Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

jayrider

Don't burn the covers until you check to see how much they are worth on ebay and priuschat. Decent coinage for sure.

kyfdx

What do plastic hubcaps weigh, though? Less than a pound for all four, I bet...

stever

Every pound helps. The real reason so many people complain that they can't get the EPA mileage is because they are 40 pounds overweight. Guess we should start asking that over in the Real World MPG discussions. :P

Can't forget windage and how slippery those hubcabs make the wheels either.

lemmer

It always irks me that I can't exceed EPA estimates in my Honda Pilot when we take trips. But we have four people a dog and all our junk with us. Considering that, maybe reaching the EPA number is not so bad.

ateixeira

So to be a true hypermiler I'd have to diet a lot... NAAAH! I like to eat well. :shades:

jayrider

Another "weigh" to improve mpg is to never drive with more than a quarter [eighth?] of tank. 8.3 pounds per gallon. Saw a late model Civic outside McDonalds. The back seat was hoarded to the ceiling with enough junk to survive a month after a nuclear holocaust. The driver was a middle aged woman -- dressed and groomed nicely -- sitting inside surfing the web and eating.

anonymousposts

Driving a 07 was what made us want a Prius. Gee wanted the buttons on a new one, otherwise we would have been happy with a 2nd generation. Dealers in Atlanta were not the easiest to deal with. They didn't have the exact car we wanted and they weren't willing to discount them. We found one in Nashville that was white over charcoal. That dealer was willing to sell it for $27,200 but it had one hail ding from a storm and we decided we wanted the tan interior. So we found this one in SC and called them up. They verbally agreed to meet the $27,200 and they did, with no games.

On a trip back from the grocery store today, I was able to get 62.4 MPG. My work commute is averaging right at 50 MPG. So far we are very pleased. It isn't the sportiest car on the road. However, if you know what you are getting into, it drives surprisingly well.

michaellno

It always irks me that I can't exceed EPA estimates in my Honda Pilot when we take trips. But we have four people a dog and all our junk with us. Considering that, maybe reaching the EPA number is not so bad.

Our CX-7 is rated for 17/23 .. on the one road trip we took, we saw 25 on the highway, but it was just the two of us .. and our luggage .. and my golf clubs.

Got a mini-roadtrip set for this weekend ... couple hundred miles to south central Colorado on Friday, return to Pueblo on Saturday, then home on Sunday. We'll see what kind of mileage we get. About 70% interstate, 30% 2 lane highway over a significant pass.

roadburner

BMW(E34 M5) and Pontiac(3rd Gen. Firebird) both flirted with aerodynamic wheel designs in the early '80s. Both attempts were pretty homely. BMW realized its error and revised the wheel design while Pontiac dumped the altogether.

stever

Didn't you do this trip last year, but a bit farther down to Santa Fe?

Find those backroads, really zap your mpg and be late for work come Monday morning.

I'm jealous - love the country down there. Haven't seen any real mountains for a couple of years now.

andre1969

Every pound helps. The real reason so many people complain that they can't get the EPA mileage is because they are 40 pounds overweight.

I'm not fully convinced of that, although on something like a Prius, every little bit probably matters. I just keep thinking back to 2005, when I went to Florida with two friends in my 2000 Intrepid. The car got about 27.5 mpg on that trip, with two extra people on board and so much luggage that the trunk was packed and we had to throw some in the back seat. That was with the a/c going the whole time, and me exceeding the speed limit, and having the 78-in-a-65 ticket to prove it.

And, FWIW, 27.5 is about the same mileage that car would get with just me, alone, empty trunk, driving like that on the highway, with the a/c on.

I'm sure that in local stop-and-go driving though, the extra weight would make more difference.

stever

Well, yeah, but you were going downhill all the way. :P

Americans' obesity adds to gasoline consumption, study says (USA Today)

"The same effect has been seen in airplanes. Research from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that heavy fliers have contributed to higher fuel costs for airlines"

michaellno

Didn't you do this trip last year, but a bit farther down to Santa Fe?

Last year we went to Santa Fe and Sedona.

This weekend we're hitting Alamosa, CO and Pueblo. Not really a vacation - wife is graduating from college on Saturday in Alamosa. The stop in Pueblo is just an excuse not to go straight home.

I'm jealous - love the country down there. Haven't seen any real mountains for a couple of years now.

It's funny - after living in CO for 19 years the mountains are just part of the scenery. What I miss are the green hills that are prevalent back east. Would love to do a road trip in that direction someday, but the problem is that the first day and a half you've gotta traverse either Kansas (I-70), Nebraska (I-80) or Texas/Oklahoma (I-40).

andre1969

A few years back, I bought a set of aluminum Mirada/Cordoba wheels, with the intention of putting them on my '79 5th Ave. I'm not sure how much of a weight savings they are, versus the 15x7 steel wheels that are on it now, but going by feel, there's definitely a noticeable difference.

FWIW, once I stepped on a bathroom scale, holding one of the NYer's tires, mounted on a steel rim, to see how much it weighed. Something like 52-53 pounds! I wonder if those aluminum rims would save, oh, maybe 10 pounds per wheel? I wonder if 40 lb of unsprung weight would make much difference in a car that size?

Checking my fuel records, the last four times I drove that car up to PA for the Carlisle Mopar show, I averaged 17.66, 17.41, 17.51, and 17.82 mpg. If I'm able to swap out the steel wheels with the aluminum ones in time for the show, I'll be curious to see if it has any noticeable effect on fuel economy this year.

I also wonder, if you go to a slightly narrower tread width, if it would have much effect on fuel economy? For example, say you had a car that normally takes 225/60/R16 tires, but you replace them with 215/65/R16? Would less friction from the slightly smaller contact patch have much of an effect?

In years past, I've put oversized tires on older cars, and haven't seen any noticeable effect, but maybe with modern, fuel efficient cars there's more of a difference? For instance, when I got rid of the 235/75/R15 tires on my '85 Silverado and replaced them with 255/70/R15, it didn't seem to do anything to the fuel economy.

stever

It's green here. :-) We went day-hiking in Mount Robson in BC 20 odd years ago and everyone was rushing up the trail to see the glacier up high. We had had our fill of them and kept lollygagging close to the trailhead gawking at the "big" trees. People thought we were nuts.

Link for you Andre:

hpmctorque, "Will Narrower Tires With Taller Sidewalls Return, To Improve Fuel Economy?"

I don't think the idea took off.

corvette

Kansas was pretty awful when I drove across it last year. They'd just raised the speed limit on I-70 west of Topeka to 75, and there were state troopers posted in the median about every twenty miles.

stever

If anyone knows an cop car owner, please send them this way:

A reporter would like to speak to a civilian driver of a Crown Vic, preferably a P71 (Police Interceptor). If you are not a police officer, and you own a Crown Vic, please send your daytime contact information to pr@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 10 a.m. Pacific/1 p.m. Eastern.

tjc78

Is it OK to post this on a Panther site I frequent? There are several P71 owners over there.

stever

Sure, and thanks!

andre1969

I was just in my buddy's '04 Crown Vic last night, when we went out to a movie. Sucker now has something like 225,700 miles on it. It still runs well, no disturbing drivetrain noises, no apparent smoking, odors, or leaks. It feels like it still has plenty of life in it.

Only problem though, is that my friend thinks the car isn't long for this world, so he's trying to drive it extra gently, to nurse it along for as long as he can. As a result, he drives like a little old lady who just learned how to text-while-drive on her Jitterbug! I'm convinced he's gonna get rear-ended, and his car's going to get totaled while it still has plenty of life left.

tjc78

We were just having this discussion about the Panther in another thread. They really do hold up. The 03+ models with the rack and pinion steering really improved things in the handling department.

Your friend is funny, I'd be the exact opposite driving the living hell out of the thing to give me an excuse to buy a new one. :shades:

qbrozen

I still have quite a ways to go before this plan could take effect, but I'm just throwing this out here now since I'm bored.

I'm pondering selling the 540 and replacing it with an appliance to serve duty in keeping the miles off the 135. Requirements: 4-doors that seats 4 rather comfortably, $6500 price cap, not miled to hell (the lower the better, but preferably under 120k), relatively bulletproof and not maintenance intensive, good mileage (over 30 preferred).

The list I have thus far:
Pontiac Vibe (and, by extension, Matrix, but the Vibe is cheaper)
Kia Rio5
Scion xB
Nissan Versa hatch
Protege5

As you'll probably also notice, these are all hatches/wagons. That's not a requirement, its just nice to have and does provide more room. It seems the larger econo vehicles do happen to be hatches.

The P5 has always been a favorite of mine, but it does cheat on the mileage front. Fueleconomy.gov shows around 28-29 real-world mileage. It is also tough to find clean ones.

The Scion definitely provides the most interior space, but that's really pushing it in the engine department. I'd probably grow to hate the lazy acceleration.

The Rio will probably continue depreciating like used dirt, but it would be the cheapest to buy.

Versa is less likely to find in that pricerange, but I have seen a couple.

I think Vibe might be the best choice. The most grownup of the bunch. Not plentiful, however.

Suggestions? Comments?

tjc78

I was thinking Elantra Touring, but the cheapest one within 100 miles of my zip was 10,700 so that is out.

kyfdx

Not the Nissan or the Scion...

I like the P5 the best.... but, if I were you, I'd just keep the 540... (note.. not what I would do.... but, if I were you.. lol)

stickguy

I like the P-5 also, but very hard to fine a clean one for a decent price, and many are modded up.

Might not get the MPG you are looking for (but close), but you can probably find a Volvo V50 (or even earlier a V40). if real lucky, a V50 with a stick! Torchlight usually has a few interesting ones (not that I necessarily would buy there, but I do use it to judge the market).

the older kia and the Scion and for sure the Versa are way too appliancey for me!

how about a domestic? Focus wagon or 5 door? Same car, 1/2 the money?

qbrozen

Not the Nissan or the Scion...

Any reason?

I should probably explain (in case I didn't already at some point) that selling the 540 is for 2 reasons. One being that I'm not finding alot of free time to work on cars these days, and having so many cars with needs is problematic. For instance, both the Benz and 540 are sidelined waiting for parts and my free time. Reason 2 is that I have no drive to drive the 540. It gets worse mileage than the 1, is less comfy than the 1, and could potentially require another repair at any minute. I feel I need a REASON to drive another car. So an appliance that won't break (I know, fantasy, but the perception anyway) and will net me great mileage is incentive to drive it instead of the 1.

qbrozen

Volvos, like any european car, are maintenance intensive, however.

Focus crossed my mind ... its just ..... ehhh... I guess I might try one just to be sure, but they aren't particularly attractive and I have this idea in my head that they are incredibly boring to drive.

I haven't tried a Versa, so it could be the same thing. I do find those attractive, however. Scion has the funky attractiveness going for it and the aforementioned tons of room, which is appealing because it could also take over for some weekend minivan duties.

kyfdx

Extremely un-involving..

That's why I did the 24-month lease on the Impreza back in 2008.... Super cheap and fixed costs.. At least that car was somewhat fun to drive, if it hadn't had the hanging throttle (so, it wasn't fun)...

But, the Versa is no Sentra... and the Scion is no.. well, it is sort of a Corolla... which is exacly what stickguy was pointing out..... just too, too boring.. you'll want to poke your eyes out, after a couple of months...

If you don't enjoy the 540, then I'd dump it.....

corvette

"If you don't enjoy the 540, then I'd dump it....."

I might do that with mine, too, just as soon as I fix the power steering fluid leak. And the vibration when the tires are cold. And the odor from the HVAC.

Did I mention I disconnected the park distance control the other day, since it's in failure mode and seven out of the eight sensors don't register a peep when you are close to something? Research suggests it's the controller module, which is a $2-300 part. That feature, I can live without.

stever

no apparent smoking, odors, or leaks.

I'd be a bit, er, dubious about buying a used cop car, knowing what kinds of odors wound up on the back seat over the years.

tjc78

Most of the guys fit nicer interiors out of civilian Vic's or Grand Marquis anyway....

stever

Yeah, but those cop rear seats are hard plastic, so stuff just runs off. Down into all the nooks and crannies, under the floorboard, who knows where. :P

kyfdx

Sounds like you've spent some time, back there.... :P

stever

I wondered who would take my setup.

/badda boom

kyfdx

I'm here all week.. two shows on Sunday...

Be sure to tip your waitress or bartender..

steine13

Of the bunch, the P5 is probably the best driver's car.
But good luck finding one for a reasonable price, they do have their fans, and it's no secret.

If I spoke ill of my Vibe, I should clarify... It' s my second one, and my wife and I agree that the first one, an '04, was more buttoned-down and far less rattly. So drive one and listen carefully...

As an 'appliance,' it has few equals. Nearly maintenance-free, enough power with the stick, tons of room. Eminently "rackable" -- I often haul two heavy canoes a couple hundred miles.

A hitch can be added for a little over a hundred bucks; installation is easy.
And best of all, it has a good online community (genvibe) with do-it-yourself instructions for tons of stuff. One of the guys there claims something silly like 400k miles on one engine/transmission. I believe it, though how he can stand it....

I removed the beeper when I got tired of the stupid mommy warnings, and it was a 20-minute job. Now I can listen to the radio with the door open -- the horror!

Just make sure you can live with the engine/road noise. A friend of mine commutes an hour one way with a Matrix. That would not be my choice.

The dumbest thing is the light sensor in the far left corner of the dash -- that's where the local parking [non-permissible content removed] insist -- INSIST!! -- the parking sticker go.

Good luck in your search,
-Mathias

corvette

Apparently the "beeper" isn't required in Europe. Jeremy Clarkson once described the beeper on an American car as a device installed to remind you that it's a car.

The road noise can probably be quelled with good tires and some strategically placed sound deadening (see Sound Deadener Showdown for specifics). I removed the C-pillar trim on my 540 to reglue the fabric which had come loose, and was surprised to find a large rubber piece glued to the back side, which is probably one of the reasons it's so quiet even with the high performance tires.

qbrozen

All my cooling system parts are in for mine, so just need to put that back together.

The only other thing really wrong at the moment is the dead pixel issue on the odometer. Oddly enough, the radio display is perfect, so somebody must have fixed that previously.

So, after the cooling system, I could have it ready for sale. However, I won't. Not yet. The MR2 has to go first.

qbrozen

I have found 2 P5s. One has a CAI, so that's a hint to me. The other looks bone stock and mostly clean... but he does want $6200 for it (2002 with 97k miles).

Oh, and I spotted this oddball. That's alot of car for the money, although it SHOULD be out of my pricerange by about $2k, you never know what will happen on a no reserve auction.

Hey, stickguy, also came across this one for you!

corvette

That's weird. BMW fixed a lot of the odometer displays as goodwill, but this was less common with the radios. I doubt they would do anything now due to the age of these cars. I shipped my radio display off to German Auto Recycling, and it looks perfect now.

corvette

That Fusion looks nice except for the three different brands of tires. I love navy blue cars.

kyfdx

The LR Disco in my neighborhood is gone...

kyfdx

That might be the only manual Fusion in existence... :surprise:

stickguy

intersting and rare fusion. But guy is color blind (it's blue not black). and yeah, needs tires!

but for the right price, interesting car, and it may not go as high as you expect with a stick and 90K on it. For the right price, I could live with it.

and the Volvo does look like a nice one, but I am staying away from an old R. now, a nice '07-'08 T model could work.

stickguy

I drove one when they first came out (before I got my accord). With a stick, to be clear!

stickguy

probably just in the shop. it might be back soon!

kyfdx

I don't know... it had been sitting curbside, instead of in the driveway... with a for sale sign on it.... It's been gone a week now... I'm guessing it's sold..

When we walked by there, I told the wife that they had sold her car.. She said she never wanted it, but I told her I knew better..... LOL.

qbrozen

yes, you dodged a bullet.

laurasdada

I'm doing/pondering the same. Finding a "winter beater" so that my XK can blissfully enjoy the garage at the mere mention of snow. I got through this past winter (which really wasn't) using what will be my daughter's car full time this coming winter.

Vibe has been high on my list, but I'm just enjoying the cars.com/autotrader shopping. P5 and 3, Saturns, Elantras, Foci, Sentras, Forresters, anything that comes up < $5k and < ~120k miles... Of course, I don't actually have $5k, minor detail...

jayrider

Since when was being short on money an obstacle to buying a car. The sales industry is based on that exact premise. Just leave your common sense behind when shopping.