
The housing market--I'm starting to think that in some areas the time to buy, or make low-ball offers, is near, or here (Maybe not in FL, yet). One of the nice areas near Portland ME I keep checking out on-line--RE is way softer than 2 or 3 years ago. There are some very good deals on some very nice houses now, in premium areas near Portland & near the ocean. (I'd go up there & check it out again, but I've been snowed in for 4 days with this horrible crusty ice/snow/mix & can't get out with my RWD bmw).
Around here, metro-boston area, prices have "softened" a bit, but my impression is you'd be lucky to save 10% versus prices at the peak.....
As for housing, there are plenty of boards for that, but let's just say that with rents running at 65-70% of a 30 yr fixed mortgage payment for the same property the time to buy is a good way off yet, at least here in the Virginia DC suburbs. And that's not even accounting for property taxes and insurance, which by themselves more than cancel out any tax advantages to owning.
-Jason
Personally, I prefer manual seats. They're quicker to adjust, and there's less to go wrong. I had considered a '97-98 M3 4 door, but I've heard enough horror stories about out of warranty German iron to scare me away from that. I did mention to a Bimmer guy I work with that I kind of like the G35 coupes. "Oh, those are a dime a dozen," he said, kind of dismissively. My response? "Dude, you drive a 3 series and you live in Arlington. I'm surprised you can tell which car is yours in the parking lot." :P
-Jason
I get the same garbage all the time. Last weekend, the beater died on me for good and this week, I have been driving a Mazda 3 from Hertz Local Edition.
The big guy walks in and tells me that he can get me a good lease deal on a Lexus. Yeah, right. They are fun cars to drive but I would not be caught dead in one of them. I like to be able to park my car in ANY neighborhood in Chitown and have it there when I return.
I think everyone will be surprised with my "new" car - another old Ciera that will bridge me to the next daily driver ... thanks to my trusted mechanic - all for $500.
I've never had a car with memory seats, and only a couple with power seats--doesn't do much for me, 99% of the time I'm the only one driving. When I clean the car, I move them all the way forward and all the way back, and you're right, it's quicker and easier with manual seats.
I see both housing and transportation as expenses. Whether you rent/lease or own, there will be various costs you incur.
Top Gear (one of the BBC motoring shows) did a special last week where they came to Miami and each of the three presenters had to buy a $1000 car. Even though it was beat up, for some reason I had a soft spot for the 1980's Cadillac Brougham one of them bought.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. The E36 seems to tear the control arms out of the unibody at higher mileages, and I guess there is a similar issue with the diff mounts. Supposedly the M-cars have a brace to prevent this already.
Most of the other stuff is sensors and gizmos that don't really affect the drivability, and the replacement can be handled by a backyard mechanic. That said, I can think of few cars that offer the performance and versatility of a M3/4.
My only suggestion is, don't neccessarily lump all models of all German car mfgs. in the same "horror story" category of repairs. The bmw 3's & 5's tend to be pretty reliable, altho of course you're going to have to budget for some maintenence & repairs, esp. with a 10 y.o. one. My 6 y.o. 5 series has cost me maybe $600 in repairs & a new battery since the warranty ran out (knock wood--I don't want to brag too much!).
But if you really do prefer small cheap cars, or want a G35, 'nuthin wrong with that. Atho owning an E36 M3 for awhile might change your whole outlook. :-)
Just purchased a 1989 Olds Cutlass Ciera for $600. With a new radiator and new plugs, I will be out $1000. Not much of a purchase but it gets me through until April or May when I have cars coming off of lease.
Just returned from my mechanic and come to find out I need different lug nuts for my used alloys and the local Honda store won't get them in till Friday. The wait goes on...
The Sandman
Yeah unfortunately those mods require removing the entire rear suspension and welding in a brace. Street prices for that are 2-3k. If you are talking about and early E36, that is a total.
An Achilles' heel on the cars is the trailing arm bushings and the shock mounts. As those wear, it allows play and slop in the suspension which beats up those two mounting points. Changing the trailing arm bushings and updating the shock mount supposedly helps a lot. This is considered a 60k service (along with a water pump).
That's about right.... Probably the all-time dumbest gadget is going to be the in-dash navigation system... I never use it! You pretty much know your way about (humans ARE creatures of habit) and for the occasional time you are somewhere where you don't know your way around - It's just not worth the money! Get a paper map or a portable navi - they're far cheaper!
My question would be this: If you know your way around everywhere, why did you get a vehicle with a nav system?
Also, I drive to Los Angeles on a somewhat regular basis and to Las Vegas. I would not have a new car without a Nav.
Mark156
-Jason
I'm having a hard time reconciling that with
The E36 seems to tear the control arms out of the unibody at higher mileages :surprise:
Overengineering seems to be endemic to all the German automakers. I looked into A4s once and found out that apparently control arms are basically a wear item, and need to be replaced roughly as frequently as spark plugs!?!
Even VWs fall prey to this. A friend of mine who was a big fan finally swore off VWs a few years ago. I think he bought a Toyota to replace his last one. When I asked him why his response was classic: "Well, they're great cars right up until the Farhvergnator breaks and has to be ordered in from Germany for $600 bucks, and oh by the way it's backordered and will take 3 months to get here."
-Jason
Yeah, my Maxima makes the same noise. It's actually shocking the first time you hear it, it's a sound that is quite unlike any of the cars I've owned before. It's almost like a detuned F1 engine or something. It definately adds to the experience! :shades:
I'm about to order a Garmin Nuvi--seems to be the most highly regarded of the portables, plus it has a built-in battery, so you don't have to plug it in every time.
And in the past, many cars shock towers rust out at higher mileages. Like I mentioned, maintaining the rear suspension helps a lot with this issue.
Overengineering seems to be endemic to all the German automakers. I looked into A4s once and found out that apparently control arms are basically a wear item, and need to be replaced roughly as frequently as spark plugs!?!
...which is about every 100k, or about how often I have had to change the control arms on the Accord. I agree about the A4 though, blauparts sells the front end kit all together for a couple hundred clams.
That also seems like exceptionally bad luck with the control arm issue (unless the very early ones used a different bushing material or something).
You folks should check out the top retracting mechanism for the VW Eos. I don't think the engine itself has that many moving pieces.
I said the IN-DASH navi is a waste of time and money... The portables are fantastic compared to them and that was stated at the END of the post!
I'm a big fan of portable navi's that are far cheaper than the junk in-dash navi's you get with the high end cars.
I was responding to the point that jaserb gets crap from his co-workers for his penchant for cheap cars compared to their high-end cars. My experiences are that high-end cars with their in-dash navi's are just more crap to inflate the price.
I'm impressed with people that buy a cheap car, but then have a nice portable navi they also purchased for HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS LESS. I'm a lot less impressed with people that buy a high-end car they can't afford to make up for their inadequacies.
"If you know your way around everywhere, why did you get a vehicle with a nav system?" from lilengineerboy... I have both. The Acura I have has an in-dash navi that's a joke. It just came with the car.
When I fly somewhere and am in a place I'm not familiar with, the portable is up to snuff - and WITH me - a big difference in-dash navi's are obviously incapable of. I don't know my way around everywhere.... Just my small town where the in-dash navi is USELESS, EXPENSIVE, and STUPID..... Unless you're trying to impress people.
The kids have fun pressing its buttons however.
http://mpt.org/motorweek/video/roadtests/rt2607a_flash.shtml
My XLS has all the goodies and the only options were NAV/rear DVD which I didnt get.
Love it. I am convinced I made the right choice. Will take some pics tomorrow.
Found one car that is great:
The Saturn Aura XR, 252 hp.$27K fully loaded,beautiful interior exterior, 0-60 in 6.9 seconds according to Saturn experts(Saturn dealership-Indianapolis) 2007 North American car of the Year as voted for by a panel of 29 journalists at the 2007 Detroit Auto Show this year.
Up on a Soap Box, VERY IMPORTANT:
With several North American car plants closing this year (10 GM plants, 20 Ford plants, Chrysler laying off all employees with 10 years and under seniority-just heard from a friend who works at a Chrysler plant-they also just closed a plant in Indy last year) that will affect well over 300,000 people maybe more and I believe the economy will bottom out. There are also rumors that the Germans (Daimler) is putting Chryslers up for sale, GM may buy Chryslers or a Chinese Company-Chery Motors ?? No more pensions or security. I am betting it will be the Chinese because GM is hurting right now. I feel utterly compelled to buy North American and you should too. All our jobs will be affected, this will hurt everyone. Be wise when you buy and understand what the automotive industry and the unions have done for us and the economy.
Many of the "imports" are made in North America like some models of Acura, Honda, Toyota, Nissan, BMW, MB, Mazda, Mitusbishi, and Saab.
You do't have to stick tot he big three.
BUT for midsize sedans, if I were to buy one of the big three's cars, I'd probably get the Aura or a Fusion (I like the looks).
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I like the Aura also, I just wish it had a bit more headroom. The 2008 Malibu also looks like it will be a winner. GM seems to have found it's way back. I was impressed by what they had at the Autoshow.
Wow, I guess I just totally and completely disagree with you on that one. I think the after-market units with tiny buttons are hard to program destinations, and their tiny screens don't give me enough information about where I am going.
Actually, I think the more recent Acura systems (like the last 2 years or so) are my favorites. I have had really good luck with the voice activation, destination entry is a breeze, and the combination of GPS and dead reckoning makes it very accurate. The Toyota system on some vehicles uses a touch screen that its pretty advanced offering tactile feedback. The Prius doesn't have that particular screen but I have found it very easy to use none-the-less.
This is always a problem with people with in-dash navi's - Staunch defenders but have no basis of comparison because they never used a portable. Useless to debate......
Portables really shine when you get off the plane, grab your rental car and are instantly navigating in a strange city.... Let's see your in-dash do that. Pretty hard to get your car through airport security these days as I recall.