2007 Toyota Camry

jrock65

I agree. They should put the 3.5 GR in the Camry and detune it.

Something like:

Camry V6: 255 hp

Avalon: 268 hp

ES350: 280 hp

IS350: 306 hp

GS350: 306 hp

chris65amg

Those numbers seem good to me. That would mean that the GS460 would have to have 350 hp or more. That's why I'm inclined to think that the GS350 will "only" have 280 or so.

I don't know, just a hunch of mine. 300 hp breaks a psychological barrier, though, so they may want to keep the GS350 above it.

maxamillion1

I dunno about that.

Nissan/Infiniti models all share the basic V6 (3.5-4.0 status) and the same V8s in some models and they aren't really having problems as far as marketing is concerned.

I mean a lowly Altima can share the same engine as a M35. Folks don't seem to be caring because the power ratings are all different for each of them.

lmacmil

"Nissan/Infiniti models all share the basic V6 (3.5-4.0 status) and the same V8s in some models and they aren't really having problems as far as marketing is concerned."

You're right. I guess the average consumer only looks at hp ratings and not engine architecture.

I looked at the Toyota engine specs and found some interesting info. The 3.0, 3.3, and 3.5 all have the same stroke which means they can share crankshaft and con rods (assuming bore centers are the same on the 3.5 and the 3.0/3.3. The 3.5 and 4.0 engines have the same bore so they share the same pistons.

This is the kind of cross-platform sharing that Toyota, et al are so good at and gives them a cost advantage over the domestic OEMs. I don't think the typical Ford model shares anything from one model to another and I have even heard Ford people complain about it.

maxellman

Of course it is 3.5 V6, same engine as the ES350. 6 Speed for the Camry SE V6.

nippononly

"I don't think the typical Ford model shares anything from one model to another and I have even heard Ford people complain about it."

Well, except the Duratec 3.0 V-6, which it uses in half a dozen different models, including the Jaguar X-Type...

So I guess the folks here have pretty much discarded the notion that there might continue to be TWO different V-6s used in the Camry, one for the SE and the other for the rest? I like the idea of the SE getting the Avalon's engine in the same tune, which in a lighter car should be a hoot.

Toyota should make leather standard in the next XLE, since it is top of the line, and there is still another well-equipped model (the SE) if you prefer cloth seats. The XLE really isn't equipped well enough right now, given its sticker.

alpha01

Just as a clarification, the XLE V6 does have leather, moonroof, and alloys standard. The 4 cylinder has none of that. I say, make at least the alloys and moonroof standard, or just the alloys. I personally hate leather, and have zero issues taking a car without it.

Great combination of standard features, IMO: Accord LX V6- moonroof, cloth, 17 inch alloys, 244 horses, stability control.......for $25,5 including dest...

~alpha

210delray

We recently purchased an XLE 4-cylinder. The only option we got was side airbags. It's nicely equipped, but I really think alloys should have been standard. My wife and I both prefer cloth -- easier to maintain (as long as you don't eat in the car), warmer in winter, cooler in summer. Sunroof: nice, but I think it should remain an option on the 4-cylinder.

nippononly

Yeah, I know the XLE 4-cyl has none of that, and it is the top of the line 4-cylinder trim! It should have at least alloys, and lots of cars in that price range have leather now too. Moonroof should maybe be optional, I know some people don't like them.

As I said, if you want a lot of the XLE equipment without the leather, there is always the SE.

And darn it, if Toyota doesn't make the silly side curtain airbags standard for the next model, they will be shooting themselves in the foot! Every Camry I see on the lots now has the "optional" package that includes them.

alpha01

Its very subjective to opinion regarding trim equipment, but Honda has no problem selling plenty of Accord EX and EX V6 models with moonroof standard. The XLE does have a lot of features standard (such as rear sunshade, power passenger seat, JBL 6 disc in dash, etc), but some of the major ones are missing- alloys, moonroof, for example.

The SE and XLE are significantly different that I dont really consider them substitutes. The ride of the SE is noticeably firmer and handling better than in the bouyant XLE.

Dont worry, side curtains will be standard for the next generation.

~alpha

jchan2

don't forget the Power Sunroof is standard on all SE models too.

So I guess if you want to avoid the Sunroof, you'll be stuck driving a basic, stripped, hubcap laden, rental car looking, gasp, LE model...

210delray

No, you can get the XLE 4-cylinder like me (sans sunroof) and have a hubcap laden car. (But the hubcaps ARE nicer than the LE's.) But otherwise, the exterior appearance of the XLE is the same as the LE.

mmcgrady

Don't make the alloys standard. I much prefer steel wheels. If you like alloys you are certainly free to buy them as an option. But if they are standard equipment you cannot get steel wheels as an option.

carguy58

I thought the same thing to when I sat in a Camry at an Autoshow. I got in it and then got out of it. I just didn't like the interior. I like the interior of the current Solara though.

jchan2

Same here. I thought "geez. This car is boring"

My wife agreed.

It was a red 4 Cylinder LE with a gray cloth interior. Yawn. The most boringly equipped trim line of the most boring car in America.

lmacmil

"The most boringly equipped trim line of the most boring car in America."

Almost 400,000 buyers per year are willing to settle for a boring interior in exchange for bulletproof reliability. Anyway, one man's boring is another man's bland but acceptable.

My Olds Intrigue (which I sold when I got my SE-V6) interior was at least as boring as any Camry I've seen. Just miles and miles of gray hard plastic and cloth, some of which didn't even fit very well. It looked every bit the rental car that it had been. Great powertrain though.

jchan2

Personally for my money though, I'd rather have an Accord. It's still bland, but its not as boring and it has a double wishbone...

(I'm in the other 400,000ish that prefer the Honda Accord)

carguy58

I'd rather have the Mazda 6 in this class of cars. The interiors not the best I know but its decent.

larryt22

It is all in the eyes of the beholder. I guess I am use to buying boring but functional cars. My previous 2 cars were a Taurus and then a Malibu. The boring gray Camry LE interior is 10x more appealing and upscale than either of those models were. And the seats in the Camry are significantly more comfortable than either of those others or an Accord. I think a lot of the comfort has to do with the seating position which is higher than most other sedans. And the interior layout, although some might think is pretty bland, is laid out so well that if functions beautifully. I have had several Nissan, Honda and Saab owners compliment the interior as being very attractive.

I guess that is why there are so many make, models, colors and other options, as everybody has different tastes.

toycash

There are a couple other minor differences. The door moldings have a little chrome strip and you have fog lights.

jchan2

And I guess I'm used to Hondas. At least these past few years. In 97, 99, and 02, I've bought 3 different Hondas from 2 dealerships.

That's why there's so many different cars for sale... Different people have different tastes...

And there are some cars nobody (or a really small amount of people) likes... (cough cough Pontiac Aztek cough cough)

210delray

Oh yeah, I later remembered the little plasti-chrome strip embedded in the side moldings, but forgot completely about the fog lights. I make a point of NEVER using the latter, unless there really is fog (rare here, at least when I drive) or a hard rain at night (I'm not often out after dark in the warm months).

I can't stand people using fog lights in clear weather, ostensibly just to show off.

jrock65

The "lowly" 2006 RAV4 is getting the exact same 268 hp 3.5L GR found in the Avalon.

The 2007 Camry V6 will most likely get the same 268 hp engine.

The Camry inline 4 will probably get the same engine as well, meaning a hp boost from 154 hp to 166 hp.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2005/09/12/142667.html

kman87

I think the main advantage of using the same basic engine in most of your cars is not that it cuts costs; it's that you can focus all of your engineering, research, and development on one basic engine archetype, to improve your entire line-up at once. (off-topic) And Ford shares just as many parts as Toyota does, and their Duratec V6 is a pretty common sight in most of their vehicles, but that doesn't change the fact that it sucks. Every cent they have is going towards improving their trucks and SUVs, or they'll go under, so I'm not sure when we'll see something new...even their all-new Fusion is just using a 220-hp Duratec.

nippononly

can't see the RAV getting an engine the Camry doesn't get. Of course, this leaves the question of where the Highlander will be going for the next gen in about a year, but that is a WHOLE other story! :-)

Can you imagine the surprise if Toyota made a V-6 standard for the next generation? Something a little smaller than the 3.5 from the Avalon.

callmedrfill

You no that ain't happenin'.

But this Rav4 news is definitely CNN-material.

Does Honda throw the TL's 270HP Six into the next CR-V?

Does this mean Ford has to build a replacement for the Duratec? :surprise:

Do Mercedes fans bash Toyota for copying down SLK engine specs, feeding them into their cost-cutting machine, reinvigorating a dying Rav4 in the process?

If the 166HP Rav4 can get 27-28 MPG (combined), is the Mercury Mariner DOA? Does the Escape Hybrid RIP? Why not save $10k, and get some reliability to boot? I think the Rav4 can beat 9.5 sec 0-60, no?

The only question I have for Toyota is Can the Rav4 still be considered in the "Small SUV category", as they say, if it grows over a foot, and gains 3rd row seat capability?

DrFill

nippononly

the 2.5L V-6 from the new IS makes like 24/32 in that car, why not use it in the Camry as the base engine, but de-tune it some to add mpgs? Imagine if they could match the mpg of the current 4-cyl, with a V-6 making perhaps 10-15% more power. I mean, the Malibu really doesn't sell at all in the 4-cyl version, except to fleets. G6 won't either, I am sure. Ford 500 doesn't even offer a 4-cylinder. It's not such an outrageous thought.

callmedrfill

Using the 2.5 in the Rav4 as a base engine.

It would be hard for the CR-V to compete with two new V6's!

4 out of 5 Camrys are 4-bangers.

DrFill

toycash

I would say that's the most likely scenario also.

mikecapone

Hi all,

Not sure if this has been posted here - I don't quite feel like browsing 22 pages right now - but if is has been, sorry for the redudance:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/08/toyota_camry_hy.php

kdhspyder

The 4c engine, whatever its final configuration, will remain the standard no matter what high end engine is in the upscale version. One reason for the Camry's continuing success, as well as the Accord's, is that the vast majority of buyers do not want high performance.

I sell both. Well over 90% of buyers want the basic 4c Camry or Accord. There is also a LARGE segment that just want 4 wheels, 4 doors and a Camry engine and nothing else. As long as the Camry nameplate is on the back and it's made by Toyota thats all they need to know. In the current configuration the buying public made Toyota 'decontent' the basic Camry in midstream by taking OUT the full spare, power driver's seat and keyless entry. Common comments I also hear are:
- they ( Toyota ) should take out the CD player I'll never use it;
- I dont want these mats, I'll get my own;
- why cant they have manual locks and rollup windows like in the past, I dont want to pay for this 'extra stuff'.

Toyota will not mess with its success, nor will Honda. The American buying public is much more interested in worry-free reliability than performance.
From the front lines, FWIW.

kdhspyder

nippononly

I hear what you're saying, but in that case I have BIG expectations of Toyota as far as the fuel economy of the next 4-cyl Camry. A 2-point separation between the mpg of the 4-cyl and the V-6 is just not acceptable, IMO. Now if they could get the 4-cyl up by 3 or 4 points (what would that be? Say, around 27/37?), that would make it worth it to keep the 4-cyl as the base engine.

lmacmil

"A 2-point separation between the mpg of the 4-cyl and the V-6 is just not acceptable"

The EPA highway is 5 or 6 mpg better for the 4 vs the 6 (for the 2005 models). For most, that's probably enough for the performance hit (since most don't car about the extra performance of the V6 anyway.)

jchan2

The basics for me would be:
Power Windows, Mirrors, Locks
Cruise Control
a CD Player

The current Camry LE is fine as it is.

Remember, most people want the basics listed above. Very few are willing to compromise. That's why no Camry CE exists anymore. (although I'm sure some people would go for a CE)

nippononly

Oh yes, I know. But the Avalon is rated at 22/31 with the 3.5L V-6 we expect the Camry to get. And the Camry will be lighter, so it might even gain a point on that rating.

Meanwhile, the current 4-cyl is rated at 24/34. That is where I got the "2-point separation" remark. 24/34 vs 22/31 (or perhaps 22/32).

If there is going to be a V-6 Camry rated at 22/32 with almost 100 more hp than the 4-cyl, then I hope and expect the 4-cyl to move up to around 27/37. If it stands pat, we may see a shift in the mix of sales of fours and sixes in the Camry line for the next generation, who knows.

On a sidenote, I am also hoping they can get the V-6 PZEV-certified for the next gen, the way the 4-cyl is now here in California.

210delray

They added the so-called Standard model below the LE late in the 2004 model year. The deletions mentioned -- no full-size spare, no power driver seat, and no remote keyless -- apply only to the Standard. The LE (the former base model from 2002-early 2004) still has these features.

In the prior generation, there was a CE model, with roll-up windows, manual locks and mirrors, and no a/c, but I would bet that most CEs sold were equipped with these as options anyway.

BTW, my '05 Camry XLE came sans mats, but luckily I had an extra OEM set from before (in the right color), and the dealer threw in the trunk mat at no extra cost.

kman87

I miss the 4th gen. Camry CE. The first couple of years, you could even get it with a V6 and a manual transmission. I REALLY doubt that we'll see a V6 paired to a manual transmission in the 2007 Camry, but one can always hope.

1violinist

I know what you mean. This summer I test drove the Solara with manual tranny (4 cyl.) and the V6 auto, and told the salesguy: if you switch that manual tranny into the V6 I'll take it!!!

jchan2

My friend has a CE- with the option package that added Power Windows, Locks, A/C, and a CD Player.

He doesn't have remote entry though.

And his CE is a 4 cylinder.

kdhspyder

What you describe now is the 'standard' Camry ( no LE badge on the rear ) . By popular demand Toyota had to bring it out in 2004 in replacement of the CE. It has what you listed but..

no keyless entry
no power drivers seat
no full spare

Probably 20-30% of the buying public want this standard version - or even less; a good percentage also want no mats, no CD nor the power pckge. But if TMMK had to eliminate the latter two it might actually drive UP the cost of production so these latter two stay in.

kdhspyder

kdhspyder

When the new Camry came out in 2002 there were only an LE and XLE. They dropped the CE model in the new body style. The market rebelled..

The 2002 Basic LE had - and still has - power everything..CD, keyless, power drivers seat and full spare. In 2004 the buying public made Toyota create the 'standard' CAMRY - note the LE is gone from the rear end - without keyless, no power drivers seat and only a donut spare. This decontenting was price driven - people didnt want to pay for this stuff.

kdhspyder

hondaconvert1

Yep, that is my 2005 STD Camry 5 speed manual, which is 100% build in Japan according to VIN first letter (J), but I am thinking of trading it in for an 2006 Limited Avalon... tough decision though knowing that the new 2007 Hybrid Camry is coming out but unsure if they will make a Hybrid Camry I4 and if the price range will be in the mid $20k's or upper $20k's... (my speculation is a base of $25k-$27k).

jchan2

If both are the same, why not call it the Toyota Camry CE?

I guess Toyota wanted to save the cost of printing the "CE" badges......

chris65amg

I can't see why, they use CE on the Corolla and Sienna....

lmacmil

That's quite a jump from a base Camry to an Avalon Limited. There's no economic payback on most hybrids given the premium over the non-hybrid version.

bobob20032000

Toyota is trying to find ways to cut the high premiums from 5K to about 2.5K

jchan2

Maybe the people in their focus group said they wanted the "LE" badges off of the cars too.....

alpha01

what? why? where did you read that? seems strange

~alpha

210delray

I'm pretty sure he's joking. But it is a puzzle why the base Camry was called a "Standard" and not a CE, as had been used in the prior generation.

bobob20032000

I guess it is the same thing. The Camry tried to appeal to people who would buy an Accord DX so they reintroduced a stripped version of the Camry. The CE got discontinued starting year 2002 and the Standard got introduced when the 2005 Camry got refreshed.

Is there going to be a Standard/Ce on the 2007 Toyota Camry?

The 2007 Toyota Camry should get the 3.5 V6 or the improved versions of the 3.3 V6. The Rav4 would get it but not many buyers would buy it as they will buy the I4. But i think Toyota will give all their cars the 3.5 V6 and the size of the car would justify the price.