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I see there was an incident in Kumamoto tuesday involving a problem that happened in 2004. Would you care to give us more info on the subject.
-torn8o
Thank You,
John
I am shocked in all of my searches on every message board I could find, I must be the first person to have tried this b/c it was a DISASTER.
First the installer disconnected the amp under the seat (I have the JBL non-Nav system). We unplugged the amp from the system and for grins turned the car on. I could not turn the volume anymore. Obviously no sound would come out b/c the amp was not hooked up, but when I turned the volume knob the numbers would not go up and down on the deck.
Revelation #1: The amp is tied to the deck w/ bi-directional info traveling between the head unit and the amp. So we CANNOT disconnect the amp.
Side point: The JBL amp is a piece of junk and anyone who thinks it is really 8 channel 440W or anything resembling that is crazy. The thing was tiny and weighed about 2 pounds. I bought a 4 channel JL Audio amp that is 3x bigger and probably 4x heavier and from my experience in home equipment weight matters in an amp.
So we decided to install a line converter (basically a device that takes an amplified or speaker level input and turns it back down to a signal level input for an amp), keep the existing amp, and install the new amp under the drivers seat. Just for those wondering, this would mean the head unit would send a signal (turns out to be digital - more on that later) to the factory JBL amp to be amplified then I would send that signal to the line converter to be 'reduced' to a signal to send to a real amp and then on to the speakers - not very elegant to say the least.
Revelation #2: After a few minute of running wire and now trying to install the new amp under the driver seat - removing seat, running wires under the center console, etc, a new problem was realized. The signal out of the JBL amp is already crossed over i.e. the input to the front door speakers is only low frequency. So we would not be getting a full range signal to amplify to send to my new speakers.
So some more pondering occurred. Then we went on a hope that maybe the signal from the head unit to the JBL amp could be used directly. The installer thought it was a digital signal, but we tried to check anyway. We hooked up a meter to it and it did not appear to be Analog so no dice.
So we hooked up everything like it was minus a lot of wires now have splices.
Next step - Order a Audio Control LC8. It is a device that takes speaker level inputs and converts to signal (like a line converter) but also does signal summing which solves the crossover output issue.
Hopefully good news next week.
Moral of the story - Toyota is doing everything in its power to make this difficult.
I think most Camry buyers, given the demographic, just don't care to undertake what you're doing. I think the JBL is great in this car, if you don't that's cool, but it doesn't make the rest of us "crazy".
~alpha
Now I have't driven the best for any length of time so my perspective is skewed and I admit that. However given the demographic of who the likely buyers of a Camry ( or Accord or Sonata or Altima ) are the sound is beyond any I have ever heard in miles and miles of driving these.
2. This amplifier uses high-frequency switching techniques to re-build audio-band analog signals for the speakers. This is the same technique used in most home theater amplifiers with 5+ channels. It wastes almost no power (little need to cool the amplifer) and usually sounds acceptably good (less than 0.1% THD) but not audiophile quality level. Switching amplifiers are also light, but that does not directly imply that they are cheap (though they may be).
3. Please note that speakers are the main cause for poor sound, not amplifiers.
4. There are no crossovers in such systems : A Digital Signal Processor shapes the signals, similar to a band equalizer for each channel. Aside from the specialized low frequency outputs (4) and rear tweeter outputs, I suspect that the equalizer is not too flat for the so-called full-range speakers under the windshield, in order to compensate for their shortcomings.
5. Jose explained quite clearly that he used the full-range signals from the front speakers to supply the new tweeters in the front doors.
Yes, such systems are a way to keep customers bound to JBL, but they also simplify amplifier cooling, reduce amplifier and wiring weight, improve fuel economy and reduce costs.
Some great info and you are obviously more informed than I was when I began this project. I am just surprised that no one else had run into the pitfalls in this system compared to every other car stereo system
Replacing speakers and amps has always been a pretty simple project, but that is now no longer true. At least according to every installer I talked to, no one was aware of these issues on a Toyota, so I think this is the first year they have done this.
I don't consider myself an audiophile by any stretch. Beyond adding a CD changer I have been happy w/ the factory system in a Nissan Maxima, Jeep Grand, and a Yukon.
On to your points:
1. I guess this is confirming that the signal from the head unit is digital and not a normal analog pre-amp signal. I don't believe this is normally done.
2. I think you are referring to digital amps. I don't think most home systems are digital but I know there are a few units available.
3. I agree, the main thing I wanted was a better front speaker system. I wanted a true full range speaker in the front b/c the woofer only in the door and the 2.5" was not acceptable. So like Jose who put in a full range 6x9, I was putting a full range component type 6.5", but I thought while we are screwing around for the install go ahead and replace the amp b/c like speakers the factory amps are usually cheap too.
4. I was surprised that there were no knobs or crossover buttons or anything on the amp. I guess w/ the LC8 device we are going to be able to sum the signal of the woofer and the 'full-range' dash, hopefully this will be a good true full range signal. This may be my biggest concern after your comments.
5. Before this process I would not have considered this b/c I would have assumed there would be too much load on one pair of channels on the amp to have the new speaker on the same channel as the front dash, but I now don't know.
Class "A" are 35% or less efficient. Class "B" (push-pull) are less than 65% efficient.
When you see home theater amplifiers rated at 100W per channel that never get hot, you can bet they use special tricks, like multi-rail supplies and switching and/or digital techniques.
My 1974 class "B" Dynaco has a distorsion level of 0.005%, while Sony's STDRE565 (out of memory) has 0.05%.
Keep us posted - I'd like to improve my Camry's sound too.
But I do agree this review goes over the top, plus the writer didn't even get his facts straight, like his comment about buying extra airbags. Uh, all airbags, side curtain, side, and driver knee, are standard.
Regarding the styling, well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I think the review is spot on.
From a review of the various automotive boards, it is becoming patently obvious that quality issues are emerging in both the Toyota and Lexus lines. The brands' present market standing is based on the quality of years gone by. As was the case with Mercedes, it will take a few years for the reality of the diminishing quality now extant to come to market realization and when it does sales will inevitably be impacted.
Thanks
* Reclining rear seats (no fold down then, just pass through)
* Plasmacluster air purifier
* Leather seats, steering wheel, shift knob
* JBL 440 Watt stereo (with bluetooth and 6CD)
* Dual auto climate
* Yellow wood trim
* Auto dimming mirror
* Heated outside mirrors
* Moonroof
* Rims instead of wheel covers
* Fog lights
* Rear seat vents
I think only you can answer that for yourself. I didn't want leather or yellow wood, so I went with a loaded LE instead. I don't miss most of the features that the XLE has (we have an 05 XLE too).
You keep the fold down rear seat. Leather is hot in the summer and bloody cold in our winters.
Buy yourself with the thousands you save a set of 18" aftermarket rims and summer rubber, all the while keeping the steel rims for winter with winter rubber. Steel rims don't lose air pressure like alloy rims do. Although Toyota lists alloys as standard equipment in specs and lists the alloys in the C package as an option. Are they different wheels?
You also get the V-6 without the electronic nannies VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) and VDIM (Vehicle Dynamics Intergrated Management), which to me means more money for vehicle maintainance and they won't let you have any fun with your 276 hp.
Power seats suck big time especially if your spouse is quite a bit shorter than yourself. I don't know how many times I have been stuck in the rain waiting for my Bonnevilles seat to gradually meander its way back to allow me in. In my Tracker, pull the bar, seats back, I'm in.
Okay you don't get some nifty gadgets like the outside temp in the mirror and a nav system, but how often would you use them. Yes their is some nice trim pieces but you can order some nice trim pieces through Toyota in accessories.
Power sunroofs are prone to leaking when their seals get old and dried out. You can't just buy a seal, no no, you have to buy the entire sunroof. Price that little part at Toyota. Also with money you save, go out and get a killer audio system.
This way you buy a nice car and have a lot of fun buying other things to make it nicer without spending as much as you would of if you had bought a XLE. Also, you probaly will not pass another Camry like it.
Here's the complaint department
The 4 cyl is the more typical external filter.
You can access the same thing online at:
Toyota i-Guide
BTW, just curious, on the '07 Camry Nav system, can you change the voice between male and female? I didn't see any mention of this option on the site or in the online manual.