Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

oldfarmer50

"...talk me out of..."

OK, if you turn on the heat or AC it will cut your range in half. :lemon:

stever

Hold out a few weeks more and you can get a Leaf made in Tennessee (foxnews.com)

jayrider

Just make sure you can fit into what you want . Then figure out if you can afford it.

steine13

Cruze LS = $149/mo ($2100 to start)
Impreza = $169/mo ($1939 to start)
Mazda 3 (not SkyActiv) = $159/mo ($1999 to start)

That's funny, I just made an offer on a Cruze LT1 (manual) at the local Chevy dealer.

Be aware that the General is doling out $2k and $3k rebates to people holding their credit card. There are also rebates for people in competing leases -- trading not required.

I don't know about you, but I lose interest when I find that someone else who's not an employee of the manufacturer gets the same car for thousands less. It's kind of petty of me, but at the same time, they're telling me it's a $15 car, but I get to pay $17 for it. No thanks.

In this case, I'm one of the lucky recipients, so I ain't complaining. Cruze with the 1.4t engine, 6sp manual, alloys and power equipment, no nav or rr camera or what have you, still fairly simple....

$513 + 1st payment at signing -- doc, reg, and a whopping $300 tax on rebates... then $125 a month including tax, 12k miles/year.

I may have to sweeten the pot slightly, but that's what the national lease comes to when you take $3k off the top and add $400 worth of equipment.

Of the three you post, I kinda like the Impreza... plus, it has terrific resale and may be worth buying out at the end. Subaru leases tend to be pretty so-so, with low residuals. In the middle distance, getting one (or two ) of their credit cards can really be a nice way to lessen the bite.

That'll be my next CCBA adventure... I'll let you know how the present one turns out.

Cheers -Mathias

oldfarmer50

A guy at work might be selling his 2005 Grand Prix GT in the near future. What's your opinion of the car in general and what do you think about buying an "orphan" brand?

steine13

Pontiac isn't an orphan brand... all the greasy bits are still available at other friendly GM stores. So that's OK. Just don't break too many interior bits, but then the junk yard will be able to help.

From a resale perspective, I'm sure it's a little easier to get a good deal than on, say, a Buick. Don't remind me; I'll eventually have to sell the Vibe...

If you can get past the horrid interior, this should be a good long-term car with a good freeway ride, decent mileage, and a very stout drivetrain.

Cheers -Mathias

corvette

I think it has the venerable 3800 V6, so the powertrain might be bulletproof. Failing that, it should be cheap to repair if something goes wrong. I think the widespread gasket issues with the 3800 were fixed by 2005. The GT isn't supercharged, so the power is going to be merely adequate. Those cars didn't come standard with some basic safety features like ABS and side airbags (I think they were options). With those caveats, it could be a good deal to buy used.

If you could find one of the last Bonnevilles (2003? 2004?), you're probably more likely to find one that's well equipped, and the interior is nicer than the Grand Prix (but still not competitive in its class).

nyccarguy

So was breld's 335xi ///M Sport 6MT the 1st punch of 2013?

au1994

To me it looks like about 5 minutes of fun.

5 minutes is the amount of time it would take for me to hurt myself very, very badly in that beast.

au1994

True and maybe I didn't make my point very well, but that's what I was meaning. Coming out of a BMW into anything less sporting is going to be a disappointment, rental or not.

On another rental I had a Challenger with a hemi. That was fun but again I was surprised at how big and wide the car was.

Apples and oranges compared to the BMW though.

qbrozen

how far is she driving?
check out the civic hybrid, too. A little more than those, but could be worth it if the fuel savings add up.

Or, as someone else I think pointed out, the leftover 2012 Civics are $179 with $0 down. My sister is going to check that out tomorrow. Her local dealer shows several 2012s still in stock.

qbrozen

So the dealer reached out to me last night. He doesn't have any in stock, but he knows where to get one.

Long story short, his F&I guy owns a Leaf and has agreed to let us test drive his tomorrow night. If we like, then they can arrange to bring the other in for us to do the $199 lease on.

qbrozen

The wife was thinking last night that its nuts to take on payments vs the paid for Benz in the car. Here is my thinking and what I just wrote her. Would like to know if there are flaws here.

so some thoughts while i'm sitting here in meeting doing nothing.
the total cost, including fees, taxes, and down payment, would be $10k over 3 years.
Mathematically, of course keeping a car like the benz is better. I mean, figure $3k car, maybe $2k maintaining it. Even if worth nothing after 3 years, its $5k out of pocket. Then feed it the fuel. 36,000 miles at 22 mpg times $3.40/gallon is $5563 for the 3 years. So now you are $10,563. Pretty comparable.
I'm not sure what the Leaf would cost to feed in the end. Factoring our solar panels, its somewhere around 20% the cost, is my best guess. So call it $1100.

In the end, if we figure a residual value on the benz of $2k three years from now and factor in fuel, you might be paying $3k-$3500 more for the Leaf over the next 3 years. That's negligible, in my opinion. Plus you are driving a nice new car without problems and without taking my time to keep it running.

breld

Hey Michael -

Other than the brakes feeling a little funny, almost like regenerative brakes (they aren't are they?), I thought the Cruze drove surprisingly nice. For that cost is sure seems like a good deal.

The Mazda3's are great, but there's a pretty significant difference in MPG between the non-Skyactiv engines and the Skyactiv - how much is the cost difference? For 2013, I believe they started adding the Skyactiv option on the lower model sedans.

Like others have pointed out, I gotta think you can get a great deal on the outgoing 2012 Civic.

stickguy

I think you went to the Driver school of cost justification. Just need to take it down to the cost/day and convert that to WaWa coffee.

but your logic looks sound overall. A big wildcard is the Benz, since it could blow something major tomorrow. Or cost nothing. either is possilbe, the 1st more likely.

the other potential difference is insurance. no clue what a leaf would cost.

and be careful how you count the cost of the Benz. If you get the leaf, you get to "cash out" that asset (hey, I could use a cheap comfy car!)

qbrozen

doh! right. insurance cost. Forgot to add that. But, hell, it came out so much closer than I thought it would that it probably wouldn't change my mind.

PLUS, yes, figure I can cash out of the benz now for $3500 vs the projected $2k three years from now.

stickguy

not from me. Though if you want to be at the 3 year mark now, we can talk...

nyccarguy

Found a few for you qbrozen. Probably nothing you haven't seen already:

2012 Civic LX - $200/month + tax 36 months/12K (1st pmt waived)
2012 Civic Hybrid - $260/month + tax 36 months/12K (1st pmt waived)
2013 Corolla - $200.39/month + tax 36 months/12K
2012 Camry - $254/month + tax 24 months/12K
2012 Prius - $268.17/month + tax 36 months/12K
(The Toyota Leases require a $650 bank fee & $350 disposition fee)

steine13

The dealer called me this morning, and while it's hard to shake hands over the phone, we got it sorted. One Cruze 1LT with the 1.4t and 6sp manual, sticker $19,500.

I learned that to go from 12k/year to 15k/year costs one percentage point of residual, so we upped the mileage... the final tally with tax, tags, and a partridge in a pear tree comes to $3950 for two years and 30k miles of driving. Or 13 cents/mile.

This dealership is more expensive than the mega-store competition, but they are a quick bike ride from my house -- heck, I could walk there in 20 minutes -- and have an excellent reputation. I figured I'll give them a try.

I must be getting old; for the first time buying new I didn't go for the bottom trim level, and I didn't try to get the absolute lowest price.

Madame will have new wheels for a while, and I'll get my Vibe back. The clock is definitely ticking on that one...

Cheers -Mathias

nyccarguy

Mazel-Tov & Congrats! Punch #2 of 2013! $164.59/month including tax is an insanely cheap deal. WIth 15K to boot. You did well sir!

stickguy

darn. starting to fall behind. Getting antsy for a punch.

the 3 (4 if you count duplicate RDXs) in 2012 seem like so long ago!

qbrozen

Yeah, I'm aware of those.

However, the 2012 Civic I found even cheaper. One dealer is advertising for $179 with $0 down.

qbrozen

not from me

Oh, I knew that, ya cheap bastad. :P

My cars normally sell within a matter of days, so I don't think you'll ever get one from me for half.

stickguy

I take that as a compliment.

and good thing I never got that MR2 from you. Given that an Integra is too low and small for me know, that might not have worked at all!

qbrozen

oh hell no. The integra is a luxoboat in comparison.

corvette

Congratulations! I think we've gotten two punches so far this week!

breld

Okay, speaking of being a little bored.

So I ran a simple analysis on the Leaf vs. MB over 36 months.

Figure $215/month for the Leaf lease (including taxes), $1,999 out the first month for down, $3,500 in for the MB sale, and $30/month for the electric bill. That has a net present value of $6,327.

Or keep the MB, at $155/month for gas, $500 four times over the period for maintenance (total of $2,000) and $2,000 sale proceeds at the end of the 36 months. Net present value of $5,188.

Kinda makes a reasonable case, no?

breld

I think you went to the Driver school of cost justification.

I think I've graduated with a PhD from that school. I could teach there.

michaellno

Wife is now reconsidering the job opening .. darn, I was hoping it could lead to a little car shopping!

However, I did find this in my local CL:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3467731404.html

My question for y'all - I see what looks to be a manual transmission in one of the pics. If so, then what are the two shiny paddles in the pic of the steering wheel?

Just curious ....

Edit - found this BMW in CL as well (both are local to my town):

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3528482873.html

I like the color combo on this one.

Edit 2 - and, if you want to scrape the bottom of the BMW barrel:

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/3501917915.html

ateixeira

Red flag is "racing suspension".

I think that's an SMG, no?

ateixeira

530i: why don't sellers fix obvious stuff like that? The buyer will only assume the worse.

ateixeira

bottom of the BMW barrel

Vinyl front seat, leather back seat?

Look at the visibility on that thing, all that glass...

corvette

ateixeira nailed it, the "racing suspension" on the 2004 545i is a red flag. The spoiler also looks ugly.

I'd probably take the 2001 530i over that, although it appears to have no-name tires and needs a new windshield and some paint work on the quarter panel--and those are just the problems we know about.

stickguy

I think "racing suspension" in this case is just an edgy way of saying it has the sports package.

i would also like the 2001. I can see not fixing the dent, but my goodness, replace the arned windshield at least!

qbrozen

yeah, not a stick. Just an auto box with funky shifter.

I find the E30 a bit intriguing.

qbrozen

I've convinced myself that as long as she likes it, its a perfectly logical step.

breld

I agree with the others - the 530i seems the most appealing. Hard to tell from just pics, but seems to be in pretty decent shape. Assuming a new windshield is all it truly needs (like stick said, you may not even bother to fix the quarter panel), seems to be priced okay.

I think that's BMW's SMG trannie on that 545i, which doesn't seem to get the best press.

ateixeira

Just met with my buddy who traded a Ranger Rover Sport in for an Explorer Limited.

He told me city MPG went from 9-10 to about 16mpg, and that's using 30 cents cheaper fuel to boot. On highway trips he's getting 23mpg.

Loves his ride, no regrets, no problems. He's an IT guy so no issues figuring out MyFord Touch.

One question - he seems to believe the oil change interval is (gulp) 25,000 miles? Could that be right?

corvette

I thought the 545i looked lower to the ground than the BMW factory sport suspension, but I could be wrong.

corvette

"One question - he seems to believe the oil change interval is (gulp) 25,000 miles? Could that be right?"

The owner's manual for the 2013 Explorer indicates that Ford now uses an oil life monitor and he should expect it to call for an oil change between 3 and 10,000 miles depending upon driving conditions.

breld

I do believe that 545i has the BMW "m-tech" front bumper, so it is likely that there have been other modifications to the car.

ateixeira

Thanks, he had thought he read that in the owner's manual, maybe he needs to browse it more than once.

andres3

the final tally with tax, tags, and a partridge in a pear tree comes to $3950 for two years and 30k miles of driving. Or 13 cents/mile.

What about tires, brake pads, wipers, oil changes, and other wear and tear items?

Insurance too!

roadburner

I drove a Cruze stick at Indy last year. It's a remarkably nice car. Congrats!

roadburner

I find the E30 a bit intriguing.

I'd take a clean E30 325is or E28 535is over 98% of the new cars currently for sale in the US.
Really.

steine13

>> What about tires, brake pads, wipers, oil changes, and other wear and tear items?

I suspect I shall have to buy them...

Seriously, with a 2-year lease, I should not need anything but oil changes and maybe a set of $20 wiper blades -- definitely no brakes on a small car driven by my wife -- but given how crappy OEM tires on cheap cars often are, I suspect I'll be shelling out for replacements. I guess I'll do it early.

24k could be close, 30k is very iffy. Of course, the snows from my Vibe don't fit... wrong bolt circle. Rats.

-Mathias

kyfdx

I've never had to buy tires for a lease turn-in, even with two of them at 50K-55K miles....

Plus, the penalty is usually less than the actual cost, so no point in not trying to get them to slide by....

tjc78

I've never had to buy tires for a lease turn-in

My 06 Avalon with Bridgeston Turanza EL400s needed tires at 27K miles, even though they were always inflated properly and rotated every 5k miles.

My 09 Genesis with Dunlop SP 5000 sport were already very thin at 22K miles when I got rid of it. No way they would have made the lease.

It does happen with certain tires. The verdict is out on my current LaCrosse with Michelin Pilots. I have a 11K on it now and they look to have plenty of tread and should make the lease (3/36).

corvette

It seems like most Michelin tires wear longer than their competitors. That said, the Kumhos I have on my 540i are the best rain tires I've ever driven on.

oldfarmer50

"...crappy OEM tires..."

Have you considered buying yourself some good performance tires and storing the OEMs in the garage? When it's time to turn the car in remount them. You'll have two years of better performance instead of two years of crappy performance.