Are you perhaps filling up at pumps where the big 18-Wheelers fuel up? I'm told that these deliver higher volumes and have different dispensers. Hard to say otherwise. Ours is a 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI and we've had no problems filling up at the diesel pumps where automobiles fill. Perhaps you'll want to try a different brand in your area and see if things there are any different. Good luck to you!
Hi everyone, has anyone heard or know about the stalling of engines with the 2009 TDI Jettas. On another forum there was an article about this saying it could be the fault of fuel filter reason being the fuel isnt good or something to that nature, and there have been a few incidents where engines have just stalled, If any other news about this please post Thank You Roadmaster45
One time I was talking with a colleague about our TDIs, and he said that he had once gotten contaminated diesel fuel and his TDI stalled soon after he left the station. He had to have the fuel filter replaced, and I suppose the fuel tank was drained of the bad fuel as well. That took care of the problem. He suspected afterward that the station probably had low customer traffic for diesel given its location. His was not a 2009 TDI, maybe a 2007.
I edited my post to correct PowerService from PowerSource. I believe it does have a cetane booster product, although I am not familiar with these products (hence the reason I broke commandment #2)
Some owners of '09+ TDIs have been adding PowerService, Stanadyne, OptiLube or others after careful research. The new TDI's have Diesel Particulate Filters (DPFs), so additives must be chosen with great care and with some risk if VW somehow exposed their use and denied a warranty claim.
A lot has been written on the poorer lubricity of US diesel fuel in comparison to European diesel fuel, so some North American owners are hedging their bets with additives that boost lubricity. Biodiesel also has excellent lubricity and isn't an additive, so owners using B1 through B5 (VW has a US limit of 5% bio) are perhaps extending the life of their engines and fuel pumps and without risk.
It's not for the engine, it's for the fuel. Your TDI is not going to enjoy sucking in diesel jell-o at subzero temperatures. If you own a diesel, you may require additives (depending on conditions and availability and quality) and you need to change filters.
Are these additives and cooling down the turbo after running hard all outlined in the owners manual? If not, why not? I've always been told that if you follow the owners manual exactly you can't go wrong because it was written by the engineers that designed the car. I would like to think they would know how to take care of it.
My neighbor is a long-time TDI owner and he drives about 40k per year. He started driving them shortly after I bought my '00 so I guess I got him into this mess...anyway his '05.5 camshaft melted down at 180k miles and he decided to get a new one instead of fixing it. Now his '09 started having stall issues at 70k miles and after a week or so it shut down completely. He is having nothing but trouble getting it fixed. They claim it's in the fuel system which is not covered by powertrain...dealer wants over $6k to fix basically everything...which tells me they really don't know what it is. He petitioned VW to fix it under warranty and they said it was likely damaged due to bad fuel and his vehicle insurance might pay for it. His insurance company tested the fuel in the car when it ultimately failed and the test came back perfectly fine. Claim refused. Now VW is "reconsidering" if they'll pay for the repair or not. Six weeks without a car....he's taking it better than I would. I'm not sure if your stalling issues could be the same but I would certainly investigate closely and I'd be careful about driving it to the point it gets worse!
I guess I was thinking about the HPFP, which is mounted on the engine.
Owners will have to come to their own decision on additives. I haven't yet used them, but see some benefits if they're chosen wisely. We live in an area of the U.S. where fuel jelling will not be a problem, but do worry about low lubricity, keeping injectors clean and keeping fuel water free.
Yes, I had a water trap on my last diesel Benz and it worked, too. Since this was an older car, I'd dose it with biocide once a year, too, and sometimes I'd use Redline Cetane booster for long hard trips. I only used the injector cleaner (a potent type you can't buy off the shelf) when the engine was running a bit rough, which was a rare event. I ran many many hard miles in that car and was extremely attentive to fuel purity.
To give you an idea about maintenance...I owned one of those old VW diesel pickups for a few years--just kept it around for light hauling, for my bikes, etc. Always reliable. Sold it to someone, and it was dead in 4 weeks. Ruined.
The point of my babbling here, which is not about TDIs per se? It's this:
The general public, well, some of us I mean, think of modern diesels as LOW maintenance vehicles, that are "simpler" than regular cars. This is often how they are marketed, unfortunately. Truth is, in my opinion, is that modern diesels are actually DIFFERENT maintenance vehicles, not low maintenance. So it's a different mindset required when owning a diesel, not necessarily a care-free mindset.
I was just reading elsewhere about the HPFP being a pretty big issue on the '09+. Sounds like my neighbors quote of $6k to fix might even be on the low end compared to some others!! I guess I'm done shopping. I used to be a huge TDI fan and have been waiting for the right time to get back into one. Just can't make any sense out of it these days.
The "repair" bill is outrageous at $6,000 but on other accounts owners have reported that $10,000 has been closer to the bottom line.
Seems that the actual fuel pump damage (the culprit) sets off a chain reaction through the whole system...injectors,, fuel lines and right back to the fuel tank...everything gets replaced with new items and then...so what, it could all start happening again, and off warranty next time.
As the fuel pump starts to eat itself to death, it sends little flakes of ground up metal parts thoughout the whole diesel fuel supply and back to the engine. The resulting damage in the fuel system is from one end of the car to the other and the result is the engine simply stalls and won't start again.
Not good news if it happens during a left turn in front of on coming traffic hence the "safety issue" that has now put the 09's VW TDI's under the spotight. And if VW claims they have no idea what is causing the problem (which I don't believe for a second)...the Jetta TDI 2010's problems won't be far behind.
The engine in my 2006 V W TDI uses a totally different fuel delivery system, and has a totally different set of engine problems....but at least one of them is not dangerous sudden unexpected stalling. Cratered cam followers, ground up camshaft and lower cam bearings yes, but at least the engine will have given off death rattles for a while before it dies.
I cannot think of a vehicle sold today gas or diesel that I would buy without extended warranty for as long as I own it. Vehicles are so cluttered with useless crap that cost a fortune to repair, that it is just crazy. You may get a lot of miles out of them. It better be in a short time. I don't think they build vehicles for longevity. I wanted a smaller SUV/CUV with a 4 cylinder TDI. I am not so sure I would buy one if it was offered. I am good for several more years with two of my vehicles full covered warranty. Just drive them and let someone else learn the hard way. Buy old would be the wise move.
Well I don't really consider the fuel pump to be useless crap....but the fact that it can fail and cost upwards of $10,000....that's just nuts. You can replace a complete engine/transmission for half of that in any other vehicle....and it likely won't implode at 50k miles and be OUT of manufacturers warranty. I can't come up with any other non-powertrain part that should cost anywhere near that much to repair. If this was an exotic $100k vehicle I could certainly buy into the possibility...but at $25k most people would be completely unable to afford the repair.
I agree on the fuel pump. There are so many electronic gadgets that are over $1000 each. The airbag light is lit on our LS400 Lexus. Flat $1200 to fix it. It has never been in an accident or had the airbag deployed. Just sending a signal that something is wrong with it. Spending $1200 on a car that is likely not worth that much is just as crazy as $10k on a car worth at least $20k. And that is my point on having extended warranty. They are gambling nothing will go wrong and I am betting something will. Our 2007 Sequoia is the first vehicle I have bought the extended warranty on. It was based on the cheap electronics Toyota uses over the last few years. The used Nissan Frontier I just bought, I got 7 more years Bumper to bumper. Just don't want to think about a $6k or $10k bill. I am sure it would be $6 grand to put a new engine in either the Toyota or Nissan.
Roadmaster45 Check out NHTSA website. They are currently investigating the stalling issue and are asking drivers with similar problems to submit to their inquiry. I saw something about this on another post.
Last year BMW began experiencing HPFP problems with some models and extended the warranty on their HPFP's to 10 years/120K miles. Are you watching and listening, VW/Audi?
Thanks for the link. I have had a bit of stuttering, but no actual stalling. Kind of annoying more than anything, but will be reporting it shortly. Mine has the DSG transmission.
I'm a gambler so I never buy the warranty. So far its never bit me. What Frontier did you get? I'm rolling in a '08 Pathfinder at the moment and beyond upgrading the suspension I'm real happy with it. Lots of power and I'm averaging 20-21mpg on my commute. Not bad for a 4x4 with 3 rows and good power. I was also waiting on a Tiquan tdi but just don't think its worth the bother anymore.
That is interesting to know. It sounds like we have some bad ULSD being sold in parts of the USA. We have lots of regulations and little or no enforcement. One of my choices if I decide to go diesel is the X5. Most fun of any of the diesel SUVs I have driven. 10 years and 120k would be something worth looking into. If I ever buy a diesel, I would expect to keep it that long or longer. I have been waiting for the Tiguan to be offered with the 4 cylinder TDI. If VW does not address this problem they would not be a great choice.
To piggyback what you said about the dirty fuel, I wonder if my fuel filter needs to be changed? I'm heading in for my 60K service in two weeks (couldn't get an earlier appointment) and it is past due. The fuel filter is recommended to be changed every 20K. I'll have to pay a bit more attention as to how the car runs after the service is done.
Well the odds are obviously in my favor. There's no insurance (warranty) company in the world out there selling these things KNOWING they'll lose money. They have access to far better data than the buying public and they price their product accordingly.
That's right. The insurance (warranty) company is betting that our cars will run great, and if we buy their policy, we're betting it won't. If they are still in business, then they know more than we do. :P
It depends a lot on how expensive it is, what it covers, how long it is and is the company reputable. It's usually far more logical to just put the money away and let it earn(very little nowdays) interest in case the major repairs come to fruition. If not, you're money ahead.
If you can find a very reasonable policy with a good company with a vehicle that past history shows is a crapshoot, it could be a good move and there is something to be said for peace of mind knowing that you're covered.
I just had over $1000 in repairs to a $2500 refrigerator that I bought five years ago and purchased a 5 year service agreement. The service agreement was about $300 and the repairs were all covered. There was only 3 months left on the service agreement when the repairs were needed. I renewed the service agreement for another 3 years. Some things are so complex that they almost guarantee problems. Just make sure the service agreement will cover all the problems because even small problems can lead to a lot of hours($$$) of diagnosis time.
Problem is, many of these extended warranties (so-called) have exclusions, and some of those exclusions are often on expensive components, like electronics.
People *never* seem to read the exclusion clauses and then become enraged when their NAV or onboard computer isn't covered.
Exactly. That's why I said "Just make sure the service agreement will cover all the problems".
It seems, from what I've read, that if one could get a reasonably priced policy for just electrical items on a German car it would make sense. I doubt if any such policy exists and you would really have to read the small print on that one.
Here's a GM Extended "Major Guard" (their best and most $$$ extended warranty plan) Exclusion List:
* Maintenance services and parts (refer to coverage agreement) * Glass * Lenses * Sealed beams * Light bulbs * Tires * Components not installed by the vehicle manufacturer * Bumpers * Sheet metal * Body panels and parts * Carpet * Hinges * Trim * Upholstery * Convertible or vinyl tops * Molding or bright metal
* Air and water leaks * Wind noise * Odors * Weather-strips * Squeaks * Rattles * Paint * Rust * Carburetor * Contaminated fuel system * Exhaust system * Catalytic converter * Brake drums/rotors * Brake pads/shoes * Shock absorbers * Batteries * Spark plugs and wires * Manual clutch disc
I am a fiend for VW TDIs and have owned four. But I would definitely NOT buy a new one due to the many reports of HPFP failures not always being covered by warranty, costing the owner $6000 to $10000 in repair bills.
Actually if I were VW or an insurance company selling warranties I probably wouldn't cover contaminated fuel either---that's really the responsibility of the dispensing fuel station.
Reading around the net a little more...it seems the "rumor" at least is that most of the fuel here in the U.S. does not meet the spec requirements of the HPFP. So I guess as far as VW is concerned....all the fuel in the US is "contaminated". Sounds like they're generally covering these as a part of the powertrain warranty. Some with less fighting than others.
It is kind of which came first the chicken or the egg. If VW sells their vehicles in a country with marginal fuel. I would say they are responsible. Like the RUG Premium debate. If you run Regular in a car that specifies only Premium is the auto maker responsible for a failure under warranty? If VW can prove you have used anything but ULSD, I would say you could be in for a battle. My understanding is the Feds have given several states a longer time to use Only ULSD. How much high sulfur diesel was still in tanks at the transition?
I can't see how they would determine at a dealership if fuel meets a certain chemical spec and thus grant or deny warranty. Some dealerships aren't even good mechanics, much less chemists. Sounds more like a lame excuse for a badly designed part, doesn't it?
I think this whole HPFP story needs a more thorough research.
From what I can gather, it's the VW pump that fails and "contaminates" the system---unless American gas stations are selling acid instead of diesel fuel....? :P
What do you all think of this comment I picked up from a TDI forum:
"Dealership in NJ immediately said I had GAS on my fuel.
Presented a bill for 6607 dollars. I called Customer Care many times trying to convince them that there was no GAS in my car after having the in ground tanks tested at both stations where I filled up with Diesel. They refused to consider there was no "outside influence" that caused the entire fuel system to fail. There were NO other problems reported to either station.
I now have proof from the NC ag dept fuel testing lab that there was no GAS in the sample of fuel removed from my tank. Called the service manager in NJ. His response.. " we're not chemists here, your fuel was contaminated"."
If anything, the higher sulfphur fuel would cause LESS issues with the HPFP. The problem could be from the HFRR rating for lubrication of the fuel. In Europe the standard is set at 460 and in the US it's "accepted" at 520 but realistically ULSD could be as high as 700-900 without a decent additive pack by the fuel distributor.
Are there enough of these failures to develop a pattern of what brand of fuel could be the culprit? It really is disconcerting for anyone thinking of buying a diesel vehicle. It is like biodiesel. How do you know the good stuff from the bad. To avoid negative publicity VW should be repairing these vehicles and following up on where the diesel was purchased. It could be one lousy brand. I agree more sulfur would help lubricity. Just foul up the emissions system. It may be best just to buy an older diesel and use a lubricating additive. It does raise the price of fuel per gallon.
Realistically, the fuel could be perfectly fine according to US standards (520 rating) but still inadequate for the European spec. Considering the lubricants are added by the distributor...I don't think any particular brand would be responsible. But even one batch with no lubricant added could damage a HPFP quickly....or at least severely escalate the wear.
I also agree, that VW could have a nightmare on their hands, if their engines will not handle much of the diesel sold in the USA. It would be a shame just when diesel is starting to gain favor with the environmentalists.
Comments
Just make sure that you are getting ULSD, and stick to getting fuel where other autos do and you should be ok.
A lot has been written on the poorer lubricity of US diesel fuel in comparison to European diesel fuel, so some North American owners are hedging their bets with additives that boost lubricity. Biodiesel also has excellent lubricity and isn't an additive, so owners using B1 through B5 (VW has a US limit of 5% bio) are perhaps extending the life of their engines and fuel pumps and without risk.
Owners will have to come to their own decision on additives. I haven't yet used them, but see some benefits if they're chosen wisely. We live in an area of the U.S. where fuel jelling will not be a problem, but do worry about low lubricity, keeping injectors clean and keeping fuel water free.
To give you an idea about maintenance...I owned one of those old VW diesel pickups for a few years--just kept it around for light hauling, for my bikes, etc. Always reliable. Sold it to someone, and it was dead in 4 weeks. Ruined.
The point of my babbling here, which is not about TDIs per se? It's this:
The general public, well, some of us I mean, think of modern diesels as LOW maintenance vehicles, that are "simpler" than regular cars. This is often how they are marketed, unfortunately. Truth is, in my opinion, is that modern diesels are actually DIFFERENT maintenance vehicles, not low maintenance. So it's a different mindset required when owning a diesel, not necessarily a care-free mindset.
Anyone who has experienced this problem (i.e. engine stalling while driving in gear) can add their complaint here http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/index.cfm>.
It's not clear to me whether the problem has been reported only in reference to DSG models or by drivers of manuals as well.
An entry about the investigation can be found in the "Consumer Reports" Cars Blog posted on 8/31/10 http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/08/nhtsa-investigates-stalling-proble- m-in-volkswagen-jetta-tdis-vw-diesels.html>.
Seems that the actual fuel pump damage (the culprit) sets off a chain reaction through the whole system...injectors,, fuel lines and right back to the fuel tank...everything gets replaced with new items and then...so what, it could all start happening again, and off warranty next time.
As the fuel pump starts to eat itself to death, it sends little flakes of ground up metal parts thoughout the whole diesel fuel supply and back to the engine.
The resulting damage in the fuel system is from one end of the car to the other and the result is the engine simply stalls and won't start again.
Not good news if it happens during a left turn in front of on coming traffic hence the "safety issue" that has now put the 09's VW TDI's under the spotight. And if VW claims they have no idea what is causing the problem (which I don't believe for a second)...the Jetta TDI 2010's problems won't be far behind.
The engine in my 2006 V W TDI uses a totally different fuel delivery system, and has a totally different set of engine problems....but at least one of them is not dangerous sudden unexpected stalling.
Cratered cam followers, ground up camshaft and lower cam bearings yes, but at least the engine will have given off death rattles for a while before it dies.
I cannot think of a vehicle sold today gas or diesel that I would buy without extended warranty for as long as I own it. Vehicles are so cluttered with useless crap that cost a fortune to repair, that it is just crazy. You may get a lot of miles out of them. It better be in a short time. I don't think they build vehicles for longevity. I wanted a smaller SUV/CUV with a 4 cylinder TDI. I am not so sure I would buy one if it was offered. I am good for several more years with two of my vehicles full covered warranty. Just drive them and let someone else learn the hard way. Buy old would be the wise move.
If you can find a very reasonable policy with a good company with a vehicle that past history shows is a crapshoot, it could be a good move and there is something to be said for peace of mind knowing that you're covered.
I just had over $1000 in repairs to a $2500 refrigerator that I bought five years ago and purchased a 5 year service agreement. The service agreement was about $300 and the repairs were all covered. There was only 3 months left on the service agreement when the repairs were needed. I renewed the service agreement for another 3 years. Some things are so complex that they almost guarantee problems. Just make sure the service agreement will cover all the problems because even small problems can lead to a lot of hours($$$) of diagnosis time.
People *never* seem to read the exclusion clauses and then become enraged when their NAV or onboard computer isn't covered.
It seems, from what I've read, that if one could get a reasonably priced policy for just electrical items on a German car it would make sense. I doubt if any such policy exists and you would really have to read the small print on that one.
* Maintenance services and parts (refer to coverage agreement)
* Glass
* Lenses
* Sealed beams
* Light bulbs
* Tires
* Components not installed by the vehicle manufacturer
* Bumpers
* Sheet metal
* Body panels and parts
* Carpet
* Hinges
* Trim
* Upholstery
* Convertible or vinyl tops
* Molding or bright metal
* Air and water leaks
* Wind noise
* Odors
* Weather-strips
* Squeaks
* Rattles
* Paint
* Rust
* Carburetor
* Contaminated fuel system
* Exhaust system
* Catalytic converter
* Brake drums/rotors
* Brake pads/shoes
* Shock absorbers
* Batteries
* Spark plugs and wires
* Manual clutch disc
I think the Isuzu pickup truck sometime in the late 90s was the last carburetor in the US...
Well you get the idea anyway....
I don't think I'd get an extended warranty on a TDI.
But I would definitely NOT buy a new one due to the many reports of HPFP failures not always being covered by warranty, costing the owner $6000 to $10000 in repair bills.
Not suprised, but not covering this one would scare me if I bought it for a 2009 or newer VW TDI.
"Contaminated fuel system"
I think this whole HPFP story needs a more thorough research.
From what I can gather, it's the VW pump that fails and "contaminates" the system---unless American gas stations are selling acid instead of diesel fuel....? :P
What do you all think of this comment I picked up from a TDI forum:
"Dealership in NJ immediately said I had GAS on my fuel.
Presented a bill for 6607 dollars. I called Customer Care many times trying to convince them that there was no GAS in my car after having the in ground tanks tested at both stations where I filled up with Diesel. They refused to consider there was no "outside influence" that caused the entire fuel system to fail. There were NO other problems reported to either station.
I now have proof from the NC ag dept fuel testing lab that there was no GAS in the sample of fuel removed from my tank. Called the service manager in NJ. His response.. " we're not chemists here, your fuel was contaminated"."
What if I sold a type of RV/Camper that was higher than 95% of USA height clearances under freeways? Do we blame the underpass or the driver?
That's about where I am on this. Whether they admit this or not...or if it's even the case...it's certainly a question.