Insurance and NJ No-Point Ticket option

frolet

It's unbelievable... I wish I had found this site earlier.

I got a ticket for going 7 miles over the limit in NJ. Cop said it carries two pts, but if I plead not guilty they will waive the points down to zero. Didn't mention ANYTHING about 250 dollar surcharge, etc. So I didn't want to waste a vacation day in court, and submitted a not guilty plea by affadavit. I get back the verdict yesterday, found guilty of Unsafe Driving, zero pts, $156 fine, $33 court costs, $250 surcharge!!! $439 for 7 over! The original ticket was only 85 bucks!

Now I find that the points may not even count towards my PA insurance! Even if they do, I'd rather pay my insurance company than the state of NJ... Can I appeal this, and then just plead guilty to the original charge? I believe I can request a new trial, I really don't feel like paying $439.

tidester

Can I appeal this, and then just plead guilty to the original charge?

Interesting question! You want to withdraw your guilty plea which cost you $439 without points and replace it with a guilty plea that will cost you $85 plus points that won't cross state lines. Generally, I think it is difficult to withdraw a guilty plea after the fact. It will be interesting to see whether anyone else has actually tried that.

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frolet

Interesting question! You want to withdraw your guilty plea which cost you $439 without points and replace it with a guilty plea that will cost you $85 plus points that won't cross state lines. Generally, I think it is difficult to withdraw a guilty plea after the fact. It will be interesting to see whether anyone else has actually tried that.

But I pleaded NOT GUILTY through the affadavit. The judge found me guilty, but according to the letter they sent, I can appeal. By doing so I think I get a new trial, but I will have to go in person But if I have a new trial, I get to enter a new plea, right?

I think the whole process is very misleading, the cop just said I would get the points dropped by pleading not guilty, didn't mention that it would cost me an additional $354 dollars to do so. If I knew the cost, I would have gladly paid the 85 bucks 2/pts, I only pleaded not guilty bc he said they would be dropped. Plus now I'll incur additional court fees, but hey another 30 bucks beats paying the full $354.

tidester

Omigosh! I misread your original post. Sorry about that.

I guess it just didn't make sense to me that the officer would advise pleading not guilty to get the points removed.

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frolet

I guess it just didn't make sense to me that the officer would advise pleading not guilty to get the points removed.

I think the incentive for him to say that is the overtime pay he gets for showing up at the court date. Of course he didn't get that bc I submitted my plea by mail. The entire system absolutely disgusts me, it's just a big moneymaking scam. Like the other poster said, it's like blackmail, except they legalized it...basically you "buy down" your points.

tidester

I think the incentive for him to say that is the overtime pay he gets for showing up at the court date.

It almost sounds like he's misleading you into not showing up for the hearing so he can make his case to the judge without having to defend it.

Is there any possibility that you misunderstood what he said?

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frolet

It almost sounds like he's misleading you into not showing up for the hearing so he can make his case to the judge without having to defend it.

Is there any possibility that you misunderstood what he said?

Nah, no way I misheard. He made it sound like the pts were just a formality, like they would be dropped instantly by pleading not guilty. I decided to do the write in plea for two reasons: I don't live near the area and didn't want to take a day off work, and I also didn't want to give the cop overtime pay for showing up - If you plea by mail, the cop submits his side in writing as well, but doesn't get paid extra $ for doing so... if you show up at court, he gets a nice fat overtime check to do the same.

I did a little search on the judge in my case, he's notorious for pushing the Unsafe Driving plea... he presides over 8 districts in NJ because he makes the state so much money with this scam. Basically they pressure people into taking the Unsafe Driving charge, since the cash penalty is 5 times higher than Speeding...most will do it because the points are waived.

I'm calling the court today, hopefully they will just let me pay the $85 and take the pts. without having to go through the appeals process. I'll likely have to pay the $33 in court costs, but I hope that's it. If I appeal I believe it's $75 additional, plus "transcript costs" (unspecified amount).

qbrozen

well, 2 possibilities. 1 is that he was just being a "nice guy" and letting him know that he could go without points. of course, if he really wanted to be nice, he could have let him off with a warning or cited him for a non-point offense.

the other possibility is that the cop knows well enough that the plea-bargain will result in more income to waste, thereby justifying raises all around. ;b

fezo

Of course in the original post is a very important word - may. As in the points may not count on his PA license. On the other hand, they may indeed count in which case the cop was offering a way out of greater expense.

BTW - the cop doesn't necessarily get overtime for this. I had one of these where the cop was on duty and they contacted him from court. He doesn't have to be there. That one also didn't cost much more than if I had pleaded guilty.

tidester

As in the points may not count on his PA license.

Right. However, the OP found that out after the fact. The policeman asserted that a guilty plea will waive the points.

We'll see what happens when Frolet tells us what he found out.

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frolet

well I called the court yesterday, the clerk was very reasonable, I explained what the cop told me, and how he left out the part about paying an additional $350+ to get the pts waived. She even said that it was an insane amount of money. I told her I'd rather take the pts, she was going to set up a new court date, but I requested to do it by mail. So she's mailing me another affadavit, I will fill it out and plead guilty, request the speeding conviction, rather than unsafe driving. My guess is that if all goes well I'll have to pay the $85 plus $66 in court costs (they already charged me $33, so I figure I have another $33 coming). $151 beats $439, though not as good as the $85 I would've paid for just pleading guilty in the first place. But I'll chaulk up the extra $66 as a learning experience... I learned that traffic laws are in place not for drivers' safety, but to make up for government's reckless spending. :P

I'll post again when I get this whole ordeal finalized. Thanks for all the help, like I said I wish I found this forum earlier!

fezo

Oh, do keep us posted. This is the type of case we all learn new things from. We're grateful even though we wouldn't wish your predicament on anyone.

I'll hate myself for asking, but were you really only going 7 over the limit? If so the cop is more of a problem than I've originally stated.

mgags23

I got 2 tickets, one in '05 for speeding and one in 06 for a fender bender. I pleaded both down to 'unsafe driving' which had the fines from hell, but no points. I just got married and was calling both of our insurance companies to see who would offer the better rate. When I called her company they said they were picking up these tickets in their system so my premiums would be sky high. I then noticed that my premiums with my company just went up and when I called and asked they said they just picked up on the tickets.

My questions:
How after a year since the second ticket is my company just picking up on it?
I thought by pleading it down to unsafe for 0 points that I would not receive a surcharge on my insurance??

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

qbrozen

raised premiums and a surcharge are not the same thing. An insurance company can change your premiums based on your hair color if they so choose. A surcharge is that which is imposed by the state and is a separate fine from your insurance premiums.

As far as when the premiums went up, insurance companies usually don't take note of tickets until renewal time when they run a check on your license again. So if you get a ticket, let's say April 1st, that you then need to go to court for 45 days later and may post to your license another couple of weeks after that ... but you renew your insurance May 20th, they have not seen that ticket yet because it hasn't posted to your license. They won't see it till the following May 20th when renewal time comes around again.

kemzo

I was pulled over by a cop in the parkway (woodbridge Area)NJ on 10/28, I was going for an Emergency Blood pick-up and it was writen on the car also (EMERGENCY BLOOD PICKUP) and he said his radar clocked me while i was passing a truck on the left lane at 85 on 55 road and this truck was in the left lane and i was in the middle lane, he immedietly switch to the middle lane and slooow down and i was a fool to try to pass him on the left lane (I bellive the truck had a radar detector). He gave me 30 over the speed limit and i was so polite to him (5points?) . my driving record is clean, never been pull over before, and i dont have any points. My Question is... what will be the best thing to do? I also spoke to a lawyer at plea bargain.com that wants $425? (maybe he's only going to ask for a plea deal) I dont have alot of money, even thoe the lawyer offered to split the payments. Can i go to court by myself? (mind you am black) or do you know of a cheaper method?. Thanks... Am asking all this because this is my first time... thanks
another thing...... The cop was advicing me to make the payment online and that i dont have to go to court. And if i dicide to pay the lawyer, the ticket, and the court cost, do i have to pay surcharge? can a 5 point affect my Auto Insurance? And also I just renew Insurance for another 6 months. thanks...

kemzo

Can a five pointer brought to zero? 240+250+30? or reduce it to 2 points and go to traffic school for the remaining 2? how can I request for a traffic school? And last if they only reduce 5 points to 2, do i still have to pay the $250 surcharge.

qbrozen

mind you am black

I'm speechless. Honestly. I have no idea why this needed mentioning or what bearing is has on the issue.

But, moving on, as for the cost/points problem, I would dress in my best suit, get ready to be as cordial as possible, and go to court. Plead not guilty and speak with the prosecutor. Explain, nicely, your duties in the blood biz. MAYBE you'll get zero points and pay a heck of a big fine, or, and this may not be the worst case, get a 2-point unsafe driving offense. Pay a much smaller fine. Then find a state-supported driver's ed course that you can take one saturday. You'll get a certificate once complete and you can mail a copy to your insurance company. If you truly have a clean driving record all this time, I'm sure your insurance company will be nice to you.

Mind you, a driving course does NOT remove points from your insurance record, only your license record. So, in the end, you will have 0 points as far as the state is concerned, but you will have 2 points for the next 3 years as far as your insurance company is concerned.

the state only charges a surcharge when you surpass 4 points on your license.

kemzo

I'm speechless. Honestly. I have no idea why this needed mentioning or what bearing is has on the issue.

Thanks for your reply.... Well it's profiling... Even thoe I've never had any issues with the law or ever had a bad record on my driving, some bellive that we are the same. The day they gave me the ticket, was SUNDAY @ 8:00AM and i was already out working. So i dont need a lawyer for this first offens right? Cos i dont have a lot of money and am expecting my first baby boy at anytime this month. I can't sleep at night for this.

tidester

I was going for an Emergency Blood pick-up and it was writen on the car ...

I'm not sure that would be a viable defense. If it were an emergency then you (or your organization) could have called ahead for a police escort. It may help you only to the extent that the jurisdiction may want to avoid a public relations embarrassment.

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fezo

I agree with most of qbrozen's post. Dress up for court, be very nice and talk to the prosecutor. Explain the situation as you've done here and hope for the best. The odds are very good that whatever you get nailed with at the end will be less than if you pled guilty.

Where I part company a little with q is the race issue. While I believe that there are a lot of jurisdictions where it won't matter I don't know enough about where you were stopped to make a judgment. Even not knowing that my basic advice stays the same. Dress nice, be polite, be straightforward that you would like to plead to a non-moving violation.

I know there have been some profiling issues on the toll roads in NJ but you are now moving over to the court which is a different story.

Let us know how it turns out.

kemzo

Thanks fezo... It's in Woodbridge NJ, Am always nice to people naturaly and i've traveled alot. I've lived in Rome (Italy) for 10 years, i've met alot of different kind of people so i'll know how to behave. And I know that mentioning profiling is not realy nice, but in the back of our minds, it has been there and its always gonna be there. Even the Cop who stop me, was thinking i've stole that car, because he start asking me if i realy work for the state and so i show him my employee ID and he went back to his car and brought me a present of 30 miles over the speed limit even thoe i dont think i was going that fast and for the mere fact that he gave me the max fine.

kemzo

Do Progressive Insurance raise your primium for having 2 points? I dont wanna call and ask them. ??? they will be suspicious???

qbrozen

i don't know why people are always afraid to ask their insurance company. I mean, what do you think they will do?? They can't raise your rates because you asked them a question. They can't raise your rates because you MAY get a ticket. They will only raise your rates when the final verdict comes down the line and they reassess your policy at renewal time.

kemzo

qbrozen.... Trust me if i was a Rep for an Insurance company, and you call and ask about that, I'll look you up or keep an eye on your Account.

qbrozen

and do what?
I mean, do you think they'd overlook it if you didn't point it out to them? Heck no. They are catching it no matter what, so it really doesn't hurt to ask now.

It is just as if you were car shopping and wanted to compare insurance rates on different cars. It is not like they are going to start charging you extra for the cars you considered purchasing.

kemzo

UPDATE!
I went to court today, and the possequtor reduce my point from 5 to 2 and i was so nervous that i forgot to ask for the no point option. my original offence was 85 in a 55 zone and he gave me 69 in a 55. He didn't let me explain anything, he first told me that he's gonna give me 4 instead of 5 and i almost cried and while writing he said ok I'll give you 69 in a 55. I want to enroll in a traffic school class on sunday 11/25. My question is, Is it early to enroll?, Is my Deal Good? All in All I paid $189 instead of $.240+5 points . Thanks

frolet

Follow up:

My court date was yesterday, I couldn't take off work, so I put in another affadavit; this time pleading guilty to the original speeding charge (w 2 pts) and explaining how the cop never mentioned the $350 additional cost of getting the pts dismissed. I logged on to the njmcdirect website today, and my amount due has been reduced from $439 to $118! $85 plus $33 court costs, much more reasonable. If my insurance rates go up, so be it. I'd rather pay the insurance company than the corrupt and wasteful NJ government... :shades:

fezo

What if it's a corrupt and wasteful insurance company?

Hey, go with what works for you. Maybe the insurance company offers a cheap defensive driving course to keep the points away. Never hurts to ask.

sashaa

I am NY driver who received a ticket in NJ. I have already gone to court twice. Prosecutor is not willing to reduce it to a no-point violation. First time the cop showed up but they reschedule it to come two weeks ago. The second time cop didn't show up, and contrary to popular believe that my ticket will be automatically cut off, they reschedule it again two weeks later. Interestingly, I spoke again to prosecutor, but he is still adamant guy, and wasn't willing to help in any way.

So my next trip to court is in 3 days, and I am not willing to hire an attorney, any last minute tips would be appreciated.
---
Here is my original mail, written back in August regarding my violation:

I received a ticket today for "careless driving" in NJ. I was going maybe a little over 65 (in a 65 zone), and a cop pulled me over. He asked if I knew why I was I pulled. I replied, "not really, please explain." He said that I was going over 65, and he had detected it on his radar. I explained that, I didn't think he was correct, because I had not remembered seeing it and was going with a flow (even though those are speculations, I'm fairly convinced about my speed at the time). He took my license and registration and went to write a ticket. When he returned, he said that he didn't want me to get 4 points and wrote me a ticket for careless driving. I have a suspicion that the radar didn't register me to begin with. I just got very unlucky.

I don't agree with the ticket nor violation in general, and feel the right way is to fight it in court. It is actually my first driving violation, not sure if it matters here.

P.S. later in court I found out that that he registered 82 on the radar....

Please suggest what is the best course of action.

Thank you all for your help.

qbrozen

This last little bit has me really confused... "later in court I found out that that he registered 82 on the radar."

What do you mean by this?? Does it not say so on your ticket? I've never heard a story like this before. I don't see how they can state this if it is not on your ticket.

Why are you so worried about the 2 points anyway? You're wasting all this time and energy and you will pay more money than the original ticket ... all for what? Will NY even recognize the points? I think this has been answered here before, and I think the answer was no.

sashaa

well, on the ticket is says that voilation is for careless driving and check-boxed as speeding.

The thing is I am still have NY license and my car is registered in NY, but I'll be moving to NJ next month and curious how will that affect me.

You're certainly right about wasting money and time....

qbrozen

hmmm... well, I'm not sure how it will affect you. My guess is, it won't. This isn't exactly the same thing, but years ago my brother had his license suspended here in NJ. Shortly after, he moved down to Florida for a short time and had no problem getting a new clean license down there.

fezo

That's a pretty interesting situation you have there. I don't have any idea as to how that turns out but agree that it's probably not worth much.

If you have a prosecutor that doesn't want to deal you are in a tough spot anyway. In order to pursue the no point option you need a prosecutor, cop and judge who are willing to do that. If any one of the three don't want to you have a no go.

sashaa

You people think I should just pay? seems like a wasted effort - went there twice already...

qbrozen

at some point, you gotta know when to fold 'em.

sashaa

what do you mean?

qbrozen

Poker reference.

it means to cut your losses and throw in the towell. Yes, you've made the trip twice, but at what point to you just give up and pay the ticket? I say sooner rather than later, personally.

sashaa

prosecutor threatened me to increase my ticket from careless driving to speeding if I don't pay the ticket, while i was in his room. Are they allowed to do that?

qbrozen

i don't know. i mean, i don't see how they can legally INCREASE your offense after the fact. But i'm not a lawyer.

fezo

I don't know either since I'm not a lawyer either.

My best guess, and it is only that, is that the current ticket is as expensive as it's going to get since the prosecutor won't cut any deals.

In all the time I've been here this is the first time I've run into a story with such a prosecutor. Usually if someone is going to throw a wrench into the works it's the judge or most likely the cop.

That said, I agree with qbrozen at this point. Pay the ticket and move on. Would that I could do better than taht.

grs3

I just got a ticket for a 39:4-66.2 violation in NJ called avoiding traffic signal. I think its bogus, was stopped at the light but went straight and than turned into a hotel parking lot and came out onto the highway. I honestly didn't know it was illegal. Anyway its 2 points and $85. I'm curious if there's a way to fight the charge and not get totally screwed. I have 2 "reduced" violations from 4 years ago and believe the limit is 2 over 5 years. Am I better off just to pay and take the points?

fezo

To tell you the truth I'm not aware if there is a strict limit of that sort on these things. I haven't done it in a long time but seem to think that the three times I did were within 5 years of each other. Don't quote me on that, though.

I knew about the law with cutting through a lot. I didn't know the citation but I've heard about people getting nailed on it. Hey, maybe they'd go for "failure to observe sign." That's a no pointer.

tidester

I think intent enters into the equation. Did you intend to take a shortcut or did you enter the parking lot for some "legitimate" reason and then change your mind about remaining there after you got into the parking lot?

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myrtleavenj

Hi. Just got a traffic ticket for "obstructing traffic," which carries no points in NJ. [39:4-67 in traffic code]

But I already have three points on my license, due to a car accident last year, and my insurance rates did, indeed, go up (despite the fact that I never had an accident or moving violation in my life before then.)

SO my question is: If I pay for this traffic ticket that has no points associated with it, will it affect my insurance in anyway?

Thanks,

qbrozen

no.
no points is no points.

BUT, I would call my insurance company to be sure. They can do weird things when they feel like it.

fezo

It shouldn't do a thing to your insurance rates but do call and make sure.

I once got a "failure to observe sign" ticket under pretty odd circumstances (the cops were in plain sight and clearly there to make sure people stopped at a stop sign). I swear to this day that I DID stop but the cop said otherwise. I just sent in the money rather than tie up my time on a no point ticket.

That one actually still gets me steamed years later but I learned to make sure you stop completely enough that you feel the car stop and count out a second.

sashaa

Well, this time i decided to just avoid prosecutor and just wait for the trail. And Guess what: the have rescheduled it again, on the grounds that i have to talk to prosecutor, because he needs to call the cop to show up, otherwise - a no go!

I have to come there again, 4th time, in a month and a half!

I spent 4.5 hours there last night ------ CRAZY!!! drove all the way from ny for this!

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nsingh

I got a ticket on 01 Jan for stop signal violation which is a 2 Points ,$85 fine.
I am worried because I got a similar ticket in september and met with an accident too(fortunately no family member was injured), I went to the court and the prosecutor gave me a $409 option for no point ticket. I did not take it and paid the normal fine+ court fee.
But since my total points will go upto 4 with this current ticket,I want to get rid of the points this time. Please help me know if it is possible to get the points removed this time since this is my 2nd ticket in 4 months,

andsnyder

I was advised by a prosecutor that I can only "buy down" my tickets to zero points three times in 5 years. Like an idiot, I've exceeded that already and plan to appear in traffic court tomorrow for another moving violation (failure to stop).

My question is whether the three times applies only to speeding tickets or all moving violations???

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

qbrozen

I can't say for sure, but I would imagine it is any moving violation. I mean, points is points, ya know?

In any case, you still might get a lesser violation. Can't hurt to try. And, of course, you'll drive safer from now on.