Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

123572801

Comments

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaMember Posts: 5,516
    Our 2006 Civics just arrived and I spent half a day at work making excuses to drive the 2006 Civic coupe. Now I'm kicking myself that I just picked up the 2005 LX coupe a month ago and didn't wait. :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:

    At least I got low rates and Honda money.

    Gotta find someone to take over my lease.

    I need an 06 Civic. I need an 06 Civic.

    2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    Silver/black... Good taste! :P
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    No talk of revoking my CCBA membership for those comments?? Wow, lol. I did come close to calling my Ford salesguy about a new F-350, but didn't do it. Definatly could have, have enough $$$ to put down to cover any neg in the Titan plus get a Ford at a great price........nah, I'll keep my Titan. ;)

    Oh and I got a new job, was hired today, so have to give my 2 weeks notice at my other job when I get off my week's vacation (will probably do it Friday). So now instead of driving 164 miles/day I'll only be driving 52 miles/day. Gas will go from $320/mo to $85/mo. However, I'm going from $11.35/hr to $8.00/hr, but I think that its worth it since I'll have more time for the kids and be driving a LOT less. Only going to work 4 days/week too.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Gee refuses to buy any car without gray/black interior. His Lexus is the exception and that's just because it was cheap.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    I'm curious as to what an '01 540i with 90K+ miles is really worth. I'd think it's gotta(?) be worth the $16K(?). But I have been more aware recently of how fast bmw's depreciate (as in, checking the value of my 2000 528i with miniscule miles). Lately I've been really glad I have the I6 instead of the V8 when I buy gas. I do admit to having a certain kind of envy (akin to what Freud popularized) when I see a 540i tho. Bummer it doesn't have service records--would be great if it had a lot of stuff already replaced.....I'd budget $1K to $2K per year for maint. & repairs on a car like that......btw can I drive it? :)
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    OK, so I spent the day car shopping with my friend yesterday, looking to buy either a Civic or RSX. Here's a brief-as-possible breakdown.

    First stop, impromptu visit to Mitsu dealer (in Matteson, IL auto mall with ~20 makes) to test drive an Eclipse (she thought it was 'cute'). She actually liked it (we tested a 4-cyl GS with sunroof and upgraded Fosgate stereo), so did I but I knew it never really was in the running, she's a Honda loyalist. Good stereo, but some strange ergonomics (climate and stereo readouts in the center of upper dash), one of the raspier-sounding fours I've heard in a while, and the body was a bit bulbous compared to a Civic or RSX. Also, it has a four-speed auto where the other two have five. That said, the sticker was a reasonable ~$22k, and I think we could have knocked a bit off that, given how Mitsus are selling now.

    Second stop, closest Honda dealer, at the same auto mall. They had exactly ONE '06 Civic (a black with tan cloth LX coupe) in stock, already sold, so we couldn't even test drive. Our salesguy was a green pea (first week), nice guy, then we got a 'closer' who really tried to get us to put down a deposit ('but it's refundable', he says--on a car we hadn't even driven); we said no, at which point he basically implied that we were out of luck. We had already given the salesguy her info and what we'd like, so after that we were on our way.

    Third, another Honda dealer. They had four '06 Civics (including a beautiful Atomic Blue EX sedan I loved), we test drove an EX coupe automatic; nice car, and I even fit OK in the back seat with the sunroof (I'm 6'0"). She seemed to like it quite a bit, but the coupe we drove was white/tan (I advised to never buy any car with light tan cloth), so they would have to locate what she wanted. I should note that neither dealer had a manual Civic, and I didn't see any manual Accords, though I didn't look thoroughly and both dealers had tons of them. Just an aside, am I the only one who thinks almost $20k ($19610 MSRP for an EX automatic, and nobody's discounting a cent) for a 140hp Civic is a bit crazy?

    On to the Acura dealer, just down the street. We test drove a base, leather, automatic RSX in white, not her color choice. After I compared stats between it and the Integra, I figured (since I wasn't aware yet, the salesguy confirmed) that they were built off the same platform. Bottom line, she drove it (said it felt 'natural', can't imagine why!), loved it and put down a deposit on one in Jade Green metallic; salesguy claims they sell a lot in that color. Funny, I've never seen one, and the closest I could find on AutoTrader was in Kansas City (~400 miles away). I'm happy for her, though I probably would have chosen the Civic (though I'm a sedan guy, hands down), just for the $3k savings (she's also paying MSRP on the RSX), the fact that it's a 'newer' car and that the RSX is supposedly a lame duck; she keeps cars ten years, after all. But, in her defense, she felt better in the RSX, the dash is definitely less fussy, controls more user friendly (and she's 4'11", so reachability is an issue) and the RSX has leather (big mistake not offering it in upper Civics, IMO).

    Oh yeah, both the Honda and Acura dealers offered her $3k in trade on her Integra. It's only got 35k but does have a couple issues (pretty seriously oxidized paint, a bit of the usual rust on both rear wheelwells, fussy driver's window switch, glitchy power locks), but the interior is decent, the stereo, antenna, windows and roof work fine and the air is ICE cold. Runs great, too (I drove all day); reminds me, especially on the interstate, why I'd never get a 4-cylinder automatic, though; had to plan those passing maneuvers, definitely. She doesn't want to sell it on her own (she's single, 4'11" and 62 years old, I don't blame her), she's got a friend interested in it for her teenager (perfect!), but if that doesn't work out, it will be traded. She'd also get the tax savings on the trade (~$200, big deal).
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    ...budget $1K to $2K per year for maint. & repairs on a car like that.

    And that's if you drive 10-15,000 miles per year...
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    ...she's single, 4'11" and 62 years old...

    Wow, I don't think she is/was in the target market for the Civic, Eclipse, RSX or Integra--more power to her for buying and driving what she likes! :D
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 55,341
    Too bad about the condition of that Acura. I guess it's the weather there. I am sure some boy racer would love to find a creampuff example.

    But 3K isn't bad for one with cosmetic issues...I am sure she could have bought a Lumina or Taurus back then for the same money, and it wouldn't bring the 3K she was offered for the Acura even if it was pristine.
  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Yeah, & assuming nothing "drastic" happens. Or even if you get into a period where it needs new exhaust, new suspension, cooling system repairs, etc., you could run up $5-$6K of repair bills in a heartbeat. I've noticed even some of the most hard-core bmw fanatics start to fret as their warranties run out.....If it was me, I'd up the budget by what? $7K? & get an E-39 530i with 1/2 the miles (or less). Maybe even CPO.

    *...budget $1K to $2K per year for maint. & repairs on a car like that.*

    *And that's if you drive 10-15,000 miles per year...*
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    Yeah, it is kind of strange to see a woman her age driving an Integra or RSX. She's single, her son is long since married (he was one of my best childhood friends), so she doesn't really need 'practical' (though the hatchback has come in handy many times, she says). She had an '86 Accord before the Integra, and, would you believe a '79 Grand Marquis before that? Her cars are getting younger.

    Fin, the condition, I guess, isn't as bad as I make it sound; it's a great '20 footer', as they say. The rust on the wheelwells is very minor, no holes and it's only visible up close; the oxidation is visible, kinda looks like frost, probably the result of the combination of extremes we get here in weather, and the fact that it's a dark color. Oh yeah, and no garage, no shade in the driveway.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    The last Integra still had wishbones they started with struts with the RSX.

    As far as maint on the Bimmer...As long as the engine/tranny doesn't go south I feel I'd be okay. I have no problem getting salvage parts and as far as the exhaust...I'm already thinking Dinan for a lot of stuff. My budget was up to $37k for a G35 coupe. But a $16k 540 is an easy compromise. I figure if I keep it running 5 years I'd probably lose 16K in depreciation on anything new that compares. If I spend another $10K on this thing it better have a supercharger.

    Which by the way would get me over 400hp.

    Anony wouldn't let me.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,456
    actually talked numbers. But, since the dealer didn't say something that sounded good, I left in the old wheels.

    The Honda place happened to have a couple of left over 2005 EX-L 5 speed Accords. Drove one, and it was very nice, and would probably be a great car to keep for the next 10 years. Not exciting, but comfortable and nice driving.

    But, they seemed to think it should be priced like an '06 (I probably would have taken the offer if it was!), and had a much different opinion of the value of my current car than Terry did, so no deal.

    The Accord was silver, probably not my first choice, so it would have to be a hell of an offer to make me pull the trigger (probably 4K less difference). But, at least we are moving closer to something!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    and kicked out of the CCBA club, but I'm going to make a pact with myself not to buy another car before Memorial Day Weekend, 2008. Why that date? Well, if I can behave myself out on the roads until then (or at least, not get caught when I'm bad :blush: ) I'll be back to having a clean driving record!

    That being said, now watch something REALLY catch my eye and get me lusting!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 210,283
    Speaking of 5-series....

    In my local paper today... '02 530i with 39K... asking $21,900.. from a private seller...

    I think I'd rather go that direction... though, I didn't see an option list with that ad...

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • woodywwwoodyww Member Posts: 1,806
    Lots of used bmw's out there. Many or most with less miles than this one. And many that are already all Dinan-ed up for which the previous owner usually gets zilch. I dunno.....lots & lots of choices in used bmw's. Personally I'd go for one with way less miles & an I-6, even if you're blown away by the V8 right now.......& these high miles will not be your friend.

    *But a $16k 540 is an easy compromise*
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Before passing on the Freestyle, drive it and compare it to the Odyssey, then fill it up with stuff & compare it's space to the MDX.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    before the redesigned RAV4 is introduced, I find myself wanting one. I hear the next one will get too big, and probably a lot more pricey. I have located what seems to be the last 5 speed manual 4WD in the Bay Area, drove it tonight, dealer won't budge below invoice. Left in my own car, but have not dismissed it yet. I liked the drive more than I thought I would, it would be the perfect snow car that I could still drive to work every day. Am going to see if anyone will offer me any money for my car...

    Uh oh. Here I go again, after I thought I swore this off!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    I saw a quick article in this months C&D or Automobile that showed a picture of the new RAV4 ... supposed to be available with a 268HP V6 in addition to the 4-cylinder. Yes, it seems to be a larger vehicle than a gen-2 RAV.

    How far apart were you and the dealer?
  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    it would be the perfect snow car that I could still drive to work every day

    Snow car. You live in the bay area don't you.
    Any car with 4 wheels is the perfect snow car in the bay area.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    It's funny you mention that... Right after the Freestyle came out, I saw one on the interstate filled up with stuff, and the low-hanging tailpipe was about to drag the ground!

    Did I ever post my theory on the 1996-generation Explorer rollovers? This may have no scientific basis, but here goes: I noticed a ton of Explorers that, when traveling at interstate speed, would "lean" backwards--the rear end of the truck would squat down close to the ground. Perhaps they were carrying a lot of cargo, but it doesn't make sense, given the number of these that I saw. I suspect that some combination of bad aerodynamics pushed the rear of the car down too hard at high speed, placing more weight than was intended on the rear axle. Carrying rear passengers or cargo would only compound this effect. Perhaps this was intended to provide additional rear traction and stability to prevent oversteer, but became dangerous when the car was loaded down. With the rear axle loaded down in this manner, the tires are probably above their weight limits at the recommended pressure (26 psi?), and are being subjected to more impact harshness and stress when driving over pockmarked pavement due to the reduced suspension travel caused by the loading of the live rear axle. This is the perfect recipe for overloading and blowing out a rear tire, which is very likely to result in a loss of control. Also, the lack of downward force on the front end of the car would make it much harder to steer, making it easier to lose control...

    So, did I earn my pseudo-expert witness badge with that? :P
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Maybe that's why the Freestyle has a fifth wheel on the bottom of the muffler!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    We were somewhere around $2000 apart, considering my car as a trade. I am hoping to pick up the 2 grand by selling it privately, in which case I am willing to pay invoice for the RAV.

    I DID see that the next RAV will have an optional V-6 and lots of other "improvements". With the extension of the platform to allow for a third row seat it will have (optional), I figure it will be about as big as the current Highlander, which is bigger than I would like. The thing is, the current model is so maneuverable because it has such a short wheelbase, which is why I like it. Plus half my aim here is to get a four-door for carrying kids in the back, which the back seat of the current RAV is certainly big enough to do. Wouldn't put two adult friends back there for more than an hour though.

    zodiac: I appreciate your perspective, but the reason I want 4WD for snow trips is that CHP generally lets 4WDs go by without installing chains, except in blizzard conditions. It is also a good dirt road car, which I do plenty of when I camp.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • zodiac2004zodiac2004 Member Posts: 458
    zodiac: I appreciate your perspective, but the reason I want 4WD for snow trips is that CHP generally lets 4WDs go by without installing chains, except in blizzard conditions. It is also a good dirt road car, which I do plenty of when I camp.


    So you drive to Reno a lot .... you a skier or a gambler.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    I drive to Tahoe a lot, and/or the ski areas around Donner Summit/Soda Springs. Not a gambler, nope, what an expensive little hobby THAT would be! :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    A third row? The next RAV is going to be a lot bigger than this one--the current one is shorter than quite a few compact cars.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Seems like everyone is trying to put a 3rd row in their SUVs...I'm waiting for the bigger SUVs to start offering a 4th row!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    the new RAV will be just long enough for the third row to be an afterthought that can only really seat children, which is what the Highlander's is now. But then the Highlander will be all-new for the 2007 MY, arriving six to nine months after the new RAV, and I am sure that will get commensurately longer too so that Toyota's own models don't step on each other's toes.

    The current Highlander is a big vehicle for my tastes. I don't need the back seat every day, just a couple times a week. The AWD I need 15 long weekends a year. :-)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    was interested in the RAV4, until someone at his job badmouthed it. The parents of one of his co-workers has one, and supposedly she borrowed it a few times, and ragged on how slow it was. She said that when you turn the a/c on, out on the highway, it really kills the car's power. Well, the same thing happens to my buddy's Tracker when he turns the a/c on, so it gave him enough of a deja vu to cross it off his list!

    But doesn't the RAV4 have a Camry engine in it? Seems to me that should be enough to power something like a RAV. And incidentally, another vehicle on his list is the Element. But since that one has an Accord engine, which is about the same size/power as the Camry, it seems to me that theoretically it would have the same problem with a/c!

    Anyway, I told him that he should at least try the RAV out, but he won't listen. Still, even if the a/c does kill the car's power, I'm sure it's still gotta perform better than his Tracker would!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 46,456
    I'm doing this from memory, but I think it has a 2.0l engine, more of a COrolla than Camry level. The Highlander uses the Camry 2.4l as the base engine.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD , 2022 Ford Maverick Lariat Ecoboost FWD.

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaMember Posts: 12,555
    that 2.4 is the RAV's only engine,and yes it is the Camry engine. The difference between Element and RAV is about 500 pounds in the AWD. The Element is a porker, and fuel economy suffers proportionally.

    When I test drive, I make a practice of leaving the A/C on the entire time, even if it is chilly out. Gives you an idea of how much the power suffers with it on. The RAV is plenty spritely enough with it running, I wouldn't call it slow. It is geared about the same as my RSX, and has about the same torque-to-weight ratio (is there such a thing?!), so it feels peppy on the street and has decent passing power at highway speeds.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • paulhuangpaulhuang Member Posts: 62
    I think the first generation RAV4 had a 2.0 liter engine. I can see how that can be totally sapped on the highway with the AC on. The current ones have a 2.4 liter engine, so it should be fine on power.
  • fitguyfitguy Member Posts: 220
    You have a good observation on '96-'01 Explorers- the have a weak rear suspension. I had a '97 V8 w/tow package, rated 6400 lbs, and even with moderate tongue weight it sagged like crazy. Power and gearing were correct, suspension was not. I just got an '05 Explorer V8 and the difference is astounding.
    And it has a 3rd row seat you can actually fit an adult up to about 6' for short trips, maybe up to an hour. These manufacturers that are clamoring to stuff a 3rd row seat into a small SUV are idiots- most won't even fit a child (ie, Pathfinder and Highlander).
    Anyhow, I ramble- my post was to say I now have 1 brand-new and 1 nearly-new vehicles and now I am looking to find a used Miata for warm-weather fun. I know I am sick but judging by the other posts here, apparently not alone! :shades:
  • wtd44wtd44 Member Posts: 1,208
    I've got an '02 Merc Mountaineer and no sag. I hope to keep it for whatever towing I may do. Meanwhile, I'm right there with you on already owning rather new and totally adequate vehicles, yet I yearn for a sports/sporty car on top of it all. I can't go on writing... the sickness is blinding... :confuse:
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    My friend who owns a Highlander has a base 4-cylinder model without the third row. It'd be a little slow for me, but she likes it.

    The Matrix has the Corolla engine in it.

    Went car shopping with my roommate this afternoon. She was considering trading her 1999 Tahoe for a Malibu Maxx or a Vibe, but realized she would miss all the "toys" on the Tahoe. Her comments were that the Malibu Maxx was very plain up close, and the interior was cheap (and the Tahoe interior isn't?). She liked the Vibe interior a lot. All of the cars we looked at appeared to be ex-rentals, but the worst one of all was the Malibu with only 5,000 miles on it!

    I was hoping I would get to do my CCBA thing vicariously... Still working on my dad, asking him if he wouldn't rather have something more reliable and cheaper to operate, like a Saab or Land Rover...
  • jaserbjaserb Member Posts: 820
    The Explorer isn't that big, and the Pathfinder isn't that small. My sister has a new Pathy and while the wayback isn't huge it's comparable to the Explorer. Maybe a bit smaller. Have to agree with you on the Highlander - that back seat is completely pointless. The worst offender has to be the Caddy SRX. Try to climb in there are an auto show or something and you'll see what I mean. Not only is there no leg room, but the bottom of the seat is only like 4 inches off the floor, so even kids have their knees up in their chins.

    -Jason
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    I'm probably looking at this from a different perspective, but so far the only SUV I've seen with what I'd consider an adult-useable back seat is the Ford Excursion! :P
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Based on the Ford website for the Excursion, Explorer, Freestyle:

    Head Room Row:
    1 41.0, 39.8, 39.4
    2 41.1, 38.7, 39.8
    3 38.2, 37.4, 38.6

    Leg Room Row:
    1 41, 42.4, 41.1
    2 40.8, 36.9, 40.4
    3 39, 34.9, 33.3

    To get some perspective, here are the length, width, height:
    Excursion 226.4 x 79.9 x 77.4
    Explorer 193.4 x 73.7 x 72.8
    Freestyle 200.1 x 74.9 x 68.2
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    you have to take those legroom numbers with a grain of salt, although the Explorer does stack up awfully well to the Excursion, at least in published measures. Still, it's funny how actually sitting in the car, large discrepancies can come up. For example, when the stats were first published for the Chrysler LX cars, they listed front legroom at 41.8", which had me worried. My '00 Intrepid is rated at 42.2", which is just barely adequate...in fact, I wish the seat would go back further! So if 42.2" barely cuts it, I figured losing a half-inch off that would be a dealbreaker. But imagine my shock when I sat in one, and it felt like the seat went back a lot further than in my Intrepid! But then the Camry is rated at something like 41.8", and it feels tight to me.

    Sometimes a taller seat will give you more legroom in the way they measure it, but you still might end up being closer to the seatback in front of you. Plus, as you sit higher, your legs will extend outward more horizontally, instead of upward, requiring more room behind the front seatback for your legs.

    Is that 39" measurement for front seat legroom correct for the Freestyle?! I don't think I've seen a measurement that small since your typical early 70's Japanese subcompact! :surprise:
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I know what you mean about the numbers. Plus for rows 2 & 3, I don't know if those are measured with the seat in front fully forward, or back or where? Maybe you could go to a dealer and go into each of vehicles and let us know for real!
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,078
    to do that sometime. Honestly, I don't think I've been in a Freestyle other than at the auto show, and there they had the power disconnected so I couldn't get the front seat comfy. The only time I sat in an Excursion was when I saw one on a local CarMax lot. I was impressed that I could sit in the middle row and the third row, and not have my knees touch the seatback in front of me. Still, with something that huge, I guess you should expect that! I was actually a bit disappointed up front though. I just figured something that size would have more legroom up front!

    And, now that I think about it, I don't think I've tried out all the seating positions of the Explorer. The previous generation used to seem cramped to me, but the new one seems okay up front. I haven't tried out the 3rd row seat though, and can't remember how the middle row was.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Freestyle front seat legroom is 41.1 (more than the Excursion). The numbers 1,2,3 indicate the row number, and going across is Excursion, Explorer, Freestyle. I think you were reading it backwards.

    Head Room Row:
    1 41.0, 39.8, 39.4
    2 41.1, 38.7, 39.8
    3 38.2, 37.4, 38.6

    Leg Room Row:
    1 41, 42.4, 41.1
    2 40.8, 36.9, 40.4
    3 39, 34.9, 33.3
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    We owned an '02 Explorer for a few years (well, leased, but .... whatever), and can tell you that both the second and third row seats weren't too bad.

    Took our kids on a trip from Denver to Vegas in it .. at the time, my stepson was 15 and stepdaughter was 13. He occupied the second row, she took the back row and had one seat folded down in the second row so she could stretch out. Neither kid really complained about space (or the lack thereof) for the 1500 mile round trip.

    In fact, when we first looked at the Explorer, we had both our daughter and her best friend sit in the third row and comment on its comfort. At the time, we were driving the previous generation Expedition, and both of them thought it compared well.

    The nice thing about the Explorer was that the third row folded into the floor (with the Expedition, you had to physically remove the third row), and the mileage was a bit better (Expedition got about 13-14MPG, while the Explorer got 17-18).

    That said, I'm really glad we don't own either of those vehicles anymore .. the kids drive themselves and the wife now drives her VUE AWD V6, which got just over 26MPG on its last tank --- better than the EPA highway number of 25.
  • fitguyfitguy Member Posts: 220
    I have to disagree about the Pathfinder vs Explorer: I'm 5'9" and can't fit in the 3rd row seat of the Pathfinder, also can't get back there without being a contortionist. My knees are at my chest, a big reason being the Pathfinder, besides having the seat too low, has no way to place your feet under the 2nd seat. The Explorer's 3rd seat is higher and farther back, plus the 2nd row is high with plenty of room to place your feet underneath. The Explorer still pales compared to our 2000 Expy, but it's a much smaller vehicle. And humping that 3rd row bench seat in and out of the previous generation Expy's was a labor of hate.
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    XXL = Excursion
    XL = Expedition
    L = Explorer
    M = Windstyle? Freestar? Fivehundredstyle? Don't know what they're called, but they have a van, big sedan, and a crossover thingy in this segment.
    S = Escape
    XS = Focus Wagon
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Probably best to separate SUVs from station wagons:

    SUVs:
    XXL = Excursion
    XL = Expedition
    L = Explorer
    S = Escape

    Station Wagons
    Freestyle (500 wagon)
    Soon to come (Fusion wagon)
    Focus Wagon

    Then you have minivans.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    GM:

    XXL - Suburban, Yukon XL, H1
    XL - Tahoe, Yukon, H2
    L - Trailblazer, Envoy, H3
    M - Torrent, Equinox
    S - VUE, HHR (even though it doesn't come with AWD/4WD)

    DC:

    XXL - None
    XL - Jeep Commander
    L - Grand Cherokee, Durango
    M - Liberty
    S - new Jeeps (Compass?)

    Toyota:

    XXL - none
    XL - Sequoia, Land Cruiser, LX470
    L - 4Runner, GX470
    M - Highlander, RX330, RX400h
    S - RAV4

    Nissan:

    XXL - none
    XL - Pathfinder Armada, QX56
    L - Pathfinder
    M - Murano, FX35, FX45
    S - none
  • corvettecorvette United StatesMember Posts: 9,361
    Then you have minivans.
    L = Windstyle
    M = MPV
    S = Mazda5
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    What does anyone here own?

    I went with the Ford Freestyle because I don't need the offroad capability of an SUV and I didn't like the handling of a minivan. So now I have a 7pass vehicle (with real space behind row 3 and real row 3 adult seating) that gets 25mpg and drives like a car (okay, big wagon!) all for $23K.

    The other crossovers or mid-sized SUVs didn't have the interior space (real 7 pass seating) and anything bigger was either too expensive for me and had lousy mpg.
  • akanglakangl Member Posts: 3,245
    What does anyone here own?

    2004 Nissan Titan CC LE 4x4 (need a bigger truck) :blush:
    2004 Ford Focus ZX3
    1999 Dodge Ram 3500 V10 4x4
Sign In or Register to comment.