VW Jetta TDI

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Comments

  • natureboy2natureboy2 Member Posts: 7
    Has anybody been able to find a dealer in the MI or Chicago area that is willing to sell a Jetta TDI Loyal Edition w/ a few options at near TMV value? I have yet to find one. They are not even budging on the 2010 models coming end of August. They are willing to take your money to hold, but no promisse on the final car price. This is insane.... are these SO HOT that every deal can just be all Omnipotent ?. If that is the case, then it's not something I want - no smart buyer should bow down to being ripped off and making these greedy dealers more money. Any good leads and advice is greatly appreciated. Willing to travel a bit to find the deal - even will go to same sales person and recommend you as well.
    Thanks a mil.
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I'm not sure what TMV you're looking for, but there ARE dealers that are bargaining. One around Philly is currently selling for $700 under invoice for July....so that would be a TDI DSG with no other options for around $22,500.

    Inventory is dropping fast on the 2009 and there's still awhile before 2010's show up so VW has pulled back on incentives at their big dealers (the small dealers don't get much if anything regardless. May was the best month to buy a TDI. They had dealer incentive of $1,500 in May, then they dropped to to $1,000 in June, and now it's $500. No idea what August will bring. It might go back up after the 2010's arrive...but there most likely won't be much of anything to pick from. From what I've seen/heard the manual transmissions are getting really hard to find. Pricing isn't out yet on the 2010 models....so it would be hard to deal on a precise number but I would think they would agree to $XX discount. The dealer in Philly is taking orders at $200 under invoice....whatever that works out to be.

    I was very close to buying from this dealer in Philly back in June but I couldn't get one exactly the way I wanted....and I'm picky. Now if someone could use the cash4clunkers program, plus the $1,300 tax credit, plus buy at under invoice....that would be a terrific deal.
  • rremer1rremer1 Member Posts: 7
    Natureboy2, would love to know which Philly dealer you're talking about. I am in Philly and have been looking for a TDI DSG wagon, but haven't found any in stock. Also, if I wait till 2010 models come out, is it best to just wait -- or to put $ money down? Thanks!
  • sebring95sebring95 Member Posts: 3,241
    I assume you were directing that to me. It's VW of Langhorne and the salesman's name is Chris. He has advertised these deals on a TDI specific webpage and I know a couple of the folks that have bought from him. I dealt with him searching for a TDI in June and can't say anything bad about him except he's VERY busy. I recall getting emails from him at 2am.

    From what I've seen on the other site, he is also out of wagons and says he needs about 100 days to place the order. I'm betting he is getting plenty of allocation on these considering the number of TDI's they move. I do not believe they've been offering nearly as good of a deal on the JSW's though....probably because demand has been so strong on them. Sedans had the factory incentives but not the wagons. The last deal I seen him advertise on a 2009 JSW was $600 over invoice. Not sure what he's doing on 2010 orders.

    I'm not sure what I would do if I was shopping a TDI wagon. They seem to go pretty quick and you'll not likely get that great of a deal. If you're specific about what you want, I'd say pay the deposit and wait on it just to make sure.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This seems like 1979 all over again. I wanted a diesel Dasher Wagon in 1979. The wait was a year. I needed a car for my 150 mile daily round trip. So I bought an Accord hatch. What a POC that was. People talk about how bad VW's are and how great Honda's are. I don't believe the Dasher diesel could be any worse than that Accord.

    A friend put a deposit on a diesel Dasher and when the year was up he did not need the car. The dealer gave him $500 for his interest in the car. They were bringing big premiums around 1980.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    This is probably old news, but VW might have locked down the admission gates too tightly on the 2009 JSW model. I have read that fully 80% of the JSW production is turning out to be diesel. In hind sight, it is fairly obvious they could have almost doubled the production to start. Or, if they wanted to set even stricter limits to sell closer to 100% diesel.

    Again they are on track to overall sell 30% diesel with the initial 2009 target of 25%. As I have not read what the initial target was for the JSW other than they would produce far less of them, I am assuming 25% diesel was also the initial target.

    I am sure that EVERY car maker would like to have problems of this nature. I think it is especially true inview of the almost D..... like economy.
  • gfr1gfr1 Member Posts: 55
    I had a 1979 Dasher Hatchback Diesel when I lived in Riverside CA in the days of the long gas lines. One of the most satisfying cars I ever owned. Not best, or exhillerating, but satisfying. I had a replacement 29 gal. aluminum fuel tank built to replace the original. My career was flying jets ( civil & Mil.), so range is my thing. It would cover 1200 miles, routinely, on trips, with reserves. Never had maintenance, actually, other than tires and oil/filter change twice a year. Also, I never waited on a fuel pump when refills were needed every four to six weeks, or so. I sold it at 105,000 miles. GR
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The biggest issue with early VW diesels was that they were very crude and noisy. As long as you didn't try to drive them at high rpm for long distances, they held together pretty well. The modern VW diesel is light years ahead for those old blocks.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    So if I did my math correctly, you got app 41 mpg.? (1,200 miles/29 gal=)

    As a comparo I ran a 1970 VW Beetle (leaded regular) and got 32/34 mpg on the highway. 80 mph was like right on the edge and 85 mph you were fighting. I once read a book going from the San Francisco Bay Area to Riverside, CA @ 70 mph. (don't try this @ home folks)

    Looking back on it it seems every time I turned around I was doing an oil change 1,500 to 3,000 per OCI? The oil change was no big deal, it was those 6/8 nuts I for some reason was compelled to R/R each time holding the oil screen in place that were a pain.

    In some ways we have come a very very LONG way and in others, app running in place.

    Fast forward to 2009, 2003 Jetta TDI. If I had to stick one mpg number, 50 mpg. Range on a 14.5 gal tank is 700 miles (.5 gal gives you 25 miles to look for a truck stop). Oil changes are at 25,000 miles and the evacuation unit takes all of 5/7 mins to evacuate the oil and manually pour the new back in. It takes me 10 mins more to clean up the mess and try to remember for next year what I could have done better this year, but I promptly forget about it for next year until the cycle repeats itself....@ 120,000 miles, it feels nicely broken in.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Has anyone here from the US personally had any experience with the Carefree Maintenance service being performed in Canada? My next service might be due when I am up there for a week, and I would rather have the service done as close to the interval as possible instead of waiting until I returned home. I saw in one of the manuals that it can be done, but not too clear on the details. Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

    Also, are there any issues/concerns in finding diesel in Canada?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am not sure about the care free maintenance being performed in a foreign country. I would wait. It is truly no big deal. However, you could call a close VW dealer in the (CN) area you will be and see what they say.

    There are absolutely no issues/concerns in finding diesel in CN. It is as you are well aware, sold by the liter and is much more than the US prices (per gal converted)

    I hope you have a great trip !!
  • retrnofthejetaretrnofthejeta Member Posts: 2
    I bought my Jetta TDI thinking I would save money on gas, I own a 2006 Altima that gets almost 30 miles to the gallon. It is comfortable and spacious. I absolutely love the engine and handling of the Jetta. What I did not realize was that the "leather" seats were plastic and that the dummy foot pedal on the left side took up half the floor. When I tried to move the seat back to adjust for the foot pedal, the steering column was then too short to reach my hands. In addition, unlike Japanese cars, the steering column protrudes under the dash against my legs. Not to mention that the seat cushion is harder than rocks, with sides that dig into my hips. By the way (I am a size 10 5'8"). The car does have an amazing engine, is extremely agile but if I ride in it more than 20 minutes it is a torture chamber. What were the engineers' thinking? I don't think comfort, aesthetics, or roominess, was part of their design vision. More importantly, what was I thinking when I was trying to be green?
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    The CDN Jettas' are being sold with a "Carefree Maintence" deal, i.e. oil and filter changes for the 3 year warranty period.

    Not sure if the U.S. Jetta's have the same deal, but if they didn't promote it when you bought your U.S. vehicle, it's unlikely your Jetta would get a free oil change in Canada.

    On your other concern, ULSD is on tap everywhere in Canada, the truck stops have gone over to it totally, and I don't know of any regular 'self serve' in Alberta that has anything but ULSD.

    Calculating in your dollar exchange, you would be getting ULSD for $2.69 a U.S. gallon right now.
    Regular unleaded gas would cost you $3.16.

    Where I live, VW TDI's are everywhere. (except on the VW dealers lots, they are pretty much sold out with no more 09's on the way)
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Thanks, I'm sure the trip will be excellent! I've got about 3 - 4 weeks before I go, I'm not too fond of letting the service interval extend too far (paranoia on my part I'm sure). I see two dealerships in Manitoba to choose from, Auto Haus and St. James.

    From my previous trips to our Northern neighbor I've seen that fuel is quite expensive compared to here, I'll try to fill up in the US, a tankfull should last the entire time until I return. When coming back here I can help but appreciate how "low" our fuel prices are.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The ergonomics, while a science, still is intensely personal. It is really a shame you were not able to stay in the vehicle the length of time needed to flesh out issues. While VW has both the angle tilt and telescoping (? I think that is what they call it) steering wheel, right now, adjustable foot pedals would provide almost a custom fit.

    In the same .02 cent vein, I have come to dislike leather for any number of reasons. So I am glad the VW Jetta TDI comes with the perforated vinyl. (or what ever it is or what they call it)

    As for saving on fuel costs, even at 48-52, 39-45 mpg (03 Jetta/09 Jetta TDI's) If I started with the 06 Altima, I would have still kept it @ 30 mpg. Indeed we still have a 04 Civic that puts up 38-42 mpg. The other two drivers do NOT miss an opportunity to drive the 09 TDI however !!!
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    Dear Miserable, if you are 5' 8" and your "arms won't reach the steering wheel", undo the little latch under the steering column and pull the wheel back out until it does.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    In the US, it is 36K/3 years for the "carefree maintenance" deal, and the book vaguely mentions that the service may/may not be free in Canada. It also mentions that if you have to pay for the service, that you somehow could submit the paperwork to a US dealership for reimbursement, but not too clear on the details.

    As for the fuel price, I think right now here in western PA I'm paying around $2.59, so not much difference in fuel prices. RUG would be much more expensive by comparison.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Not to be mean but why didn't you take the car on a long enough test drive to figure out the ergonomics don't work for you? If the dealer wouldn't let you take a car overnight then go to another dealer that will. I always offer overnight test drives to people. If the dealer wouldn't let you take a TDI overnight because they don't' have many ask to take a regular Jetta just to see how the cabin works for your body.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Where I would normally buy D2 in CN, VAN BC, it is 93.9 per liter. so that is 3.55 CAD which converts to 3.256 USD. D2 is 2.75 USD in CALI............ that .51 cents per gal more, to you and me!! ;)

    1 CAD=.917212 USD:

    1 USD=1.09026 CAD:

    3.78541 liters per gal (128 oz)
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    Currently cheapest I could find in Winnipeg is around 87.9, a bit cheaper than BC.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think ergonomics are really the Germans' strong suit these days. They more or less order you to like what they do. Ever try to see out the back of a BMW 330i? Good luck.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    As small vehicles go, I found the VW Tiguan very comfortable. Easy to get in and out of. The Jetta is bit too low for me. Though it was comfortable after getting in. I am still not convinced on the faux leather. I would just as soon have high quality cloth. Mercedes has MB Tex plastic seats. I don't now, it may wear well.

    Visibility with the Tiguan was good. Most cars sold today have horrible rear visibility. I really did not test drive the Jetta Sportwagen to get a feel for the visibility.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Not too long ago I spent a fair amount of time in the back seats of the 2009 BMW 335D's. I think I could do a 1,000 mile trip in it. But I would agree that some aspects of German cars are an acquired taste.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes but a rear seat occupant isn't really interacting with the car, except with his butt :P Any tall person will crack their head a couple dozen times a year in a 3 Series BMW, trying to get into it, and peering backwards over those 3 rear seat headrests is nearly impossible. It's no wonder you have a backup alarm. :surprise:

    Americans, too, had a hard time applying the science of ergonomics---subtle things like "switch weight" eluded them, giving fairly expensive American cars a cheap feeling in the switchgear.

    It's odd--Japanese cars have a logic to their ergonomics, but not so much to their design. The Germans seem the opposite. I mean, who can make sense out of the interior of a MINI?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I am not sure why it has taken so long, but ergonomics have only recently come to the fore. My wife and daughter work in companies that actually have an "ergonomics" person on staff (or contract) !!?? If there are other companies that do, it would be interesting to hear a shout out !!??

    So basically when you buy American, German, Japanese you are in effect "surfing" for that statistical "comfort" zone of all three's "interior" design efforts. :shades:

    This makes it all the more logical from a population point of view, why folks use mini vans and SUV's as comfort standards. Anything less can be "torture chambers" for a SD (standard deviation) of car buyers/owners.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Probably an impossible goal--that quest for perfection. I like how German cars drive, I like the styling of Italian cars, I like the ergonomics of Japanese cars, and I like the legroom and visibility in American cars. What I need is an American made AWD station wagon engineered by Germans, with a Japanese dashboard, exterior design by Italians and a Volvo station wagon back window :P

    Or maybe a TDI sport wagon with some of my own "improvements"?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Since we are on a VW thread (TDI), it might be all the more baffling why adjustable foot pedals have not made to the market place. It would be a no brainer argument that while "A" driver might not like EXACTLY the ergonomics of say a VW TDI, the inclusion of

    1. tilt and telescope steering wheel

    2. adjustable mirrors, seats, etc.,

    3. adjustable foot pedals (controls)

    will make it comfortable enough to drive, albeit more buy able. So in effect, it removes a conscious or unconscious objection.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I have sold several pre-owned Grand Cherokees, as switch cars from pricier euro SUVs, purely because of the adjustable pedals. Guy or gal comes in looking at pre-owned XC90s or older X5s and MLs. Can't quite swallow the price of those cars so I switch them to a more loaded Grand Cherokee. They see the adjustable pedals and the multi-thousand dollar discount vs the Euro SUVs and they are sold.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    ULSD is .79 cent a ltr in Alberta....X 3.785= $2.99 CDN a U.S. gallon

    Take off a10% discount for the U.S. dollar exchange factor and you have $2.69

    With the Jetta's Camel like capacity for conserving fluids, a tank full of ULSD should get you across a whole Province.
    A couple of guys in a VW Jetta TDI went from Calgary to a hockey game in Vancover on one tank.

    (The last 100 miles the Jetta was probably running on Beer Fumes)
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Interesting timing on your comment about driving in Canada. I just saw this article about a couple driving cross-Canada:

    http://www.windsorstar.com/cars/Good+great+mileage+first+days/1841700/story.html-

    So far, their mileage has been good with their best at 44 mpg (US gallons). I would have thought they would do better, but I don't think their driving in a conservative manner (so it's probably pretty much "real world" numbers).
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    It just goes to show you the provinces have price variation just as the (US) states do. I think Canadians might see higher CN prices as an insult of sorts; for while CN is an oil exporter to the US, it actually pays more per gal (us) than we do. Logic would suggest they would pay a lot less.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Several points.

    1. Unlike gassers which can yield their better to best mpg numbers after 1,000 miles, the VW Jetta TDI does not yield its best numbers till app 40,000 to 60,000 miles. This was not mentioned, not even a footnote. Specifically 1-3 mpg BETTER @ those miles.

    2. What did they expect for an mpg number? One close "rival Honda Accord " with slightly more torque@ its disposal (254 #ft vs 236 # ft) is fully a V6. The rated mpg are 19 C/29 H and 22 Comb. So if they got 44 vs 29 for the sake of argument that is 15 mpg MORE, or 52% better !! OK use a 4 cylinder Honda Accord @ 21C 30H/24 Comb. That is still 162 # feet of torque vs 236 # ft. The VW Jetta TDI still gets 47% BETTER. Finally a like model gasser Jetta gets 24 mpg.... Again you know the drill.

    3. What they didn't say would lead me to believe they really didn't understand the best RPMs to achieve even better mpg !! I broken in a 09 TDI in the herky jerky style on a 2,200 mile road trip with almost no regard for mpg (focus on "correct" break in RPMS and procedures) and it posted 43.65 mpg !!?? This is with 3 adults and the trunk literally stuffed to the gills A/C blasting. The GPS indicated when it was on, that the car went no faster than 90 mph. :surprise:
  • inlarryinlarry Member Posts: 13
    Hey just thought I'd let everyone know that I got the soot problem fixed (actually VW did it for me). Apparently, on 2004-2005 TDI's they "accidentally" installed the wrong glow plugs and a bad version of ECM software. I got the recall notice in the mail, had my car in the dealership 3 days later. Since then, no soot. Been using the same fuel too.
  • retrnofthejetaretrnofthejeta Member Posts: 2
    Mr. Shiftright,

    You are so right, each type of car does have its strength. Does anyone know if they make a more deluxe storage unit for in between the front seats that is larger? I am also looking at getting some tempurpedic pads for the seats. If you have any other ideas to make it more liveable, please let me know. I have gotten used to the head rest so that is no longer a problem.

    Thanks.
    H
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The military uses "sheepskins "(over seats) for transport aircraft (C17, C141, C5, KC 767, etc. Missions can easily last over 12 hours.
  • longo2longo2 Member Posts: 347
    I think these 2 Canadians have no clue about 'break in' or any other aspect of the new TDI Sportwagon they are driving. More like a way to get your expenses paid for a nice vacation.

    They seem more interested in "Lunch" than how the new VW is performing vs how they are driving it.

    This yarn would be much more interesting had the Jetta not already broken more than one record for mpgs, and fastest time Coast to Coast on 82 gallons, in the "Willy Run" can't imagine what that car smelt like after 38 steady hours of driving like mad men by a couple of Willy Nelson fans.

    "VW Jetta TDI Sets New World Record: 58.82 MPG" - TDIClub Forums

    (That's 70 mpg the way mpgs are calculated on the window stickers in Canada.)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Indeed !!

    I think the other truth is most folks really do NOT believe 58.82 mpg is possible, let alone do able. If I never drove a TDI, or have actually done it myself, I might at worst need some convincing; to probably would not believe it either.

    For me the weirdness is when I got 59 mpg. I really did not set out to do that at all. Nor would I say I did ANY hypermiling techniques !!! It was @ 75 mph and across 3 states and one foreign country and with the A/C blasting.

    65 mpg is infinitely do able, but I would fight serious road hynosis. Of course being rear ended by a fully loaded single, double or triple tracker trailer rig might ruin the day also.

    The other thing that I have not heard mentioned much, even by seasoned long distance travelers is that it is VERY dificult to exceed and average speed of 55-59 mph from starting point to end destination, aka point A to B !!!! The real key at even a shot at beating those speeds is to stop for literally NOTHING. I have stopped for nature calls after having passed literally scores of tractor trailers and upon getting back on the highway commence to pass ALL the very same vehicles. ;)
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    I got the same recall. My wife tells me I'm wrong :surprise: First time ever.
    But, this covers the manual trany only, is that correct? That's the way I read it.
  • shriftyshrifty Member Posts: 255
    2nd Quarter results for 2009 have been posted, it seems that this past quarter saw a slight decline in ULSD. Not sure how accurate this survey is, but interesting to check out.

    http://www.clean-diesel.org/pump_survey.html
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well there you have it. Not only does D2 offer 20-40% better fuel mileage, but RUG to PUG (30 ppm) is a min of 4.29 X dirtier than ULSD @7 ppm !! If you adjust for the fact that RUG to PUG has to only meet 90 ppm and can be adjusted off line by offsetting dollars or tax credits. RUG to PUG can be UP to 12.9 X dirtier than D2.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't believe it actually. :P

    Well I mean, it's POSSIBLE on occasion but I doubt that 99% of TDI drivers come anywhere near it, averaged out over the course of a year. Certainly nobody road testing them or longterm testing them gets anywhere near that mileage.

    I once got 32 mpg on my Subaru but the annual average is actually 25.2.

    No fair picking your BEST and calling it the norm.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If you actually got 32 mpg on a trip, would you say you got 25.2 mpg?

    It is like my standard answers to friends who don't drive diesels, oh not bad, it could be better, you know how EXPENSIVE fuel is these days and yada, yada.....

    Or like talking to friends who do 3,000 to 5,000 mile oci's. Well gee, I don't know exactly, I have it written down somewhere.....
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    No but I wouldn't say "my car gets 32 mpg".
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Well the question was closer to what did you get on the trip !!!??? NOT what do you get average, normally, winter, summer, spring, fall , etc etc??? Now that doesn't mean any of those can't be a follow up question.

    I normally give the ranges and I know the averages. I even know the epa ratings.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well I was thinking if someone asks me "what mpg can I expect with a VW TDI" (or a Prius or a whatever) I would give them my opinion based on the average mileage over the course of their ownership.

    And this is what I'd expect if I bought one, too.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Few years back I drove non-stop Los Angeles, CA to Fairbank, AK (2 drivers - one drives the second one sleeps) in less than 4 days. At that time, I drove Chevy Suburban. Did not record average MPG but ended up with a tennis ball hole in front windshiedl and both head lights broken from on-coming trucks on dirt road that still exist on Alaska Highway (not to mention about an inch thick mud covered car). I am planing to repeat that trip in my 09 Tdi Wagon next Spring plus Prudhoe Bay, as final destination (the infamous "haul" road). I have to figure out how to protect the windshield and head lights though - I have seen some mesh guards up in Yukon on some passenger cars... Will give everybody a report on MPG etc...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    For warned is for armed. I would suggest the best course of action is to inquire the price of a new replacement windshield for the 09 TDI JSW and determine whether it makes sense to:

    1. save up for the repair/replacement
    2. adjust your comprehensive (window) coverage for the 6 mo period you will take that vacation, IF that makes financial sense for the "chances" you are taking, then readjust when it no longer makes sense to "cover" the... need.... ;)
    3. do nothing.

    Each state also has its transit damage reporting agency where you can file claims such as happened to your Chevy Suburban. So for example the CA limit is $5,000 reporting directly to CA Trans. Over that, you have to file to the victims compensation section directly.

    If you get those bullseye pings, insurance companies normally pay (for a guy to come out ) to drill out and epoxy the ping.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."And this is what I'd expect if I bought one, too. "...

    Indeed so would I. My response was in keeping in the "context" of THAT ROAD TRIP.

    Again this really goes beyond diesel and that is know your equipment's parameters and (hopefully) drive your equipment within those parameters to achieve whatever goals you have: long, med, short, term, etc. .
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    A windshield is just part of the cost of driving the Alaska Highway....been there, done that, a few times. What with all the dust, etc, a mesh guard is a pain.
  • jogousajogousa Member Posts: 402
    Having my car insured by Geico in FL you get the windshield always replaced at no cost (even if you are driving out of state). Done that - works even with a rental car that I had from FOX rental at LAX....and broke my windshield on the way to the bottom of Grand Canyon on Hualapai Indian reservation driving from Peach Springs, AZ to the Colorado River at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
    So much of that - it's actually off the subject, I guess....
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