Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

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Comments

  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    Are you looking for a slightly used white Titan by chance? LOL

    That dang white Titan got me a nice (ha) speeding ticket tonight. Darn truck is so smooth and I wasn't paying attention.........got nailed for 67 in a 55, I had just turned onto the road and the Titan had barely shifted into 5th gear......silly truck is too dang quick and I wasn't even stepping into it that hard.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    Bummer. I was doing the traffic school thing this time last year.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,455
    Maybe I'm getting too picky, but I keep getting myself worked up over the next great thing, and then not liking it as much as I had hoped to (or liking, but finding one or 2 faults that were a deal breaker).

    New Civic, Fusion, and now the Lexus IS250, all had something I would have to rationalize away or talk myself into. I do like the BMW 325, so I guess the only thing there to talk myself into is the $$ and the potential reliability!

    Maybe I'm just getting too picky in my old age, or (**shudder**) I don't really want to buy a new car (said by the guy with (2) 2005's in the garage).

    Actually, Mr. SHifty has been touting older (1991-1995) Audi S4s. I scoped them out on Ebay, and darn that is a neat car, not that I would ever find a good one near me for a decent price.

    Oh well, I shall keep looking!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • mark156mark156 Member Posts: 1,915
    Akangl, I read on another thread that you were looking at GMC truck, are you still considering it? You mentioned that it had been wrecked so I guess the price would reflect that.

    My friends laugh at me because I use my cruise control ALL of the time. One of the main streets near my house has a 40 mph speed limit. Because it's a 6 lane street with a turning lane in the middle, people will travel at 50 mph most of the time. I see cars getting tickets quite often.

    All I do is flip on the cruise and sit back. I haven't had a speeding ticket since 1985. Got a warning in Texas in 1996 doing 70 in a 65. The cop was in a Mustang police car and just wanted to stop me and my buddy just to see what we were doing and where we were going. I had rented a 1996 Lincoln Town Car, white, and was driving just slightly over the speed limit. My radar detector went off and I hit the cancel on the cruise.... he stopped me anyway.

    The cop separated us to see if our stories were matching; I sat in the front seat of the Mustang cop car and my friend was in the front passenger seat in the rental. We were driving to California to check on an investment property and thought a drive would be fun. I don't use a radar detector anymore, the speed limit works for me.

    Mark
    2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    If you don't mind my asking, what is this garage costing you? And, are you building it yourself, or using a contractor, etc.?
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    Akangl, I read on another thread that you were looking at GMC truck, are you still considering it? You mentioned that it had been wrecked so I guess the price would reflect that.

    Nope, they said the truck had never been wrecked, yeah right, even hubby spotted the new parts. The front fenders had definatly been off, it had new wheel well linings, new paint on the front clip, new headlights, grille, and a new bumper.

    They offered $22k for the Titan but would not budge off the $19,995 for the GMC. So basically they wanted to give me the GMC and $2k for my Titan...........uh no. The GMC had a trade in of $18k (loan value is $16k), the Titan has a trade in of $26k (loan value of $23,5), so I was thinking more along the lines of $22k for my truck and $16k for thier truck..........in other words they give me the GMC and $6k for my truck. I think I was being generous considering that GMC truely has no value being wrecked and canadian.

    Ah well, they can keep it, I'll keep plugging along with the Titan (at least I know its American and hasn't been wrecked). I can concievably buy out the lease in the spring if I want to, but am going to wait to see what the used car market does, I may just buy a beater truck and park the Titan after our vacation until the miles are in line, then turn it in at the end of the lease. We are already at 21k miles, only allowed 48k through the whole lease.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    Woodyww, here's a rough breakdown of what this garage has cost me so far...

    $15,000: what the pole barn company gets, includes materials, labor, drilling the holes, etc. I'm not doing it myself, but after watching the crew put it up, it really doesn't look like it would've been that hard to do. Still, I can get impatient and frustrated, so it was probably best to just pay to have it done. They came out on Wednesday afternoon, the 7th, worked all day the 8th, morning on the 9th,came back in the afternoon on Columbus day, and were finished the day after around 5:00
    $800: 2 dumptruck loads of gravel
    $233: the permit to build the thing
    $50: a bribe fee I had to pay to the county to get a "tree conservation" letter, which basically gives me permission to cut down trees on my own property. Nevermind the fact that neither I, nor my ancestors, had to get permission to let the things grow up in the first place! :mad:
    $600: to have an engineer come out and draw up a new plan and certify it when the footer holes filled up with groundwater and the building inspector failed it.
    $1300: for the concrete that's already been poured in the footer holes, plus the work that the guy doing the grading and such has done so far.

    So, as it sits right now, it's just a shade under $18,000. I'm guessing it'll be another $4000 or so to finish up with the grading/filling, slab, and gravel driveway. So once it's all said and done, I'm guessing it'll run maybe $22-23K. Naturally, it ended up running more than I thought it would (don't most home projects? :blush: ) And I haven't even thought about electricity yet...I'll cross that bridge when I get to it! Plus, if the need arises, I have enough extension cords to reach out to the garage. It's about 150 feet from the house.

    The main thing I wanted, for the time being at least, is something to keep my cars out of the weather. I have my '57 DeSoto and '76 LeMans crammed in my grandmother's garage. My '67 Catalina convertible is sitting under a 10x20 car canopy. And my '79 NYer is currently in the shop, but normally just sits out in the yard. So, once all these are garaged, I guess I have to go buy something to fill up my grandmother's garage, plus a few new yard ornaments! :P
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Sounds like a lot of garage for the $$--what are the dimensions? And is it any more difficult to add electricity after the fact? You'll probably need it, in case you want to go out & futz around with your cars at night.....at least I would. And get plenty of outlets all over, plus at least one outside light. Then there's are the cool wall-storage systems you can get now. (I have garage-envy).

    cheers, woody
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    it's 24x40 feet overall (not counting the T-111 siding). One the inside, it ends up being 22'10" x 39'2" inside the 4x6 poles. It uses pole barn construction, versus the regular type of framing that the typical garage or house uses, and is supposed to be cheaper than frame construction.

    I never did price a frame building, though, so I don't have anything to go by as a reference. Back in 2003 my Mom and stepdad had a 24x28 garage built and it ended up costing around $19,000 for everything. That included a brick front, vinyl siding, electricity, nicer windows (mine are kinda trailer park-ish, although they look like they're actually double-pane) and a 9 foot interior height...I think mine will come in at a bit over 8 feet once the slab's poured.

    But then, my Mom is in a different county, and their garage was built by Mennonites or Amish or some similar group that tends to charge a lower labor rate. And I'm sure labor rates and construction materials have gone up since 2003, especially with the housing boom and such. I've heard that concrete in particular has really skyrocketed.

    Still, I'm happy with it. Originally I was going to go with a 30x40 gambrel barn with a loft, but the county shot that one down real fast. They have a silly little restriction here that no secondary buildings can have more square footage than the primary structure. This 30x40 building would've had 1200 square feet (thy didn't count the loft) but they only had my house down as having 1106 square feet. It's actually more like 1500, but they don't count my enclosed side porch, and they consider it a 1 1/2 story, so they only count half of the upstairs square footage.

    They also had a height restriction of 15 feet for any secondary buildings. However, on cape cod style buildings, they took the measurement half way up the roof. On gambrel style buildings, they'd take the measurement where the steeper plane of the roof meets the flatter plane, which on my original plan came in at 17 feet. So back to the drawing board I went! :cry:

    Annoyingly enough, the second time I went in to apply for the permit, using the plans for the building I have now, they told me that they changed the way they measure height. Turns out too many people were building cape cods and then bumping the upstairs out with massive dormers, in effect making a complete second story. So they just gave up and decided to change the height cap to 20 feet. By that time though, I was fed up enough that I wasn't about to go and get a THIRD design drawn up! :mad:

    I don't think electricity will be too hard to do after the fact, because the inside of the garage is just a shell, so it's not like there's any drywall to tear out or anything. The worst part would probably be having to dig a trench from the house all the way down to the garage to run the electric. But then, there's a utility pole about 90 feet from the garage, out at the street, so it may be worth it to just run a separate meter/circuit breaker box and just not have it tie into the house at all.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    I would love to get in on my take on speeding tickets and such. But I drive like a bat-out-of-Hades at times and I don't want to mess up my karma by talking how I "avoid" tickets.

    Had a close call last week though. Was running about 90 in a 55 behind a "rabbit" Cavalier. Guy in the Cav was trying to keep me from "passing" him. Like i was really gonna pass him going that fast. He turns off at a intersection and about a quarter mile later I get pulled over. Cop couldn't give me a ticket because he hadn't actually clocked my car but the Cav. Told me to slow down. Too late. I already had done that. Rule one of speeding is to never do it alone.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    in the last few months. Both were questionable IMO but what can you do? I could fight them but neither should cause points on my record so it's a toughie.

    Gee is making baby steps. He parked the Lexus at the end of the driveway with a For Sale sign. However he had no price on it and no phone number. Again, baby steps.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,341
    I'm envious of that garage. If I had that, I wouldn't have sold the 126, an would probably have yet another old hunk of metal of some kind.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    We all need to get radar detectors! Although, I've never used one regularly, so I'm not sure how much it would help.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    If I had that, I wouldn't have sold the 126, an would probably have yet another old hunk of metal of some kind.

    I found out a long time ago that possessions expand to fill or exceed the space available... How many people do you know that can't park in their garage because they're using it for storage? How many of these people move into a bigger house, often double the size of the old one, and still can't park in their garage? One of the biggest changes in my hometown since I graduated high school is the proliferation of self-storage facilities...
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    I shelled out $400 for a Valentine 1 a couple of years ago. It's supposed to be the best, & works great. Sounds expensive unless you've gotten a few $200-$400 tickets before. Still, driving 85 or 90 in a 55 or 65 is not totally foolproof, esp. if the detector "lulls" you into more aggressive driving.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    having moved from a 1250 square foot condo to a 1500 square foot house, I sure found a way to fill it fast! One problem though, was that the condo had plenty of attic space and a 1 car garage. The house has a very low, flat roof, and while there is attic space, I don't use it because it's too hard to get up in there. Still, it's amazing how fast the house got filled. Oh almost forgot...I did get another roommate, a dog, and another cat, so that accounts for part of the additional clutter!

    In addition to the 24x40 garage I'm building though, there are two other buildings on the property. One of them is about 10x20, and used to be a garage back in the old days. It needs a lot of work though, and I'm torn right now between trying to fix it up, or just tear it down. There's also a 12x16 building with a tin roof and sides that's still structurally sound, but does need to be re-roofed and animal proofed. Both of these buildings are pretty full of stuff that many generations of my ancestors have been collecting and hoarding over the decades, and a lot of it is probably worthless by now.

    I am thinking about building a small room off the back of the tin building, maybe bumping it out to 12x24 or 12x30 or something, and then doing a lean-to on the side for a carport. I'm going to try hard to keep the junk and clutter out of the new garage, but we'll see how long that lasts! :blush:
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    We all need to get radar detectors! Although, I've never used one regularly, so I'm not sure how much it would help.

    You need to find out what bands your local polizei use. If it's laser, you are pretty much hosed - all any detector will do against laser is announce to you, before the officer puts his lights on, that you're going to get a ticket :-(

    I second the recommendation for the V1 - I picked one up when they first came out back in 1992, when my job required me to drive 40k+ miles/year all over Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, and Wisconsin. The V1 saved my butt and my sanity (you try driving through southwestern Minnnesota at 1 a.m. after an 18 hour day, just wanting to get home, and try to stay sane - or drive the speed limit). I still have it but I don't use it (even though the GTO is somewhat stealthy/anonymous, I prefer to be a "follower" rather than a "leader", if possible).

    --Robert
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,341
    That bugs me to no end, seeing perfectly good garages going to waste. People do have too much crap. They need to learn the meaning of either "garage sale" or "Goodwill", especially as most of the stuff is of no real value, and they'll pay more to store it than it is worth.

    It won't happen to me though...I live in a little apartment, and I am not going to be a horrible packrat like my parents. My mother still has 6000 sq ft of clutter in a 2000 sq ft house, and that's after 5 years in an antique mall and several garage sales. A covered car is worth more to me. Sometimes I like to think about what I'd have with a bigger garage. Another fintail? Some other Mercedes? Maybe an older car?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    when I lived in my condo, there were 8 units in our little court, each with a 1-car garage. Here's a rundown of what they were used for...

    Me: storage either for my Catalina or DeSoto. I used to rotate them between my garage and my grandmother's. Plus, I had a few boxes and shelves packed into the side
    Neighbor #1: pool table and storage
    Neighbor #2: storage
    Neighbor #3: stored an '88 or so Cavalier in there that I swear I never saw move
    Neighbor #4: storage, motorcycle, motorcycle trailer
    Neighbor #5: storage
    Neighbor #6: parked his car in the garage
    Neighbor #7: stored a pop-up trailer and a bunch of other stuff packed in there.

    So out of these 8 garages, only three people used them for cars. And then, only one used it for the car he drove every day, versus storing a car for a longer term.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    I know I've bounced back and forth on this, I'm so undecided as to the fate of my beloved truck. I really do love the darn thing, but we could do so much more if we had a 3/4 ton or 1 ton. We still have 30 cords of firewood to deliver (have to go get it first). Did 6 cords yesterday, but could only bring out 5, very frustrating!

    We are going to the Nissan dealer (again) and hubby is going to look over that 01 F-250 V10. I figure if he's there they will stand up and take notice...........he's never with me, usually I do the numbers and he comes in and signs. If he's there they know they could have a deal that day. I pulled a carfax on the truck and its a 1 owner truck, nothing hinky about it.........unlike the GMC I was looking at.

    My Titan is averaging between 12 and 14 mpg, I figure that V10 won't be much worse, our V10 averages between 8-10 mpg (but that's loaded all the time).

    Decisions, Decisions.

    BTW, We've had Zippy for nearly 15 months, the Dodge for just shy of 2 years, and the Titan for just shy of a year (will be a year for the Titan and 2 years for the Dodge on Nov 12th).
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 31,352
    I can already see it. In a couple of months you'll be complaining about gas and wishing you held out for a diesel like you wanted in the first place.

    '94 Pajero 2.8TD, '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c, '21 WRX, '20 S90 T6, '22 4xE, '92 Nissan Gloria 3.0; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel. 65-car history and counting! '97 Suzuki R Wagon, '97 Alto Works on the way; Wagoneer L on order; and in queue for Lucid Air Pure, Blazer EV, and Fisker Ocean.

  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    I can already see it. In a couple of months you'll be complaining about gas and wishing you held out for a diesel like you wanted in the first place

    I'm not a big fan of diesels, we've had 2 and the fuel economy (doing what we do with them) wasn't that much better (maybe 1-2 mpg) than our V10. However, having heavy equipment there are some advantages to having a diesel truck. ;)

    We'll see, I'm not too worried either way. Keep in mind its all a write off for the business.
  • tommister2tommister2 Mechanicsville, VAMember Posts: 380
    I feel your pain! I have been disappointed by the new cars lately (but I still love to look).

    Tom in Virginia
    2011 Toyota Camry, 2014 Jeep Wrangler, 2017 Honda Civic Coupe, 2019 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XSE, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2022 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Tesla Model 3
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Over the weekend, I was perusing the on-line ads and found what might be a good car for the daughter.

    2002 Chevy Malibu LS, 55K, 3.1L V6, power everything, ABS, keyless remote, alloy wheels. Dark grey with grey cloth interior. Asking $9400.

    So, today at lunch I stopped by the dealer to take a closer look. Body looks straight, but the front tires were BF Goodrich (fairly new) and the rears were Goodyears (pretty worn).

    Car drove pretty nicely ... no major body issues, A/C blew cold, no sqeaks or rattles anywhere, everything seemed to work fine. Edmunds TMV, Kelley Blue Book and Intellichoice all price the car around what the dealer is asking. Told the salesman about what I was looking for (car for daughter, can't drive a stick, would be trading in the Focus).

    He, of course, thinks that we can do a deal ... I'm hoping to keep the payments around 300/mo for 36 months. Research on the Focus pegs the trade in value between $7300 and $7900 .. I owe something like $9K, so we'd have to figure out how to deal with that.

    We did take a look in the owners manual and it says that the transmission fluid is to be changed at 50K; at 60K, the only issue above LOF and tire rotation is to check the accessory drive belt (?). I would want the tire situation addressed and the transmission service done before going any further.

    Of course, all of this is contingent on getting the buy in from both Mrs. Michaell and the daughter.

    (NOTE: I washed the Saturn over the weekend and noticed that it only has 42.5K on it, which means that the daughter has put only 2000 miles on the car in the last 4 months - with the Chevy at 55K, I figure she'll put - maybe - 20-25K on the car in the next three years at most, and that's if she goes to college at her first choice, which is about an 80 mile drive from where we live.)

    I mentioned the Malibu to the wife briefly over the weekend and her first comment was that the daughter didn't want a Malibu. Perhaps she might reconsider?
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,455
    give her a choice: the malibu, the stick shift Focus, or whatever she wants to buy with her own money!

    Wonder what she picks???

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    Where I am at in the midwest you can get a 2004 Malibu Classic with 25-30K on it for $10,400 -10,900. I believe all Classics have the equipment you mention. Check it out.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    because a lot of those ex-rental "Classics" only have the 2.2 Ecotech in them, and not a V-6!
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    There are similar deals here in Denver on '04 Malibus ... the issue I am having is finding a car with ABS. Another dealer is offering '04 Aleros for about $9500 or so. 2.2L 4-banger with automatic, power stuff, keyless remote and alloy wheels. Again, no ABS available.

    stickguy - as much as I'd like to "stick" her with the Focus (pun intended), I don't really have a huge problem driving it for the time being. It's just that I miss the power of the 24 valve V6, even though it means a bigger fuel bill. It cost me $28 to fill the Focus this morning - just a touch over 32MPG.
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Member Posts: 188
    I understand the ABS thing, but I think in Classics the last 2-3 years the only engine was the 3.1.
  • gussguss Member Posts: 1,167
    I think you can do better than $9400.

    About a year ago I bought an 2003 Malibu with 15k miles on it for my mother in law. She paid $9,900 for it. It was an ex-rental, but was in excellent shape. My mechanic said all it needed was brakes and the dealer put them on.

    She has not had any problems with it. Thank goodness because she would let me hear about it.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    My great-aunt traded her 1995 Cutlass for a 2001 Malibu when my dad was working for a Pontiac dealership in 2001-02. She had a couple of CEL issues, was involved in a couple of fender benders in it, and traded it for a 2004 Century this year.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Nope, a lot of the '04 Classics for sale in and around Denver offer the 2.2L 4-cylinder engine.

    And, in my research, I found I was wrong on the HP .. for 2002, the 3.1L V6 offered 170HP, not the 155 that I thought. So, not much less than the 182HP I have in the L300 .. the only difference is that the Saturn's engine is an overhead cam, while the Malibu is an overhead valve -- very noticable when you step on the throttle. At least, to me it's noticable.

    Mentioned the Malibu to my wife, who says I have to talk to daughter. Will do that tonight after she gets off work ... perhaps I can convince her to come to dealership tomorrow and take a closer look (she's on fall break from HS this week and is not working tomorrow).

    I think my biggest concern now is getting the most for the trade in of the Focus ... I can get the $$ to cover the difference (split between us and kid), but the smaller that number is, the better. The salesman wanted me to have the Focus appraised today while I was at the dealer, but I begged off until I had the chance to talk to the family about it.

    Insurance actually works out in our favor ... daughter would save $22/month on her insurance payment, according to State Farm.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,183
    Around here in NY, I see those Malibus real cheap. Now that 2006 is upon us, won't that same money get you into a 2002 4 cyl Accord or Camry? I haven't shopped for a Malibu lately, but isn't $7,500 about right?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    Michaell, I'm not sure, but I think the 3.1 in the '97-99 Malibu had 155 hp, and it was bumped to 170 hp for 2000. The '97-99 actually had a 2.4 DOHC inline 4 standard, with 150 hp. It was basically a watered-down, but more reliable version of the Olds Quad 4.

    I had a 2001 Malibu rental a few years back. Its 3.1 was decent around town, and acceleration for merging onto a highway was okay, but highway passing was poor. It just seemed to get winded once you got up around 70-75 mph.

    Even though the L-series 3.0 only has 182 hp, I'm guessing it has a much better torque/power curve. I think I've seen 0-60 times of around 7 seconds for the L-series V-6, versus a more mundane 8.8 or so for the Malibu 3.1.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,183
    My bad on the pricing. I did a quick search on Auto Trader and that seems like a good price. One buick dealer with notoriously high prices on his used cars actually had a few low mileage examples for $13,995. By the end of the run for that car, I don't think that you could go over $15,000 loaded for a new one so why would you go that high for a used one?

    The prices on used Accords are astronomical. V6 2002 models are close to 20 large. I know that these cars are in demand but if you figure it was about 25k new, it should have lost more than 20% of it's value in almost 4 years.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    The wife and I talked about it more last night ... basically, it comes down to trading in a 2003 MY car with 32K miles for a 2002 MY car with 55K miles and paying more for it doesn't seem like a smart move. The wife would rather go the new car route if we did anything.

    So, it looks like I'll be driving the Focus for a while longer ... however, when the Saturn Sky is released next year, perhaps the Focus might go at that time!

    But, I also have to say that I've been admiring the Ford Fusion lately ... perhaps a loaded SEL 4-cylinder with a stick shift might work. :)
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,183
    I saw my first couple of Fusions on the road and was disappointed. I don't think that it looks as good in person as it does in pictures. Particularly on the front, it had some unusually large gaps under the grille and in the bezels on the bumper where the optional fog lights would go. Maybe it would look better with the foggies.

    I had thught that it could be a contender for my next car but now I don't know.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I haven't yet seen a Fusion other than in pictures, but have done a little research on line to see what the dealers are carrying.

    I'm seeing more than a few 5-speeds, both in the SE and SEL trim levels. The V6's seem to lean more towards the SE trim. Most of the cars are coming with ABS, which I like.

    4-cylinders are running around $20-21K; most of the SE trim level V6's are going for $22-23K, with a few loaded models in the $25-26K range.
  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,183
    20-21k for a four banger?? They're going to have to do better than that. 4 cyl Accords, Camrys and Altimas can be had all day long for $17-18k. Since the car is based on the 6, it's not really all new and is probably on the smaller side for the class. They've got to get that car in the teens if it's going to be competitive.

    I looked on ford's website and every pic of the Fusion includes the fog lights.
  • asafonovasafonov MinneapolisMember Posts: 401
    Another dealer is offering '04 Aleros for about $9500 or so. 2.2L 4-banger with automatic, power stuff, keyless remote and alloy wheels.

    Didn't the Aleros have pretty dismal crash scores?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    was around $24,000. It had a sunroof, alloys, V-6, automatic, pretty nicely equipped, but it did have a cloth interior. Not sure of the trim level.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,455
    you can get it nicely equipped in the teens, comparable to the CamCord. And remember, that is sticker. Even the big 2 are MSRP a lot higher than they are retailing for.

    It is based on the 6, but an expanded platform. It is actually very roomy, at least as big and comfy as the 2 unmentionables.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    20-21k for a four banger?? They're going to have to do better than that. 4 cyl Accords, Camrys and Altimas can be had all day long for $17-18k.

    I agree completely. At anything over 16K + ttl, it's a financial bath waiting to happen.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,455
    on an Accord, not for a loaded one (EX, EX-L) that sticker for 23k- 24.7K for a 4 cyl 5 speed. Not sure about Camrys, but I never looked to close since I would never consider owning one.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • gsemikegsemike Long Island, NYMember Posts: 2,183
    on the Accord is not loaded. That's the basic 4 cyl A/T with AC, windows, locks and single CD. I have seen loaded 4 cyl models sticker for 25ish with leather, moonroof, the works. Why anyone would go that high for a 4 cyl model is beyond me.

    As long as the Fusion offers that same basic version in the teens it should be a contender. After the so so showing of the 500, Ford needs this model to make some noise. While the 500 is pretty blah, there's something about the look of the montego that I think is pretty snazzy. I recognize that they're practically identical except for the grill but the merc just looks way better to me.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Just for giggles and grins, I did a quick search of the inventory at the closest Honda dealer for 2006 Accords .. found the following:

    EX with auto -- $23,800
    EX with stick -- $23,000
    EX-L with auto -- $25,500.

    These are for 4-cylinder cars! I paid $24,200 3 years ago for my Saturn L300 with the V6, leather, sunroof, ABS/TC, alloys ... basically, a loaded car.

    The closest Ford dealer to my office has 3 Fusions:

    SEL with stick (4-cyl) -- $21,045 ($20.045 after rebates)
    SE V6 with auto -- $22,360 ($21,360 after rebates)
    SEL V6 with auto + leather -- $25,650 (24,650 after rebates)

    So ... lessee here ... $25K will get me either a 166HP 4-cylinder Accord with a 5-speed automatic or a 220HP V6 Fusion with a 6-speed automatic. The only significant difference in equipment is the lack of a sunroof on the Fusion (an extra $895, IIRC).
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    Why anyone would go that high for a 4 cyl model is beyond me.

    There is a market for well-equipped cars that get good fuel economy, especially with the current price of gas.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    Agreed, but the MPG numbers for the Accord 4-cylinder with automatic are 24 city and 34 hwy, while the Fusion V6 is rated at 21 city, 29 hwy.

    (For comparison's sake, the Fusion 4-cyl with auto has an EPA rating of 24/32, while the Accord V6 auto gets 20/29)

    Now, I'm not dissing on the Accord -- I've owned three of them in the past (an '85 LX hatchback, a '92 LX sedan and a '93 DX sedan) -- but I've come to believe that Honda isn't the be-all, end-all when it comes to cars. It seems as if Honda is fairly arrogant in their pricing -- sort of BMW-like, in a way.

    The exterior design, over the years, has fluctuated wildly, but that's more of a personal issue than anything else. The interior design is about as ergonomically perfect as can be, but I guess I'd also describe it as .... dull. The Fusion, OTOH, looks pretty good to me, both inside and out (at least, based on the pictures I've seen). While Ford is probably not quite at Honda levels of interior quality, it's pretty close.

    Anyway, as my lovely bride says, "that's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream" ... so's you have a choice. Some folks wouldn't touch the Ford with a 10 foot poll; others wouldn't be caught dead in the Honda, for whatever reason.
  • trucker50trucker50 Member Posts: 108
    Anybody know how the 500 and Fusion stack up against each other in interior room?
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    Wow! I wouldn't buy from that Honda dealer. Here in Texas you can get 2006 Accords for the following (w/o haggling, a "1 price" dealer):

    2006 EX - $21940
    2006 EX-L - $23436
    2006 EX-V6 - $24995

    Can imagine you could go lower if you have some decent negotiating skills at other Honda dealers.

    Fusion's a 1st year model and we all know what that could mean; unlikely to match Honda's reliability, safety, etc. A "no brainer" and I've looked at both of them.
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