I'm paying cash for my Prius. And the 300M is a money pit...I'm taking it in Monday for the SECOND transmission this year. Didn't bother to fix the AC compressor or evaporator core that went out in July...that's two grand. Also had to fix shift cable (almost a grand) and the windows came off track twice (total of $500 for those repairs). Not to mention that city driving 80-90% of the time is not that cars forte. Trust me...in this case, I will most likely save MORE than $550 per year versus keeping the current car. I've got a "gut feeling" that Toyota will prove to be far more reliable than a Chrysler.
If we want to break down payments:
Old payment $0 Trade in value - laughable New payment $0
Some people lead, others follow and yet still others procrastinate. Whats in a name like PRIUS? I guess in my case its whats in this amazing car. A transmittion that never lugs thru shifts, milagein the realm of fantastic (49-56mpg), A tank that lasts 475 miles b/4 fill ups (fewer visits to the watering hole), Roominess like you wouldn't believe (remember this not a compact.it's classified as a mid-size comparable to a Camry). Lots of storage space, Insignificant pollutents. The stying of the Prius is striking and inovative. The hatchback w/ folddown r seats smart and practical. How about an 8 yr warranty on the Hybrid System. Toyota stands behind this car of the times. Cons... learning the gadgetry & new style levers and buttons, no sunroof, Rr window thats hard to see out, and a handful of small quarks that take some getting use to. After 13k miles we love our GREEN CAR. NICKNAME of CAR...BLEWBYU LIC. PLATE........56MPG STICKER...........SCREWOPEC CULLIGANMAN (toot toot ding ding)
Railroadjames said : "and a handful of small quarks that take some getting use to. "
What quarks???
The IFs If the wait weren't so long? IF the Toyota dealers weren't so haughty; this really upsets me and a lot of other Toyota/Lexus oweners. IF there was a manual shift 6-speed version, IF there were power seats, If the car were truly Mid-sized? IF there were a sunroof or at least solar cells on the current roof? ... Of course if frogs had wings they could fly
At some point ya just have to trust Toyota and the reputation of their product. Now...as to the warranty *yrs /or 100,000 miles on the "HRBRID DRIVETRAIN"....That means: "Stealth(means quiet) Electric Drive Sys"...The Electrics Sys. of and on the Stealth Driveline. The Battery (Panisonic) and by the way Panisonic/Toyota stand behind this power source with a lengthy history of extensive testing of their battery during the 90's. I've seen several test reports and they're impressive. As to the shortage of cars, well, just understand that when you've got a good thing (as Toyota does) then you try to keep up with the (worldwide) de- mand. This is no easy task all the while main- taining their quality control. Gas is currently @ $2.17 per gal in N.W. Indiana and my last fillup was $15.08 while my son's fillup was $67.40 last nite. He goes about 270 miles (at best) on a tank. I get 508 on a tank. Do the math. Quirks are getting use to the low Rr window. Getting use to the silence in a parking lot (tends to scare people) Finally the Computer screen takes some care and finese. You'd have to have one to understand.
Just bought a Honda Civic Hybrid and like it so far. Why'd we buy it? We wanted to. We bought it for no good reason, other than the idea appealed to us, which is the same reason that people spend thousands of extra dollars on oversized wheels and tires, SUVs that they seldom use the cargo carrying capacity of, sports cars that can hit 160 mph, and so on.
I find the extended and obsessive-compulsive discussions - and that's what they are, clinically diagnostic proof of imbalances in the psyche - of whether or not a hybrid is cost-effective to be absurd. It's a sign of how odd our society is that we fail to question why someone would buy oversized vehicles or oversized wheels and tires - are they trying to make up for some sort of personal inadequacy? - and yet we lose our minds over someone investing in clean exhaust and high mileage.
By the way, I'm coming off a Honda Prelude. The current Civic feels remarkably close to the Prelude in many ways, which is a very, very good thing.
I agree with EVERY word you say. I prefer to persue other forums where there is less hostility and less rhetoric. It gets quite tiring seeing the same folks squable over foolish details.
I find the extended and obsessive-compulsive discussions - and that's what they are, clinically diagnostic proof of imbalances in the psyche - of whether or not a hybrid is cost-effective to be absurd.
And why is it absurd ? Remember, hybrids pollute more during manufacture than similar ICE cars, so that effect has to be considered when evaluating emissions. If you claim the cost effectiveness of hybrids as a reason to buy them, of course you will be questioned. If you say you bought a hybrid just because you wanted to, nobody will question you.
It's a sign of how odd our society is that we fail to question why someone would buy oversized vehicles or oversized wheels and tires - are they trying to make up for some sort of personal inadequacy? - and yet we lose our minds over someone investing in clean exhaust and high mileage.
And where do you come up with that conclusion. Have you been to the "I hate SUVs" board. A whole lot more questioning going on there than here.
Dennis posted a graph a while back that bears out the additional pollution created in the manufacturing process for the Prius vs similar sized non-hybrid sized cars. It gives the relative mileage before the Prius becomes less of a polluter. I will try to find that link and post it.
Thanks. It would be nice if it has a little comparison of non-hybrid Civic to hybrid Civic. I'm a little skeptical when it comes to Toyota, but since this issue was raised recently against HCH, having the Honda would help.
It basically is showing that the battery and electric motor account for added pollution during the manufacturing process. The fact that the hybrid burns cleaner after manufacturing gives it an edge after a given mileage.
I will have to see the chart to draw a conclusion. I tried to find out something like this, and returned with an interesting news item... automakers can sometimes inspire dealerships...
A reporter would like to interview someone who has recently purchased a Ford Escape hybrid. Why did you buy it? How do you like it? Please send your daytime contact info and make/model to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, November 3, 2004. Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Hybrid vs ICE only is about the same in the production arena (looking at the chart, little more PM for hybrids, little less HC) so it looks like 6 of one half dozen of the other to me.
I can still feel "green" driving a Prius. Case in point... I picked my daughter up from an after school activity. I parked my car and walked in to get her. On my walk I passed an Expidition, Grand Cherokee, Suburban, Lexus LX470, and Explorer...all parked and idling, getting zero miles per gallon. At least my Prius won't be burning gasoline...even if I stop at the curb and leave it "running".
I believe we will see a series of big jumps in the price of gas again after the 1st of the year. After the elections, no mater who wins or looses. Just a hunch.
Consider buying a hybrid? Reconsider after you learned about the long wait? Whether or not you chose to add your name to the waiting list, a reporter is hoping to hear your perspective. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime contact info by May 27, 2005. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds.com
Just retired. Dont need the big sedan anymore to go to the P.O. and drug store. No need for long distance driving. LOng trip means get on the airplane. Besides , I'm interested in the technology. H T O
For short trips you were better off buying a small car like a Hyundai Accent which is quite reliable and inexpensive. If all I had to do were little trips like that, I would not own my Prius.
....or even better a Toyota Corolla with short distance short trips gas mileage is not your main concern. Also under normal annual driving (15K miles a year) most hybrids don't recover the $2-3,000 hybrid preium for 5-7 years.
I wanted a hybrid because the technology is cool and sensible (why waste energy in brakes when it can be recovered?). I bought the Accord because I wanted a FAST car as well with all the high end power stuff in there.
We picked up our Prius last week. We had no hassles, other than having it delayed at the Port of Los Angeles for an extra week. No waiting list, just a call to the sales lady in Internet Sales and we had it reserved. Got a leather aftermarket upgrade... well worth the money... but got taped for an upgrade to chrome wheels and upgraded tires in lieu of a "premium." We are thrilled by the car's performance, look, feel, comfort and performance... gutsier than I expected. The technology is awesome... still figuring it out. We got the Nav system and all of the bells & whistles that were available for it
My wife drives it and traded in her 2002 VW Bug... turbo... running on premium... 23mpg. With a 80 mile round trip work commute, I calculated the gas savings to be about $1,400-$1,500 annually. Not bad.
We bought is because we fell in love with the car as a green vehicle. More importantly, however, this is an in your face to the oil companies and Detroit. We need to improve vehicle mileage in all categories so that we can lower our dependance upon foreign oil.
I intend to buy a Prius for myself in the ext 1-2 years also.
Good luck with the car! I am sure you'll be pleased. I am getting the 06 as I want to get the fat tax credit that was recently approved. I didn't realize the bugs got such low mileage. You're actually going to double that 23 you were getting!!!
#3 I bought mine in West Tennessee for $22,800. Not a bad price
for a brand new car with everything but the navigation and bluetooth.
#4 Now that I am more concerned with my mileage, I drive 30 mph slower
on the highway. That will save me a ton of money in tickets and insur-
ance costs over time. It may also have saved my life by slowing it
down to a much safer speed.
Reason number 4 are intangibles that you don't see many people posting comments about. These are costs that can really add up for some drivers, like myself, or even be priceless for other drivers.
The main reason for a hybrid in my case is that I would rather pay the premium and know that it's goint to a companies like Toyota or Honda that are actually doing something to reduce our dependancy on oil. So if I'm buying less gas (oil) I at know that the oil companies aren't getting rich on me.
Umm, that one applies to all vehicles. I would get about 35 MPG if I slowed from 80 to 50 on my 2003 CR-V (2.4L ICE only).
But with the prius, By slowing down to 55, I can get more than 3 times the mileage than my old vehicle. Everyone has different incentives and motivations. I guess you have not found yours yet
I have achived just under 31 MPG at an average speed of 60 MPH in my 2003 CR-V; so I was figuring the 35 MPG off of that tank.
I have never had the patience to get out on the highway at 50 MPH (for an entire tank!) and see what it would do. It is bad enough here in the west that we have to go only 75 MPH - it is a long ways between towns in the desert.
1. To save money on fuel purchases. I had 20k set as my max purchase price for a new vehicle to replace my F-150. I considered a Toyota Camry. The Prius is just to ugly to consider driving. the Civic looked like a normal car, fit my price range and gets great fuel economy.
2. To help do my part reducing our nations dependance on foreign oil.
Go a little higher and you can get the 06 Civic. It will eventually become quite ubiquitous, but it much nicer than the previous model. The Prius is not for everyone. I happen to like its futuristic non-comformist looks. Quite easy to spot in a parking lot when I go shopping.
I have achived just under 31 MPG at an average speed of 60 MPH in my 2003 CR-V; so I was figuring the 35 MPG off of that tank.
I have never had the patience to get out on the highway at 50 MPH (for an entire tank!) and see what it would do. It is bad enough here in the west that we have to go only 75 MPH - it is a long ways between towns in the desert.
Actually, I always drive at the speed limit or greater (55+) on the highway, also this forum is "What is your reason for buying a Hybrid?", not What is you reason for NOT buying a Hybrid.
"also this forum is "What is your reason for buying a Hybrid?", not What is you reason for NOT buying a Hybrid."
I was responding to a posted reason for buying a hybrid, which would actually apply to all vehicles. I think it was on topic...
And then, of course, someone asked a question, and it is only common courtesy to answer when asked.
I think I have put forth this opinon before, but in my view the reason for buying a hybrid is higher MPG. I'm not convinced that it helps the environment much otherwise. Of course, higher MPG automatically helps the environment all by itself.
My reason for an interest in a hybrid car has nothing to due with costs or performance. It has to do with gaining independance from oil and oil imports. The less we use, the better off the world will be. I agree that over time costs and performance will improve. But, the big picture is that we have to use less oil, and any technology that can improve our consumption I support.
Then your answer is "hybrids, mass transit, nuclear power and bicycles" and the first and last are pretty insignificant.
People buy hybrids for the right reasons: (1) reduce oil dependence and (2) reduce polution, but hybrids, by themselves, will do very little to solve either of these problems.
Hybrids are a very insignificant % of the current vehicles on the road. I really enjoy my hybrid and I love getting over 50mpg. I look forward to seeing more hybrids and clean diesels coming to the American market. My next vehicle will probably be a clean diesel to compliment my Prius. The best of both worlds. Most probably we'll be getting a Jetta wagon with the TDI.
The fact that hybrids are such a small % of cars is IN ITSELF a good reason to buy a hybrid.
The more on the road, the better we ALL are - cleaner air, reduced fuel usage, more money to the car companies to make even better hybrids in the future, and most importantly - the more hybrids sold, the lower the car companies can set the price of the hybrids, because of the economy of scale.
Folks: ECONOMICS IS NOT THE ONLY FACTOR WHEN SOMEONE BUYS A CAR. PEOPLE BUY A PRIUS BECAUSE IT IS COOL. I often wonder if any of you have ever talked with a Prius owner
It is very tiring to hear so many of of you holding Prius buyers to some bizarre standard, when your own decisions would certainly fail when held to that standard. You think your puchase of your new Tacoma withstands an economic analysis? I beg to differ.
People buy what they buy for whatever reason that they buy it. MANY factors are relevant, including image.
I talked to a new Prius owner this morning. Trust me, this guy is smart. He is engineering equipment that is saving lives as we speak. I asked about his new Prius and he gushed about it. I said, "well, it's not a good car to buy, simply based on economics" and he started to disagree with me. I said, "Well, some would say you could save as much gas and spend a lot less money if you simply bought a Corolla." He pondered for a couple of seconds and said, "Yes, that is true, but Prius is WAYY cooler than a Corolla"
sounds a lot like what a guy might say about his Camaro purchase...or his Tacoma purchase...etc.
You are correct that "emotion" plays a huge part in car buying, and some people want hybrids "JUST BECAUSE IT'S A HYBRID!" or just because it's a cool car.
This is a mistake that GM has admitted to making - to ONLY considering the economic aspect and not the emotional aspect of car buying when deciding a few years ago to stay out of the Hybrid market.
The problem for hybrid makers is that the volume of sales based on emotion are NOT going to occur in large enough quantities to make the hybrids permanently profitable, at today's hybrid component costs.
i wonder how many people buy hybrids because they think it is going to save them some money. i know someone who told me their priius would pay for itself in 3 years over their 5 year old minivan. they drive about 12k per year. i'm pretty skeptical as far as that scenario goes.
2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
My 2005 Prius gets about 50 MPG on average for the type of driving I do. I owned a '97 Grand Marquis that gave me about 18 MPG. Driving 12000 miles a year, based on 3.00 per gallon, it cost about $2,000 per year for gas. The Prius at 50 MPG costs about $720. That's a saving of $1280. While it won't pay for itself in 5 or 6 years, it does cover the cost of the insurance and some of the oil changes. And besides, it is practically emission free.
What about the 20K or so extra you had to spend to get the Prius over the GM. That buys a lot of gas, and may be a couple more used GMs if your old one craps out.
If you drive 12K / year, fuel cost is a small part of car ownership costs. Depreciation on a new car is a much bigger component.
Comments
If we want to break down payments:
Old payment $0
Trade in value - laughable
New payment $0
The hatchback w/ folddown r seats smart and practical. How about an 8 yr warranty on the Hybrid System. Toyota stands behind this car of the times. Cons... learning the gadgetry & new style levers and buttons, no sunroof, Rr window thats hard to see out, and a handful of small quarks that take some getting use to. After 13k miles we love our GREEN CAR.
NICKNAME of CAR...BLEWBYU
LIC. PLATE........56MPG
STICKER...........SCREWOPEC
CULLIGANMAN (toot toot ding ding)
I have never gotten a good answer on the 8 year warranty. What does it cover besides the battery pack?
Railroadjames said :
"and a handful of small quarks that take some getting use to. "
What quarks???
The IFs If the wait weren't so long? IF the Toyota dealers weren't so haughty; this really upsets me and a lot of other Toyota/Lexus oweners. IF there was a manual shift 6-speed version, IF there were power seats, If the car were truly Mid-sized? IF there were a sunroof or at least solar cells on the current roof? ... Of course if frogs had wings they could fly
YMMV,
MidCow
and by the way Panisonic/Toyota stand behind this power source with a lengthy history of extensive testing of their battery during the 90's. I've seen several test reports and they're impressive.
As to the shortage of cars, well, just understand
that when you've got a good thing (as Toyota does)
then you try to keep up with the (worldwide) de-
mand. This is no easy task all the while main-
taining their quality control.
Gas is currently @ $2.17 per gal in N.W. Indiana and my last fillup was $15.08 while my son's fillup was $67.40 last nite. He goes about 270 miles (at best) on a tank. I get 508 on a tank. Do the math.
Quirks are getting use to the low Rr window. Getting use to the silence in a parking lot (tends to scare people) Finally the Computer screen takes some care and finese. You'd have to have one to understand.
TEST DRIVE ONE AND ALL IS EXPLAINED!! CULLIGANMAN
I find the extended and obsessive-compulsive discussions - and that's what they are, clinically diagnostic proof of imbalances in the psyche - of whether or not a hybrid is cost-effective to be absurd. It's a sign of how odd our society is that we fail to question why someone would buy oversized vehicles or oversized wheels and tires - are they trying to make up for some sort of personal inadequacy? - and yet we lose our minds over someone investing in clean exhaust and high mileage.
By the way, I'm coming off a Honda Prelude. The current Civic feels remarkably close to the Prelude in many ways, which is a very, very good thing.
And why is it absurd ? Remember, hybrids pollute more during manufacture than similar ICE cars, so that effect has to be considered when evaluating emissions. If you claim the cost effectiveness of hybrids as a reason to buy them, of course you will be questioned. If you say you bought a hybrid just because you wanted to, nobody will question you.
It's a sign of how odd our society is that we fail to question why someone would buy oversized vehicles or oversized wheels and tires - are they trying to make up for some sort of personal inadequacy? - and yet we lose our minds over someone investing in clean exhaust and high mileage.
And where do you come up with that conclusion. Have you been to the "I hate SUVs" board. A whole lot more questioning going on there than here.
Is this factual, or an assumption? It would be interesting to find out the cost of Civic Hybrid versus Civic EX, in terms of pollution (not $$$).
Dennis posted a graph a while back that bears out the additional pollution created in the manufacturing process for the Prius vs similar sized non-hybrid sized cars. It gives the relative mileage before the Prius becomes less of a polluter. I will try to find that link and post it.
Here We Go
gagrice "Hybrid vs Diesel" Jul 23, 2004 8:31pm
Please send your daytime contact info and make/model to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, November 3, 2004.
Thanks!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
http://www.nyjournalnews.com/newsroom/102904/a0729peakoil.html
After the elections, no mater who wins or looses.
Just a hunch.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
Reasons:
I wanted a hybrid because the technology is cool and sensible (why waste energy in brakes when it can be recovered?). I bought the Accord because I wanted a FAST car as well with all the high end power stuff in there.
cal_cal
My wife drives it and traded in her 2002 VW Bug... turbo... running on premium... 23mpg. With a 80 mile round trip work commute, I calculated the gas savings to be about $1,400-$1,500 annually. Not bad.
We bought is because we fell in love with the car as a green vehicle. More importantly, however, this is an in your face to the oil companies and Detroit. We need to improve vehicle mileage in all categories so that we can lower our dependance upon foreign oil.
I intend to buy a Prius for myself in the ext 1-2 years also.
Love that car!
#2 The Environmental qualities
#3 I bought mine in West Tennessee for $22,800. Not a bad price
for a brand new car with everything but the navigation and bluetooth.
#4 Now that I am more concerned with my mileage, I drive 30 mph slower
on the highway. That will save me a ton of money in tickets and insur-
ance costs over time. It may also have saved my life by slowing it
down to a much safer speed.
Reason number 4 are intangibles that you don't see many people posting comments about. These are costs that can really add up for some drivers, like myself, or even be priceless for other drivers.
on the highway. That will save me a ton of money in tickets and insur-
ance costs over time. It may also have saved my life by slowing it "
Umm, that one applies to all vehicles. I would get about 35 MPG if I slowed from 80 to 50 on my 2003 CR-V (2.4L ICE only).
But with the prius, By slowing down to 55, I can get more than 3 times the mileage than my old vehicle. Everyone has different incentives and motivations.
I guess you have not found yours yet
I guess you have not found yours yet"
Mine is the periodic need for those 40 cubic feet of cargo space while hauling 5 people in the car.
I have achived just under 31 MPG at an average speed of 60 MPH in my 2003 CR-V; so I was figuring the 35 MPG off of that tank.
I have never had the patience to get out on the highway at 50 MPH (for an entire tank!) and see what it would do. It is bad enough here in the west that we have to go only 75 MPH - it is a long ways between towns in the desert.
2. To help do my part reducing our nations dependance on foreign oil.
I have achived just under 31 MPG at an average speed of 60 MPH in my 2003 CR-V; so I was figuring the 35 MPG off of that tank.
I have never had the patience to get out on the highway at 50 MPH (for an entire tank!) and see what it would do. It is bad enough here in the west that we have to go only 75 MPH - it is a long ways between towns in the desert.
Actually, I always drive at the speed limit or greater (55+) on the highway, also this forum is "What is your reason for buying a Hybrid?", not What is you reason for NOT buying a Hybrid.
I was responding to a posted reason for buying a hybrid, which would actually apply to all vehicles. I think it was on topic...
And then, of course, someone asked a question, and it is only common courtesy to answer when asked.
I think I have put forth this opinon before, but in my view the reason for buying a hybrid is higher MPG. I'm not convinced that it helps the environment much otherwise. Of course, higher MPG automatically helps the environment all by itself.
Then your answer is "hybrids, mass transit, nuclear power and bicycles" and the first and last are pretty insignificant.
People buy hybrids for the right reasons: (1) reduce oil dependence and (2) reduce polution, but hybrids, by themselves, will do very little to solve either of these problems.
cruise on,
MidCow
The more on the road, the better we ALL are - cleaner air, reduced fuel usage, more money to the car companies to make even better hybrids in the future, and most importantly - the more hybrids sold, the lower the car companies can set the price of the hybrids, because of the economy of scale.
It is very tiring to hear so many of of you holding Prius buyers to some bizarre standard, when your own decisions would certainly fail when held to that standard. You think your puchase of your new Tacoma withstands an economic analysis? I beg to differ.
People buy what they buy for whatever reason that they buy it. MANY factors are relevant, including image.
I talked to a new Prius owner this morning. Trust me, this guy is smart. He is engineering equipment that is saving lives as we speak. I asked about his new Prius and he gushed about it. I said, "well, it's not a good car to buy, simply based on economics" and he started to disagree with me. I said, "Well, some would say you could save as much gas and spend a lot less money if you simply bought a Corolla." He pondered for a couple of seconds and said, "Yes, that is true, but Prius is WAYY cooler than a Corolla"
sounds a lot like what a guy might say about his Camaro purchase...or his Tacoma purchase...etc.
This is a mistake that GM has admitted to making - to ONLY considering the economic aspect and not the emotional aspect of car buying when deciding a few years ago to stay out of the Hybrid market.
The problem for hybrid makers is that the volume of sales based on emotion are NOT going to occur in large enough quantities to make the hybrids permanently profitable, at today's hybrid component costs.
Driving 12000 miles a year, based on 3.00 per gallon, it cost about $2,000 per year for gas. The Prius at 50 MPG costs about $720. That's a saving of $1280. While it won't pay for itself in 5 or 6 years, it does cover the cost of the insurance and some of the oil changes.
And besides, it is practically emission free.
What about the 20K or so extra you had to spend to get the Prius over the GM. That buys a lot of gas, and may be a couple more used GMs if your old one craps out.
If you drive 12K / year, fuel cost is a small part of car ownership costs. Depreciation on a new car is a much bigger component.