Hyundai Sonata 2006-2007

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The reviewer is from the UK, where the Accord does offer a diesel option as do most other cars in this class. As will the Sonata very soon--at least in Europe. Diesels are very popular over there, as are hatchbacks--cars with a "boot" aren't as popular as in the U.S., in this class anyway.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    just posted today. I don't know how to post the link but it is on the Inside Line home page. They seem to think it is a contender.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Here's the link:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=105488

    The most telling comment is that Edmunds says it's the first Hyundai they can recommend without saying "for the price" and that Accord and Camry shoppers need to check out the Sonata. That's a big step up in perception for Hyundai.
  • spinzerospinzero Member Posts: 91
    This is an excellent start. I believe this is the first major review by the American press, and it's every bit as favorable as Hyundai would hope for. It also confirmed most of the things that Korean press have said, especially the quietness on the highway and the ride and handling close to Accord than Camry.

    I'm also very happy to see that Sonata has an excellent trunk space. I know Camry still tops it, but Toyota uses Macpherson struts in the rear (instead of multi-link like most other competitors including the new Sonata) to get that. (plus save some cost, I'm sure)

    That I believe is one of the main reason why Camry platform is fundamentally flawed in terms of dynamics. It was a smart move for Toyota, realizing that most Americans don't give a darn about handling, but if you can get a similar sized trunk while using multi-link setup that provides much better camber control, then it's even better.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    While a good review overall, and its nice that theirs is the first 'major' review up, I'm really tiring of the consistent and fairly signficant mistakes that Edmunds makes in their haste to beat competitors.

    Pricing, an essential part of a family car's appeal, is wrong in the article for the GLS and LX.

    ~alpha
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    That's the web for you... not even Hyundai could get all the details right about the Sonata on their own web site. ;)
  • zupzup Member Posts: 15
    Jesus Christ, non of the ABS, ECS, and Traction Control are standard on the Canadian GL?
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275
    http://www.newcartestdrive.com/review-intro.cfm?Vehicle=2006_Hyundai_Sonata&ReviewID=1738

    taken from the newcartestdrive.com review of the 2006 Hyundai Sonata

    But how it all works together still needs, well, work. Against the competition, which has been refining its suspension technology for much longer than Hyundai, the Sonata feels less polished, less of a whole. Not that there's anything wrong or necessarily lacking in the ride and handling, just that some of the transitions, in direction and between types and qualities of pavements, aren't as smooth as the look and feel of the Sonata promises.

    Summary

    The all-new 2006 Hyundai Sonata is a giant step up for Hyundai, moving the brand closer to Honda, Toyota and Nissan, and contesting for buyers considering Ford and Chevrolet. There's nothing unique or especially exciting about driving the new Sonata, save for the fact it's a Hyundai. By that yardstick, and what that portends for shoppers in the class, it's a blast.
  • bri76bri76 Member Posts: 14
    "...unsophisticated US driving style."

    What the heck does that mean?
  • bri76bri76 Member Posts: 14
    Interesting. According to New Car Test Drive, the Sonata is not quite ready to compete with the Japanese makes.

    The Edmunds first drive seems to disagree stating that in some areas at least the Sonata is better than its Japanese competitors.
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275

    "...unsophisticated US driving style."

    What the heck does that mean?


    It may mean that the 06 Sonata handles more like a Camry (their main target). Hyundai may be more focused on the ride than handling. We'll see when we take a test drive later this month.
  • zitlowzitlow Member Posts: 10
    "....unsophisticated US driving style" most probably is a reflection of the author's intelligence..or lack of it!
  • f111df111d Member Posts: 114
    Just like the Big 3 in the 60's and 70's.
    I have a died-in-the-wool Chrysler friend bought his first foreign car. 2004 Sonata. " It does all I need and you can't beat the price for what you get." "Wife and I love it."
    I just sent him the link to the 2006 test. I know for sure he and his wife loves the reliability. He has several grand kids now, wasting money on a car is out, especially considering they keep cutting his wages. Not the way I'd thought I'd be looking at retirement either.
    Our former employer just hired a couple of college grads and told them up front "don't expect retirement". So looks like they will in the market of bang for the buck transportation for many decades to come? Global economy?
  • spinzerospinzero Member Posts: 91
    Well... it is true that American roads are in general really really strait!

    I mean, I have to REALLY look for a winding road to give my car some exercise.

    It's actually a good thing, I don't think you can make long distance trips like most americans do if the roads were like the ones in Europe or Asia. Here, you set the cruise and just make sure you don't fall asleep.

    Great place to own a nig motor, with cheap gas and all.

    Not a very demanding environment in terms of sharp handling though.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Interesting. According to New Car Test Drive, the Sonata is not quite ready to compete with the Japanese makes.

    That's not the impression I got from reading the entire review, for example:

    All this combined makes the 2006 Hyundai Sonata good enough to put the mid-priced, midsize market on notice. There's a new player.

    and

    It's roomier in almost every dimension than its midsize competitors, which is no surprise. Fit and finish is on a par with most others in the class, which also is no surprise. In terms of performance, it equals or bests comparably featured cars, which is a surprise.

    and

    The weight is hardly noticed from behind the wheel. What is noticeable is the state-of-the-art engine technology.

    Since Accord, Camry, and Altima are included in the "mid-priced, mid-sized" market, it seems the writer believes the Sonata is quite competitive with those cars and others in its class.

    There is at least one error in the review--Hyundai has been shipping ULEV, and even SULEV, cars for a few years.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    That's true but you should know as well as anybody that people will find the one negative comment in a four page article and use it as evidence against Hyundai.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    I think that 7.5 seconds 0-60 is an inflated timing. For instance, is this with or without the traction control active? That can shave off a second easily, if not more.

    Also, when you read in car magazines that an Altima V6 can go 0-60 in 5.9 (even though Nissan says it is 6.3), and the Accord V6 can go in 6.5, these times are with manuals, and the Sonata has only an automatic available on the V6 range.

    Additionally, although 7.5 may not seem super-speedy, we have to keep in mind that a Sonata V6 is the price of a four-cylinder competitor.

    When it is all said and done, it's the fastest one of the class for the dollar anyway.

    I wonder when they are adding navigation to the range, which I have read they will do at some point in this generation. Also, does anyone know when exactly XM Radio will become standard? I know it is by the end of 2006, but I would like to know a more precise date.
  • bri76bri76 Member Posts: 14
    I have been telling family and friends about Hyundai's turnaround ever since I bought a 2000 Elantra and 2001 Elantra GT.

    The author of the NCTD review does make mention of Hyundai's positive attributes, but as is so often the case, he seems to hold back at the last moment.

    "The all-new 2006 Hyundai Sonata is a giant step up for Hyundai, moving the brand closer to Honda, Toyota and Nissan, and contesting for buyers considering Ford and Chevrolet."

    I took the above to mean that people considering Honda, Toyota, and Nissan would still not consider the Sonata. Looking at it again, I guess he is speaking of the brand in general.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The author needs to look around. Hyundai as a brand is already contesting for buyers considering Ford and Chevy, and Honda, Toyota, and Nissan as well. For example, even Hyundai's five-year-old models are rated higher than their brand-new GM counterparts by Consumer Reports. The Elantra, Tucson, and Santa Fe are competitive with comparable models from Honda/Toyota/Nissan.
  • betabeta Member Posts: 1
    I thought that the whole point of the Sonata were its eyes (front lights), it kind of looked like a Jaguar. Now they have turned into a simple, square car, like any other one on the road, it is not special anymore. Am I the only one thinking like this? :(image
  • manofsteel2k6manofsteel2k6 Member Posts: 25
    No you are not. I feel the same way.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    I was upset until I saw the car in person. Pictures do not do it any justice at all. It looks like a very substantial well built vehicle. It's styling is a bit on the conservative side, but that has worked for Toyota and Honda for years. The best word that I can think of is inoffensive. It should not turn people off the way the current one does. Now most people here like the styling of the current model. What you're not hearing is how many people dislike the current body. It seems to generate either I love it or I hate it responses. The new one will hopefully fall in the middle so as to attract, or perhaps not offend, more people.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Reminds me of Automobile Magazine's recent design review of the LaCrosse. They commented on the blister-back headlights, which is very similar to those on the Sonata, and said something like, "This was cool in 1968, on a Jaguar, but the gimmick has been overused by too many other, lesser cars since then." In other words, time to move into the 21st century with the Sonata. :)

    And it does look much classier in person, on the road, than in the pics.
  • herotakesafallherotakesafall Member Posts: 103
    I finally read the edmunds review. I'm surprised that they say the interior is a "vast improvement." I always thought the quality and appearance of the interior of the Sonata was fantastic. I actually thought the new interior looked a bit bland, and a bit off. This is pretty good news, then!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Once again, pics don't do it justice. What I thought when I saw the interior of the new Sonata up close what that it could easily be in any car in the segment--including the likes of Accord and Camry. Compare the two side by side at the dealer and the old Sonata will look very dated in comparison. The old one wasn't that bad--but the new one is just better.
  • sonatabobsonatabob Member Posts: 15
  • sonatabobsonatabob Member Posts: 15
    I bought a 2005 silver LX in March because with rebates and incentives it sold for less than my '03 Elantra GT did 2 years prior. AND I've always admired the styling of the '02 thru '05. I knew then that the '06 was only a few months away and that certainly mine will look dated next to it, BUT it's been out for 4 years and we're all used to it! To the contrary I've gotten more compliments from folks on how classy mine looks. Most think it looks like a Jag or Mercedes C Class which is flattering. The interior has abslutely nothing to be ashamed of and having recently spent a weekend car-shopping with a friend, comparing Audi, BMW and Acura interiors I truly, truly prefer mine. Now I'm not going to diminish the '06 -in fact I go on-line every day to enter in the Hyundai "win-one" sweepstakes. It is a beauty but as mine gets compared to Jag and Mercedes, most think the new one looks like a Honda or Acura. I realize Hyundai had styling clinics which led to the new design but it is decidedly less distinctive.
    At any rate, Hyundai is on the fast-track to a much larger marketshare. In fact, since I bought my '03 Elantra no fewer than 9 family, friends and coworkers have purchased Hyundai vehicles, ALL moving out of other makes.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,709
    gentlemen. Hyundai's and Kia's improve with each passing year. The '06 has styling cues to a Toyota or Honda yet I still think it looks better than the Japanese mid-to-large size sedans. Hyundai has scored another victory with this handsome new sedan IMHO.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • choe13choe13 Member Posts: 348
    Hyundai has been working overtime for them to meet their slogan "drive your way"

    This company seems like they have studied technologies from others and incoporated the best points into one single car with the same low hyundai price. Here are some of my analysist from reading other first drives, specifications, and talking to some owners from korea etc

    Safety is as good as volvo or subaru in my books. Test crash will have to be determined, but airbags galore, traction, stability control std. They really didn't have to, but will gain alot of respect from family oriented buyers

    Design- I'm sick of everyone saying how this car copied the Accord. If anyone would look closely it resembles very much the current Elantra but yes they did use alot of cues from the former audi A6. I think it is conservatively good looking and will age very well.

    Drive, handling - I've been hearing the suspension to be a little stiff(sportier), yet intrusion of these bumps are offset by their benchmark noise reduction into the cabin. The stiffness coupled with light but precise steering, and optional AGS suspension will give this car a rear wheel drive feel

    Enginge- Made with the latest technologies with alot of tips and guidance from Mitsubishi and Chrysler/Mercedez, i'm sure this engine will be at least at par with the best of its competitors. I been hearing its quite smooth, and the four feels like a v6 which is great news

    Interior- Oustanding fit and quality, soft buttons, easy on the eyes, good ergonamics, pleasent luxurious harmony. Could be actually the cars very best trait

    What hyundai has done is diminished alot of their pride compared to the japanese or the germans who are relunctant to borrow cues from each other. Instead hyundai whose cars are closer to the japanese makers the past years(quality awards) have dismantled some european auto cars, which then have created a japanese + european fusion car, and could very well be the #1 car company in the near future at this rate.

    Though this is a bias comment, i'm glad no one is taking this company lightly.

    take a look at this new article i found on this car

    http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/06sonata.htm
  • thndrstmthndrstm Member Posts: 47
    Go to http://macleans.auto123.com/en/info/news/roadtest,view,Hyundai.spy?artid=40262&pg=1

    I get many new articles using Google's alerts for "2006 Hyundai Sonata".
  • spinzerospinzero Member Posts: 91
    http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=19419

    While not very in-depth, again, it's quite favorable.
  • bobadbobad Member Posts: 1,587
    Knowing just a tad about the Japanese and Korean competitive spirit (OK, bitter rivalry), there is a war on here. Hyundai has declared war on the Japanese car makers, and will try to kill them off with quality and value. Japan will fight back, and may release new models or reduce prices in existing nameplates to stay competitive. Who wins the war? We do! :)
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275
    I know Honda's first response will be the 2006 Accord MMC (which will be more extensive than usual), followed by Toyota in the first half of 2006 with the 6th generation Camry. According to some rumors, the 2007 Camry will get some features (like HID headlamps) that the new Avalon has. They're not going to make it easy for Hyundai, that's for sure.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    MMC = mid model change

    For the most part, moms and dads buy Sonatas, Accords, and Camroids. They are not going to be wowed by the likes of HID headlamps, and some other not-worth-it-for-the-price features that may be on the next Camroid. The Nissan Altima already has HIDs as an option, and no one that buys that car gets them, from the headlamps of the ones I see on the road.

    The new Accord and Camry coming out I doubt will do anything to the Sonata. The Sonata is as good or better than any other car in its class with this new model, hands down. With the re-dos of the competition close at hand, I'm sure that Hyundai has done some research into what they can expect from their competition and released the Sonata knowing that it will remain competitive against inevitable redesigns.

    Also, what is going to make the Accord and Camry win this fight? 20 more horses under the hood isn't going to make them win. The people that drive the V6 models now don't even really need them in the first place, so I doubt if when these new ones come out if they have more power that it will make the Sonata look subpar. Also, we can expect that Sonata sales will snowball, because Hyundai has higher owner retention than Honda and Toyota at 54% according to USA Today, and considering that Hyundai expects to sell 150,000 Sonatas in the first year alone shows us that we can expect to see more and more of them out there as years go on.

    Another thing I'd like to point out is that EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS HONDA AND TOYOTA. When someone is shopping for a midsize, it's not like Hyundai comes to mind right off the bat for most people. They think Camry Accord, and most of the time not even Altima. It is my opinion that a big chunk of the way Hyundai/Kia drive up their sales is by word of mouth alone. If someone that drives a Honda says to you "you should get a Honda" that isn't going to change your opinion of Honda because you already know that people think highly of them. When someone drives a Hyundai and is like "I swear by this car, you'd be stupid to pay $5000 more for a car that isn't even as good and without a warranty" they stop and think 'maybe I should give'em a look"...and they do. My sister has had 3 Kia Spectras now, and it has since spread to my mother in the form of an Optima, and a family friend in the form of a Spectra5. And that is KIA. Hyundai is a much more competitive than Kia is against major players.

    I can't wait to see how this pans out. Am I the only one aching to see when the likes of the media has a full-out comparison of all the midsize cars again? Ugh, I can't wait to see how the Sonata beats Camry and Accord! Imagine the sour taste in the mouth of an Accord driver who realizes he is a dips**t for paying $4000 more for a car that is comparatively worse. (in my not-so-humble opinion)
  • rrcrrc Member Posts: 30
    Whether you drive a Huyndai or a Honda doesn't necessarily brand you as a dips**t does it? I have a 02 gls with which i am very happy - no problems so far at 60K. My take on the new Sonata is I hope they improved acceleration, handling, and interior room, which from what I've read sounds like they have. Hyundai's hurdle is twofold - their terrible reputation, and the American philosophy of you get what you pay for. I like their business plan - but I would submit that to legitimatize their standing with the consumer Hyundai will actually have to bump their msrp closer to honda and toyota. (unless they come down!) I suspect we'll see higher prices as they gain credibility. Meanwhile, the Sonata is a great value, safe, reliable, comfortable, but ultimately somewhat boring to drive. Hopefully, 2006 may change that last dynamic.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually, the prices are up for the '06 Sonata compared to the '05. But still not as much as an Accord or Camry--which is smart. Hyundai can't get away charging as much as Honda and Toyota quite yet. But with higher prices and lower rebates, Sonata selling prices will take quite a jump. I suspect it will be a long time, if ever, before we see a new '06 Sonata LX for under $15k like I have seen the '05 LX advertised recently.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    I think that you are making some very strong statements here..

    "The Sonata is as good or better than any other car in its class with this new model, hands down."

    Have you driven the new Sonata back-to-back to the Altima, Camry, and Accord? Have you ever even driven an Altima SE, or a Honda Accord EX?

    "Ugh, I can't wait to see how the Sonata beats Camry and Accord! Imagine the sour taste in the mouth of an Accord driver who realizes he is a dips**t for paying $4000 more for a car that is comparatively worse."

    Umm. That is an ignorant statement. First of all, I would be surprised if the Hyundai can beat any car in this class. Come close, maybe. But not beat. And from your statement you are assuming that all Accord, Camry , and Altima owners, for that matter, are dips**ts for not buying a Hyundai??!!! Why, because they want a car that is the best selling, class leading mid-size car? Because they want a car with a proven track record that hold its value? Because they want more horsepower, or possibly an innovative car with a hybrid system? Because they want more features such as a built-in navigation system? I think you need to rethink your statement.

    As for price, it is more like 1-2K difference. The new Sonata has more features and will cost more than last years model. Hyundai cannot afford to keep giving their cars away here in North America if they want to catch Toyota and Honda. Hyundai's operating profit has dropped by 33% this year because they are having to inflate their sales through offering steep rebates on their vehicles (sounds like the same path GM and Ford have gone down). Quote from CNN/Money:

    "Like many South Korean exporters, Hyundai is having to cope with a stronger won currency and higher steel prices, as well as a sluggish local economy. Its first-quarter operating profits tumbled by almost one third."

    I am interested in driving the new Sonata, but will wait to buy one for at least two years so that they can work out the kinks and so that I can compare to the newer Camry, Accord, and Altima models coming out. And remember, Toyota actually dropped the cost of their 02 Camry when it was first released vs the 01 model because they were able to cut operating expenses. I would not be surprised if the next gen Camry was even cheaper and they stole away some Hyundai owners..
  • pzevpzev Member Posts: 807
    Not sure if this is official yet or not but here is invoice pricing that I found.

    GL
    Invoice: $16,511
    MSRP: $17,895

    GLS
    Invoice: $17,896
    MSRP: $19,395

    LX
    Invoice: $20,961
    MSRP: $22,895
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    but the real quesiton is, for how LONG, and IF, it actually will be class leading.

    After all, the current Sonata is LONG in the tooth...it was actually introduced in what MY 1999 or 1998 and then got a MAJOR facelift for 2001 or 2002? A la VW Passat (1998 release, then for MY 2001.5 got a MAJOR facelift..until 2005.)

    For one, from what I see, it looks like this new Hyundai is better in everyway. From the pics, everything looks high quality.

    BUT..the interior design is LACKING...seriously lacking. Take a look at the Accord, Camry or even my Altima, and the designs look better IMO.

    Also, I think its a bit bland as well. Bland is what got Mazda and Nissan in trouble for YEARS..if people want BLAND, we buy Camry, Accord, Malibu, Impala (or that's what people tell me)

    The Mazda6 and Altima lead the styling race as far as imports are concerned..and even the G6 looks pretty good.

    Other than both bland interiors and exteriors, I don't see anything "bad" about the new Sonata.

    The engines are powerful and class competitve, its roomy...priced nicely (but the price advantage between it and the Camry/Accord has narrowed quite a bit) and it has some serious standard features.

    I think it will be class competitve and it will be a HUGE success for Hyundai, but you have got to realize that beating Honda and Toyota is going to be TOUGH...especially the Accord.

    The Accord is mostly considered to be the benchmark of this class..and so far, no other cars have beat it in comparison test to date...

    and on top of THAT...Honda's weakess point, STYLING, is going to be address a mere three months (or less) after this Sonata is released...and before you know it the 07 Camry and Altima will be out.

    And as far as HIDS are concerned..The Altima 4 cylinder models (the bulk of sells) don't have HIDS available. HOWEVER...the V6 models (SE and SL) make them either available (SE with Sport Plus or Leather Sport Pkg or the 3.5SL standard (3.5SL) so quite a few people DO actually have them..but its just on the high end models.

    I drive a 2.5S and I don't have them...but my friend's 3.5SE does...BUT this Sonata will NEED a Navigation system...just for the sake of saying they have one.

    There was a time..when only the MAXIMA and Camry had Navigation systems in this class(MY 2002)

    Once the Accord had one..EVERYBODY added them...Altima got it for 05, and the Mazda6 will have one optional for 2006. Even the non-competitve Chrysler Sebring Sedan has one optional now.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Yes, I do believe that a Sonata, for what people use a midsize car for, beats the competition hands down. You don't even have to drive one to know.

    What are the things on the top of midsize buyers' lists?
    -Space
    -Comfort
    -Price
    -Quiet
    -Adequate power
    -Price
    -Price
    -Safety
    -Price
    -Style

    Obviously I am being somewhat exaggerated in calling an Accord or Camry buyer a dips**t, obviously. Considering what a 35-45 year old male or female does with their car though, you can know that this car fits them better than an Accord or Camry does. Altimas are unnecessarily sporty, and are purchased for image, performance, or brand loyalty. They are good cars, but a moot point for the average shopper in asking what would fit them best. Accords aren't as good as Camry or Sonata based on two big areas. They are smaller inside, and more expensive, with less warranty coverage. AND YES, they do need it, as if you will look into on the internet, you will find that Hondas with automatic transmissions pretty much all go out at 60k nowadays, off of warranty. That leaves the Camry and Sonata on the best-fit list. The Sonata is in all likelihood safer (to get side curtains, abs, tcs, and esp on a Camroid is $1600 option), quieter inside, larger inside, priced better, and has better protection. Even if it were priced the same, it would be the clear choice. And do not bring up resale value at this point, because all of the newer Hyundai desings are tier-4 of 5 in ALG residual value ratings.

    You can just wait and see. It's just a matter of getting people into the showrooms. Most people that look at Hyundais statistically buy Hyundais. They publically say, I believe it was John Krahfcik to Wards Auto, that their problem is that people don't come into the showrooms. This is why they have added things like the warranty and now XM radio.
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    I have read on Autonews.net and on Wards Auto that Hyundai is adding navigation to its lineup mid-stream of this Sonata model, and I would bet it would be on the MMC.

    Here's what Hyundai USA has in the works: IN ORDER, from what I've read
    -New Sonata
    FALL
    -New Accent, Azera, Santa Fe
    WINTER
    -Entorage (the minivan)
    SPRING
    -New Elantra
    FUTURE
    -2007: rear-drive luxury car which may either come along, or with two other models; which at this time is unknown whether it will be in same Hyundai showrooms or in new dealership channel
    -Next Tiburon will be rear wheel drive
    -Sonata Coupe (though some suggest that the Sonata Coupe will replace the Tiburon, though I see this as unlikely)
    -Trucks (from what I've read they will not even start to focus on this idea until after all of the aforementioned things happen, even after the luxury line). The trucks may only come to the Kia brand.

    ___
    Considering that they are trying to move upscale, especially if they are going to have a luxury line, they are going to need navigation. Hyundai Mobis navi systems are on the Korean-spec models, but the satellites probably are not in place for our shores at this time...and the demand for this at this time is not great. They have the techonology, it is just administering it that is preventing it as the only other reason besides demand for why they don't have it right now.

    Most Camries and Accords do not have navigation systems, as they are quite an expensive option. The kind of person that pays $2000 for talking maps in their car probably is not the same person that is shopping Hyundais right now, and that is just a plain fact. This will change, however, rest assured.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Quote:

    because they want a car that is the best selling, class leading mid-size car?

    Just remember, not too many years ago, the Ford Taurus was the leader of this pack! :D
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The Taurus hasnt been class leading since 1986 when it debuted and redefined what the American auto makers could provide in the family sedan category. It held the sales crown for years after that, but you get my point.

    Mononeo, I love how you write as you have access to file cabinets of market research on the midsize segment available to you. Can you substantiate claims that people only think Camry or Accord and not even Altima when shopping midsize cars? Do you have a cite or reference for your subsequent claim on why Altima owners bought that vehicle? How do you know that the new Sonata is quieter or safer than an Accord or Camry (with side curtain airbags)? I've never seen anything that points to the likeliehood of Accord transmission failure at 60K, but you pass it off as fact that if you have an Accord, at 60K be prepared for a new unit. Hardly!

    My point is that I while I think this vehicle is going to completely change things for Hyundai, you're going off the deep end just a bit with respect to how the new Sonata will change things in the segment. This is an extremely competitve time, with many new designs coming out soon.... personally, I feel the next Camry will be an early intro (like Toyota did with the most recent Corolla) in the Spring of 2006 as an 07 model, with the new Altima to follow shortly. Plus, theres the new Fusion/Milan to contend with, which have great chassis and rigidity (but lacking engines, IMO), and the Saturn Aura which will feature GMs excellent 3.6L engine.

    Hyundai will need to keep this model fresh as max stated, and they wont be able to keep it around for 7 model years. (Maxamillion- I will agree, the interior is bland...why no electroluminescent instrumentation at least on the LX model?)

    ~alpha
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    I think you have highlighted the Sonata's strengths. Hyundai engineers were very smart with regards to space on this vehicle. But, the Camry, Accord, and Altima have more than enough space in their current configuration (I can only assume that future vehicles will match or beat Sonata).
    - Comfort. Based on the pics that I have seen all of the top end models for Accord, Camry, and Altima have as many or more comfort features. Accord clearly has the advantage here with heated and power adjusted passenger seats (other models only have this for the driver). Advantage Honda.

    - Quiet. Have not seen the specs, but are you saying that the top model Sonata is more quiet than the top model Camry? Again, all of these vehicles are quiet (to the best of my knowledge).

    - Power. Altima and Accord have more power hands down. Sonata has more power than Camry, but Sonata also outweighs all the vehicles in this class (in some cases by several hundred pounds). Advantage Nissan/Honda

    - Price. Advantage Sonata, although not by as much as the previous model. the gap has closed here.

    - Safety. Umm, going off Hyundai's past track record for IIHS crash tests, I am not so certain that Hyundai will be the leader here. Current models with side airbags still score "poor" on side impact tests. The verdict is still out, but I give the nod to Honda and Toyota here with Nissan in third.

    - Let me add in styling. The 06 Sonata IMHO is not a bad looking car, but it is not going to win any beauty contests either. Hyundai is trying to appeal to the masses, which is not a bad thing, but if you ask me the previous Sonata was not a bad looking car and really distinguished itself from the Honda and Toyota particularly. I think the Altima still is the most distinctive, stylish vehicle of the bunch.

    - Personality. I am looking forward to driving the new Sonata to see if it has as much personality as my Altima SE. The Altima is a blast to drive and I actually look forward to my morning commute :) From what I have read, the Sonata sounds more like the Camry. It is bland. Again, not a bad thing if you are trying to appeal to the masses, but if I am going to drop 22-25K on a car I would hope that it would have some personality and be fun to drive. Otherwise, I can buy something cheaper that fills the same need.

    One more thing. Hybrids. Honda already has one and the Altima will soon have a hybrid model. Not sure about Toyota, but they seem to be heading in that direction (Highlander, Lexus RX 330, etc). This is a big advantage since dealers cannot keep hybrids on the lot here in Northern VA.

    I think that Hyundai has made strides with engineering, but still struggles with styling. the market is saturated with bland mid-size vehicles, and I am anxious to see what future Honda, Toyota, and Nissan models look like before I buy.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    One thing about "bland", ala Camry: bland sells. What is the #1 selling car in the U.S.? (Hint: it isn't the Altima.) The Accord, which IMO is also an extremely bland (but good) car, is 2nd if I recall correctly. I think the Altima is nicely styled but is in the end a bland car also. In the class, I think only the Mazda6 has any real sense of sportiness. Hyundai is pushing to be the fifth largest carmaker worldwide by 2010. To do that, they must appeal to mass markets. The old Sonata may have had distinctive styling, but it was clearly not in the mainstream (read: big sales potential) like the Camcordima. I think Hyundai learned a lesson there.

    Have you seen the Sonata in person yet? Sat in it? It's more impressive up close than in pictures I think. The crisp lines don't shriek "bland" to me but "tasteful elegance." The interior is better than the Camry's and Altima's IMO and does have some features competitors do not have (e.g. rear sunshade and adjustable center armrest). As for safety, I think it's premature to rate the Sonata below Accord and Camry given only the Sonata has standard ESC in that class and has standard SACs which the Camry does not. Let's wait for the crash tests and then see how the Sonata compares.

    Hyundai has told the press it will bring a hybrid to market soon, but has not said which model(s). They did show a prototype hybrid Elantra a few years ago.
  • danf1danf1 Member Posts: 897
    They are actually rushing the hybrid cars. They want them out by 2007. Initially in the Accent and possibly the Rio. I think I read about it on Autoweek, but it may have been aicautosite. You are good at the link thing, so I'm sure you can track it down. It was within the last few days that they announced that.
  • dc_driverdc_driver Member Posts: 712
    Like I said I do not think the Sonata is a bad looking car, based on the pictures and reviews I have seen. The problem is that the segment already has a bunch of bland styled cars and my opinion is that the current generation Sonata helped Hyundai to stand out a little. But I understand that Hyundai is trying their hardest to appeal to the masses.

    I think there is something to be said for what Chrysler has done with the 300. That is a really distinctive automobile and has sold very well. I am not convinced that people buy the Accord or the Camry for its styling, but its reputation. Same with Nissan. There are six Altima's in my family now and none of them have had any problems outside of routine maintenance (and one has over 200,000 miles).

    I applaud Hyundai for putting so many standard safety features on the 06 Sonata, but I do not think it is fair to say that Hyundai has an advantage over the competition until it is tested by the IIHS. Both Honda and Toyota get the highest ratings for crash tests (with side airbags) as of this post, so I think they are in the lead until the Sonata tests come in.

    I truly am excited to test drive an 06 Sonata LX. When I do decide to buy a new car (07?), I am sure that the Hyundai will be considered. And that is saying something since I would not have ever considered a Hyundai even just 3 years ago.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the 300 is one of the ugliest things on wheels. Not to mention claustrophobic. I wouldn't drive one if they gave it to me. I can't understand how such an ugly car, made up of old parts from the MB bin and old-school V8 technology, has garnered such acclaim. To each his own I guess.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    That's a first for me...but to each his/her own I guess...

    And mononeo, I guess I don't fit into the typical car buyer segment.

    I didn't place space first in my list..if that were the case, REFINEMENT was my top choice, style, space then features.

    But then again, I'm only 19, not exactly your typical Nissan Altima demographic.

    Bu the NEXT time around I think I'll be going for something a little smaller.

    And I agree, that the Hyundai will be MUCH more competitive this time around..BUT that doesn't mean Honda and Toyota are just gonna sit back and let them take over...Honda and Toyota are EXTREMELY competitive...and if the leaps and bounds of improvement for the 05 Altima's interior are any indication of what is next, the next Altima will have a MUCH better interior than now.

    All I can say is that I can't WAIT to see a comparison test done with the new Sonata...until then, I guess no one really knows
  • mononeomononeo Member Posts: 89
    Yes! I purposefully get carried away in my posts. I'm a college student, and a master debater, actually. I am a former Oregon Senator in the National Forensice League Tournament...Something only 300 debaters in high school can be called each year. If there is one thing that you learn in debate, it is that you have to get the other side going. Seeing as how this is a discussion about a 2006 Hyundai Sonata, for the most part, people like myself and Backy, who are into Hyundais are going to come in and be like "wow, I'm so into Hyundais." Then, people like Alpha01, and Maxamillian will stop in and say, "yeah, that Sonata looks a little interesting." So what do I do? I try and get people driving different cars talking about those cars so that we can make better CONversation, and enrich the discussion. I don't care if I seem somewhat kooky, because in the end I will benefit from seeing how much other people think about their other cars and the Sonata, their competitor. The idea is the "Marketplace of Ideas" by John Stewart Mills. Look it up.

    Also, in other discussion forums I have been on, including vtec dot net, they (other Accord owners, of the current generation) report that it is somewhat likely to have your transmission go out around 60,000 miles. It is mostly on V6 models. Also, I work at a place that has a fleet of Honda Civics. There used to be five 2001 Honda Civic DX sedans with automatics, they got 160,000 miles on them each by the time they were sold (all but one) in 2004. Why were they sold? Because each of their transmissions went out twice! Around every 60,000 miles, to be exact. On top of this, my father drives a 1998 Civic LX, where, you guessed it...the transmission went out at 60,000 miles! Obviously I cannot fax you or post you records that I am telling the truth or not, but no one can, as this is a discussion forum, and you are going to just have to take my word for it. Why would I just settle on the number 60,000? Those reading this that have seen me in other forums for some time will note that I have brought up the 60,000-Honda rule.

    Also, it is just an observational anomaly that the kind of person that drives a Camry, will probably be into bland styling, as people have noted above this post. So when I say that the kind of person that shops at Accords and Camries does not necessarily look at Altimas, it is just my opinion that this seems fairly obvious. No rules are going to apply always, and in all cases, and thus there are exceptions, but like I said, this is my opinion. I wanted to see if by my saying that the Camry and Accord were bland, if others agreed. Then the Altima. From there I wanted to see what other peoples' opinions were about how the Sonata fit into that equation and why. If you read the above posts, it seems to have worked.

    For the most part, since I have been badgering people into comparing their own cars and competitors to the Sonata, the discussion has livened up quite a bit. Although, most of it can be attributed to reviews of the car coming out, and publicitiy on the television. If you look back to the early posts of this discussion before myself and others started wanting people to compare cars, it was mostly stuff like "gee guys, what kind of mileage do you think the Sonata will get?" and "the Sonata is looking good." Now, we have SUBSTANTIVE posts.

    Also, when I say that the Sonata is going to be quieter than Camry or Accord, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to bet that in all likelihood, the Sonata will be quieter than those cars. Hyundai always mentions what cars it benchmarked for NVH levels, and they are luxury cars, I think the Lexus ES330, which you can bet (it being the super-luxo Camry) that it will be quieter than a Camry. Then, take into account how quiet the current Sonata is...and how ANNOYINGLY loud the current Accord (or all Hondas for that matter) is inside, and you can pretty much have it in writing that the Sonata is quieter than the Accord.

    Also, something that can be noted about my claims of safety can come from Hyundai itself. We hear some chatter of how poorly the other Hyundais have done in Insurance Institute for Highway Safety tests, and that is true...but I have noticed something in particular to make me think that the Sonata will perform much better. This is going to be a stretch, Alpha01, but to see what makes me think that it will fare better, you are either going to have to speak Korean, or follow these instructions.

    Go to www.hyundai-motor.com and click KOREA.
    When the page loads, on the top of it, there will be a darker gray rectangle that is animated with flash, and when you move over the links, they turn darker yet gray.
    Hit the far left link. It will take you to the showroom.
    Once there, it will say SHOWROOM in English at least one place.
    Underneath whatever model is being showcased upon your visit, there are three different secions that are animated with flash, for three different types of vehicles. When you scroll over them, the different vehicles show up.
    The left is PASSENGER VEHICLES, middle is RVs (SUVs and vans to us), right is COMMERCIAL.
    Scroll over the left side, and it is the 5th vehicle down. A picture of the Sonata will show up.
    CLICK THE SONATA.
    A pop-up window will open.
    This new Sonata window will feature english links that change to Korean when scrolled over, so it is easier to navigate.
    CLICK SAFETY.
    Once there, click the right arrow button, and the gallery links will go to the next scroll.
    The now first picture on the left will show you about FSST. Five Star Safety Technology, and a giant computer-rendered image of the Sonata hitting a nondeformable barrier in an offset crash is shown. You can even see the acronym NHTSA mentioned.

    Clearly, the Hyundai engineers made a particular effort on making this car safer in this sort of crash. They have learned twice (with the new Spectra, and current Elantra) how to fix a car to perform best in an offset crash, and I'm sure whatever they've learned will be applied to this ever-so-crucial model of theirs.

    Also consider the fact that this will be the only car in its class with active head restraints. My bet is that they want the IIHS to make them look like the safest midsize. Best-pick GOOD in offset. Best-pick GOOD in side. Best-pick GOOD in rear collision.
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