Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

ab348

Neighbor is selling his 2010 Ford Sport Trac "Adrenaline" edition. I always was sort of intrigued by them and asked him about it. He pointed me towards his online ad.

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Ford/Explorer+Sport+Trac/DARTMOUTH/Nova+Scotia/19_9360619_/

I like it but it seems ridiculously overpriced. Maybe he thinks because these are fairly rare he can get that much but I don't get it.

corvette

Yeah, it's essentially a previous generation Explorer. I would think you could pick up an Explorer or similar for around $10,000 in the States.

Mr_Shiftright

He might get $20K if it's spectacular in condition.

nyccarguy

fintail said:

Strangest thing about these price-inflated loaded smaller models is that a nice medium model isn't much more expensive. A loaded 3er or C can nudge past 60K, but for 66K or so one can get a very nicely optioned (not full load, but still pretty nice) 5er or E. I think the larger cars are better value.

Yup. If the larger models are your thing. The larger, more expensive (E,5, A6) models depreciate at a higher rate than their "lower" model brothers (C,3, A4). Depreciation can be friendly if used correctly.

Coupes are more expensive to buy new, but depreciate faster than sedans as they are not as desirable. You might find a used equivalent A5, 3, or C coupe cheaper, with less miles, than its sedan twin. This is part of the reason BMW Grand Coupes are so popular. You get the sleek looks of the coupe with the versatility of a sedan. I read an article that said most drivers could get by driving coupes, but don't for the fear of the few times they need to cram people in the back.

nyccarguy

henryn said:

I have a similar problem with the mid-size Chevy/GMC pickup trucks. The Colorado and Canyon are selling so well you cannot get good pricing. Consequently, it’s completely possible to get a full size pickup, better equipped (more options), for less money out the door.

Yup. I've said this before. If you REALLY need a pickup for work purposes, you have to go with a 1500 (1/2 ton). The Mid Sized pickups aren't THAT much smaller, they don't get THAT much better fuel economy, and they aren't THAT much cheaper. Especially when you can walk into a D3 dealer and buy for Thousands under invoice thanks to generous incentives. You want to look "tough and cool," then go buy that $46K Colorado ZR2 Extended Cab, Short Bed.

nyccarguy

@breld - I wonder if a 3 year old S3 will be worth somewhere in the mid $20K range and be a great CPO bargain.

stickguy

that is why there needs to be an actual compact PU again. not sure if the Ranger (that is finally coming here, right?) is much smaller than the Canyon.

I really want to see the new ridgeline in person. They had it at the car show, but it was on a platform and roped off. Though at 210", it is still no compact. At least the front end is smaller than the bow of a freighter.

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I wonder if a 3 year old S3 will be worth somewhere in the mid $20K range and be a great CPO bargain.

Maybe, but that could be pushing it, assuming it has reasonable miles.

I am of the belief that there are certain price "hurdles" with most cars. Like our recently acquired MINI - bought with low miles for $13k. A good running car with reasonable miles should hold pretty steady at that $10k "hurdle," so I don't expect much depreciation.

Something like the S3? With its performance reputation, I think dipping into the $20's for a 3 year old CPO will put it at a desirable price point - so maybe like $29k.

Just my opinion.

graphicguy

fintail said:

Strangest thing about these price-inflated loaded smaller models is that a nice medium model isn't much more expensive. A loaded 3er or C can nudge past 60K, but for 66K or so one can get a very nicely optioned (not full load, but still pretty nice) 5er or E. I think the larger cars are better value.

Agreed!

corvette

nyccarguy said:

This is part of the reason BMW Grand Coupes are so popular. You get the sleek looks of the coupe with the versatility of a sedan. I read an article that said most drivers could get by driving coupes, but don't for the fear of the few times they need to cram people in the back.

It's often easier to get in and out of a four door (I think you need less clearance between adjacent vehicles). I do wonder how BMW and Mercedes can make money selling so many different models, many of which seem to sell in very low volumes.

nyccarguy

@corvette - the low volume models make money because 2 out of the 3 major money components (as far as R&D goes) are already done. The engine/transmission & platform are shared with the sedan. So they just need to spend money designing sheet metal. It's not free money, but it's $.33 on the $1 money.

Mr_Shiftright

Minis don't hold their value all that well, at least compared to their segment average.

roadburner

corvette said:

It's often easier to get in and out of a four door (I think you need less clearance between adjacent vehicles). I do wonder how BMW and Mercedes can make money selling so many different models, many of which seem to sell in very low volumes.

I'm not so sure that they do; I think BMW and Mercedes-and to a lesser extent Audi-have some bizarre compulsion to build a vehicle for almost every conceivable market niche.

corvette

roadburner said:

I'm not so sure that they do; I think BMW and Mercedes-and to a lesser extent Audi-have some bizarre compulsion to build a vehicle for almost every conceivable market niche.

roadburner

corvette said:

roadburner said:

I'm not so sure that they do; I think BMW and Mercedes-and to a lesser extent Audi-have some bizarre compulsion to build a vehicle for almost every conceivable market niche.

BMW's "Homer" is the 5 Series Gran Turismo.
For now, anyway.

Sandman6472

Drove a new 2016 VW CC yesterday and liked it as much as I did the MB C300 I drove last month. Tech wasn't as complicated as the MB and it had knobs!!! Got to also drive a couple of Renegades yesterday and understand their popularity, fun to drive is a definite 10 but mpg's are pretty awful, possibly a 5. Jeep has a model for almost everyone with so many sizes but their mileage numbers are all very low. They really need to work on this issue but I would not want to buy anything with figures below 27 city/34 highway at this point. There's so much to choose from with those figures and higher that I could probably have a choice between a couple dozen vehicles.
Size is my first requirement, then the fun to drive variable. Mileage comes next and then good ergonomics. So many to choose from that I really could use a couple just for the variety. Being in this group so long has made me want to drive only fun vehicles and not only econoboxes.

The Sandman

graphicguy

Mr_Shiftright said:

Minis don't hold their value all that well, at least compared to their segment average.

Did you see the long term update on C&D's Mini? They bludgeoned it for reliablity, build quality, ride, materials, etc. They did not like it, at all.

imidazol97

henryn said:

I have a similar problem with the mid-size Chevy/GMC pickup trucks. The Colorado and Canyon are selling so well you cannot get good pricing. Consequently, it’s completely possible to get a full size pickup, better equipped (more options), for less money out the door.

In my unscientific assessment of buying trends at my morning coffee place, I've only seen one Canyon. But many of the pickup truck owners have replaced their nice, few years old trucks with new ones, both Fords and GMs. Most of these are not used for hauling, they're just trucks they drive to or as part of their work, but mostly clean trucks.

ab348

imidazol97 said:

In my unscientific assessment of buying trends at my morning coffee place, I've only seen one Canyon. But many of the pickup truck owners have replaced their nice, few years old trucks with new ones, both Fords and GMs. Most of these are not used for hauling, they're just trucks they drive to or as part of their work, but mostly clean trucks.

My friend who bought the top of the line Canyon said that the test drives he took of both it and the Sierra did not seem much different except that the Sierra felt significantly wider and thus harder to drive in city/suburban traffic. He finds it quite long compared to what he had been driving (Ford Ranger) but vastly superior in every other way.

I would love the utility of a small pickup but do not want to drive a penalty box. Nor do I wish to tool around in a 5000lb. battleship of a fullsize pickup. I have to think there is a market out there for the right small pickup, but whether that can be as profitable for the manufacturer as the alternative of a fullsize is hard to say. I suspect not.

imidazol97

ab348 said:

I have to think there is a market out there for the right small pickup, but whether that can be as profitable for the manufacturer as the alternative of a fullsize is hard to say. I suspect not.

There are a lot of S-10s still on the road in this area along with older Rangers. I think that helps verify your point. Back to the new pickups: it was strange how over about 6 weeks lots of the working guys who are working somewhere in offices or sales work where they use a pickup's room rarely but want a pickup showed up with new ones. Was there a big push from Chevy/GMC and Ford about 8 months ago to sell?

Mr_Shiftright

graphicguy said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Minis don't hold their value all that well, at least compared to their segment average.

Did you see the long term update on C&D's Mini? They bludgeoned it for reliablity, build quality, ride, materials, etc. They did not like it, at all.

I did see that. I laughed out loud about the comments on the squeaks and rattles. They said it was like driving a "cocktail shaker".

Which is certainly true from my limited experience. I spend more time tracking down rattles than just about anything else I do on the car.

I always told people that MINIS were really fun cars but were notorious rattle-traps, and now I am vindicated.

stickguy

did some browsing today while the Acura was in for an oil change. Nothing happened to make me want to pull the trigger. The RDX got a perfect report card (the tech reported that I "would not be needing anything for a long time"). Tires and Brakes specced out in the green range. They even checked the alignment, and everything was in range. so fresh oil, top up fluids, good to go. Not bad for $29,95 with the coupon. supposed to include a tire rotation, but not sure if that got done. After only 4K miles since the last one, not really worried about it.

Sat in the Acuras. TLX is still nice. On the list. Also liked a nice ILX. CPO 2016 premium with 4,100 miles on it. Pretty loaded up with the extra package. Asking $28,900 or so.

then went over to BMW. Dang they are pricey. I think the cheapest sticker I found was on a 320ix, at $40,300, They did have a bunch of 2 series. Every one of them had the $600 18" wheel upgrade, with rubber band tires. Nope. Not interested in getting that much use out of the wheel and tire protection package.

the X1 in the showroom, that was nice. Pretty loaded up for 41K. Not quite sure I liked the seat though. Too much lumbar. would have to play with all the adjustments. But it was sharp looking.

they did have a nice M4 out front. Dark gray over red. Base price 66K. Optioned up to 88K. I think the exhaust was close to 5K alone.

wanted to sit in some Audis and maybe take a ride. But it was closed (the little store in the auto mall). Just built a new stand alone palace down the road, but it was on the other side of the highway so I did not bother.

stickguy

Should have stopped at the Honda place too. Maybe the Ridgeline was out.

stever

Vanilla seems to be having some "overload" hiccups. Duplicate posts, etc. Just a fyi, carry on.

jpp75

stickguy said:

Should have stopped at the Honda place too. Maybe the Ridgeline was out.

I'm intrigued by the new Ridgeline, when the Touareg lease is up it may be a suitable replacement.

laurasdada

Finally caught the new (BBC) Top Gear. In and of itself, not bad. Chris Evans I find a bit loud and frenetic, but they're only two episodes in. Matt Leblanc is, well, Matt Leblanc. Not a bad thing, a little Joey, a little "Episodes" Matt Leblanc.

Last night they ran a Porsche Macan, Jag F-Pace and MB GLC 350 into the mountains of South Africa. Fun segment, stunning scenery and, while all three vehicles performed well, the Jag was the only one that finished (as they noted) with nothing broken or rattling! Autoweek and C&D seem suitably impressed with the F-Pace, too. Drat, my Jag exclusivity may be waning...

corvette

The second episode was better than the first. The videography is still top-notch, but it seems like they've lost the people who picked the great music in previous series. Evans driving a loud car and screaming at the camera is getting tiresome.  

fintail

One can definitely tell Evans is from radio.

ab348

laurasdada said:

Last night they ran a Porsche Macan, Jag F-Pace and MB GLC 350 into the mountains of South Africa. Fun segment, stunning scenery and, while all three vehicles performed well, the Jag was the only one that finished (as they noted) with nothing broken or rattling! Autoweek and C&D seem suitably impressed with the F-Pace, too. Drat, my Jag exclusivity may be waning...

Just before reading this I was on Jaguar Canada's website to build a F-Pace for fun. $61K with very few options. I went for the gas V6 instead of the diesel 4-banger since I cannot see myself with a diesel. Could easily have added another $10K in goodies. Nice-looking vehicle but not at that price.

xwesx

Holy smokes... I caught up! I was beginning to think that would never happen, but slow and steady (with a conviction to not post a reply in order to not cause all posts to be marked as read), won the race!

Slow down on posting, guys....

So, congrats to Erik and GG on the buys. Sorry if I left anyone else off. I kept expecting a punch from Michael, but alas....

Our 2010 Forester is still in the shop. I dropped it off the night we left for PA (three weeks ago), and they were able to replace the head gaskets and other odds and ends, but the transmission problems were some obscure parts that don't normally go bad, so the lead time on procuring them was long. As of Friday, they still weren't in (and no word since then).

I had them put us up in a loaner a week and a half ago after we arrived back in Fairbanks, and I'll be happy to get out of this RAV4 soon! It's a decent enough car, but it sure is hard to look at it.

For our trip, we had a 2016 Chevrolet Malibu for eight days. Very nice cruiser, and it returned 32.9 mpg over 1240 miles... and I wasn't taking it easy on it. Sadly, it was rather anemic (a little 4-cyl turbo engine of some sort), but it would scoot if you coaxed it enough. It was flat loaded with technology, so my son was in hog heaven.

Here's a shot of camp in Ohiopyle, PA two weeks ago:

graphicguy

xwesx said:

Holy smokes... I caught up! I was beginning to think that would never happen, but slow and steady (with a conviction to not post a reply in order to not cause all posts to be marked as read), won the race!

Slow down on posting, guys....

So, congrats to Erik and GG on the buys. Sorry if I left anyone else off. I kept expecting a punch from Michael, but alas....

Our 2010 Forester is still in the shop. I dropped it off the night we left for PA (three weeks ago), and they were able to replace the head gaskets and other odds and ends, but the transmission problems were some obscure parts that don't normally go bad, so the lead time on procuring them was long. As of Friday, they still weren't in (and no word since then).

I had them put us up in a loaner a week and a half ago after we arrived back in Fairbanks, and I'll be happy to get out of this RAV4 soon! It's a decent enough car, but it sure is hard to look at it.

For our trip, we had a 2016 Chevrolet Malibu for eight days. Very nice cruiser, and it returned 32.9 mpg over 1240 miles... and I wasn't taking it easy on it. Sadly, it was rather anemic (a little 4-cyl turbo engine of some sort), but it would scoot if you coaxed it enough. It was flat loaded with technology, so my son was in hog heaven.

Here's a shot of camp in Ohiopyle, PA two weeks ago:

Oooohhhh...love that scenery.

BBC Top Gear....yeah, 2nd episode better than the first. Evens is grating. I like LeBlanc in his role.

I too liked the SUV segment....beautiful scenery and photography. And, they certainly didn't baby their steeds.

Will give it another week, at least.

sb55

I finally got the CPO BMW 535d home today after buying it May 28. Small issues buying out of State. Mass. dealer would not let me take delivery in Mass. since I live in Vermont. Weird since Vermont and Mass. are adjacent, but I agreed to have them deliver it to me at the Vermont DMV so I could register it and pay the Vermont tax last Tuesday. That went OK and I only wasted 2 hours. We get in the car to drive home and it's HOT. The A/C didn't blow cold. Grrr. I called the Mass. dealer from the parking lot and he said to take it the Vermont Dealer to check it out. Problem is that my daughter was graduating with her Masters, and we were driving to Brooklyn for 4 days to attend and celebrate. So we dropped it off on the way out of State. (We drove the Silverado to Brooklyn and got a parking spot on the street!)
It turns out the Freon was low in the BMW, but no leaks are detected. It's not covered under warranty, but Mass. dealer will pay the bill.
So.... we finally picked it up today. And to top it off....my wife got stopped for speeding on the way home the 1st time she drove the car!!!! Fortunately, she only got a written warning. It's a nice car, but auspicious start!!!

corvette

xwesx, very nice scenery! Did you get to check out Kentuck Knob or Fallingwater while you were in the area? I did both of those last year and they were great. I also went to see what is left of Centralia, which is a little off the beaten path.

xwesx

corvette said:

xwesx, very nice scenery! Did you get to check out Kentuck Knob or Fallingwater while you were in the area? I did both of those last year and they were great. I also went to see what is left of Centralia, which is a little off the beaten path.

At our campground, we were a mile or so from Kentuck Knob, and we drove by the entrance to Fallingwater a couple of times, but our time there was limited and FLW was not on the list.

Centralia - is that the town abandoned due to the coal seam fire? It's a little crazy how that thing has burned for what, maybe 60 years now?

Overall, our trip was a flurry of activity to pack in over eight short days, but we had a great time. We started in Detroit upon our flight arrival, spent some time in Erie, then down through PA to Ohiopyle for a couple of days before heading on to Baltimore for our flights home.

stickguy

so thinking about browsing at the BMW dealer today. I think my favorite model of all was the X1. likely the only one that I would actually consider buying.

roadburner

My wife drove the X1 loaner I had while my car was being prepped for my track weekend. She liked it okay, but not enough that she would give up her X3. The X1 is only a couple of inches shorter but it is quicker and more economical. My son drove a customer's X1 at the dealer and said that he might buy an M Sport X1 in a few years.
As for me, my favorites are the M2, M235i, and the Alpina B6.

nyccarguy

@roadburner - I noticed on the BMW website, that even an X1 with an ///M Sport Package just seems like an appearance package.  No suspension modifications or adaptive suspension.  It does mention an 8 speed Sport Automatic transmission though.

I agree with you about my favorite BMWs now.  ///M2, ///M4, & B6 Alpina Grand Coupe.

corvette

Yeah, the mine fire in Centralia is still burning and steam still comes out of the cracks in the ground. It was eerie. 

qbrozen

I know I'm buried, so no chance in hell of this happening, but I was pondering recently, "hmmm... I could dump the Caddy and get 2 vehicles probably for the same monthly, if not less." what prompted this thinking is that the H3 the wife and I wanted to buy has continued dropping in price over the past 7 months and was down to $13,995. For some reason, about 2 days ago, they raised it back to their original $18,995 asking. Go figure.

ANYWAY, while browsing, I also came across a 2004 S60R 6-speed with just 24k miles. But now I just tried to paste the link and the car is delisted already. Oh well.

I really still love the caddy and probably wouldn't do anything anyway.

stickguy

Oh, I love those stick shift R's. Best not be looking at those yet.

Something fun/older/cheaper when the sonata goes back might be the best bet, instead of something new and expensive. At least for a little while! Try going payment free again.

breld

stickguy said:

so thinking about browsing at the BMW dealer today. I think my favorite model of all was the X1. likely the only one that I would actually consider buying.

I'm a fan of the X1 too. My wife hates them.

I liked the previous gen for its more traditional BMW feel, but I think the current one is nicely updated both exterior and interior wise. And I know it's moved to a new FWD based platform and all that, but for a comfortable, day-to-day utility vehicle, I think it fits the bill well.

breld

I'm still obsessing over a 3-series wagon, specifically that lightly used blue one. I keep looking for additional price reductions, but at $42k, I'm thinking it will probably sell fairly soon. If somehow it hit the $30k's at all, I think I'd be compelled to do something, but I don't see that happening. At least not on this well-equipped, 7k mile CPO one.

breld

That dealership has 2 CPO wagons available, both low mile service loaners:

CPO wagons

I've always been a fan of the M-sport look and the Estoril Blue, but for the wagon, I'm kinda liking the less aggressive look and the darker blue of the first one. Of course, it's also a better buy right now, but I suspect there's a lot more fluff in the price of the M-sport one.

In any case, if the cheaper one sells, I'll just keep an eye on the pricing of the M-sport model, assuming it will get reduced too.

I've also enjoyed the benefits of the diesel in the X5, so I'd like to give the diesel wagon another shot. Before I bought the S4, I drove a diesel wagon back to back with a 4-series GC, and for the 4-cyl engines, the gas version was far more engaging.

stickguy

I love the colors on the dark one. Hard to sell the brown interior to my wife, but she will learn to live it. Has everything I must have too, except BLIS.

breld

Yeah, I really like BLIS too. And I know it seems silly, but on my past few cars, I've had some sort of "heads-up" speedometer, whether it be the actual heads-up display on the Mazda, or the large info screen in the Audi and Kia, and I've become accustomed to that too.

Both things missing on these particular wagons.

qbrozen

I might be compelled to wait around for this wagon

sda

It seems stickguy and I were on the same track yesterday. I took the Accord to dealer where I purchased it from to have a simple oil change. The Accord got a clean bill of health. At 57k, it is still on original tires, brakes, battery, etc. This Honda dealer is across the street from the Acura/Bmw, Porsche, Land Rover dealerships. So after getting the Accord back I went over to the Acura store to browse. They are discounting the TLXs around $4k. What I found curious is that I've browsed at that dealership many times and only once has someone asked if I could be helped. Though I appreciate not being bothered, I wonder how many potential sales they miss because of this lack of attention. I wanted to take a TLX out for a drive but didn't want to have to initiate the request. I got back in the Accord and headed home.

stickguy

I did get approached. Told them I was just browsing from service, and got left alone, with a "here for questions". Same at BMW.

Nice discounts if you are buying now!

stickguy

Q, imposing wagon. Pretty sure though the sticker would give me a heart attack.

nyccarguy

"Can I help you?" Is a dangerous question to ask any one of us here on the board at a car dealership.  It will usually get responded to in 1 of 2 ways:  either "I'll get back to you" or "I'll take it."