VW Jetta TDI

jim314

Agreed that the higher density of diesel fuel means that a given volume size of onboard tank carries a larger weight of diesel fuel, but is this really a big benefit? My Volvo V70 gasoline 168hp 2.4L with 5-spd auto has a range of over 500 hwy miles with its 18 gal tank, and my wife's XC90 3.2L petrol 6A will go over 500 hwy mi on its 21 gal tank. Diesel versions of these vehicles available in Europe will go up to 1000 miles, or more under certain circumstances, between hwy fuel stops. That's neat, but not really a major benefit in North America.

I am strongly attracted to diesels, but have never been willing to pay the extra up-front costs. In 2001 or 2002 I almost bought a VW Jetta TDI diesel 5-spd man wgn, but at that time the cost premium over the base gasoline engine was maybe $1500, if I recall correctly. I thought that I didn't drive enough to recover the extra up-front cost of the diesel. Also I was put off by the fact that these diesels emitted fine particulates and NOx at levels much higher than the gasoline engines. I just held onto my 1991 Dodge Spirit 2.5L throttle body injector 5-spd manual 100 hp gasser until 2004 when I gave it away (still functioning perfectly after 16.5 years of ownership by me) to someone who needed value transportation. I got a 2004 V70 as a hand me down from my wife who wanted a new Volvo with dynamic stability and traction control which the 2004 base model lacked.

Mr_Shiftright

I would save $800 a year with a VW TDI diesel averaging 50 mpg (if it could do that), as opposed to my older Subaru Outback.

That's very good but not enough to compel me to switch out, at least not at this point. In the SF Bay Area, we pay considerably more for diesel fuel than 87 regular.

If I bought a new MINI, which requires premium fuel but gets 35 mpg, I save about $450 a year if I buy a TDI.

I'd say I'd need a price differential in fuel costs of about...$1200 to $1500 a year to tempt me.

jim314

And your Outback is a decent rough road vehicle. I almost bought an Outback in 2004, but couldn't decide which one. I have smacked the underside of my low cleareance V70 pretty good on some rough gravel roads. I wish it had a variable height suspension. I want stellar fuel economy on the hwy, but the ability to go on very rough roads.

On a round trip from Dallas to San Francisco I got 32 to 34 mpg on I-40 through New Mexico and Arizona in light traffic at up to 75 - 80 mph. The orig EPA was 22/30 mpg city/hwy. (No hypermiling but driving with the accelerator and avoiding braking.) My car will run on 87 octane but the manual says that 91 octane is optimal so that's what I use. I don't hesitate to use 89 or even 87, if that is all that's available, but I think nothing about the extra cost of premium. The cost of motor fuel is not a consideration to me. The only thing I care about is the impact of my activites on other people and on the environment.

elias

I agree that a big-picture/scientific/long-term approach can be useful and interesting to consider, especially if we have the worthwhile goal of reducing oil imports instead of the scam/red-herring/snipe-hunt goal of reducing CO2 output.

So I think your analyses & points seem possibly related to this question which I think should be of great interest for USA national security, and which President Obama may have Willie Nelson researching right now:

Q: what is the optimal distribution/% of diesel vs gas engines in the US passenger fleet, in terms of minimizing oil imports without causing diesel shortages.
A: Isn't it "obvious" that we'd do better with at least a few % more diesel cars relative to gassers, thus reducing oil imports, and without causing a diesel shortage/price-runup?

cosmo

I could not agree with you more. In addition to our '04 and '06 TDI's, we have a '97 Audi cab V6 (our frivolous fair weather car). While the Audi will get up and move when downshifted and the engine revs up, I miss the torque of the TDI's when passing on a two lane highway or climbing a steep hill. Fuel economy is really just a side benefit of a turbodiesel. Drivability is the greatest asset.

ndmike88

With the number of miles you put on a year I'm not sure if VW has ANY extended plan that would suit your needs. For the record I bought an 84/60 with a $100 deductible for $1,000. Remember those plans are mostly profit for the dealer, so you have lots of room to try and get it deeply discounted.

jogousa

Yes, there is a difference. Diesel fuels have different cetane (CN) numbers in different parts of the country, depending on refinery, where they come from (similar to different gasoline that has different octane numbers). Cetane number or CN is a measurement of the combustion quality of diesel fuel during compression ignition.
You can contact any of the "big boys" public relation or consumer help desk and ask them what cetane number is offered in your neck of the wood. Generally speaking, minimum 50 is required - but there are higher CN numbers that are sold by Shell and Murphy USA (60 to 70) in various locations. The higher the better - and you will feel the difference with a higher cetane number!

jogousa

You should try to get the car for not more than $ 150 to $ 200 over the invoice (see Edmund's charts). I got mine for $ 150 over the invoice (2009 Jetta Tdi SportWagon manual transmission). Every dealer has 3 profit centers: salesperson, sales manager and finance dept. Salesman is just a P.R., sales manager approves the deal and the finance/ ins. dept. that will try to sell you stuff that you don't need, such as extra warranty, rust proofing, etc. You should always remember that the used car lot is the backbone of any car dealership - that is where most profit is made followed by service dept. Dealers generally do not make money on new cars (unless they are high volume dealers in which case they make some extra money through various incentive programs). Do not let your emotions run your price negotiation! Do your homework. The best is to locate a car that you want on dealer's internet website (what they have in stock) then get the exact options that are on the car (including VIN number that you can decode). Check Edmund's pricing and voila - you are ready to go!

Mr_Shiftright

I was figuring about $26,000 out the door for a fairly basic sport wagon. Does that sound about right to you?

jim314

Error correction: I kept my 1991 Spirit until 2007 after 16.5 years of ownership.

I have always wanted a Jetta or Passat TDI wagon, but I probably never will get one.

jogousa

Well, it depends how "basic" it is. With automatic transmission, moonroof and 17" wheels, Gorilla trunk liner and rubber floor mats - that is about right - $ 26,000 out of the door. Don't get lured into any extended warranty and such at F&I dept. though. Welcome to the club!

hummie

Am considering purchasing a 2009 Jetta Sportswagen TDI. Really liked the way in performed in our test drive. Am uncertain about the reliability of the 'clean' diesel engine down the road. Are owners having problems with this engine?

jogousa

This diesel engine has been around for many years in various configurations in Europe. In order to meet all US EPA requirements this engine is equipped with DPF - Diesel Particulate Filter. It is a device designed to remove diesel particulate matter (DPM) or soot, from the exhaust of diesel engines. Diesel particulate filters can remove roughly 85% of the soot found in diesel emissions and can at times, depending on the filter and other equipment it is paired with, like in 2009 Jetta Tdi, it can attain 100% soot removal efficiencies.
Diesel-powered vehicles which are equipped with a DPF emit no visible emissions from the exhaust pipe and far less harmful not only to the environment, but to the general health of those in the vicinity of the running vehicle. I do not see any problems in the future with this type of engine.

ruking1

This engine was also designed with an industrial application in mind, diesel generator. @ 80% loading it has a 25,000 hour design specification life. So since the average is 40-50 mph (at far less than 80% loading) that comes out to 1,000,000 to 1,250,000 miles.

shrifty

So far I have over 20,000 miles on my TDI (Sedan), and the only issue I had was with the fuel pump relay not seated properly at around 70 miles. Since then the car has been running well. I don't think I have enough miles on to really determine how reliable the engine is, but no issues so far with the engine.

There have been a few complaints logged for the 09 Jetta TDI regarding the DSG at the site below.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/

jogousa

Yes DSG - therefore, as I have mentioned elsewhere, it's better to get this vehicle with 6 speed manual because DSG is a new technology at it has its bugs. Like anything else, one should wait into second or third production year with a new model.
Here is the link mentioned with details.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/complaints/results.cfm

If the above link does not work (somehow, when copied on Mac, it may not display results properly) go to .gov general site, input 09 VW Jetta and let the site display all complaints related to the DSG (automatic clutchless shifter).

tdifun

I searched the web site but I could not find the DSG complaints. My new 09 DSG jetta seems to have a lag from the start. But once it gets going it shifts fine. Is this simular to these other issues people are seeing? Some folks said the trans just needs to be driven more and it will learn my driving style? At times it seems unsafe because when you step on the pedal it takes a second for the car to move. You have to think ahead when pulling out in traffic.

thanks.

longo2

shrifty, I have just browsed through the consumers complaints section link you posted (thanks) on Jetta TDI's with a/t and manual trnsmissions and found that there are serious bugs in both powertains..

I have test driven a few 06's and noticed that shuddering 'delay' in starting from a slow roll or easing into an intersection.

Seems it all has to do with a 'dual mass flywheel' design flaw, (Under recall in Europe) and not the engine.

That site gives VW of America a very poor mark on dealing with this self destructing transmission issue under warranty....telling owners..

"It's a wear item" to "you don't know how to drive a standard" or a combination of both.

When do you think it will be safe to buy a 'de-bugged' one?

ruking1

If mine is like yours, and you are describing the same circumstances, then yes it is perfectly normal. I am also not sure of the term, but the computers do learn your driving style. This is purely my 02 cents, but I would opt for the more aggressive style.

The lag is NOT uncommon. I have much more of a lag on a 04 Civic automatic 4 speed. At cruising speeds, it seemed to hunt for the correct gear and then downshift, etc. I used to override it by pushing harder on the accelerator. However that cause an instant drop in mpg and so I just let it do its thing.

jogousa

Go to that website, click on "vehicle" (it's pre-selected)
select year - 2009
select make - VW
select model - Jetta
select radio button on left: "select this check box"
click "retrieve complaints"
here is one of them: (and there are several)
TL-THE CONTACT OWNS A 2009 VOLKSWAGEN JETTA. HE STATES THAT DSG DUEL CLUTH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION THAT THE TEMP SENSOR GOES BAD IT SENDS FALSE READING=S TO THE ELCTRONIC MODULE AND CAUSES THE TRANMISSION TO LOCK UP. GOING AT 70MPH ON THE HIGHWAY THE VEHICLE SHIFTED TO NEUTREL. THE VEHICLE STAYED IN NEUTRL UNTIL IT HIT 45 MPH WHEN GOT OFF THE HIGHWAY AND AT A STOP SIGN ON A OFF RAMP AND TRYING TO PASS THE TRANSMISSION CONTINUED TO LOCK UP AND ALMOST CAUSED AN ACCIDENT. THE VEHICLE WAS THEN TURNED OFF AND THEN TOWED TO AN DEALER AND THEY TOOK A LOOK AT THE VEHICLE AND THEY ARE INVESTIGATING THE PROBLEM WITH THIS VEHICLE. ALSO VOLKSWAGEN DIDNT TAKE THIS SITUATION SERIOULSY. THE FAILURE AND CURRENT MILEAGE WAS 868.

ruking1

With VW's, it seems to a game of "what MY bullets" do you dodge. The 06's have the higher incidence rate of the PD's camhafts premature wear. Also parts of the DSG (since corrected in the 09 DSG) seem to wear prematurely. 03 Jetta TDI was reputed to be one of the best IF not the best MY's. But woe unto you if you had the 01M automatic transmission !! ??

Not that this does not happen with other oems. To use an example (I am familar with and have run across), the 2006-up (new gen) Honda Civic. It has HUGE problems with the rear end. It was supposed to be a HUGE upgrade to the rear end performance!!?? In a gallows humor sort of way; AND how it WAS !!! The tires wear prematurely and it also can wear un evenly. The brake pads and rotors both front and rear have had serious issues across generation lines and not surprisingly for a number of years. So now the rear brakes wear unevenly. The suspension system needs replacing. The car tracks like a dog with broken hips. For some owners, it has been an absolute and complete nightmare.

Needless to say, Honda Civic enjoys almost complete adulation, and almost stellar resale value. !! ??

Having said that, running a 04 Civic (87,000 miles) and an 03 Jetta TDI (119,000 miles) at like miles; the Civic is going through wear able parts at roughly 2x faster than the Jetta TDI.

I also know that the Honda's automatics are problematic. If they are going to fail, that has statistically been true @ the 200,000 to 250,000 miles markers.

On the other hand, I knew what I was signing up for BEFORE I bought the Civic (eyes wide shut, love me? love mah dawg. so to speak) I am happy with its performance so far.I am also happy with the 03 Jetta TDI :confuse:

tdifun

Thanks so much for your help! So far my wife loves the car. Have not even gone though the 1st tank of gas yet. Hoping the DSG lasts.........for many years to come...

Mr_Shiftright

This is one thing holding me back from a TDI---I'm not worried about the engine at all---I'm worried that it's in a Jetta. :P

As charming as the Jetta is, you have to admit, that in the past at least, it has been a bad boy.

Of course, as with the MINI, the further the model develops, the better it gets. So maybe we're out of the woods...I'm going to follow owner's comments on 2009s very closely.

I'd hate to make a $26,000 mistake.

ruking1

To me, there is no question VW brought that on itself. In some respects, I bought the car/s in spite of VW !!?? Comparing a gen IV to the 09 gen V and it is almost literally a night and day difference. There are a lot of things I like. Some things... the verdict is still out.

A tad afield , (op/ed)

VW I think has decreased costs and increased build quality and hopefully enhanced durability and as a by product reliability with the the 09 gen V. The real trench work is repairing the reputation.

Path_Tech

So far, 5700 miles on it (DSG) and no issues whatsoever. /knocking on wood.

shrifty

After reading a few more complaints listed I agree that the issues are with DSG and not the engine. I was not aware of these issues prior to purchasing (should have done more research I suppose). I hope I am not one of the unlucky ones that have this problem.

I would speculate 2 - 3 years would be enough to have any bugs worked out, but only time will tell.

jogousa

Before I purchased 6 sped manual (2009 VW Jetta Tdi) I have tested them both but I decided to go for a manual - you get more out of the engine output and a better mileage, if you shift right - and it's more "fun to drive"....
I still have an issue with moon-roof. Even with sun shade retracted it generates so much heat inside the vehicle in summer, when you have like 12 hours of sunshine and the car is not parked in the shade. Like I've mentioned before, I have a cardboard covered with aluminum cookin foil inbetween moon-roof and sun shade and what a difference it is!
Another issue is the soft suspension - with trailer hitch installed, I always hit the bottom of the hitch on any speed bump in a parking lot. Can't wait to have some stiff shocks installed, once they become available, or, for that matter, can't wait for Subaru Forester to bring diesels to these shores (2nd year running already in Europe).

shrifty

I was hoping for a Honda Accord diesel myself, but it doesn't seem that anyone aside from the Germans are willing to bring diesels into the USA. I don't have a sun/moon roof on mine, I wanted to get the most basic model I could with an automatic. I'm not quite fond of shifting in rush hour traffic.

shrifty

Would anyone happen to know if this applies to the TDI? I am going in for my 20,000 service this weekend and will ask when I am there. I see that it mentions a 2.0L TFSI engine with DSG, but I am clueless as to what a TFSI engine is.

Recalls Summary
Vehicle Make / Model: Model Year(s):
VOLKSWAGEN / JETTA 2006-2009

NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID Number: 09V164000
Summary:
VOLKSWAGEN IS RECALLING 25,594 MY 2006-2009 JETTA 5TH GENERATION EQUIPPED WITH 2.01 ENGINE. THE FASTENING SCREW CONTACT SURFACES ON THE DRIVESHAFT COVER PLATE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN MANUFACTURED TO FACTORY SPECIFICATIONS. SOME SCREWS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN TORQUED PROPERLY DURING ASSEMBLY AND COULD LOOSEN OVER TIME, CAUSING A KNOCKING SOUND WHEN THE VEHICLE IS IN MOTION. THE DRIVESHAFT SCREWS COULD LOOSEN TO THE POINT WHERE THE DRIVESHAFT DETACHES FROM THE GEARBOX.
Consequence:
IF THE VEHICLE IS MOVING WHEN THIS HAPPENS, THE DETACHED DRIVESHAFT COULD CAUSE DAMAGE THE GEARBOX HOUSING. A DAMAGE GEARBOX HOUSING COULD LEAK GEARBOX OIL ONTO THE STREET AND CREATE A RISK OF A VEHICLE CRASH FOR BOTH THE DRIVER AND OTHER MOTORISTS.
Remedy:
DEALERS WILL INSPECT THE DRIVESHAFT SCREWS AND REPLACE THE SCREWS FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN ON OR BEFORE JUNE 19, 2009. OWNERS MAY CONTACT VOLKSWAGEN AT 1-800-822-8987.
Notes:
VOLKSWAGEN RECALL NO. 40J2/S4. OWNERS MAY ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S VEHICLE SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), OR GO TO HTTP://WWW.SAFERCAR.GOV .

In addition, the affected VIN #s are: 3VW_ _ _ 1K _ 6M _ 618033 to 3VW _ _ _ 1K _ 9M _ 304337

jogousa

Correct me if I am wrong, but the 09 Tdi diesel is 1,9 liter engine (not 2,01)....which means it may cover the gasser....

shrifty

The 09 TDI has a 2.0L engine, previous years were 1.9.

In the recall notice it also mentioned TFSI, but I have no idea what that means.

jogousa

09 Tdi has the following engine (that is what I have):

• Turbo compressor
• 1,968 cc 2.0 liters in-line 4 front engine with 81.0 mm bore, 95.5 mm stroke, 16.5 compression ratio, overhead cam and four valves per cylinder
• Diesel fuel
• Diesel common rail fuel system
• 14.5 gallon main diesel fuel tank 12.1
• Power: 104 kW , 140 HP SAE @ 4,000 rpm; 236 ft lb , 320 Nm @ 1,750 rpm

shrifty

The recall mentioned an engine with 147 kW, so I would then assume that they are not referring to the TDI, so it appears that we are ok.

ruking1

Another designation is CBEA.

m6user

I have a nephew that is a repair tech for a VW dealership. He was actually recruited by the dealership and moved from a different state to the VW dealership he now works at. I asked him after he had been there about a year if I should buy a new 08 Jetta or the Mazda6 I was looking at. He said I should buy the Mazda if repairs and breakdown are a concern. He also mentioned that most repairs on a VW are about double most Japanese cars.

I was really hoping that he would have said the VW because I really liked the solidness and handling but I bought the Mazda6 instead. In two years and 33,000 have not had one trip to the dealer other than routine maint. Absolutely nothing had to be fixed or adjusted which to me is pretty amazing.

I am still looking at the 09 TDI as I have another vehicle that needs replacing in the near future. I'll talk to him soon now that he has three years on the job and find out if his opinion has changed.

jogousa

I had a Mazda, before Subaru. It's a fine car but the quality is dropping (from what I hear). As far as I know (and I can attest to that being previously owner of one or more of the following) I would rate the quality and design of Japanese cars as follows:
1. Honda (and their derivates such as Acura)
2. Toyota (and their derivates such as Lexus)(my son works for Toyota HQ in Torrance, Calif.)
3. Subaru
4. Nissan (and their derivates such as Infinity)(formerly Datsun - changed name because of chronic rusting problems)
5. Mitsubishi
6. Mazda
7. Suzuki
8. Isuzu (no more)

From all of the above I like Subaru the most.
My first car was a French Simca Aronde, I went through several Citroens (loved those), Renaults, Peugeots, etc. The worst: Land Rover Discovery although I was one of the first owners of Land Rover in the U.S. - that car Land Rover - was impossible to sell (in Calif), Oh well...

longo2

"VW I think has decreased costs and increased build quality"

I too have read that VW claims that the Jettas have been too costly to produce and have figured out a way to build them faster and cheaper.

Somehow this disturbs me. Faster and cheaper is what got the Big 3 into the worst decade of Crapper Cars we have ever seen.

From reading all the Consumer Reports on the problomatic DSG and indeed the dual clutch system failures in the manual transmissions, makes me wonder how building them faster and cheaper will make them any better.

I think I will wait for the new Jettas coming out this fall to see how this all works out.

I like the look of the new front end, standard Bluetooth, more sound deadening, nicer steering wheel controls and better interior materials.

And car gossip has it that a real overhaul from the frame up is in store for 2011 Jettas.

ruking1

Constant improvement is definitely a "process".

With one 03 VW @ 119,000 miles and 6 years old I will let you know in 5/6 years how the 2009 VW fairs. Hopefully the 03 will be 11/12 years old.

Mr_Shiftright

If I do buy the Jetta TDI at some point, I'm going to do so with full knowledge that it'll probably be on a tow truck a couple of times during its warranty period. I think that between my own knowledge of mechanics and my determination to get the dealer to perform first time every time, I might be okay. A lot of problems associated with the Jetta are due to owner's experience and dealers' laziness. So I can tighten THAT part up. But I can't of course, anticipate how VW screwed the car together in the first place.

Last new car I had was a Scion wagon, and that thing never even burped. A friend owns it now, at about 60,000, and it's never been in for a warranty claim--it doesn't even rattle and we got 40,000 out of the cheesy tires.

So yeah, I'm kinda spoiled, but I'll suck it up for TDI benefits. The only deterrent would be if MINI came out with a turbo diesel Clubman wagon. That's a formidable competitor to the TDI Sportwagon.

jogousa

I must have missed something - don't see (on this website and other blogs) that many Tdi owners being towed due to mechanical breakdowns.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm viewing the car as a Jetta with a diesel engine, not as a separate car--so I'm looking at all Jetta stats, not just TDI stats.

But you are right in that a TDI doesn't have an ignition system per se nor is it subject to the sludge issues of the other engines, so that may account for better reliability right there.

Nonetheless, there are certainly TDI complaints to be found on the Internet, (as with any car you can name) and some of them are not pretty. Mostly electrical it seems like, dealer complaints, and complaints of high maintenance, --seem to dominate the list.

You know, the normal ups and downs of man vs. machine.

jogousa

I second that ... Jetta's electrical problems (in the past) were quite common.
I know quite a few people that were frustrated with non-essential (non-tow truck though) electrical problems with various accessories such as windows, etc.

ruking1

..."I'm viewing the car as a Jetta with a diesel engine, not as a separate car--so I'm looking at all Jetta stats, not just TDI stats.

But you are right in that a TDI doesn't have an ignition system per se nor is it subject to the sludge issues of the other engines, so that may account for better reliability right there. "...

Right now the "advantage/disadvantage" is the 09 VW TDI does not have much history. The real places you have to look are the ww markets and probably more true, the European markets. There will be HUGE translation issues and I do not mean language.

I performed the research late 2002 early 2003 for the 2003 Jetta TDI and concluded that most issues were for lack of a better word ,"gasser related".

This is where the "constant" improvement process paid some dividends for VW and in effect were indicators that in effect let me feel more comfortable taking a "leap".

So for example tires, brake pads, rotors, shocks/struts were still questions/issues. Hind sight and experience leaves me more than happy. "Crappy" tires lasted 112,300 miles. Brake rotors/pads @ 119,000 miles appear to be at slighty more than "half". Shocks and struts and applicable hardware will probably be changed @ the 200,000 to 250,000 mark. I did not need an alignment at 112,300 miles even as I got one @ 100,000 miles as I was intensely curious as to how it fared and was offered a special. It gets absolutely THE best mileage and I can get whatever mileage at will. (44 to 62 mpg) I normally drive to yield 48-52 mpg. Of late I have been doing "Italian" and with the A/C blasting to boot, so yield has been LOW (48 mpg). I did do the recommended TB/WP change @ 100,000, even as very close inspection indicated a min of 20,000 more would be just fine. I am swagging 400,000 500,000 miles from the "crappy" dual mass clutch. If not, $725. will buy a V6 Sachs clutch (single mass) upgrade.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but you are a database of 1. Internet information for the average consumer does not paint such a hopeful future for VW buyers. It's not GRIM by any means, but it's definitely "iffy".

If the reliability ratings are "average" and you got a great car, then maybe I'll get a turkey, so we'll achieve "average" that way?

But I think I'm willing to roll the dice.

ruking1

Well I did say that right up front!!?? Ultimately the only one one cares about is...??
Also I looked at the ODDS of me getting a "GREAT" car and truthfully getting one would have greatly defied the odds. I think as a result, I got a statistically "average" car. I can of course, NOT prove either scenario.

This might be off topic, but a very high percentage of MY 2006 Civic's (since I got a 2004 MY) have had HUGE and horrible rear end issues. I understand the corrective actions in a high percentage of cases have not corrected the "corrections" !!?? Honda Civic's have not suffered from bad "reliability ratings" :surprise:

Mr_Shiftright

Ratings are very important these days to a car's image and its success.

ruking1

Are you leaning towards the 6 spd manual or 6 spd DSG?

Mr_Shiftright

6 speed I think. I have yet to drive a new one, so we'll see. I'm not at all opposed to automatics with diesel engines--in fact, in some ways I think even the DSG arrangement would enhance the driving characteristics of a diesel. But I like the lower MSRP of the 6 speed and also being able to push start the car and/or tow it, etc. Simpler the better, in other words. I was also thinking of waiting for a lease deal from VW, if it ever happens.

sebring95

Well if you look at the best reliability ratings compared to the worst...it's not all that bad. A couple problems over a few years....the Jetta is such a nicer car than most anything that can compete from a fuel mileage stand point. Of course a lot has to do with buying the appropriate vehicle. I wouldn't buy the diesel if you only drive low mileage trips or around town. A hybrid (or small gasser) would be a better choice. Out on the road though, it's just hard to compete with a diesel. I looked very close at getting back into a TDI a few weeks back. A dealer in Philadelphia is selling them for $1,200 under invoice....but the economics of running a second vehicle just still don't make sense at this point. I'm only driving at max, 20k per year and still need a good 4x4 truck on many days. It just makes financial sense to run the truck 100% of the time even with the deep discounts and tax credit. Maybe when my truck gets older and isn't depreciating as much and I don't want to drive it as often, it will make more sense. '09 TDI is an awesome care though and the six-speed manual is the way I would go. The DSG just kind of bugged me.

m6user

"Crappy" tires lasted 112,300 miles. Brake rotors/pads 119,000 miles appear to be at slighty more than "half".

In over 50 years of driving and over 35 vehicles I've never had a set of tires or brakes last anywhere near as long and I think I've had some pretty good tires at times. Maybe the experience you have with your vehicle is due in large part to the way you drive and maintain your vehicle. If I had to describe my driving habits/maint habits it would be average. To go over 100k on a set of tires and brakes you must drive very, very gently and in a straight line most of the time.