Acura RDX

ateixeira

The reason I like a rear bias is that the front tires are usually carrying the heaviest burden by far. Just look at tire wear, it's the front that always wear out first.

They carry about 60% of the weight, and do 100% of the steering.

Nice thing about AWD is how even tire wear usually is.

-juice

bodble2

"shifter/"urinal""

Good one! That's exactly what those things remind me of.

ateixeira

They're not the prettiest things, but I guess they are functional. I didn't like the one on the old Civic Si.

-juice

robertsmx

In RDX, the front/rear weight split is 52/48.

robertsmx

I would say Lexus RX is quite busy too.

Compare that to Acura RDX's.


I hope the "silvery" side trim in RDX is real aluminum though (like it is in TL and RL). I don't like silver plastic (RX has that, plus it appears, RDX has it around the knob in the center).

ateixeira

I don't think it was metal, at least it didn't feel like it.

Delete the joystick and I'd prefer the RDX, but as is I'd take the RX' interface. Ironically it also seems to have about 15 fewer buttons.

-juice

robertsmx

Counted about 35 buttons in both (including the large dial).

Is the side trim also plastinum?

varmint

Gotta reach back a few days.

The interior of the X3 is a bit dark for me. Personal thing. But I also don't like the surface texture they use on the dash. It has a heavy "grain pattern". Kinda like gator hyde. It's very durable, but the rubbery texture didn't thrill me.

On the other hand, the same heavy texture appears on the leather. This provided decent grip and I could tell it was much thicker hyde.

As for the pluminum mentioned in other posts, I think that might be a good idea (using plastic). The TL uses real metal, but has had problems with being dented easily. I recall that being an issue when it was first released. Though, to be honest, they may have addressed that in recent years and I simply haven't kept up.

varmint

The "cruising" power split for SH-AWD is 70/30 in favor of the front. I guess this would be considered the default.

It will reverse when you step on the gas, and, as described above, will distribute the full rear axle load to one wheel as determined by yaw sensors and such.

I don't think the AWD bias in this instance is going to be a significant factor in how well each vehicle performs. We're talking about SAVs, not sport coupes. Controlling body roll and how well the suspension handles transitions will be a more significant factor.

Also, with most drivers being familiar with understeer, I see a loss of traction upfront being less of a problem than one in the rear. Performance enthusiast who are familiar with RWD racing will know how to play with oversteer, but most drivers are not that experienced. For this reason, it has always been recommended that the tires with the most tread be mounted on the rear of a car during winter, even if rear wheels are not the ones being driven.

Another bias issue would be weight. According to the press materials, the RDX has a weight distribution of 52/48. (This is much better than the RL.) The 3.0 X3 is balanced at 50/50.

The folks at Infiniti would have us believe that the RDX actually has the advantage. When they designed the FM platform, they gave it a slight forward bias. The idea was that upon accelerating from a corner, acceleration squat would shift the weight to the rear giving it the 50/50 split under dynamic conditions rather than static.

I'm not sure I buy this theory from the Infiniti boys as that same weight in the nose would present problems when entering the turns. But, then again, the RDX would have one rear wheel being over-driven. The inward yaw moment could be enough to balance the vehicle out.

robertsmx

Never thought about the possibility of real aluminum getting dented, but pluminum is extremely prone to scratches. I noticed that in a rental Altima recently with only 6K miles on it.

bodble2

Does anyone know where's the parking brake lever on the RDX? Also, what's that slot-like opening on top of the dash? Does it house some warning lights, digital clock, temp reading??

wwest

Okay, first, let's exclude all of the newer AWD designs (SH-AWD, Lexus GS, Volvo XC-90, etc.) that dynamically allocate engine torque as a function of roadbed and driving conditions.

My 2001 AWD RX300 has a "fixed" F/R bias of 95/5 unless the VC clutch is somehow forced to come into play (NEVER happen{s}!) in which it might rise to 75/25 F/R. So, if the time should arise that I need to dedicate the front tires' contact patch to lateral control I best know how to get off the gas and maybe find the sweet spot where there is no, or very little, engine drive nor engine compression braking.

Or I could follow the current AAA advice and practice shifting quickly into neutral.

With my 1994 AWD Ford AeroStar, 30/70 F/R and 50/50 with rear wheelspin/slip, I don't need to worry as much about that particular matter.

Guess which one we take to the mountains for skiing in the wintertime...??

sockpuppet1969

I have two problems with the auto re-lock feature. One is that if you unlock it from too far away when approaching the car it sometimes re-locks before you get there. The other problem I have had is when I use the remote to lower the windows, giving the car time to cool on a hot day. When I approach the car afterwards, human nature is to reach in and manually unlock the door - at which time the alarm sounds! Really annoying.

varmint

Foot brake. Probably because it's cheap and easy. But is also leaves room in the center console for the enormous storage compartment.

bodble2

Oh..that's a bummer! Yes, probably because it's cheap and easy..but awkward to use. A nice electronic, unobtrusive one would have been nice, to go with the high-tech theme of the RDX.

rdxsteve

to see what the slot-like opening at the top of the dash is, check out the Acura website at

http://www.acura.com/

select RDX/Styling/Cockpit and select the arrow pointing to the slot like opening

you'll see it is the "subdisplay" containing info on time, audio, heating, venting and air conditioning (tech package only)

autoboy16

Someone was right. There is an ECHO in here. I i read that 70/30 power distribution one more time I think my head will explode. :mad: My gosh you people argue (i mean have such strong opinions) over the pettiest things like buttons and an I drive like knob... If this is such a problem then why does mercedes have one on the s class and bmw have them in almost every vehicle (3 5 6 7 x5 z4 m m6 m5 b7 and i think x3) including the entry level 1 series. If it was such a problem then why are all of them selling? The Rl and RDX have them too. Its like the push button start thing. They are on so many vehicles. Heres a list to name a few:

2007 Lexus IS, GS, RX, 2007 LS, 2007 Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon and prius, 2007 Nissan Altima and Maxima. Even s2000 from 2000!

I drive knobs and push button start is becoming a feature on many vehicles. For people who don't have it, get a pontiac G6/ Saturn AURA with it standard or buy an aftermarket remote start. Besides I see this little knob as a security device. How many bmw's do you know of that was stolen with I drive? Few people will steal a car with I drive because its so complicated. You people need to get a life and join the 21 century... Even with the $3.25 gas prices

wwest

The power distribution on the RDX is 70/30 when driving straight ahead at a relatively constant speed....

Anyone else hear that BOOM...?

bodble2

So you think thieves avoid BMWs because they couldn't figure out the iDrive? :confuse: Hmm....

autoboy16

It was just a joke! :sick: A :lemon: joke.

wwest

No, since not even the owners can figure it out most thieves are smart enough to know there is no market for a stolen one.

autoboy16

So apparently it was a joke to be taken seriously? :confuse:

Otherwise I have mixed feelings about i drive, push button start, and the rdx (since i never experienced any of them)

bodble2

"So apparently it was a joke to be taken seriously?"

But if a joke is taken seriously, is it still a joke? :confuse:

joknecht

New York Newsday's automobile editor is reporting that the production model of the RDX will have a manual transmission option when it comes out this summer. Has anyone else heard of this?

rdxsteve

Certainly haven't heard that on any of the RDX boards - that would be news. Do you have a link to the report?

anythngbutgm

Really? I doubt it... I mean, I really really doubt it :mad: . Would be one heck of a sneaky surprise on Acura's part.

ateixeira

Do it, the X3 and Forester XT need some company. Almost noone else (among entries with >200hp) offers one.

-juice

varmint

Word is the RDX's version of SH-AWD does not include the acceleration device found on the RL.

I'm still waiting for clarification, but it sounds like the system will still route 100% of rear wheel torque (70% of the total) to the outside wheel, but it does not have the capacity to over-drive that wheel.

ateixeira

Interesting, I wonder what the diff looks like on each and how much cost difference there would be. Seems like the RL allows slip.

-juice

varmint

Not sure what you mean about slip.

Here's a pic of the SH-AWD unit in the RL. Look at where the driveshaft meets the diff (past the joint where the cut-out begins). That's the acceleration device. Using some combination of gears, it provides mechanical advantage to the rear axle. It transforms the extra torque into extra speed, which gets sent to the outside wheel.

ateixeira

In this context I'm referring to slip as the difference in rotating speeds between one side of the axle and the other, i.e. the outer wheel travels a greater distance and the differential has to absorb that.

Slip is misleading, in this case, because it seems like they actually gear the difference in speeds. Neat.

-juice

varmint

Gotcha.

Yeah, the RL's differential forces "slip" by overdriving the outside wheel. In the RL, it can be overdriven by 5% vs the other wheels.

The RDX powers the outside wheel with a full dose of torque, but does not overdrive it.

ateixeira

So I guess the rear diff is passive, vs. active on the RL.

I can understand, though, they had to find a way to keep the costs down. If the RDX comes in priced at $33k for starters (a no-excuses price for this class), I'll be disappointed, otherwise I think it's understandable.

Subaru struggles with the same thing with VDC, i.e. their best AWD system only goes on the priciest models, most over $30 grand.

-juice

varmint

Not in the traditional sense of the word. SH-AWD in the RDX will actively send torque in four directions (fore, aft, left, and right) based on steering and throttle inputs. (Maybe yaw, too.)

That is as active as any other system. Only the others are limited to two directions (fore and aft).

I suspect the cost/benefit ratio is the culprit. The acceleration device is a complex set of gears and probably costs a few extra bucks. Probably adds a few pounds, too. The device would make the most difference when the vehicle is being pushed during at-the-limits driving. And, in an SUV, you might be on the verge of roll-over before you reach the point where over-driving the wheel will make a difference.

ateixeira

I'd love to see a cut-out. For some reason that's one of my favorite things to check out at car shows. I should make it a point to take as many photos of those as I can find. I always refer back to them.

-juice

robertsmx

In the "clutter" you will find only a few buttons...
Top Row: buttons to select CD, AUX, AM/FM etc (five of them)
Middle Row: CD-Changer Slot
Bottom Row: Six preset buttons, Seek/Tune buttons (a pair) and volume control knob.

That is a very basic set up. I've got about as many buttons in my 1998 Accord for audio control.

wwest

I'm not so sure.

Lexus, on the RX300 and Rx350, overdrives the rear driveline vs the front (2.98:1 vs 3.12:1) so that when the VC, Viscous Clutch/coupling "stiffens",the torque shift to the rear will be more dramatic, substantial.

Absent any "overdrive" to the rear, torque shift would be basically inoperative.

ateixeira

Maybe it's the placement that makes it look more cluttered than it is. Some of the buttons are also very low, almost hidden under the "hood". The 6 preset buttons seem small.

I dunno, I guess BMW uses iDrive to eliminate buttons. Others just use buttons. This has both.

I don't dislike it, it just looks a little busy.

-juice

robertsmx

Its the color. A lighter background would make it less cluttery. As a matter of fact, it is less cluttered than the same in my 1998 Accord (but those preset buttons in Accord are bigger).

I don't think RDX has an i-Drive like control for audio, just for the NAV. Besides, all those buttons (except presets and disc eject) should be on steering wheel too.

ateixeira

I guess I like touch screen NAVs, no buttons to clutter things up. You can use those peel-off liners for Palms if you're worried about finger prints. Even though my Garmin gets them, it's never really a big problem.

With voice commands and redundant audio buttons on the steering wheel, it really would not matter.

-juice

robertsmx

I actually prefer a symmetrical and mechanical layout. My 1998 Accord is a great representation of that well thought out design (I will try to post a picture later). It even has a small notch (like on the “J” key in a standard keyboard) on one of the middle preset buttons. It lets you feel the button and helps user be oriented with the rest of the controls, without having to take the eyes off the road. A touch screen will not allow that.

In RDX, note that the volume control knob is centrally placed. It will help orient the user with rest of the buttons, without having to look at it, if the driver chooses to use those buttons, as opposed to using the voice commands or steering wheel controls.

“Clutter”, IMO, applies when the buttons are scattered all over, or too hard to decipher. A good example would be the ovaloid set up in late 90s Taurus. Even something as “clean” as the dash in new Impala. It looks clean, until you try to use those buttons. Most European brands are similar.

As you can tell, I'm quite finicky about layouts, in general, the ergonomics. I was one of those few people who disliked Honda placing the moonroof control on the ceiling as opposed to the side of the steering wheel.

ateixeira

I guess I just want an interior to feel familiar. I shouldn't have to look for anything. I like how most Asian automakers standardized the headlight controls, for instance, right on the turn signal stalk. It's the same for any Honda, Subaru, Toyota, Madza, Nissan, you name it. No guess work.

That is how everything should be. On the radio, the left button is for volume, the right for tuning. It's an old standard that the manufacturers seem to have forgotten.

I do think that interior design peaked a while ago, and now most folks are adding a little flash, but at the cost of the more simple ergonomics we had a while ago.

I'm not talking about the old slider-style buttons from the 80s, but the nice simple rotary knobs that were around about a decade ago. I guess it's because they keep adding so many features overall (VSC on/off, NAV buttons, auto climate control, etc.).

-juice

robertsmx

Here it is... the simple, symmetrical and extremely user friendly controls in my 1998 Accord EX. Notice that "notch" in Preset 2 button.



Coincidentally, it seems to have about the same number of buttons/knobs as the RDX.

ateixeira

I get a red X?

-juice

robertsmx

Fixed it. I should have used Imagestation to host the pic... I always end up going to ofoto and that doesn't work well. Now you should be able to see it. And if not, here is a Link.

varmint

Call me crazy, but I like the downmarket approach.

http://us.tnpv.net/pv/2005/09/19/HON2005091947893_pv.jpg

Incorporate the buttons for the HVAC right on top of the traditional three dials. Then have the radio controls in a distinctily separate area. The above pic happens to be a CR-V, but there are plenty of other cars using similar arrangements.

ateixeira

See, I like that better (your Accord's). It's instantly familiar even though I've never owned one.

Without even reading any labels, I can tell it's fan speed on the left, temp on the right. To make it even better I'd replace the buttons in the middle with one more round button. A/C could be the middle part of one of the buttons. Voila, 3 knobs does it all.

The radio resembles mine, too, a 6CD Subaru unit from an '02 WRX. Volume on left, tuning on right, 6 big buttons for memory. Very universal.

The CR-V is a little quirky, the handbrake some people might grab and pull by mistake! :surprise: Or they just might not find it at first.

Also, the gear lever blocks the radio. But that's the price for the center walk-through I guess.

The buttons themselves are fine, the radio design too. I'd have made that storage bin wider so it could fit CD cases. The Hazard button could share space with whatever that other button is between the vents.

I feel that on the interior, ergonomics should come first. Then design, sure, but not as the expense of ease of use/familiarity.

-juice

ateixeira

Re-read your post and I do agree with what you said. I pointed out other ergonomic issues, but the radio and HVAC controls are spot-on.

-juice

robertsmx

One challenge that vehicles like RDX face with following traditional rules is that they have untraditional features too. Two knobs on the side works okay in my Accord for AC/Heat controls, but with two zone automatic climate control, the equation changes.

Personally, I feel AC/Heat controls should be on top... line of sight (as in my Accord), as opposed to the bottom (in CR-V), especially with proliferation of redundant audio controls on the steering wheel.

kyfdx

I really like the CR-V layout... but, the gearshift lever is definitely in the way.... I've bumped it a number of times, reaching for the volume knob... I could have fixed that by getting a stick... :surprise:

The hand-brake lever? Once you own one.. it's perfect...