Just for fun, I was able to get a bit north of 53 MPG with my 09 TDI. Not over 55, but close enough. Didn't care for the driving experience (or lack of), so I'm content with mid-40s. Not sure how the EPA came up with the 41 MPG highway rating, I guess you really need to take the phrase "Drive it like you stole it" to heart.
My son went through essentially the same decision process as you, a Mazda3 hatch or a Jetta TDI. He bought the Mazda3 Grand Touring hatch. Although German cars, as most European cars, handle very well, the Mazda3 Grand Touring is absolutely no slouch in this department. In fact, it is very, very good.
Beyond the fuel economy differential, I wonder which of the two is more reliable up to say, 150K? So far, my son's Mazda3 has been bulletproof in the reliability department.
Thanks. I agree the Mazda handling was unexpectedly good. I'm just trying to figure out which may be most reliable up to 10yrs/100k. At the 10 yr/100k mark, the TDI would make up the initial cost difference but I'm starting to lean more towards a more inexpensive gasser...the Mazda maybe or the Jetta S. I also test drove a Ford Fusion 4 cyl tonight, but the automatic in it was less than impressive.
Given what you said , miles per year driven and the price differences, it would seem that the Mazda 3 GT is the ticket.
But on the other hand, perhaps I am missing something. Mazda 3 GT has a MSRP of 22,000 INVOICE of 20,599 Jetta TDI has a MSRP of 22,660, INVOICE of 21370. So the range of additional cost is 660 MSRP to $771 INVOICE. So even @ invoice of 771, your BE on fuel is app 2.7 years @ 10,500 per year
If you like the Jetta TDI, ask them to match the price you can get the MAZDA GT If not, still MAZDA GT. One danger with the Mazda 3 GT: the do dah list is LONG !!!!! .
The six speed tranny is out. I'm trying out cars and the GTI was a DSG whatever the hell that is and the paddle shifter drove me nuts,.the price $30304.00Also, I tried a six speed and it drove no different than the 09 but was $$25k same model both loaded.
Then I went to Mazda and their inventory was low and I mean low.I tried a GT HB w/ all the bells and Whistles. It was $ 24k and A/T I didn't like it. I was looking for a 6 spd or 5 spd Sport w/sunroof. The sales person said the auto tranny is controlled by a computer and gives the same or better milage. (is that true) Lastly diesal fuel in my state has a 30 cent tax on it and cost $. 75 to a dollar more than gas.The dealer wouldn't tell me the price of a TDI HB and when they would be in. I figure 24k. No one seems to want to deal,so I don't feel sorry for the car dealers. I looked at the Frankfoot Auto Show and VW wants us to write our congreesman (person) to bring the Golf R over here. I like the Polo but it's not coming and the Fiesta 7 passenger is not slated for USA. We get the dumb down cars .
Ethynol is said to cause more pollution and condensation in your tank and cause evaporation of gas in tank. CA just reported this in the newspapers. My state adopts all CA standards. What is diesal fuel just Bunker c the same as you use to heat your house? It's dyed red for heating to make sure your not being road taxed . This country is going nuts . I had to pay tax on an order of keroscene for my work shop. I asked why and they told me I didn't have a toilet or bedroom. :confuse:
I agree with Shifty I only have 14 years looking at cars now, oh god that sounds bad when I am not even 30 yet, but I have never seen a 400,000 plus mile regular passenger car. In heavy duty and medium duty diesel trucks sure. I think we had a few Package Vans at UPS that were in that range but they were very tired lots of stop and go for those vehicles. Obviously the big feeder trucks hit a million miles on a regular basis.
I have a couple of customers with 300,000 plus mile Volvos and one or two with Saabs and none of them have had a complete engine or transmission overhaul. I had one customer with a documented 304,000 mile Classic Range Rover 1987 or 1988 I forget but it completely rusted away with holes the size of my fist in the frame. Even the chrome bumpers and portions of the aluminum body were corroding to nothingness. Twenty years of new england winters and poorly protected British steel did that.
I just think such forms of legendary diesel prowess, while very entertaining, are not fair to people who might then assume that because they buy a diesel they are somehow going to be spared the normal calamities that eventually catch up with all car owners. It sets too high an expectation for them to think they are going 400,000 miles because someone said, that someone read, that someone did.
Even if they don't believe the ultra high mileage mythology, they still might get the impression that the passenger car diesel is some kind of supra-mechanical, bulletproof powerplant.
I'd be very happy to get 225--250K reasonably reliable miles out of a new TDI Sportwagon. I would feel the car owned me nothing at that point.
I'd be very happy to get 225--250K reasonably reliable miles out of a new TDI Sportwagon. I would feel the car owned me nothing at that point.
That seems reasonable to me. That means our 1990 LS400 will be about 45 years old when it reaches 225k miles. I don't think it will make 100k this year. It 1s 20 years old this month. If something went wrong with the engine or transmission it would be a good excuse to trade it on the next C4C program. If it would still move down the road. It looks pretty new actually.
PS If the Sportwagen was 2 inches higher off the ground I would buy one.
I agree...I think I'm going to go down to the dealer in the next few days and measure the ground clearance in comparison to my Subaru Outback. I really like the Outback's extra inch or two. GEEZ, an AWD TDI Sportwagon with a few extra inches of ground clearance would be about the perfect vehicle to last a man a lifetime.
That would be my thinking. Enough room and enough ground clearance to do a little off road driving. Subaru is doing well with their diesels in the EU. Not sure if they will try to jump through the CARB hoops to sell them in the USA.
2009 VW Tdi Jetta SportWagen 6 speed manual - 6900 miles. I solved that pesky clearance problem with those rubber spacers from Jeg's P/N 720-1287 elsewhere mentioned on these pages. I did not even need coil spring compressor to install them - they just slide in, when you hoist the car. Jeg's has a set for front as well P/N 720-1281 but I did not need those after all, after running several times over speed bumps in our driveway at various speeds. So my hitch now does not hit the road anymore...
Bilstein also came out with stiffer shocks for this vehicle now, although it's about 100 bucks each. Will wait for a while but will get them for sure to stiffen the suspension.
Back to the routine I guess, every time that I ever owned a new car I replaced shocks the very first year after the purchase. Don't know what this "american ride" is about that Edmund's mentioned. Why can't they just use the same (stiff) suspension like the rest of the world?
Still waiting for that Subaru Forester Diesel to hit these shores (2nd year running in EU)... heard that they don't have the right automatic transmission for that combination (Subaru Forester - Diesel that is) and they don't want to introduce that vehicle here with only manual available.
Yes, each rubber ring (in rear) raises the car by 1 inch. Front rubber ring is flat on one side and with groove for coil spring on the other. I haven't put one on front because the front coils are stiffer due to heavy front end (due to high weight of the engine). If you look at the specs I think the weight distribution of VW Jetta Tdi is something like 60 or 70% front and the balance in rear.
You could put 2 rings in rear (one on top and one on bottom of coil spring) and you have the 2" raise right there. Come to think, I got the idea from TDI Club blogs where some Canadians have done it and it turns out to be the best solution. Those pesky Canadians like hitches and they pull just about anything up there.
I don't see any difference in handling even when cornering at higher speed. It's a great solution, in my opinion!
Checked your link (thanks) to the spacers and it looks like the bargain mod of the century. $6.00 to get an extra inch of clearance under that fragile cast aluminum oil pan is a no-brainer.
Lift up the car and slide the spacers into the relaxed coil springs, let it back down and you have bought an extra inch of insurance.
A friend of mine has been complaining about his 2006 Jetta bottoming out' over every little dip, when he has passengers in the back seat, so those rear spacers to stiffen things up a little and add another inch under the back bumper seems like another inexpensive solution to that issue.
On the Autobahn, with it's glass flat surfaces, VW must think their cars would never need more than 4" of clearance under the motors, where I live we sometimes need more than that just to get out of the yard!
Bingo! Just received in mail a VW bulletin/Suplement to 2009 VW Jetta Tdi Sportwagen's Owner's Manual with Max Permissible Trailer Weights... so, I guess it's official now folks! 2009 Tdi Jetta Wagon CAN have a hitch installed and CAN tow trailers on these shores as well ...for both, manual and auto tranny max trailer weight is 1000 lbs with or without brakes and 200 lbs max tongue load. Original owner's manual had no info on this....
I want to get custom rubber mats for my TDI. Going to WeatherTec's site, they have what they call "Digifit floorliners" mats. The dropdown only indicates availability for automatic transmission Jetta's. The photo on the site doesn't show anything that would indicate they wouldn't fit my manual vehicle. I haven't heard back from the manufacturer, so I am curious if anyone used them or has a comparable product that fits the Jetta well. Thanks.
I would go with AutoSport catalog and order custom floor mats from them or Oemplus.com from San Diego has them as well. WeatherTec (although it's a German company) is not always up to date with their products description and updates on their website.
I'd love to see pictures of your JSW with the spacers. I've always wondered if anyone would put those on this car. I have them on my 4runner and it seemed to make sense on this VW to me. Pics please! Email, flickr or any other way you can.
Hi jogousa. All you need to do is go to your CarSpace page and post them there. Take a look, it's self-explanatory. Once you have them posted, you'll see some code underneath them that you can use to display them here. Or you can just direct people to that page.
The "monster mats" offered by VW are VERY good. They have deep groves to hold a lot of water/slush/salt.
as a bonus - they are guaranteed to fit your VW perfectly. In the Jetta, Gulf and NB (New Beetle) thay my family has, the "Monster Mats" pop into the existing floor stubs.
There are two lines of code under each of your pictures ready to be copied and pasted right into a message box. The "embed image" code will display the picture here on the message page. The "URL" code will provide a link to the picture.
I know it's a long shot but any chance you have a standard side pic with before and after spacer install to show the difference in lift height? If no 'befores' do you have a side after? Looks great by the way.
I don't have any pix before and after but I can "feel" the difference on speed bumps. The car simply does not "bottom down" if you go slowly over the speed bumps or, perhaps it does bottom down but 1 inch higher than before thus not hitting the road. If you go faster over speed bumps you may not bottom down but you can knock off the front wheel alignment (I've had that with one of my previous vehicles - 2001 Saab 9-3). Visually though, unless you look daily at your rear end (hitch) you will notice that the car is about 1 inch higher. Absolutely no effect on handling, cornering or emergency manouvering.
The Road & Track Jetta TDI is up to about 30,000. Their comments are few but they say they love the free maintenance plan. They are getting 35 mpg averaged out for the whole 30K, and they really like the low end torque. There was also a cryptic remark about "outdriving the brakes" and I'm not sure if they meant they were driving too fast or that the brakes were not up to the car's performance.
The TDI will face stiff competition from the 2010 Prius, which claims 51 mpg, 134 HP, a $21000 price tag, and the lowest coefficient of drag of any production car in the world.
The TDI will face stiff competition from the 2010 Prius, which claims 51 mpg, 134 HP, a $21000 price tag, and the lowest coefficient of drag of any production car in the world.
$21,000 base price for Prius is a common as a Jackalope. Prius I is only available to fleet customers and only in very limited numbers.
$23,150 is the base price of the 2010 Prius according to Edmunds. Prius price increasing
At $22,660 MSRP for 2010 Jetta TDI Sedan, the Jetta haw a lower initial cost. Jetta also includes free maintenance for first 36,000 miles.
Price is even $1300 lower when you include the federal tax credit. $1700 less on the Golf TDI DSG.
If values of used TDI are consulted, the Jetta TDI has a higher percentage retained value than Prius.
Jetta TDI is well equipped to compete. A nice thing about TDI is that you can choose from Jetta TDI sedan, Jetta TDI Wagon, Golf TDI 2 door hatch, Golf TDI four door hatch, or Audi A3 TDI 4 door hatch. More choices to appeal to more people.
As to the brakes on the Jetta, I'd categorize them a merely adequate, they certainly are not great.
Well then, sounds like the Prius and VW Jetta are neck and neck on price and equipment. Prius has the edge in fuel economy and reliability, VW on free maintenance and handling and driving qualities.
The buyers though, are IMO completely different animals--so maybe they don't compete as much as I think they would.
I clicked on your link to go to that picture. I copied the code in the Embed Image line under your picture. You'll see it also says "put picture on your page". Then I pasted it here, added this text below the paste and posted.
OK, thanks Pat, here's a shot of my 2006 Texas TDI waiting to make the 2000 mile trip home.
I never tried posting the photo link first and adding the text after, but this way does works...great stuff. I was putting the "Embed Image" link after the text and all I ever got was the link, no pix. That seems to be the fix, thanks again, I hope from now on all Jetta posters will take advantage of the photo system..... Embed image link FIRST, text after. Don't mind me I always seem to do things Back @sswards
The buyers though, are IMO completely different animals--so maybe they don't compete as much as I think they would.
I very much agree. Except for fuel efficiency, they are about as similar in their appeal as Goldwing compared to a moped.
TDI and Prius are fierce competitors at the forum among their fans and detractors though.
I'm not too enthusiastic about the new Jetta that will arrive once the Chattanooga plant begins production. Bigger, softer handling and more cupholders are not my cup of tea.
The joke used to be in the 80s that Volvos were for people who hated cars---maybe the Prius is the modern substitute? I mean, an anti-car ideology can be just as passionate as that of the auto enthusiast.
Or, perhaps the Prius just appeals more to the gadget-freak rather than the car lover. You know, you get your Power Book, your iPhone and your Prius.
Prius also had a "touring edition" but I don't know as many people even knew what it was.
I would never own one, but the Prius impressed me nonetheless as a technology---as a car, it kind of reminded me of driving an old Citroen. Not bad, just.....weird....
I want a car that drives like a German car, is reliable as a Japanese car, and costs as little as an American car. :P
Off the record, my son (who works for Toyota National HQ in Torrance CA) is telling me that if anyone wants a Prius, get the 2010 model. Anything prior that he does not recommend.
Gee everybody I know who owns a Prius (thick as flies in California) has had near perfection in terms of reliability. VW should be so fortunate to enjoy this type of feedback out on the street.
I'm not sure what VW means by "the American market" but it sounds like softy-softy suspension to me, and I don't like the sound of that at all. Even Benz has a few models that seem a bit "cushy" to me these days.
Hard to believe it's been 33 years since the first GTI made driving little cars fun again. I hear there are rumors of a GTI version of the TDI.
VW should be careful. Without that great "driving experience", they'd be in deep doo-doo, I think. It's their strongest suit--along with styling of course.
YEP - softy softy is the key word. My close friend, who is an engineer and designer at BMW in Munich, confirmed this as well. American public, as a whole (he claims) likes soft plush suspensions (numerous car clinics when those cars are being designed so that the design engineers satisfy the marketing needs). On the other hand (he claims) with "soft" suspension the car "sticks" better to the road at high speeds. However, emergency manouvers suffer. Well, it may be true in EU where roads are flat a smooth... By the way the main flaw in earlier Priuses was the interior. Otherwise the rest is about identical with minor improvements. Overall though, it's an "old" technology (more than 10 years now) and there isn't much on the horizon for any new technology. The problem is also what to do with those used lithium energy cells when the life-cycle of this car is over....they (batteries) are worse than any type of emission on those landfills unless, of course, we export those to China, where they came from (we already do it with so-called "re-cycled" computers, screens, cathode tubes, etc.) that end up in landfills over there.
I believe the 2010 Prius is still using a "lighter but more powerful nickel-metal hydride battery pack", but it's still Nickel based and not Lithium. Recycling the battery is still energy intensive, but the "Greenies" that drive them don't seem to care.
I test drove a '09. It was very different. Kind of like operating a driving appliance :lemon: , not a car. The Jetta TDI is a much more pleasing experience for people that like sports cars and good handling :shades: .
You are right - about the batteries - I was thinking about lithium cells that are on drawing boards for future Prius models. 2010 Prius comes loaded with all sorts of interesting gadgets, but remains fundamentally the same as previous models. Modest mileage increases up the ante somewhat, but I imagine many consumers are holding out for the lithium ion and plugin prius versions that are expected down the line.
I have a nephew that is a VW technician in Minnesota. When I was considering a Jetta a couple of years ago I asked his opinion. He stated that they drive nice(which I knew) but they have all kinds of brake/electrical issues that may drive me crazy. He also said that repairs were much more expensive due to higher cost parts. He said the Japanese have the easiest to get and cheapest parts so that when they did need a repair it was usually pretty reasonable.
I ended up buying a Mazda6 and have had 36000 miles of absolutely trouble free driving. The car never had to go back to the shop for any kind of warranty work whatsoever....just routine maint. I also have an Infiniti that is 7 years old and it also has not had one trip to the dealer other than recommended maint. I have a '03 Tundra that has been excellent except for a new tranny(I know) which was replaced at 43,000 under warranty.
I still wish to buy a German car again as I had VWs back in the 60s/70s and liked them. I just am spoiled now with owning three Japanese vehicles and such great experience. I don't know what I would do if I had to get repairs often.
Anyway, I liked the statement about German car driving experience, Japanese reliability and American prices. It would be a great.
Comments
Beyond the fuel economy differential, I wonder which of the two is more reliable up to say, 150K? So far, my son's Mazda3 has been bulletproof in the reliability department.
Thanks. I agree the Mazda handling was unexpectedly good. I'm just trying to figure out which may be most reliable up to 10yrs/100k. At the 10 yr/100k mark, the TDI would make up the initial cost difference but I'm starting to lean more towards a more inexpensive gasser...the Mazda maybe or the Jetta S. I also test drove a Ford Fusion 4 cyl tonight, but the automatic in it was less than impressive.
But on the other hand, perhaps I am missing something. Mazda 3 GT has a MSRP of 22,000 INVOICE of 20,599 Jetta TDI has a MSRP of 22,660, INVOICE of 21370. So the range of additional cost is 660 MSRP to $771 INVOICE. So even @ invoice of 771, your BE on fuel is app 2.7 years @ 10,500 per year
If you like the Jetta TDI, ask them to match the price you can get the MAZDA GT If not, still MAZDA GT. One danger with the Mazda 3 GT: the do dah list is LONG !!!!! .
Then I went to Mazda and their inventory was low and I mean low.I tried a GT HB w/ all the bells and Whistles. It was $ 24k and A/T I didn't like it. I was looking for a 6 spd or 5 spd Sport w/sunroof. The sales person said the auto tranny is controlled by a computer and gives the same or better milage. (is that true)
Lastly diesal fuel in my state has a 30 cent tax on it and cost $. 75 to a dollar more than gas.The dealer wouldn't tell me the price of a TDI HB and when they would be in. I figure 24k. No one seems to want to deal,so I don't feel sorry for the car dealers.
I looked at the Frankfoot Auto Show and VW wants us to write our congreesman (person) to bring the Golf R over here. I like the Polo but it's not coming and the Fiesta 7 passenger is not slated for USA. We get the dumb down cars .
CA just reported this in the newspapers. My state adopts all CA standards. What is diesal fuel just Bunker c the same as you use to heat your house? It's dyed red for heating to make sure your not being road taxed .
This country is going nuts . I had to pay tax on an order of keroscene for my work shop. I asked why and they told me I didn't have a toilet or bedroom. :confuse:
I have a couple of customers with 300,000 plus mile Volvos and one or two with Saabs and none of them have had a complete engine or transmission overhaul. I had one customer with a documented 304,000 mile Classic Range Rover 1987 or 1988 I forget but it completely rusted away with holes the size of my fist in the frame. Even the chrome bumpers and portions of the aluminum body were corroding to nothingness. Twenty years of new england winters and poorly protected British steel did that.
Even if they don't believe the ultra high mileage mythology, they still might get the impression that the passenger car diesel is some kind of supra-mechanical, bulletproof powerplant.
I'd be very happy to get 225--250K reasonably reliable miles out of a new TDI Sportwagon. I would feel the car owned me nothing at that point.
That seems reasonable to me. That means our 1990 LS400 will be about 45 years old when it reaches 225k miles.
PS
If the Sportwagen was 2 inches higher off the ground I would buy one.
I solved that pesky clearance problem with those rubber spacers from Jeg's P/N 720-1287 elsewhere mentioned on these pages. I did not even need coil spring compressor to install them - they just slide in, when you hoist the car. Jeg's has a set for front as well P/N 720-1281 but I did not need those after all, after running several times over speed bumps in our driveway at various speeds. So my hitch now does not hit the road anymore...
Bilstein also came out with stiffer shocks for this vehicle now, although it's about 100 bucks each. Will wait for a while but will get them for sure to stiffen the suspension.
Back to the routine I guess, every time that I ever owned a new car I replaced shocks the very first year after the purchase. Don't know what this "american ride" is about that Edmund's mentioned. Why can't they just use the same (stiff) suspension like the rest of the world?
Still waiting for that Subaru Forester Diesel to hit these shores (2nd year running in EU)... heard that they don't have the right automatic transmission for that combination (Subaru Forester - Diesel that is) and they don't want to introduce that vehicle here with only manual available.
You could put 2 rings in rear (one on top and one on bottom of coil spring) and you have the 2" raise right there. Come to think, I got the idea from TDI Club blogs where some Canadians have done it and it turns out to be the best solution. Those pesky Canadians like hitches and they pull just about anything up there.
I don't see any difference in handling even when cornering at higher speed.
It's a great solution, in my opinion!
http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=62641
Lift up the car and slide the spacers into the relaxed coil springs, let it back down and you have bought an extra inch of insurance.
A friend of mine has been complaining about his 2006 Jetta bottoming out' over every little dip, when he has passengers in the back seat, so those rear spacers to stiffen things up a little and add another inch under the back bumper seems like another inexpensive solution to that issue.
On the Autobahn, with it's glass flat surfaces, VW must think their cars would never need more than 4" of clearance under the motors, where I live we sometimes need more than that just to get out of the yard!
I'd love to see pictures of your JSW with the spacers. I've always wondered if anyone would put those on this car. I have them on my 4runner and it seemed to make sense on this VW to me. Pics please! Email, flickr or any other way you can.
See more Car Pictures at CarSpace.com">links I can get, but the actual image, no.
Any other advice for those wishing to add images on their posts?
as a bonus - they are guaranteed to fit your VW perfectly. In the Jetta, Gulf and NB (New Beetle) thay my family has, the "Monster Mats" pop into the existing floor stubs.
RELAX, Hippie...it's biodiesel!
Try it!!
Those are nice. Thnx for posting.
I know it's a long shot but any chance you have a standard side pic with before and after spacer install to show the difference in lift height? If no 'befores' do you have a side after? Looks great by the way.
The car simply does not "bottom down" if you go slowly over the speed bumps or, perhaps it does bottom down but 1 inch higher than before thus not hitting the road. If you go faster over speed bumps you may not bottom down but you can knock off the front wheel alignment (I've had that with one of my previous vehicles - 2001 Saab 9-3).
Visually though, unless you look daily at your rear end (hitch) you will notice that the car is about 1 inch higher. Absolutely no effect on handling, cornering or emergency manouvering.
If it was as easy as you say, this forum would be displaying tons of Jetta pix from posters.
I have spent the past half hour trying a test post with a photo but it's a no go with your directions, setting up the CARSPACE photo album was a snap, but linking the photos to here is a dead end.
Any thoughts?
The TDI will face stiff competition from the 2010 Prius, which claims 51 mpg, 134 HP, a $21000 price tag, and the lowest coefficient of drag of any production car in the world.
$21,000 base price for Prius is a common as a Jackalope. Prius I is only available to fleet customers and only in very limited numbers.
$23,150 is the base price of the 2010 Prius according to Edmunds. Prius price increasing
At $22,660 MSRP for 2010 Jetta TDI Sedan, the Jetta haw a lower initial cost. Jetta also includes free maintenance for first 36,000 miles.
Price is even $1300 lower when you include the federal tax credit. $1700 less on the Golf TDI DSG.
If values of used TDI are consulted, the Jetta TDI has a higher percentage retained value than Prius.
Jetta TDI is well equipped to compete. A nice thing about TDI is that you can choose from Jetta TDI sedan, Jetta TDI Wagon, Golf TDI 2 door hatch, Golf TDI four door hatch, or Audi A3 TDI 4 door hatch. More choices to appeal to more people.
As to the brakes on the Jetta, I'd categorize them a merely adequate, they certainly are not great.
The buyers though, are IMO completely different animals--so maybe they don't compete as much as I think they would.
I clicked on your link to go to that picture. I copied the code in the Embed Image line under your picture. You'll see it also says "put picture on your page". Then I pasted it here, added this text below the paste and posted.
Is that clearer than I was before? Sorry.
OK, thanks Pat, here's a shot of my 2006 Texas TDI waiting to make the 2000 mile trip home.
I never tried posting the photo link first and adding the text after, but this way does works...great stuff. I was putting the "Embed Image" link after the text and all I ever got was the link, no pix.
That seems to be the fix, thanks again, I hope from now on all Jetta posters will take advantage of the photo system.....
Embed image link FIRST, text after.
Don't mind me I always seem to do things Back @sswards
I very much agree. Except for fuel efficiency, they are about as similar in their appeal as Goldwing compared to a moped.
TDI and Prius are fierce competitors at the forum among their fans and detractors though.
I'm not too enthusiastic about the new Jetta that will arrive once the Chattanooga plant begins production. Bigger, softer handling and more cupholders are not my cup of tea.
Or, perhaps the Prius just appeals more to the gadget-freak rather than the car lover. You know, you get your Power Book, your iPhone and your Prius.
Prius also had a "touring edition" but I don't know as many people even knew what it was.
I would never own one, but the Prius impressed me nonetheless as a technology---as a car, it kind of reminded me of driving an old Citroen. Not bad, just.....weird....
I want a car that drives like a German car, is reliable as a Japanese car, and costs as little as an American car. :P
I think VW might have the car for you in a couple of years, built in the USA for the 'American Market' (what ever their consultants tell them that is)
Not sure which Japanese car you think is so reliable, but I actually hope they are much more reliable..
I'm not sure what VW means by "the American market" but it sounds like softy-softy suspension to me, and I don't like the sound of that at all. Even Benz has a few models that seem a bit "cushy" to me these days.
Hard to believe it's been 33 years since the first GTI made driving little cars fun again. I hear there are rumors of a GTI version of the TDI.
VW should be careful. Without that great "driving experience", they'd be in deep doo-doo, I think. It's their strongest suit--along with styling of course.
By the way the main flaw in earlier Priuses was the interior.
Otherwise the rest is about identical with minor improvements. Overall though, it's an "old" technology (more than 10 years now) and there isn't much on the horizon for any new technology. The problem is also what to do with those used lithium energy cells when the life-cycle of this car is over....they (batteries) are worse than any type of emission on those landfills unless, of course, we export those to China, where they came from (we already do it with so-called "re-cycled" computers, screens, cathode tubes, etc.) that end up in landfills over there.
I test drove a '09. It was very different. Kind of like operating a driving appliance :lemon: , not a car. The Jetta TDI is a much more pleasing experience for people that like sports cars and good handling :shades: .
2010 Prius comes loaded with all sorts of interesting gadgets, but remains fundamentally the same as previous models. Modest mileage increases up the ante somewhat, but I imagine many consumers are holding out for the lithium ion and plugin prius versions that are expected down the line.
I ended up buying a Mazda6 and have had 36000 miles of absolutely trouble free driving. The car never had to go back to the shop for any kind of warranty work whatsoever....just routine maint. I also have an Infiniti that is 7 years old and it also has not had one trip to the dealer other than recommended maint. I have a '03 Tundra that has been excellent except for a new tranny(I know) which was replaced at 43,000 under warranty.
I still wish to buy a German car again as I had VWs back in the 60s/70s and liked them. I just am spoiled now with owning three Japanese vehicles and such great experience. I don't know what I would do if I had to get repairs often.
Anyway, I liked the statement about German car driving experience, Japanese reliability and American prices. It would be a great.