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Comments
Modock
I'm just trying real hard to keep distinct my frustration with the dealership experience from the car itself.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
Sticker is the MSRP (suggested retail), I won't pay more than 1k over dealer invoice (assuming no rebates or incentives are available to dealer or customer). Even then I feel like 1k is too much to give a dealership.
But this markup business, yikes. Did they not learn with the '90 Miata? People don't come back to those dealers.
I wonder if he was just saying that to play up the value of the vehicle. It won't be that rare, so only a sucker would pay extra IMO.
-juice
When I inquired about the dealer markup, the manager replied "this is not an MSRP car." I couldn't agree more, but I think he and I are going in opposite directions with our thoughts. And I've only visited the one dealership so far regarding the MS6 - the other ones in town may not have this sort of mark-up.
I pass this dealership everyday going to and from work. It'll be interesting to see how long this particular MS6 sits. I was mildly interested in a used RX-8 they had a few months back, and I noticed it sitting on their lot week after week, with the advertised price on the windshield steadily decreasing.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
I'm aware of the MSRP, and since the MS6 is indeed new and relatively rare, a dealer asking MSRP and isn't willing to budge is certainly not out of the question. My point was that NO car is worth paying a mark-up for, especially if other dealers are NOT doing mark-ups. I'd never pay MSRP myself, knowing that I'd be able to get a better deal in 6 months.
For my 6, I was able to negotiate down to $200 over invoice, not including the rebates or trade-in. I probably could've done better, but I'm very happy with the price I paid. If I was looking at a MS6, MSRP would be out of the question, but due to the 5000 or so being sent to the US this year, I could try for invoice, but I'd be lucky to get close to $1.5-2K over...
I believe it's all in the dealer. Some are easy to deal with, and some are simply stubborn and impossible. It's just a matter of finding the right one and getting the deal that you're happy with.
Yes it is. It's a mazda. And it's not rare. 5k units is more than 5% of the Mazda6s made. That's not rare.
If I was looking at a MS6, MSRP would be out of the question, but due to the 5000 or so being sent to the US this year, I could try for invoice, but I'd be lucky to get close to $1.5-2K over...
By may of 06 I bet there will be 2k rebate money on the mazdaspeed6. Heck the new ones came with rebate money - opt for the lease and you got 1500-2k off sticker. Then buy out the lease.
Without further delay:
C&D (MS6 base)
0-60 mph: 5.4 seconds
1/4 mile: 14.0 sec @ 99 MPH
skidpad: 0.87 g
M/T (MS6 GT)
0-60 mph: 5.8 seconds
1/4 mile: 14.3 sec @ 96 MPH
skidpad: 0.87 g
0-60 mph: 6.0 sec
1/4 mile: 14.2 sec @ 95.7 mph
60-0 braking: 122 feet
80-0 braking: 217 feet
skidpad: 0.83 g
60 mph in top gear: 2400 RPM
One more interesting note: The road test was done using 91-octane gasoline, which was the highest grade they could get, and lower than the 93-octane Mazda recommends...
It's a quick darn car. It just doesn't feel it.
They do nothing for their profit and offer no value add-ons. They stand as an impediment to a purchase. If I saw value in a dealership, then the profit wouldn't be too much of an issue. But for simply acting as a stopping point between the manufacturer and my home, I believe a dealership is entitled to $200-300 over their cost.
As a capitalist, I believe they should try to get as much as they can for a car. That's what makes the world go round. As a buyer I see dealers as worthless bloodsuckers who provide nothing beyond grief.
I'd like to see a model like they have in other countries. A storefront keeps several versions of each vehicle on hand. Prospective buyers call ahead and arrange a time slot for test driving. They show up, provide license and insurance info. They get the car for 30 minutes. If they like the car they place an order and the car is taken from a distribution center and/or built to order for the buyer.
That's the ideal and hopefully one day it will be a reality. no salespeople, no giant car lots, no "what do I have to do today" junk from some guy who hasn't even taken the time to learn about the products he's selling.
Ok, so how many cars per month would a dealer have to move to support a manager, at least 3 sales staff, the guys that wash the cars and prep them, the mortgage/lease for the parcel, lights, AC, taxes, etc.
Sure, I want to be the guy too that only pays $200 dealer profit. Let everyone else pay $1000+ per vehicle so that I can have good career people at the dealership.
Not sure what business you are in, don't really care, but the USA isn't China or India and it takes profit to keep good people on board.
John
That is a very interesting thought. I guess you can make that argument for just about every industry in this country. Why buy stock from a broker? Why can't the company selling it just sell it to you? Why buy insurance from an agency? Just buy it from the company it's self (with some you can) Why buy grocery's from a grocery store? Just buy the product straight from the manufacturer? ( which is also possible at outlets, but, are very rare..at least where i live) There are many more, but, I think you know where I'm going with this.
It seems everyone at some point, including myself, has been skeptical or has hated going to, and purchasing a vehicle from a dealership. But, that's how this country runs. That's how this economy works. So, that brings us back to as consumers, we are entitled to the best deal, on anything, that we may purchase.
I guess you really do not know how a dealership operates. There is a lot of behind the scenes work that does go on just to get you the car. i.e PDI, prep, finance, demonstration, etc. You are out of your mind if you think any manufacturer is going to take all of that responsibility on themselves! Which they would have to do if there were no dealerships...just store fronts
Not sure what business you are in, don't really care, but the USA isn't China or India and it takes profit to keep good people on board.
good people aren't needed. salespeople really aren't for that matter. the salesperson stands in the way of the purchase...he does not assist with the process. the model I suggested is the one that appeals to me and most of my peer group. I help my friends buy cars expressly because of salespeople. If my friens/family could simply visit dealerships and test the cars they're interested in, then they wouldn't have the need for me to accompany them and act as a buffer to all the lies and pressure coming from salesmen.
All of that can be handled from a disribution center. The finance, prep, pdi are all possible from one location. As for demonstration, it's unneeded as the test drive can reveal everything buyer really needs to know.
A store front would allow for test drives. A service center would allow for repairs. The need for salespeople has passed. You can order the car, handle all financing remotely and have the car delivered.
Do you have any idea how hard it is to get some people financed, and that there are multiple banks that are used for finance, not just the manufacturers credit? Let's take Mazda for example. Do you think if there was a Mazda distribution center, and Mazda did not approve a certain buyer, that Mazda then would try another bank that may buy them? Now, why would they go out of there way to give someone else their business? That makes no sense. And if they were to do that, they would have to have a staff similar to what you find at a dealership.
Now, as for salespeople being "useless".....oh boy....ok, let's talk about that. OK, a customer comes and drives a Mazda at a store front. They like it. They also test drove a Honda at another store front. They think both are the same, because they have not been educated on the car. Now, they are on the fritz on what to buy. So, they make a snap decision to buy the Honda. Hmmm...it seems Mazda just lost a sale. Now, why did this happen? Let's see...there was no one there to educate the buyer on how their car is different, or how the Mazda may fit that persons needs better then the Honda. So, if you think sales people are useless, you are wrong. It is in every manufactureres best interest to have knowledgable people pushing their product so the company can profit. If the company profits, then so does everyone who works for them.
Now, I don't think it's possible to know everything the manufacturer has placed in the vehicle on a test drive with no one to show you were anyhting is, or which systems do what. That was possible in the 1950's, but, not now. There is so much technology in cars today, a 30 min test drive by yourself with no instruction cannot reveal everything that car has to offer...with any make or model.
When joe buyer places his order he chooses his options: Cash, outside credit, manufacturer's credit, mix. The system run his numbers and discover FOMOCO won't finance him. The system can then hit up other lenders and come back with offers to the buyer, doing exactly as dealerships do: tacking on a point or two. The buyer picks the offer and moves on.
Now, why would they go out of there way to give someone else their business? That makes no sense. And if they were to do that, they would have to have a staff similar to what you find at a dealership.
No staff is needed - this can all be automated just as it with insurance and home loans. The finance staff at a dealership is around only because dealers use them to upsell people on garbage (alarms, undercoating, teflon, etf). Again, there's no reason Mazda can't automate the loan process and mark up the loan from the buy rate. It's what dealers do every day.
Now, as for salespeople being "useless".....oh boy....ok, let's talk about that. OK, a customer comes and drives a Mazda at a store front. They like it. They also test drove a Honda at another store front. They think both are the same, because they have not been educated on the car. Now, they are on the fritz on what to buy. So, they make a snap decision to buy the Honda. Hmmm...it seems Mazda just lost a sale. Now, why did this happen? Let's see...there was no one there to educate the buyer on how their car is different, or how the Mazda may fit that persons needs better then the Honda.
Yeah a salesperson educated someone. No, a salesperson lied and pressured a buyer into making a decision. I love to sit back at dealerships and just listen to the mendacious staff. They're a hoot.
It is in every manufactureres best interest to have knowledgable people pushing their product so the company can profit.
That rarely happens. I've come across 3 salespeople I thought were educated fully on their own products - one at BMW, one at Infiniti, one at Lexus. That's over my life!
There is so much technology in cars today, a 30 min test drive by yourself with no instruction cannot reveal everything that car has to offer...with any make or model.
Wow, sounds like a salesperson talking. Look at this neat feature. See how the light goes on when you open the vanity mirror? this is how you lower the back seats. It's really quite comical to see them run through stuff that's obvious and/or listed in the manual. In the software industry we have a saying: RTFM. Read the freaking manual.
I do love the comfort access (keyless go) system. I look forward to that on my next car.
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Please get your facts straight before you type. :P
Wow, sounds like a salesperson talking
Wrong again, I'm not going to even waste my time typing to someone who's ideals are far from a possible reality. Although, interesting in theory, but, thats as far as it goes. But, I do wish you luck with them.
-juice
Besides Mazda revising the final drive, I knew that they were being VERY conservative with performance numbers. After all, they don't want people to see that a family sedan is quicker than their flagship sports car (the RX-8).
That'll change though... A MS RX-8 is rumored to be in the works, after the MS3 is released...
-juice
It's unrelated but several of my rental properties I've bought using low documentation loans...feed in the income, ssn, credit scores and out pops the result on the home loan. It's as easy as can be. same with home/car insurance - fill out the form online and get a response instantly. Car loans...again, fill out online and get a real time response. Shrug.
As for finance people at dealerships, they're the last batch of vipers unsuspecting buyers meet. At that point the finance people play the upsell games with junk like lojack, undercoating, alarms and of course there's always the jacking up of loan rates to feed the dealer a steady stream of unearned income.
You are (or were) involved in the car industry in some measure it seems as you're so quick to defend a morally bankrupt and utterly useless dinosaur known as the car dealership.
Perhaps you've been going to the wrong individual dealerships, because I've had a few rewarding experiences more recently, after some ugly ones earlier.
-juice
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I think a MS RX-8 would be neat, hopefully with a twin turbo and 300+ HP. But, the RX-8 has been slow selling, so who know 's. Also, by the time it were to come out (if it comes out) I'm pretty sure there will be a body style change by then. I guess we will have to wait and see!
I've been looking for info about an upgraded RX-8, either a MS version, or just a standard horsepower increase. What do you know about it? Where did you hear this? Thanks for the help! I'm trying to make a final decision on a car purchase.
JOE
And, in response to an earlier post, I am not one who believes dealerships should not make reasonable profits. I just don't think the MS6 will be demanding MSRP+ for very long, and there's a fine line between maximixing your profit opportunity and gouging those early customers.
So, speedexpert - care to share how much above or below MSRP you paid?
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2024 Corvette - 2024 BMW X5 - 2023 Tesla Model Y
So, speedexpert - care to share how much above or below MSRP you paid?
I work for a Mazda dealership in CT, and I can say honestly about the 4 MS6's we have sold, we have gotten MSRP. One we sold with $300 off MSRP because he has purchased a few car's from us. As for a "market adjustment", or mark-up, we though about doing that, but, in reality, we realized that it won't fly. It was our opinion that someone interested in this vehicle would see the mark-up, walk away, and purchase the car from another dealer. We are not about to lose a customer for a pointless mark-up we most likely will never get.
I think with the second wave of MS6's coming in the spring/summer will most likely sell for MSRP. Well, we will try for it anyway. Discounting the car will be common come fall, as the year ends. But hey, this is the car business, you can never predict the car business.
There is a HP increase (212) for the Mazda RX-8, but only for the 6-speed automatic :mad: As for the 6-speed manual, no HP increase. Mazda has said there were a few changes to the vehicle as well, but will be released closer to the launch date (01/06)
That does not shock me. We had a customer trade in his 06' STi last week, that he purchased from our Subaru store in september, because he was getting 15mpg...or so he says. So, he read about the MS6, saw Mazda was claiming 25mpg. I think we will be hearing from him pretty soon. I think you will be lucky to get 20mpg. But, I guess that depends how you drive the car.
The RX-8 is pretty well known for gobbling gas.
Aviboy97 is correct. The HP increase will be only for the automatic, but considering that the current 6-speed manual makes 238 HP, while the current auto only gets 197, the HP bump is LOOOOOONG overdue! The '05s are still in stock, and the '06s will arrive when the HP increase occurs, as well as a bunch of detail changes, which Mazda is being VERY tight-lipped about (as usual).
The RX-8 is not without it's quirks as well. Yes, the gas mileage isn't very good, with readings as low as 15-16 MPG if you're really pushing it. It's a rotary, which means that weekly oil checks are mandatory (a good idea with ANY car), and using a quart or more between oil changes is actually pretty common. Check out the Mazda RX-8 forum here on Edmunds if you'd like to learn more.
Having driven a few of them, I can honestly say that the drive is without equal, especially with the manual. It may be low on low-end torque, but the rotary pulls nicely as revs build. The rotary screams beautifully at speed, and the handling is so balanced, so nimble, that you almost feel like one with the car.
For me, it'd be a perfect weekend cruiser/auto-crosser (if I had the $$$$), while I'd keep the MS6 as my daily driver! :shades:
If they even ask about mileage, they're barking up the wrong tree.
-juice
I'll keep you posted as process goes through with impressions on how car does as everyday driver.
I've seen two different '06 6 sedans (non-MS6) with that color, and I like it. Since the Steel Gray is gone, and the Tungsten is too light for my tastes, if I stick with a 6 for my next car, Black Cherry it is!
If the MS6 is still there, I'll take it off your hands for you, if you can keep my current payments and the term the same...
You are thinking of the Dark Cherry on the regular M6. The MS6 is Black Cherry Mica. When Mazda released the color options for 06, they had us all here confused because the two colors are close in name, but very different in color. The MS6 does not share any exterior color with the regular production M6.
We have sold a few of the Dark Cherry M6's, and people seem to like that color. I, personally, do not, but, thats why there is variety!
I saw a black cherry on the lot, it has too much purple in it in some lighting. makes it a little too feminine for my tastes.
I like the MS6 in platinum or black. I am not sure if I could grow to love the white/black interior. initial impression was it wasn't me so I got plain black.
has anyone driven the MS6 in snow with the stock Bridgestones? I am tempted to swap them right away as there is still a lot of winter left here in Pennsylvania.
Too much purple for my tastes, although I'm sure it'll draw the attention of women buyers...