MAZDASPEED Mazda6

slammie

I think the under 25 crowd is gunning for an Evo or STI or WRX, not the MS6. The MS6 is an understated sedan with few cues, which I think appeals to the mid 30's crowd. Secondly, the car is manufactured entirely in Japan, so that should put your mind at rest in terms of reliability, especially in comparison to a BMW.

BTW, I think there are only two really good buys out there for folks looking for a high performance 4-door sedan on the cheap. The Dodge Charger RT if you can tolerate an automatic tranny or the MS6.

I'll be purchasing the MS6 very soon!

breld

Got the Feb issue of Car & Driver yesterday, and the cover story is a comparison test of $30k sport sedans. I've been hoping they'd do this sort of test - a comparison of cars that excite me and I can afford.

If you haven't picked up a copy yet, the players are the Pontiac G6 GTP, Jetta GLI, TSX, Accord V6 6-speed and the Mazdaspeed 6.

I was surprised by the results - when I saw the cover, I figured the MS6 would come out 1st, with the TSX and Jetta following. As it turned out, they picked the MS6 4th, just ahead of the G6. The Jetta claimed first, with the Accord in second and TSX finishing up in third.

Their overall complaint on the MS6 was a lack of refinement, namely interior appointments and engine noise at highway speeds. It was the fastest, at 5.4 sec to 60. The Accord was second fastest to 60, at 5.9 sec.

Anyway - comparison tests only mean so much (I can say that since my car only came in 3rd ).

wrxdonkey

My family has collectively owned aboout 6 mazdas over the past 10 years, an mx3, 626, rx-8, mazda 3, and mazda 6... the last three are brand new models, and the owners are quite happy. Very little maintenance has been required on any of these vehicles (the mx3 and 626 were driven for 6+ years each).

The only complaint to date for any of the owners of these cars is the fact that the RX-8's EPA city and highway mileage are grossly overstated, as the car gets 12-15mpg regardless of how the car is driven.

I'm 24, and I just test drove the speed6, while I found it enjoyable, I found the performance of the STI to be far more alluring. While I much prefer the refined interior of the speed6 and the far more sublime exterior styling, I have decided to purchase the STI. I test drove them back to back, and that was all it took to cement my decision to purchase the STI (regardless of the styling, and the fact that it sends females running - in the opposite direction).

If it's even remotely an option for you, you should test drive the STI (and make sure you find a twisty road or two to take it on).

mz6greyghost

- I am mid-30's, will I be the only person under 25 driving this car?

Doubt it. If I were in the market, the MS6 would be on my VERY short list, and I'll be 30 in a few months.

The MS6, IMO, is for a driver that'd love the feeling and performance of an EVO or STI, but either need the extra room of four adult-sized seats (Something the EVO and STI can't claim), or doesn't like the hardcore ride or noise. The MS6 will be more attractive to the crowd OVER 25, rather than under.

- Are Mazda's reliable? Will this one be with a turbo engine?

Mazda in general makes a fairly reliable vehicle. Granted, you take a chance with ALL new car purchases, whether it's a Mazda or Honda. The engine is a turbo 4-cyl (2.3 L, 274 HP) and will be used in other Mazda applications (including the upcoming CX-7).

- Anyway around the slightly cheesy antenna?

There are a few aftermarket companies that sell "stubby" antennas that fit the MS6. Of course, since the antenna is shorter (anywhere from 2"-6" lengths are available), your radio reception will suffer.

mz6greyghost

This comparo from C&D is seriously flawed, as I've mentioned before. The MS6 was 4th because they tested a sport model, which is basically a stripped model. Had they ponied up for a GT, with standard leather, and optional moonroof and navigation system, the complaints about the interior appointments would disappear. As far as engine noise is concerned, a MS6 owner would GLADLY deal with the engine noise, knowing that the lack of sound insulation saves a few pounds. In general, the MS6 owner doesn't care about interior appointments, and would sacrifice it for the performance the MS6 offers.

C&D should've tested the 6S Grand Touring or Grand Sport. The V6 with 5-speed manual wouldn't beat the Accord V6, but would keep up with the rest of the pack. With it's great handling, as well as the "important" leather, moonroof, and nicer interior appointments than the "stripped" MS6, the 6S would've easily placed higher in the ranks, at least sending the TSX down to 4th...

The comparo also shows me how soft the C&D editors have gotten in their old age. Preferring a better interior than a turbo 4-cyl with AWD? Come on, were testing sport sedans, not a Buick!

keymaster1

I picked up my MS6 on Friday. Thought I'd share some initial impressions. I may be he oldest MS6 driver ou there, upper 30s. I needed a car that could fit 3 small kids, have all weather capability and still be fun/quick. I traded a Acura RSX-S on the Mazda. I got black GT, SR, Nav.
I have put about 350 miles on it ovefr weekend, with alot of wet driving.
Just someof my misc. ramblings for what they are worth..
--Exterior- love the black, sort of has some grayish overtones to it in some lighting. but it does get dirty fast. I'll be cleaning my new baby often. I like the understated lines. More mature than Legacy GT. 4 projectors in front look way cool.
--Interior- The fit and finish seem to be very good. no obvious problems. seats are pretty comfortable although, there is a seam in front seat that you can feel pretty easily. all controls work well. the dealer activated the auto lock for me, but in doing so, inactivated all the drivervpower window controls. he faxed me the fix so no furhtur problems. They seem to not totally know the details about all the bells and whistles in the car as yet.
There is room for my kids in the back so that requirement is met. No 1 touch open on the Sunroof. knid of weird.
Driving impressions- I had the dealer swap out the summere tires for Pirelli PZero Neros. Got them from tire rack and actually made money on the deal. no charge for installation. they seem a little quieter than the original tires with no obvious loss of preformance as yet. no slippage in heavy rain whatsoever.
The steering is looser than i remember on my test drive. That was a sport model. I don't know if there if inter car variability or that is unigue to the GT. The steering does tighten up during cornering, but there is more play in the straight line than I like. Is the adjustable??
Car is very quick. only lag is in 2nd at 1000-2000 rpm, above this it pulls very well. Very put together chassis. Haven't been able to get it to misstep yet. Very stable at speed. This car is going to get me in trouble. Keeping it below 80 on interstate is going to be difficult.(w/o kidz)
Shifter is not as smooth as my Acura's but better thatn my previous Audi. throws could be a little shorter, but not by much.
When the wife rode in it , she thought it drove and sounded alot like her 530i. I think it is much tighter , but from the passenger seat you may not be able to tell.
first tank of gas 20 mpg. gauge is odd, it read less than a quarter tank, but only took 10 gallons to fill it. hopefully this will sort itself out.

the keyless entry system works very well. it is growing on me everyday. the card fits in my wallet and thus far it only has trouble when multiple doors are opening and closing at once, locks best when the driver door is the last to close.

So far I think I made the right choice. other options were TL(too old), 330xi(too small), S4(too $$), and Leg GT(too racer). car if fun, fast , refined. Easy to take as a every day driver, but can tear it up when needed. I think mazda has a great commodity on its hands but I think it is going to speak to only a small audience. All my gear head friends love it and know all about it, everyone else is saying A mazda what??
anyway, i got it for me , if they don't appreciate it, their loss.
once i get it on some snow , i'll let you know how the all seasons and awd combine.
thanks for listening

ccletzgo

I like the Black Cherry, but I think it needs tan interior.

Black and Black looks good, but Black Cherry should have tan.

I loved it on the RX8.

gee35coupe

Is how short the gearing is in the MS6. It just seems that a 2.3L engine would start to get a bit intrusive at anything above 70mph. In fact the test shows it the have the noisiest cruising db in the test. The rolling start test shows that the MS6 might even get toasted by the Accord V6 if you get caught off boost leaving the red light.

I think when you look at all the data, the MS6 placed correctly in the comparison. It's not "full time" AWD, it's not all that luxurious, and the price isn't all that competitive. It's in some wierd zone all by itself.

ateixeira

Interesting, I read that the Speed6 was being made in Japan. I wonder if that'll help keep it more reliable than the US-made ones, or if there's even a difference nowadays.

The 3s is more reliable than the 6i, for instance, even sharing the same powertrain.

-juice

blueguydotcom

Gee, the motor trend test mentions the 3rd shift to get to 60 as one of the main reasons the car has only a sub 6 second 0-60 (I'd expect mid to low 5s). Kinda weird for Mazda to make that decision.

ateixeira

C&D quoted 5.4s, though. Maybe they exceeded redline slightly to do that? Or the driver was a lot more skilled?

-juice

kronogoose

Keymaster:

Congrats and thanks for the update.

Do you know what the RPMs are at 80 MPH? How is the noise level at that speed? Does the accelerator seem touchy? Is the MSP6 a comfortable highway cruiser?

I personally would prefer that people don't know what a Speed6 is. It just makes it more of a sleeper!

Thanks,

Greg

gee35coupe

22.7/1000 RPM. That put it alarmingly close to 4000 rpm at 80mph for a 2.3L engine. And it was the loudest in the comparison in the 70mph cruise mode by 2 db.

mz6greyghost

C&D quoted 5.4s, though. Maybe they exceeded redline slightly to do that?

C&D always shifts at redline, so chances are it's a combination of the car and driver. The model C&D tested is the Sport, which doesn't include options such as moonroof, leather, navigation system, etc., unlike the Grand Sport models tested by the other publications. The weight savings will contribute a few tenths, as well as driver skill, which probably means spooling the revs to 3-4K RPM and dropping the clutch.

gee35coupe

"spooling the revs to 3-4K RPM and dropping the clutch."

That's why they included the rolling start statistic. It shows a more "real world" number.

camarillobrill

is it definitely not avail on the ms6? I know you can get black cherry on tan with the m6.

camarillobrill

it doesnt appear that there is a single class that they can compare this car to. None of those tested have the power #'s the ms6 puts out.

blueguydotcom

Is that the stat where they try to accelerate from top gear?

I always get a laugh when they show acceleration from 60-80 in top gear.

ccletzgo

no tan interior. The RX 8 shinka looked real nice with black cherry mica and tan ....... The speed 6 has a funky black and white interior or black.....

gee35coupe

Nope...It's a stat where they go measure max acceleration from 5-60 mph. It's almost an idle-start to 60. The Accord was the fastest in that test. The peaky engined TSX was the slowest. IMHO it shows the fastest you can go in the car without risking burning out the clutch or shocking the driveline.

It shows it's not all about the power numbers. The Mazda is 200 pounds heavier than all of the cars other than the G6.

blueguydotcom

t's a stat hwhere they go measure max acceleration from 5-60.

Just put the car in first and go...what's the big deal?

callmedrfill

In response to recent posts:

- I think the 6 is the best looking car in that test.

- C&D picked the right trim. If the "Sport" drops the ball at over $28k, adding more lux to the package only makes it more expensive, over $30k, which this test was not about.

- The G6 and Accord are cavernous compared to the 6speed.

- The Evo has acres more legroom IN BACK than the 6, as well. I am 6'4", so I've checked. Even money, I'd take the Evo.

DrFill

gee35coupe

When you have a high pressure turbo or a very highly tuned 4 cylinder you have more power at the top end of the tach. The bottom end is "soft" as they say. If you "just put it in first and go" you nd up with a car like the S2000 that has very weak power until the tach passes a certain RPM where the power all of a sudden "comes on". That is why the TSX and M6 had the shortest gearing in the test. Both engine are kinda "peaky". The TSX moreso. But if you "put in first and go" in the M6 without a moderately high RPM clutch dump, you aren't gonna get anywhere near the all-conquering get-up-and-go.

keymaster1

The car is suprisingly quiet on the highway. Much more so than the rsx it replaced. RPM less than 3000 at 80. Steering is a little light as i mentioned so there is a bit of wandering if not paying attention. I have found myself cruising in fifth without knowing it, 5 and 6 are both very quiet even at speed. in fifth it still has tons of torque available and pulls well.
I think it is not really comparable to WRK or evo as above people are trying to do. it is more of a tourer than an all out sports sedan. it will handle the back roadfs well when needed but I don't know if that was its design mission.
definately stealthy. Only one speed label on entire car. if you didn't know what to look for, you coluldn't tell wht it really does.

aviboy97

The 3s is more reliable than the 6i, for instance, even sharing the same powertrain

This might be due to the fact that the 3's powertrain is made in Japan, and the 6i's engine is made in Mexico. However, since the engine design is the same, there should not be any variance in reliability. Consumer Reports placed the 2006 Mazda6i on its recommended list.

blueguydotcom

Not buying that. Again gearing. My car has less torque and less hp than the speed6, yet from first (which is good to about 25-30 mph) it'll take off at five mph like it was shot out of a cannon.

FWIW, keep a TSX over 4k rpm (good 3k of tach) and it'll run fine.

mz6greyghost

It's a combination of both engine tuning and gearing. You can get away with taller gearing with an engine that produces stump-pulling torque, but not with an engine with a higher-rev powerband. In turn, shorter gearing doesn't work for torque monsters, because you'll get next to NO power when it's time to pass at highway speeds. It's just a matter of getting the engine and gearing combination just right to get good acceleration in all revs, while still pulling quickly off the line, and getting decent gas mileage in cruising mode.

blueguydotcom

because you'll get next to NO power when it's time to pass at highway speeds.

Uh, that's why you buy a manual...change gears to pass people.

gee35coupe

"RPM less than 3000 at 80"???

How can that be. Are you talking about the MS6? According to the tests 3000 RPM is right about 66mph.

I agree with you BGDC. I bought a manual to shift gears. I have no problem dropping down a gear. But I would like a nice tall top gear for steady state high speed cruising.

spidaman

When I test drove the MS6 sport, tach read about 3K at 80 mph. I didn't notice any significant tach twitch when shifting from gear 5 to 6 and back.

Regards,

Spida

keymaster1

I didn't specifically note down tach numbers at speed. But from what I remember from yesterdays highway drive, at around 80 (maybe a touch less), tach was 28-2900 in 6th, 3200 in fifth.

I do agree that shifting is what we buy these things for. This car pulls OK in sixth gear, but it is not immediate. Drop down to fifth and it is a totally different beast. 80 to 95 is lightning quick in fifth.

Most manual transmission cars do relatively poorer in the 50-70mph accel tests when compared to the automatic counterparts because the testing is set up to not allow for a manual downshift. The tests are not really indicative of what the car is capable of since in real world, you would downshift to maximize performance.

blueguydotcom

The Ms6 was at ~4k rpm when traveling at 85-90. IMHO, that's much to high for comfortable freeway cruising.

evaddave

> My car has less torque and less hp than the speed6

Your car has less peak torque and peak horsepower than the speed6, but given that you have an inline-6, your torque curve is probably flatter, meaning you have more torque available at low RPMs.

gee35coupe

That's what the C@D comparo showed. The MS6 had the highest noise levels at the 70mph cruise speed.

blueguydotcom

eva, i beg to differ. my car has pretty much zero torque below 4k rpm. like honda's engines, bmw's inline 6s are a gutless wonders until you get the revs up.

the 2.3 of the mazdaspeed6 may not have the flat torque curve of the audi/VW 2.0T but it's still a far meatier curve than what I put up with daily.

evaddave

Here's what I was basing my statements on. Sorry for omitting the reference in my first post. Dyno chart. Maybe that chart isn't right for your car; it looked close to me. It looks pretty flat from 2K onward.

That's only half the story, too. Gearing multiplies torque, so maybe you've got a great 1st gear ratio.

-Dave

blueguydotcom

Actually it's not really near mine...my car (with Performance Package) came with different headers, cams, ecu, exhaust, 6 speed, different differential, different gearing from a normal 330i. Regardless of the "dyno" i drive one daily and drive my bro-in-law's 325i quite a bit, neither car has anything approaching a flat torque curve. I'm intimately familiar with a flat torque curve as I owned a 1.8T. There's no comparing the two as you must jump on a BMW and get it stratospheric if you hope to get any power, while a good light pressure turbo set up provides constant, linear power.

I prefer the feel of a good turbo.

gee35coupe

Looks like the Bimmer has a pretty level curve. Considering that's there are two dynos there, one of them mildly modded, it looks like that engine is pretty tractible. "Feel" and actual numbers can differ.

ccletzgo

I'll share. I paid 3K below MSRP..........GT fully loaded.
I cant believe a dealer would ask 5K over MSRP....and I cant believe some one would pay that. Go some where else.

mazda6s

"The Ms6 was at ~4k rpm when traveling at 85-90. IMHO, that's much to high for comfortable freeway cruising."

Freeway cruising at 85-90? :surprise:

evaddave

BGDC, I'm all confused now. :confuse:
Earlier you said, referring to your own car, "it'll take off at five mph like it was shot out of a cannon."
Now you say, "you must jump on a BMW and get it stratospheric if you hope to get any power."

I'm so confused that I've forgotten my original reason for replying to you. (and I'm too lazy to scroll back to remember.)

My only experience with a 1.8T, or any turbo for that matter, was in a loaner New Beetle with an automatic. I learned about turbo lag in that car. Step on the gas, and by the time the car got around to doing something, it was too late, and time to hit the brakes.

keymaster1

I hope these links to pictures work as they can put to rest any furthur discussion regarding highway RPM in Mazdaspeed 6.
these are in 6th gear, at stable speed, on a flat highway.
as I posted earlier, 3000 @ 80mph. I included 70 and 90 mph for comparison.
">link title

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/Keymaster1/CIMG0050.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/Keymaster1/CIMG0051.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c196/Keymaster1/CIMG0052.jpg

Oh, Texas making it close. gotta go

qddave

Hey gee, I'm not disputing your claim, just adding some hopefully useful info. Decibels are a measure of sound level, but usually do not indicate how the sound is heard. Where I worked, we always measured sound in sones. Sones are numerical representations of how sound is perceived. So, you could actually have two different sounds (pitch/frequency/tone) with the same dB level but one is perceived as louder. Just because the sound level of one car is measured a few dB higher than another may not mean it's actually louder in that car.

blueguydotcom

Freeway cruising at 85-90?

yes. Usually average around 95-100 on long trips - say to Vegas or to SF/Sac from LA/San Diego.

blueguydotcom

'm so confused that I've forgotten my original reason for replying to you. (and I'm too lazy to scroll back to remember.)

Yes that's true. I slip it into 1st as I'm rolling lights and then hit it WOT with the clutch in and let'er out at around 3500-4k rpm. Like I said, below 4k, I have minivans and escorts blasting by me. Not sure where the myth of linear power comes from but having driven e46s and e90s, I'm only impressed with the semi-smoothness of BMW's engines. Beyond that...

My only experience with a 1.8T, or any turbo for that matter, was in a loaner New Beetle with an automatic.

You can stop there. It was an automatic, ie no control over the engine. Keep a 1.8T over 2k, much as you would a bmw engine over 4k or a honda over 4k and you've got power on tap.

I learned about turbo lag in that car. Step on the gas, and by the time the car got around to doing something, it was too late, and time to hit the brakes.

Around town that engine was a blast for me. Of course, on the freeway VW in the early part of the 21st century was still gearing for cities, so freeway drives killed mileage. Now they've opened their eyes to tall 6th gears.

blueguydotcom

Key so at 100 the car is turning 4k? Maybe that's what i remember from my test drive. I just remember thinking the engine was working too hard.

whipped95

I'm am just suprised as to how it placed. C&D wrote it up like it was the best performer of the pack but due to the lack up upscale interior gave it 4th. I do agree with them on why there isn't a sunroof included in the deal. I stopped by a dealership to look at the MS6, there were 3 all without sunroof, maybe you don't want a sunroof when you're at sub 6 second 0-60 times? I don't know. It's a great looking car IMO, I owned a 6i last year and traded it for a Mazda5 touring so I don't see myself going back into a six anytime soon. If anything I'll hold out for a Mazdaspeed 3 for myself which I'm sure will be a blast. Anyone know if the MS3 will be AWD? I really like the Mazda Kabura concept, looks really sharp. We'll see how it looks at the auto show.

keymaster1

i have only had it to 100 a couple of times and then only in short bursts as traffic conditions around here really don't lend themnselves to that kind of speed in long stretches.
around 4000 rpm about right. It wasn't too loud, but as most 4 cyls do, starts to become a little buzzy. Really not a big deal for me as most of my highway driving is between 70-90 and car seems very happy around at those speeds.
engine doesn't seem to be working tht hard, esp given the large amounts of torque still available with a drop to fifth at 80.

mz6greyghost

Anyone know if the MS3 will be AWD?

As of right now, the MS3 is planned as being FWD only.

gee35coupe

I can deal with a 3000 RPM 80. What's the oil change interval?