Toyota Yaris

kato1

ah, so its not all in my (or most every other corolla owner's) head. there's a reason yaris is cheaper than corolla. its just not quite as much car. its not quite as quiet, not quite as smooth. dont get me wrong, i still think the yaris, at the right price, is a nice car.

ive mentioned this before. when i visit my friend who drives an xa, we always go out in my corolla, as even he agrees is a nicer (quieter, smoother) ride. im not saying the yaris is dramatically rougher or noisier, just a bit. if i had cared for the overall style of the yaris, the difference in ride quality would not have kept me from the yaris.

brucepadgett

If only that particular Corolla was the problem, as the dealer was willing to apply the total purchase price to a swap. I then tried out a couple others, but they felt the same as well. Only one Corolla at another dealer felt substantially smoother, but at that point I was SOL.

Ironically, one of the many salespeople I've spoken with was considering purchasing the '06 Corolla for themselves, but after my complaints and their own personal research, had a reversal of opinion. Perhaps it's just a matter of personal sensitivity, but I'm not the only one to feel
that the vehicle is unduly rough over bumps. Over at the MSN and ToyotaNation sites, some have mentioned the same thing.

As I've said, I love the Corolla otherwise and it will break my heart to do a trade for a seemingly lesser car.
But the Yaris is quite an impressive compromise IMHO.

bottgers

....I think Toyota and Honda have both completely missed the mark with the Yaris and Fit. Neither vehicle can match the fuel economy numbers of the next higher model and both are way overpriced IMO. These are $10K cars, not $13K-$15K cars. If I'm going to spend that much money, I'd rather buy a one year old Corolla or Civic, which are much nicer and much more well equipped vehicles. These new vehicles should get better fuel economy than any of the other models because they're smaller, and they should be priced that corresponds to what they are, and they're not.

camry1090

I have been going by my local Toyota dealership for the past 2 weeks and I still have yet to see a Yaris. I'm probably going to go up there today and ask if they have any in the back; even though I'm not buying, my aunt likes them and wouldn't mind having one as a second car. I really want to see the Hatchback as I prefer the styling of it over the Sedan. I don't care though, as long as I see one of them.

backy

Let me know where one can buy a '05 Civic or Corolla for $10k--one that is in good condition that is.

gampa

I do believe that the Corolla "LE" and "S" model have different suspensions... The "S" has a sports suspension and this would give you a more jarring ride.

Gampa

kato1

i think bottgers meant if hes gonna spend $13-15k that yaris is really costing then he'd rather get a one yr old civic/corolla. they can definitely be had for that. when i bought my 06 corolla ce, they had a yaris sedan right next to it, which i test drove. the corolla was quieter, not as noisy on the highway, and had a smoother ride, and equal/better mileage, though the yaris was not bad. corolla had what i wanted (power locks, mirrors, cruise, outside temp gauge-no power windows, for which i couldnt care less). problem for the yaris was that it costs $14,900 and i got my corolla for $14400, so it was a no brainer for me. while i like the looks of the yaris hatch, i find the sedan as equally bland looking as the corolla, even more so in the rear end.

i learned with my 1989 civic hatch that the novelty of the cool looks (yeah, i think that was a cool looking car at the time) wears off after a couple years, as new models/designs come along. so, i guess i do look at cars as more of an appliance than i used to. the yaris, like the corolla, can be a good appliance type car. but at $13-15k there are better choices imo.

toyota should have brought more of the totally stripped models to the market. i think the base yaris hatch 5-speed at $10,950 would hit home with a lot of people. but, as of now, the reality is that there are no yarii in that price range.

kdhspyder

The price points of the Yaris and the equipment are not mistakes or happenstance, Thre is very little that Toyota's marketing doesnt get right... Ok the Echo might be one ( half? )

In Toyota world everything revolves around the Camry. Keeping it No 1 and keeping it profitable. It fills the factory and the stores and keeps profits rolling in.

The Corolla is not far behind. It just makes less profit since it's smaller. What the Corolla does spectacularly is insulate the Camry from having to fight it out in the mud. The continued surge of buyers for this Gen Corolla is frankly amazing to many. Presently it's the No 2 auto in the US!!!

Rather than have this wealth !!! of potential eroded on the bottom side ... there is the mini-corolla. Now if an astute or strapped buyer wants a $14000 sedan the CE doesn't have to be the 'shield' so to speak.

Now a buyer has the option of a loaded Yaris nicely equipped with the PP option at $15365 ( a steal IMO ) or a base CE at $16100 less $500 rebate. The Yaris is far more vehicle for my money than the base CE. However if one opts for a larger smoother vehicle then the CE might be the right choice. Everyone is happy.

backy

That's always the decision facing us--buy new or get something used that is larger/nicer, or less money. Shoot, it's possible to buy a full-sized car for the price of some of these little cars nowadays. But some people like the smaller size, or even greater personality of cars like the Yaris. I don't see the value proposition of the Yaris sedan. It doesn't have the versatility of a car like the Fit or Versa, and it's priced close to the Corolla as has been noted. A stripped Yaris hatch might be a good deal if you don't mind the lack of safety features.

bottgers

...in order to make one of these ultra-small vehicles viable, they have to offer SOME benefit over the larger models. The one attribute that attracts most people to these tiny vehicles is superior fuel economy, which these vehicles don't offer. I don't understand why Honda and Toyota didn't put more emphisis on fuel economy for the Fit and Yaris. Cars this small should easily be able to attain 45-50 MPG with today's technology. The other thing that attracts many people to these mini micros is the price. I don't feel that $2K-$3K savings compared to the Corolla and Civic is enough to get most people to buy these dinky things. Personally, I'd be willing to spend the $3K to get the infinitely nicer Corolla or Civic. While Honda and Toyota are well known for hitting home runs, they struck out with these two new models.

kdhspyder

Ditto.. Given the reliability of the 3-4 main players now buying a 2-4 y.o. vehicle allows a frugal shopper to get a significant discount on a $20K+ vehicle and still have 10 yrs of problem-free driving.

It's always been my preference as well, especially if there is a Certified Warranty available with it.

kdhspyder

While Honda and Toyota are well known for hitting home runs, they struck out with these two new models.

Alternate viewpoint:

There is some 'early-edition-excitement' now for sure but from people's reactions they are in no way strike-outs.

bottgers

Please tell me how Honda or Toyota has in any way hit the mark with these two new models.

beantown

Let me know where one can buy a '05 Civic or Corolla for $10k--one that is in good condition that is.

Backy,

Come to Massachusetts. Every week, two dealers in Eastern Mass advertise brand new Corolla CE's for $10,900. Is that good enough condition for you?

backy

If that is not a "one only" sale, meaning I am guaranteed to be able to buy one at that price, I would seriously consider flying to Boston, driving the car home, and selling it at a nice profit.

chrisducati

Styling and size to begin with. Both cars are generally have the exterior size of the civic and corolla from a decade ago. The trend to make things bigger is not universally enjoyed. Honda has went even farther with it's space efficient interior in a small package and superior handling. The Fit beat the 06 corvette through the slalom course in a recent test. If one does not understand these points then they are never going to understand these cars. IMO

stevengordon

For me, a frugal car means money left over so that I can purchase a 17" MacBook Pro instead of the 15" model, a Trek 6700 instead of the 4500 model, and a 60 GB iPod instead of the Nano model.

A utilitarian design means I can quickly and efficiently tolerate the impulse to throw my mtn. bike in the back of a Scion xB intead of getting a bike rack on the car first. Or running up to chuch because the landscaping volunteers need someone to carry longer-than-trunk sized gear from one place to another. Or hoisting a big box of something into the back without having to borrow a friend's SUV, minivan or truck.

As much as I like the Civics of the world, I appreciate the utility I get at a reasonable price from some of the small cars showing up on our shores these past few years. I'm a baby-boomer, and have never devalued the idea of a having a decent car that can substitute for a station wagon or a truck, or a camper, or a nice hauler of a small family when the occasion pops up and demands it.

The Scion xB and Honda Fit cater to that range of need, without having to pay more for a CR-V or Highlander. (We've got a CR-V and I've used it for tasks I never thought I'd encounter. It's also a great friend-maker for friends stuck with small-trunk sedans.)

bottgers

People are lining up by the hoards to buy these new cars because of their styling? I don't think so. There have been very few cars in this size group that base their merits on styling, and these two new entries are no exception.

As far as size goes, the two main reasons people are willing to give up their larger vehicles to go to smaller ones is for a considerably lower purchase price and considerably better fuel economy. These vehicles offer neither.

chrisducati

Yes, styling. Both are fresh and above all different. From a size point I like small vehicles. My wife drives our Santa Fe and I think it is HUGE. As for as fuel economy has to go I can see that both could be geared higher and get better fuel mpg. If that was done then there would be complaints that the cars were to slow. I personally think zero to sixty in 10 or 11 seconds is fine. From my experiences most people do not use much of their cars power to begin with. The reason I am concerned about fuel prices and fuel economy is not related actually to how much I spend each day. $50 or a $100 a day on fuel isn't going to put a bind on my pockets. The reason I am concerned is a political one. Price isn't a consideration for me on these cars up to a point. I can spend about $40.000 on a car if need be in my financial situation. I chose not to. I spend my money on spoiling my children having a nice home and taking vacations. All personal choices.

backy

The Yaris hatchback looks like nothing else on the road. Some people like that. They also probably like that they can parallel park the car in the smallest of spaces.

bottgers

.....only lasts until everybody and their brother has one. The Scion xB WAS fresh and different, but now they're all over the place. What's left after the frenshness and uniquness wear off is two more vehicles that fail to deliver what a true subcompact car should deliver.

backy

If the Yaris fails to deliver as badly as you believe, then owners will have a rare car for a long time to come. If they are all over the place, then a lot of people would believe they deliver, for them.

bottgers

...if Honda and/or Toyota had made the Fit and/or the Yaris a 45-50 MPG vehicle, decently equipped for $10K-$11K, I would've been one of the first people to put my name on a waiting list. I'm not in the market for a unique smaller vehilce that offeres no benefits over the Corolla or the Civic, and I'd be willing to bet millions of others feel the same way.

backy

I wonder if your requirements are feasible: a Japanese-made car that meets all the safety standards and gets 45-50 mpg while offering the kind of performance and seating room Americans require, for $10k. The Yaris starts at about $11k and will likely deliver into the low 40s mpg if driven moderately, so it might come closest. The 50 mpg target might be feasible if someone is willing to live with a car that is underpowered by today's standards.

brucepadgett

I have a CE and blanche at the thought of an even more jarring ride at a higher cost.

fearturtle44

Well, if Toyota's track record is to go by then the Yaris will be a big hit. Toyota has not made many mistakes in the past (unlike the American cars). Showing my age but I have had three American cars/trucks and five Japanese cars and the Japanese cars have ALWAYS been better cars (hate to say that).

Corolla is a great car and I also like my tC but trading in the tC for the Yaris S. A great looking, high MPG car.

I was surprised on how "good" the stock stereo system sounded! Doesn't match the stock Mustang stereo but is pretty decent for an economy car.

Kevin

kdhspyder

As I mentioned the 'PP' Package Yaris is much more vehicle than the CE Corolla and it appeals to a younger buyer. They are 'flying' off the lots much faster than the Corolla's at present.

chels

I'm so undecided about whether to get the Yaris sedan or the liftback. For the liftback, they're saying a 4-6 week wait.

I'd love to have the power windows and ABS that you can get only with the sedan, but it's a lot of extra money.... and the liftback looks cooler.

Does anyone think it's worth sacrificing time and features to get the hatchback?

kneisl1

I was very disappointed when I bought my ECHO that a hatch wsnt availible. However, it hasnt proven to be terribly inconvient. Theres never been anything I wanted to move I couldnt get into the car. (I have the two door which makes for a HUGE opening in the side of the car)
As for ABS you dont need it if you are driving the appropriate speed for the road conditions. Power windows are just something else to break and cost $$$ to fix. If having power windows keep you out of the shrinks office....thats a shame!

micweb

The sedan is the safe bet. Tons of buyers for them in the future if you re-sell, they are mini (but not really so mini) Corollas.

The liftback is potentially a "cult" car with a VERY small base of fans, but those fans are likely to be ardent fans - basically most people hate hatchbacks, but for those who want the liftback, they'll search you out and pay you good money. There are just going to be fewer future purchasers for the liftback than for the sedan, but so long as production of the liftback is limited, that won't be a problem.

ALSO keep in mind that the lower list price of a stripped liftback ($10,900 with stick shift and air, no radio) might create a public perception that all of the liftbacks are "cheapie," the stripped model ends up being the "low ad price" special in dealer ads six months from now...to a certain extent this happened to the Echo in the past. A well equipped Echo was blasted as being too close in price, or exceeding the actual sales price, of the Corolla, while dealers advertised $9,999 Echos which were devoid of power steering and aircon....

reddroverr

I'd love to have the power windows and ABS that you can get only with the sedan, but it's a lot of extra money.... and the liftback looks cooler.

ABS and power windows are listed as options on the hatch. You may have to get a package that costs quite a bit more (relatively speaking) in order to snag them in reality, though.

reddroverr

Hard to say. The hatch is pretty cool looking. If it weren't for the -reportedly- better performing Fit, it would be gold. I think they could have upscaled it and souped it up a bit and had a competitor for the mini.

gampa

Chels,

If you like hatch/lift backs...and want to give people something to talk about... try looking into the "Smart" car from, I think, MB/DC...I here there are 8 dealers in the USA selling the unit... I believe there was one on MI3.

When I was in Italy, they were the only car allowed to park "perpendicular" to the curb.

Gampa

micweb

I have seen both the Yaris liftback and the Fit, and driven the Yaris liftback but not the Fit. I like the Yaris much better - it is a current redesign of the very popular Vitz, whereas the Fit is a five year old design that won't be reworked until next year or the year after. On the other hand, Honda loaded the Fit with content and fine tuned the handling, while Toyota just dumped the Yaris liftback over here with no marketing plan and in stripped form. In Europe, these things come with side air bags, side curtain air bags, stability control, and knee airbags, according to the Euro crash website. Over here they are mostly stripped down for budget buyers. Sad.

qwalls

I've been looking for a small commuter car to replace my '94 Acura Legend as my second car.

Monday I test drove a Yaris S manual, Scion xB manual, and a Corolla CE automatic back to back to back, same route. The Yaris and xB were both around $15k, and the Corolla was around $16K I think.

Yaris - Surprisingly the best ride and quietest of the three. I was surprised. Center guages were annoying. Pickup was fine. Rear seat was a bit snug, but I could fit behind myself if I had to. I'm 6"1', 210 LBs. Driving position was surprisingly good. Roomy trunk. Seems like it would even be decent for longer trips as long as just kids were in the back seat. Best acceleration of the three. I liked it the best of the three, and I wasn't even planning to look at it. Nice looking little sedan too.

Corolla - It was between the other two in ride quality and noise. This really surprised me. I expected it to have the best ride and to be the quietest. Acceleration with the automatic was underwhelming. The driving position wasn't as comfortable. Felt like less leg room, and the steering wheel was too far away. I had the seat all the way back, and my arms were completely straight. It was the "nicest" car of the three, but my least favorite. Not good looking, not bad looking...just there. Driving position may be a deal breaker.

xB - Rear leg room WOW! Super smooth clutch. Harshest ride and noisiest of the three at highway speed. Luggage space didn't seem very large. Acceleration was ok. Did I mention the smooth clutch and tons of rear seat leg room? Center guages are still annoying. Not sure if I like the look or not. Rough ride and noise may be a deal breaker.

I still have several cars to drive, Honda Fit, Kia Rio and Spectra5, maybe the Mazda 3 if I can catch a year end sale or some incentive. Any other suggestions? I guess I shouldn't ask that in a Yaris forum.

Q

frugal_one

I have done a lot of "homework" on this subject....and I would have to say you are 100% correct in your evaluation.

kato1

all the 0-60 times i found in my previous research had the corolla 5 spd faster than the yaris 5 spd, but you did say the corolla was an automatic, though i think the raw numbers still favor the corolla. i felt when test driving 5 spd vs 5 spd, corolla definitely had better acceleration. i found the ride quality and noise best in the corolla and worst in the xb, with yaris in the middle.

your not imagining the leg room in the front. im around 6'2" and did notice a bit better leg room in the yaris. numbers, in fact, bear this out.

i, too, considered:

honda fit--mileage a bit disappointing to me, rpm's at highway speed with the manual tranny WAY TOO HIGH. (and i only drive manual trans. until my left leg falls off) otherwise, a nice, versatile car

kia rio and spectra 5--i will wait until kia/hyundai prove to have 10 years of high quality and reliability under their belts (and i think they are are on their way) and,again, gas mileage a bit disappointing. yes, they have the 100k warranty. however, in my mind 100k on a car is nothing. i want to know that my car will be going strong at 200k with as little money put into it as possible. toyota has a proven track record in regards to this.

mazda 3--nice driving experience,dont get me started on its fuel economy, too pricey compared to others--would have considered at $14-15k, but came across no such animal.

of course, we all have different priorities. mine are long term reliability, fuel efficiency, compliant highway ride--thus, i went with corolla. seems you preferred the yaris, so it may be the car for you.

a final note: i still scratch my head over the yaris not having a split rear seat.(this is still the case on the non sport model, right?) i took two friends to the fitness store to pick up a weight bench and a few other items. i was able to do this by folding part of my rear seat down and putting the packages through the trunk. i could not do this in a yaris unless there were no rear passengers. they already offer only a 3 door version, and further hurt versatility by having the full rear seat :mad: this was a big point against the yaris in my buying process. would it have added that much to the cost to have a split rear sear?

backy

Since you seem to value a smooth, quiet ride, be sure to drive the '06 Accent and the Elantra GLS also. The Accent is a newer design so it has the latest safety features like 6 airbags and ABS standard; the Elantra has only optional ABS and side bags (not side curtains) but is a lot of car for the money. Also the Accent and Elantra (also the Rio/Rio5) have perhaps the best driver's seat adjustments in the low-end class. Check out the Spectra when you drive the Spectra5. It's a smooth, quiet little sedan, and a big rebate on it now.

qwalls

The Corolla was the only Automatic. The salesman said they almost never get manual Corollas. You could be right on the 0-60 times, I didn't time them, just went by how they felt.

My priorities are the same as yours, but fuel efficiency isn't quite as important as the other two. If I can get mid 20's or better city and mid 30's highway, I'll be happy. My Legend currently has 167k miles, and I've driven Hondas and Toyotas over 150-200k miles.

The plan is to buy something that after 6 years and 150k miles will still have enough life left in it to give to my son to drive for 4 years (He's 10 now) So I'm considering the Korean makes, but don't really have confidence in them... It would have to be a killer deal. I may have to drive the Corolla again...it was the only one of the three they were willing to deal on.

I don't think the sedan had a split rear seat, but I don't remember for sure. I was surprised to see an armrest back there.

Thanks for the reply.

Backy - Thanks for the suggestions. I plan to check them out...but as Kato said, the Korean makes don't really have the proven track record.

backy

Depends on how long you personally need to be "proven". I owned a '01 Elantra for 5-1/2 years, and it's proven to me that Hyundai makes solid, quality, reliable cars (I drive a '04 Elantra GT now, just sold the '01 to my sister). When I bought that '01 in late '00, the Corolla was a no-op because of the tight rear seat, the new-for-'01 Civic was hideously priced and not as comfortable to drive as the Elantra, the Protege had too harsh a ride for me, and the Focus was, well, a mess. So the Elantra was the best car for me at the time and I am very glad I bought it. I've driven the Yaris sedan and like some things about it, especially the ride and fuel economy. But I actually like the Accent better because of its very comfortable driving position and quiet, smooth ride, and a nicer interior IMO with gauges where God intended them to be. You need to follow your own requirements and get what is right for you.

kato1

i have driven an elantra as a rental. i think it had to be an '04 or 05'. i thought it had a pretty smooth and surprisingly quiet ride. i thought the center console looked a bit cheap, but not terribly so. it gave me just under 34 mpg on mostly highway driving, so not great but not bad.

i believe hyundai/kia currently make decent cars. i want to know with a great deal of certainty that at 10-12 yrs and 200,000 miles the car will be running well. eventually, we will find out if these cars have a history of this. in other words, when there are boatloads of, for example, 10 year old elantras running around with 200k on them. even a fervent hyundai supporter will concede that a 1996 hyundai would in no way qualify as a quality vehicle,
whereas a hyundai built in 2005 is light years ahead in quality control/engineering compared to the mid 90's. i honestly hope the korean nameplates will have proven to build cars with long term reliability that toyota/honda enjoy. it would be nice if the domestic automaker would join in this as well the more the more choices we have the better for the consumer.

backy

i want to know with a great deal of certainty that at 10-12 yrs and 200,000 miles the car will be running well.

That is possible with almost any car you can buy new today, if it is well maintained. It's more a question of maintenance than basic reliability of the car. For example, if you bought a 2003 Accord it might have a new transmission now, but it will easily last 10-12 years and 200,000 miles if it is treated well. Same with a Hyundai.

fearturtle44

According to Warren Brown, the car expert at the Washington Post, the Hyundai and Kia cars are much better built than 3-4 years ago.

However it is somewhat luck and good maintenance if you can get ANY vehicle to last 200,000 miles.

Kevin

kneisl1

I put 250,000 miles on my 1974 Beetle. I left the windows open a few times in the rain. Thats what killed the car as the chassis rusted out by 1982. Otherwise the only things I replaced were the pistons and cylinders and a valve job was done at 125,000 miles. One of the linkages in the windshield wiper was replaced at 80,000 miles. It had about six mufflers. The brake shoes were replaced maybe twice and one of the wheel cylinders also. But that is all. The alternator, carburator, fuel pump, oil pump, crankcase, rods, main engine and rod bearings, cam shaft bearings, clutch, transmission, master cylinder, wheel bearings, brake drums, ball joints, tie rod ends, steering box, radio, and CV joints all went 250,000 miles.
It didnt hurt that the car was driven an average of 31,000 miles year. The average car made today would probably go 250,000 miles if driven that many miles a year. The main secret is to accelerate and decelerate slowly, drive conservatively, and do the maintenance items as they come up.

chrisducati

I know this is off topic but my parents bought a new super beetle in the fall of 73. It was forest green. Kinda bluegreen and it lasted until the late 80's when it was crushed by a power company truck. It went thru mufflers also and lots of points sets if I remember correctly. :shades: I learned to drive in that car.

kato1

i should have been more clear. yes,any car you buy today should and can get you to 200,000 miles. the question really becomes, how much headache and money will it cost you to get there. im sure i could go buy a used cavalier and get it to 200k, but i KNOW the headaches and $$$$ outlay to get there would be beyond reasonable for my taste.

kato1

"However it is somewhat luck and good maintenance if you can get ANY vehicle to last 200,000 miles."

good maintenance, yes. luck, i dont agree as much. i think by purchasing a vehicle with a history of longevity and stellar reliability (examples: camry, civic, corolla, accord) you reduce the role that luck will play.

backy

One way to look at it is that with some cars, like the Yaris, you will be covered by a factory warranty for less than 1/3 of the 200,000 miles. With some others, you can be covered for 1/2 of it. So that helps reduce the risk of the $$$$ part of the headaches.

It is clear you believe cars like the Yaris have a better chance to get you to 200,000 miles with fewer headaches than others, so that looks like the right move for you--otherwise, at the first sign of any problem, you will kick yourself, "Why did I buy this @#%*!! unreliable car?!?"

killerbunny

I've been looking for a small commuter car to replace my '94 Acura Legend as my second car.

Monday I test drove a Yaris S manual, Scion xB manual, and a Corolla CE automatic back to back to back, same route. The Yaris and xB were both around $15k, and the Corolla was around $16K I think.

Are you in finacial trouble? No offence intended, but I don't understand why do you step down that much.

Even for fuel economy, I personally won't go any lower than a Civic Ex. BTW, Fit/Yaris is not significantly cheaper than Civic, due to the new model demand right now.

ripwilson

"The main secret is to accelerate and decelerate slowly, drive conservatively, and do the maintenance items as they come up."

I have preached this all my life. It is the most simple and sound advice ever given when it comes to extending the service life of a vehicle.

Sincerely, I thank you for your wisdom.
Rip