2007 Toyota Camry

satire2

It's not priggly's opinion. It's sourced from the Wall Street Journal, and here it is, as picked up by Reuters:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlebusiness.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=n- T224910&imageid=&cap=&from=business

I have no dog in this fight. I'm someone who is interested in the car industry who has owned Camrys in the past and now happens to own two Subarus - a company which will soon be assembling Camrys for Toyota at its Indiana Legacy/Tribeca plant.

I've been following the Camry woes. It appears to be a classic example of too much expansion, too fast. It will be interesting to see what, if any, penalty Toyota pays for apparently letting quality slide.

I assume Honda will be the big winner, if the upcoming Accord is screwed together properly and is properly engineered.

pat

Priggly has proven his point. But these articles are not about Camrys and this is not the right place for discussion of Toyota's troubles as a manufacturer.

There are a number of Toyota-related discussions over in Automotive News & Views to pursue this. One easy way to find them is click on that link and then use your browser's Find function for "Toyota". You'll see a number of discussions you'll want to check out.

Thanks!

mcdawgg

Don't let that stop you - it is never too late to learn! Then you get a little better mpg, and less potential problems, because automatics from any manufacturer are less reliable than manual transmissions.

beantown

because automatics from any manufacturer are less reliable than manual transmissions.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this has to be the most inaccurate statement ever made....

mcdawgg

And I would completely disagree!! Please go to message #769 of "The Future of the Manual Transmission." We should continue this debate there. Back to the Camry.

beantown

And I would completely disagree!! Please go to message #769 of "The Future of the Manual Transmission." We should continue this debate there. Back to the Camry.

I'm confused. You refer to a post of one person's opinion that a mannual tranny is better, on page 42 of a 60 page thread (of which most of pages 43-60 appear to discredit everything you say). Not sure where reliability comes into play there.

Either way, how about this: Camry auto trannys are known to last 300,000+ miles with minimal maintenance. Show me one clutch that will last that long.

mcdawgg

Clutches will last at least 175,000 IF driven properly. Then, it is around $800 to replace. How much does it cost to repair an automatic? I know people who have spent in excess of $1,500 to repair their automatics, and they have failed well below 175,000 miles. Honestly, in all my reading and experiences, you are one of the very few people who believes that automatics are more durable. Just my OPINION and experiences. This is my last post in this forum about this topic. Let's discuss elsewhere - back to Camry.

From what I am seeing on the net, the only Camry I would consider from a reliability standpoint is a manual. The new automatics seem to have a lot of problems. And Honda automatics still scare me too.

mboliver

Believe me, they are bad here too! And getting worse all the time! Good luck! Keep us posted on what you decide to do. I am sure you will be fine in the end.

caddyjohn

Califfam said: "No (Kiawah) I was going to buy a Camry V6 but got the Acura instead because of oil canister issue."

An overreaction. I just had my first OC on my 07 V6 XLE at 4992 miles. Watched the whole thing at a trusted quicklube place. The manager quipped that many cars are going to this because it leaks less than a spin-on. The jockeys knew what they were doing. The Camry canister is shaped to accept a normal oil filter wrench, the type that fits on the end. It also has a recess that appears to take a 3.8 socket extension directly, as if the canister were itself a socket. So the design was cool. :shades:

The Camry oil filter came with replacement seals for both the canister and the oil filler plug! Rubber O-Rings. So your canister gets a new seal at every OC, which emulates a spin-on. And so does the oil fill plug.

I think that this is a great idea. And my quicklube guys got it right the first time and did not mind at all.

k128

I would like to buy a Camry with VSC, my (NY) dealer says on 4 cylinder cars it only comes on XLE's, although the Toyota brochure lists it as an option on all models.

Is the dealer right or just trying to sell me a more expensive car?

lmacmil

Different build combinations are available in different regions. It may be that in your region, VSC is not available on a 4 cyl LE.

kiawah

I ordered VSC on 4 cyl LE, not real typical of the south inventory, but did receive it in about 4 weeks. Try Fitzmall in DC, a lot of vehicles in that area are ordered w/VSC.

jaxs1

That doesn't sound right at all. You "ordered" it and got it in 4 weeks? VSC must have been available in the area and was in process of being built and they simply reserved the car for you.
An option combination is available in a region or it is not. It is black and white yes or no.
If they have made a change to allow each buyer to pick and choose standalone options to order, then that is new and you are the first person to post here that they actually received a customized order made specially for them.

k128

I tried a few zipcodes on toyota.com / build your vehicle and it looks like it is indeed dependent on where you buy the car.

I'm clearly not a marketing person: in DC you can get VSC on an LE, but I live in a place with 7 foot of snow per year and can only get it if also buy the moonroof, leather and bluetooth...

It's a pitty, this VSC seems such a good idea, and fairly easy money for the manufacturer too: a few sensors (most of it was there for ABS anyway) and some smart software.

njerald

Fitzmall in Gaithersburg NY lists at least 10 LE's with VSC instock on their internet site.

If you aren't ready to travel to buy or spend some time researching through the Toyota site with different zip codes, then listen to your dealer.

kiawah

It's been a while, but here's more detail from what I remember. I had wanted VSC, since the car will ultimately be going up north in the future with a relatively new driver, and seemed like a reasonable safety expenditure particularly over the number of years I tend to keep vehicles. In the SouthEast on the Toyota website, you can see all of the South inventory. There were no shipped cars in dealer inventory w/VSC, and as I recall approximately 8 vehicles planned to be made w/VSC, of which only a couple in the color I wanted. None had the complete option packages I wanted.

I placed an order with the dealer to get a car w/VSC and options I wanted, whenever they could. I continued to track the online southeast inventory, and then saw one LE vehicle show up in my color and options combination. A little while later it got assigned to my dealer, so I knew when it was going to be built and when I could expect delivery. I don't remember how long it took in each of these steps.

What the dealer and/or SouthEast area process is behind the scenes, I have no idea. But I ended up with the car I wanted, with the color and features I wanted, at the price I was willing to pay.

Now if only the cruise control was fixed, and the hesitations went away....

coby5

I have had my new car for 2 months, and I have washed it about 7 times. My question is when do I need to first wax my car. The color is black and I know black
tends to fade faster than other colors. Thanks

njerald

A month ago.

I Zainoed mine (2 coats)the first week. Been 4 months and should do it again.

oilpatch

Has anybody had any of the discussed problems with the 4cyl manual transmission model CE?

poorcruzer

The first day you had it. I have found The MOTHERS three step process is excellent. You only have to do the first step once a year.

Step 1--scratch and old wax remover

Step 2-- Wet look glaze

Step 3-- Carnuba wax coating for deep lasting shine and protection.

Try it. :shades:

lmacmil

Your dealer probably waxed it before delivery. After 7 washings, you may want to do it again with your favorite wax. Some people are pretty fanatic about waxing. If the water still beads nicely, then it probably doesn't really need it.

newxc90fan

For the DIY's: Has anyone attempted to change the oil filter on their 07 Camry V6? Curious on how it went.

sammya_md

hey, I was looking on toyota's site for the inventory as you mentioned, but was unable to find it. Could you provide a link? I ordered a car, and would like to try and search around like you did

Thanks

kiawah

Go to the Toyota website, choose camry, and go to build a vehicle....putting in a zipcode from the southeast (like 27609). When you build a vehicle, vclick the button "click here to view inventory"....even to where you can focus on features of cars. You have the option to see existing dealers, or across the southeast. The records are down to the VIN number.

I'm told that not all areas of the country have this same capability, why.....I don't know.

mboliver

Does anyone have an FM Tranmitter that fits well in the Camry for their ipod nano? I like the one in the brochure...as far as looks go but don't know who makes it or how good it is....anyone have a recommendation? I would like to get one before my car comes in. Thanks!!!

jbollt

You don't need an FM transmitter. The Camry has an AUX input. Just need a male/male mini-plug cable avail at WalMart or other places for just a few bucks ($5)

mboliver

Great, Thanks!

sammya_md

thanks for your help..i guess they dont' have it in my zip, but I used yours, and found they only have 1 car that I was looking for (just a 5 sp manual SE). Pretty interesting. I ordered on from my dealer here, guess that explains the lack of being able to tell me an expected (roughly) date i will receive it

matchster2k

Hi everyone,

I don't know much about cars, but I have a new Camry 2007 V6 XLE. I asked the salesman what gas to use, and he said regular (87) is fine. Does the car need better than that, or is 87 perfectly fine for the engine? Will better gas be *bad* for the engine??

Thanks

210delray

If you don't know much, you owe it to yourself to read the owner's manual. In it, you will find that 91 (or 92) octane is preferred for optimal performance for the V6, but the car will run fine (and not be damaged) by using 87 octane.

For the 4-cylinder (which I have), 87 is preferred.

matchster2k

Hi, thanks for the informative reply. I had checked the manual before and it said "Select Octaine Rating 87 (Research Octane Number 91) or higher". It didnt seem to differentiate between V4 and V6. Also, it says "or higher" which is confusing as I am not sure how "high" to go...

Perhaps I am on the wrong page, but I used the "fuel" entry in the index to find that information.

matchster2k

Actually I just called the service guy at the Toyota dealership and he recommends regular 87 for the V6 as higher grade fuel is a little too rich and burns hotter, causing more engine problems down the line..

evandro

... it says "or higher" which is confusing as I am not sure how "high" to go.

It says "higher" as in nothing lower than 87 octane.

And you can go as high as you want, as long as only automotive gas is used. 100+ octane gas available for aircraft or marine engines cause irreparable damage to automotive engines.

HTH

evandro

The service guy is a misinformed technician who doesn't know the products he works on.

What he said is true for carburetor engines designed for 87 octane. As such engines haven't been made in the US in the last 20 or 30 years, he's nothing but repeating an outdated myth.

The Toyota V6 was designed for 91 octane and using this gas it can reach its advertised HP rating. However, the engine computer will change the tuning if 87 octane gas is used and protect the engine against damage, at the expense of about 10% less power.

If any engine equipped with a catalytic converter burned rich, it would damage it and cost the manufacturer a repair bill of over $1000 for each occurrence, as the emissions equipment is typically by law guaranteed for longer than the rest of the powertrain. There are a few sensors in an engine just to guarantee that the mixture is just right almost all of the time, no matter which automotive gas is used.

HTH

kdhspyder

The Toyota V6 was designed for 91 octane and using this gas it can reach its advertised HP rating. However, the engine computer will change the tuning if 87 octane gas is used and protect the engine against damage, at the expense of about 10% less power.

This is accurate, which is why the Owner's Manual says '.. for improved performance..' If one wants the full power of 268 horses then use 91 octane. If one is more concerned with the cost of fuel and 240 hp is perfectly sufficient for everyday driving there is no reason not to use 87 octane.

eddiecruz

Interesting article for those whom are looking into buying a 2007 Camry.

http://www.car.com/content/shared/articles/templates/index.cfm/article_id_int/14- 81


:confuse: :confuse:

ray_h1

There's a little confusion about octane ratings in this discussion because there're TWO rating systems. So-called "pump" ratings are what are posted on the pump in the U.S. The other rating system is the calculated "research" rating. (may be a factor in other countries for consumers, but not in the U.S.) An 87 pump octane rating is equivalent to 91 research octane. Mid-grade 89 pump octane is equivalent to 93 research octane. Premium 91 pump octane is equivalant to 95 research octane. At one time stations intermingled the different ratings for competitive reasons, but the Feds finally stepped in and leveled the playing field to the conservatively numbered "pump" octane ratings. If your car doesn't ping on unleaded 87 pump octane, there's no justification to run a costlier grade of gasoline. (unless you enjoy funding oil executives' multi-hundred million dollar retirement packages) All grades available in the U.S. have to meet a federal minimum for blended detergent additives. Some "Top-Tier" status brands claim extra fuel system coponent protection. Whether that claim is justified or hype is for each car owner to decide for him/her self. If your engine does ping, and it's rated for 87 pump octane, either you got a load of poor gasoline or somethin's outa whack with your engine management system and sensors. (The first point can often lead to the second one.) Stick with known brands and stations which have a high turnover rate to avoid "stale" gasoline or substandard "imported" gasoline brought in by wildcat truckers during this time of $3.00+/gallon gasoline. The out-of-the-way general store with an unbranded pump isle is an invitation for trouble. Two more points. Higher octane gasoline burns more slowly, which is why it retards pinging. Pinging tendency is additionally problematic at higher elevations, so keep that in mind when traveling. The longer burning period results in slightly additional power, but I'm admittedly skeptical of the claim that the Camry's 268 hp V6 makes 28 hp less with 87 pump octane. That's a 10%+ drop. I'd think such a power decrease would also be reflected in a corresponding fuel useage increase - but maybe I'm oversimplifying. In any case, the one time I tried 91 pump octane in my V6 car (not a Camry), I measured at most a 3% fuel economy improvement. In my opinion, a gain of 10 hp at the crankshaft from the use of unleaded premium would be pushing it with perhaps a net gain of ~5 hp at the driving wheels after accounting for parasitic losses in the drivetrain. As always, your mileage may vary...

lmacmil

I can tell you that in my 3.3 liter Camry V6 (which says the same thing in the owner's manual), I got about 2 mpg better mileage with premium than regular. Of course, the increased cost of premium offset the increased mileage but I liked the higher mileage number better.

Karen_S

A large local newspaper is looking to interview consumers who have recently went away from purchasing a Ford and decided on a Toyota, Honda or Nissan vehicle instead. Please send an e-mail to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Wednesday, September 6, 2006 by 5:30 PM PT/8:30 PM ET containing your daytime contact information.

Thanks,
Chintan Talati
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

matchster2k

Ah I see. That was alot of useful information, thanks for all your replies, guys. I will stick with 87 pump octane, then, because I don't need the extra performance and since the engine will be protected by my Camry's computer, it should all be fine

Cheers!

priggly

From the article:

"For years, our editors have been noticing a general degradation of build and materials quality in Japanese cars, but we’ve always written such observations off as oddities given the exceptional attention to detail these brands have historically exhibited. With our test sample, a 2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6 with less than 3,000 miles on the odometer, it’s time for us to stop making excuses. This test sample, more than any in recent memory, served to underscore that the domestics have made great strides in build quality, while vaunted brands like Toyota are beginning to struggle."

kdhspyder

One review out of many many glowing ones. It's good for balance. It keeps the perspective balanced. One reviewer with a detroiter preference won't change the experiences of millions of current owners who read his review and say, 'Huh? what's he talking about.'

People buy from their past experiences mostly and word of mouth from family and friends. These are the two most important factors. If a current owner is happy with the current vehicle the replacement is likely to be from the same family.

There are likely 5 Million or more current owners of Camry's, Corolla's and Avalons out there who love their vehicles - I admit I am one - having had no problems for years and years. One reviewer's words aren't going to impact my decision in the least. It doesn't ring true. It actually seems planted.

To wit.
"For years, our editors have been noticing a general degradation of build and materials quality in Japanese cars,"

Well the editors might feel that way but current Accord. Prius, Camry, Civic owners might beg to differ.

But again it's good to have a perspective from the detroiters to keep things in balance.

evandro

People buy from their past experiences mostly and word of mouth from family and friends.

That's why reputation takes a long time to catch up with the facts. It was so before Toyota led the car segment, and it might as well be the case now, only in the opposite direction.

evandro

... there're TWO rating systems.

Actually, three. There's Research Octane Number (RON) and Motor Octane Number (MON). The octane number at the pump is the average of both these numbers.

In Europe, RON is used instead.

ray_h1

I did not know that. Thank you.

aburd

What's the car.com connection to the 'detroiters' that you imply? Autobytel.com owns car.com, and it's headquartered in Irvine, CA. Other car.com reviews don't seem to have a pro-Detroit bias.

At any rate, I doubt that planted 'detroiters' were responsible for the poor showing of the Camry in the car.com review. There is plenty of evidence (anecdotal and published) that the halo of that car needs some polishing.

ray_h1

))"Has anyone attempted to change the oil filter on their 07 Camry V6? Curious on how it went."((

Why not see for yourself? The car showcased is an Avalon, but it uses the same V6 engine that the new Camry uses. (You'll need Adobe Reader or Acrobat for the linked pdf file.)

kdhspyder

His wording shows his bias. It's not difficult to read between the lines.

This test sample, more than any in recent memory, served to underscore that the domestics have made great strides in build quality, while vaunted brands like Toyota are beginning to struggle.

Struggle? The plant is sold out with nearly no inventory in stock on dealers lots ( less than 15 day supply ). This is not the characteristic of a struggling brand/nameplate. It might be wishful thinking by competitors or others with a 'domestics' preference.

This review flies in the face of nearly all the other reviews to date, whether 'professional' or personal. But as I noted before it's good for balance.

caddyjohn

"general degradation...quality" -- car.com libel of Toyota Camry.

I am not as happy with the 07 Camry's build quality as I should be. The sunglass storage door is warped and slightly crooked. The push-doors below the AC and where the second 12V outlet are stick. My daughter, who is petite and thin, managed to lockup the rear seat belt and I have to have it serviced. There are a couple of small rattles on VERY low mileage.

I expect perfection on cars, especially Toyota and Lexus (of which I have had both). This is my third Camry, and the other two were not as nicely appointed for sure, but they seemed to be built better.

But cosmetics and rattles don't equate to "general degradation." And my 07 XLE V6 still runs rings around the initial delivery quality of my wife's 04 Ford Freestar.

As for build materials quality, I think that the fake wood in the XLE is cheesy, but it is the highest quality fake wood I've ever seen. I am in the planning stages of replacing the fake wood with genuine birdseye, and I don't mean that cheesy no-quality stickon stuff. I found the rattle (top center AC Vent fixture, and when I put the nav in, I will quash that with a touch of foam tape.

Toyota needs to get a grip on QC issues. But, from what I read elsewhere, they are stopping production on several models to iron out all QC issues. So they're on it. Is car.com biased? Dunno. But the "general degradation" comment borders on libel.

evandro

"domestics have made great strides in build quality, while vaunted brands like Toyota are beginning to struggle."

Struggle? The plant is sold out...

The author means that Toyota's quality is beginning to suffer, not its sales.

Blind faith in a product brand is a poor buying decision.