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FWIW, my conclusion is that the Yaris is the far superior car. Roughly the same money. The Yaris has much more of a solid feel. The interior seemed much more upscale in the Yaris. The Yaris will likely based on history have far better resale later. Actually, thinking I was going to go Aveo, after comparing the two, no comparison. I think I might like the Honda Fit a smidge better, though.
Mackabee
I view safety features like ABS, airbags, and ESC like an insurance policy. We hope we don't have to use insurance policies, either. But if we do, we are glad we have them.
Riding a motorcycle as I do, the ONLY way to be safe is trust yourself. There are no seatbelts or airbags on a motorcycle. Ive seen several people killed in car/motorcycle accidents. Thats all I needed.
BUT the real problem is that very few Yarii, even the sedans, are being sold. The dealers are just AWASH in Corollas, now with national cash back, and still basing at around $14,7 for CEs with no options. So the Yarii just sit and sit. :-(
My local dealer has the same two he had three weeks ago, or whenever that was that they started coming in to dealers. Both are automatic sedans, one S and one base model.
I pull 40 mpg in everyday driving in my Echo (stick shift), have been tracking the mileage very closely for the last few months to come up with that average. I got 46 mpg without trying in the one highway trip I did in it a couple months back. One of the things I have wondered is whether the Yaris would do as well. I kinda think not, but maybe.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I much prefer the interior of the liftback to that of the sedan. For one thing, I prefer the center stack where the three HVAC controls are stacked vertically, rather than the triangular configuration in the sedan. I also prefer the cloth inserts which cover the doors all the way up to the window sills, where the sedan gets hard plastic there.
If you are a fan of the passive safety features, I think you would be crazy not to take a very close look at the xA, especially if you like the Yaris hatch. For $14K flat, you can get a manual with the side airbags/curtains (and of course, all the other stuff like power package, etc), and it comes standard with ABS. Not to mention a pretty good stereo with face-level tweeters, something you CAN'T get from the factory in a Yaris.
Me, I would like a Yaris hatch with the convenience package (and maybe the extra airbags and ABS as stand-alones? I am not sure). I figure I could get that exact car (in a stick) for $1200-1500 less than the xA. The power package, I could not care less about. I much prefer the styling of the Yaris to the xA, outside and in.
dhill4: can you tell me, how did you place the order - over the internet, or in person? Was the dealership resistant to taking a special order, and did you have to put down a deposit? If so, was it refundable?
Thing is, I wouldn't mind placing an order and waiting six months, as long as I knew that I could get the exact car I wanted, and that they wouldn't just waste my time and come back with "sorry, the car you ordered was unavailable" six months down the line. That would be irritating.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
My Yaris is the best car that I have ever owned. It is white with alloy wheels (also part of the power package). Everyone asks me about it, especially at the car wash. It is a unique car, unlike the Corolla, which is a dime-a-dozen.
I am tired of people bad-mouthing this car. Drive one and you will see what a tight, solid, well made Japanese car it is.
My husband has been on various deployments. Before a deployment he has to take a defensive driving course. He's done this many times now. You go and crash cars and learn how to run other's off the road....you skid around and do 180s and such and he said that he would not drive a car without ABS if he doesn't have too. He said with as much knowledge as he has at driving and with as much practice he's had he cannot control a vehicle as well in certain instances and that is when ABS comes in handy. For him he said it just makes it easier... I haven't take this course but I do no other folks who have and they all agree. So I encourage those who do not believe...go to the tracks. The course my husband took cost a couple of thousand...and he had a week long day in/day out driving tactics in all kinds of conditions... He's taken it at least three times.
It is nieve to think that just because you drive defensively you avoid getting into those situations... I would like to think that I drive defensively....but when I'm going 65 - 70mph in the left lane and some idiot pulls right in front of me from the shoulder and a dead stop and I've got people next to me so there is nothing I can do but slam on the brakes.... It wasn't my driving that caused the close-call...it was someone elses. With the amount of driving I do a year, day in and day out especially in an area where aggressive driving is the norm...I would prefer to have ABS.
Defensive driving absolutely will help you avoid problem drivers. It cant totally remove the threat, nothing can. People dont pull out in front of me when parked on the side of the freeway because I change lanes as I approach them. I just assume that sooner or later one of them is going to do exacly that. Neither do I allow people to box me in so I have no escape route. Im talking about riding my motorcycle here. I keep traffic BEHIND me. I keep to the right so the people who are really breaking the speed limit can pass. (you dont allow people to tailgate you on a motorcycle) You dont have to be agressive about it, just use common sense.
I can only recall ONE time in the past 20 years when ABS might have been nice to have. (this is before ABS) I was driving on a rainy day and there were leaves all over the road. Suddenly the car in front of me apparently missed a left turn. He tried to stop and turn left at the same time. He lost control and eventually crashed into the car coming the oppposit way. Both cars were still crashing and spinning around on the road as I approached them. I had left enough room between the cars so I had time to react. I was driving slowly because of the rain and the leaves. I thought NO BRAKES SWERVE RIGHT! Luckily, as I passed them on the right for an instant there was enough room to get by. You could have slammed on the brakes with ABS and not lost control, but you wouldnt have stopped in time. Carefull driving was enough to keep me safe.
Traffic...sheesh...in the mornings I'm pretty good, 4:30am and it is running even if heavy....but in the afternoons it can easily take me 1 1/2 hours to go less than 30 miles. I won't even talk about Friday
My problem with ABS is that I live in an area (southeast Michigan) that ends up with a LOT of icy roads in the winter. ABS has been proven to drastically lengthen stopping distances in icy conditions, so it's not a good choice for this area. ABS senses tire lockup, then releases the brakes until the tire rolls again, then applies brake pressure again. If you don't have traction (such as on icy roads) then the brakes lock up, the ABS computer releases the brakes, and waits for the tires to roll again, which happens much more slowly, if at all, because of the low traction situation. Basically, the ABS computer freewheels the brakes...You're standing on the pedal, and nothing is happening. It can also happen on oil-slicked roads or fresh-graded gravel roads. A good driver who knows how to threshold brake can stop much shorter than an ABS system in extremely low traction situations.
I would also like to see ABS as an option on cars, rather than a "package deal" or standard feature.
But thanks for the info, that's good. I don't much look forward to placing an order with a dealer - I know the Toyota dealers are very resistant to this, in part because they can't make an iron-clad guarantee that the car will ever be built.
Plus, I would like a bit off MSRP, which I am hoping would be possible in a purchase from dealer stock after the first few months are past. But on an order, I am not sure they would be too pleased to discount MSRP.
If I go the order route (I am not doing anything for a while yet anyway), I may order through Longo in the LA area - it is the biggest dealership here in California, and I believe they have some clout with the factory.
Dealers in my area have been turning over Scions with great regularity - I would think they would see the sales success of those models and pay more attention to the Yaris now, especially with the gas so expensive. Instead, it is being shunned. :-(
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I just caught the tail end of a Yaris commercial during "Will & Grace" that showed both the sedan and the hatchback. So the answer is YES, Toyota is making some attempt to advertise this car. I think if they actually had some hatchbacks on the lots that we could test drive (nothing here in South Florida), this neat little car might not suffer the same fate that the Echo did.
Mackabee
Meanwhile, they seem to be able to sell Scions with ease, and perhaps the fixed-price/no-haggle system with the Scions provides the dealership and the salesperson both with better profits/commissions, eh?
All I know is, lots of Scions are going out the doors, and the xA/xB are all over the place around here.
I have checked out Yaris in two places now - the first one, the salesman didn't know anything about it, although pretended he did, and after the test drive let me know that I could have "that car over there" for about the same money with more features. The tone of his voice was eager. The "car over there" was a Scion xA.
The second place I went to, I finally got to drive a hatch. But when I asked to drive it, the initial response from the salesman was "you want to drive that??". He had come over with a big smile on his face. Why? Because the Yaris was parked right next to an FJ Cruiser, and he had thought I was admiring that one, NOT the Yaris!
The smile faded, we took a quick ride in the hatch during which he displayed unhappy faces most of the time. When we got back, he disappeared without a trace. He really didn't care if he sold that Yaris or not. No money in it for him, I guess.
It is so hard finding dealerships that treat customers both professionally and also in a friendly manner. If you are lucky, you get one or the other, but very rarely both.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Anyway, the dealer didn't even have one in stock at that time. If he had, I probably would have driven and bought. Got out of the mood later when he got one in. If the new Scion looks more like the Yaris, I may pull the trigger.
And, gulp - uh oh! I was driving home and noticed the truck had just dropped off a bunch of cars at the local dealer, so I slowed down and lo and behold! One of the cars he dropped off was a Yaris hatch, stick shift, with convenience package! Meteorite metallic for the color.
I stopped and had a quick walk around it, and I have to say I like its looks more every time I see it. The sticker on this car is $12,3 and it has all the floor mats and even a first aid kit apparently. I will have to go drive it tomorrow - it's the first Yaris in the right style (hatch) with the right transmission (stick) I have seen in person.
I figure I can get it out the door after all fees for around $13,2 tops, hopefully.
But while that sounds like I am dead set on buying, questions do nag:
what about ABS and side airbags - should I wait and order one later on that has those in addition to the convenience package?
alloys - I want 'em. Again, I am sure I would have to order a car so equipped, or maybe I could try to swing a deal to order a set through the parts department and include it in the initial sale, something which I am sure would wind up costing more than they would be as an option from the factory (but would be quicker than waiting for a special order car).
cruise - I want it. I know now that the sedan has available factory cruise for the stick shift, and that has the same powertrain and steering wheel, so why couldn't the dealer service department install it in the liftback? Again, I would be ordering the cruise control unit through parts, I guess.
I am sure the alloys and cruise would be expensive if equipped on the car after the factory this way. And I am sure that dealers are going to be reluctant to take my order for a custom-equipped car that includes the ABS and side airbags. So the question for myself becomes, how important are all those things to me?
I will ask about the cost of alloys and cruise tomorrow, and see if they can even answer my question in a definite way.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I recently checked the US Yaris website and now it allows a power package option in my area (NY). This was not available when I was at the site a couple of days ago. Anyone have any inside info on whether they are going to continue the trend and add more option combos (and maybe alloy wheels) to the east coast cache of Yaris liftbacks? :confuse:
Salespeople earn a minimum commission on these cars based on the low margin from invoice to MSRP. It does not matter whether the car is sold at invoice or MSRP it is still a "mini" deal hence lots of unprofessional salespersons will try to "steer" you towards bigger cars with bigger profit margins.
I ran into that yesterday when I stopped to look at the Yaris lift-back. The salesman told me it wasn't good for anything but city driving, I shouldn't take it to Tahoe. A Corolla would be much better. This was a barebones liftback for about $10,900 (although they seem to come standard with aircon).
While the Sedan had left me with a "who cares" impression (it's nice, but it's almost an identical twin to a Corolla), the liftback stole my heart away right away.
The exterior completely shows the French design studio input. It is quirky, has personality, is totally different from the Suzuki Swift/Chevy Metro "cheap mobiles" of days gone by. It's something Apple might have designed, if they did cars; or what we might have hoped for from SMART.
The interior isn't as nice. The center stack, is ok, but a little anemic; the window cranks were generic "off the shelf" parts with no customization. The seat fabric, on the other hand, was much nicer than expected - richer than the utilitarian Fit seat fabric, and similar to Scion xA materials.
The cargo area is slightly bigger than the xA. The cargo cover is MUCH better - not just a roll-top. There is almost more storage UNDER the trunk floor than in the actual xA trunk.
The Jack Benny in me was drooling over the sub $11,000 price - with aircon.
I think I could live without the razor sharp reflexes of the Fit. The reviewers say the Yaris is more comfortable than the Fit anyway.
On the other hand, is it stable on the freeway? The xA was rock solid, with its stiff suspension, but my Echo was dangerously tippy and wallowy.
Good thing I'm only interested in the base sedan, that has a tach.
Is it just me or does anyone else see a nicer body style in the 2007 Toyota Yaris sedan than the 2006 Toyota Corolla? I see a better flow of design, with nicer details in the rear, even the very corner where the taillights wrap around. I like how Toyota designers did the trunk area, too. The one I'm looking at in Barcelona Red even has a protectant on the top of the bumper to stop trunk loading suitcase scratches. Do y'all just see a plain Corolla when you look at a 2007 Toyota Yaris sedan( the Yaris S model or base)?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
With the suspension stiffened by 47 percent over the Echo, the Yaris feels buttoned-down and dare we say fun on curvy roads. The suspension design is nothing earth-shattering — tried-and-true MacPherson struts up front and a torsion beam out back. But with redesigned bushings, a single upper mounting point for the front struts (rather than three as in the Echo), the firmer calibrations and a lower center of gravity, the Yaris doesn't even feel related to its wallowing forebear. There's no slop in the Yaris' handling and the revamped suspension and longer wheelbases provide a smoother ride.
So there. Guess it's on my shopping list although its absurdly small and I just bought new car(s).
you can say what you want about the echo, but it was super frugal on gas. i dont think the yaris can match it in that respect. what did the echo weigh? 2000 lbs. thats very light with the same engine.
The Edmunds review of the ECHO was a hatchet job. The engine has no equal in any car like it. Even unlike it. The interior space is the best of any small car period. Better than many larger cars as many have attested. The ergos are superior to anything in its class also. Almost no other small car is as easy to get into and out of. Many larger ones cant hold a candle to it. The steering is VERY quick. It gets blown around on the road in high winds. Whooppee [non-permissible content removed]' do!
Do you have any figures on that one because I would love to see how an Echo compares to the Fit in terms of interior room.
"The steering is VERY quick. It gets blown around on the road in high winds. Whooppee ******* do!"
Many other cars with exceptionally quick steering don't get blown around the road. If they do, it's usually a sign the handling is of low standards...ultimately this can lead to safety issues.
I drove a VW Beetle for ten years. Now THAT is a truely terrible handling car! But it was a good car too. Reliable. Good in snow. Easy to fix. The ECHO handles head and shoulders above the old Beetle. Actually its skidpad numbers are pretty good. (look them up in CD)
So you are Hungarian? My grandmother was Hungarian. From Nepomoke if I am spelling it right. Ever hear of it?
I have not heard of Nepomoke (maybe there is an é or ö in there?), but if it is a little village that is not surprising...and depending on how old you are, your grandmother might have been born in a region no longer part of Hungary.
The only reason I asked about the Echo was because I am quite familiar with the European-market Jazz and I just purchased a Fit (residing in California), and it seems much roomier than the Echo I once sat in.
Actually I wish they still made the old Civic! (1985) Thats car got 50 mpg no problem.
I would have considered the US-market Yaris, but since they don't have the 5-door :confuse: (yes I know, the reason is Scion xA) I didn't bother.
But foober saying his initial results are 38 mpg is encouraging. I forget if he has a stick or auto, but if it's an auto, then I would actually expect my mileage to be a bit better, so no prob.
I could handle going from 40 mpg to 38 mpg if it meant I could get the singularly cute looks and significantly nicer interior (vs the Echo) of the Yaris.
Oh, 1 last thing to iluv: No, the liftback does not have a tach. Not even in cars with a manual, a power package, whatever else you want to toss in there. No tachs in Yaris liftbacks, period. And yes, that does not please me. But for your peace of mind, all manual shift sedans get a tach, and even automatic cars if they are equipped with the power package.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mackabee
:shades:
Mackabee
:shades:
Mackabee
40mpg for 15k miles @$3 gas vs 35 mpg is a difference of $160 bucks.
How much would it cost to rent a Yaris for a week?
I was wondering, however, if other Chicago area residents (or throughout the country, for that matter) are going through hell attempting to acquire one. It appears NO DEALERS locally have anything above the base Liftback, period. One dealer I visited recently indicted they were at least taking deposits. When I questioned how long it would actually take to get the car, he kinda laughed and said (no kidding), "Your guess is as good as my own." Hardly a response I expected to hear. To be fair, the answer to that very same question at each dealership I've visited is vague. I was recently told, "About three months, and don't forget it's gotta be shipped from the West Coast after it arrives." Three months? Are they kidding?
The larger dealerships can't seem to be bothered when you say 'Yaris' after entering the showroom. One guy suggested I'd be happier in a Camry, even in base trim. Pardon me, moron, but if I wanted a Camry--which I don't--I'd have asked for it. As it stands, the sweetie and I have a 2005 Corolla and it's a nice car, but the Yaris will be for me and that's what I want. Further, I find myself shaking my head at the seemingly total lack of information salespeople have about the car. It's as though none of the dealers seem to care that the car is even available for sale (with few exceptions).
Finally, sedans are in plentiful supply and I find that I'm being 'steered' towards them aggressivley. I like the sedan; it's got a certain appeal. But my heart just isn't as enamored with it as the Liftback, so...no guys, but thanks anyway for showing it to me.
Anyone in my area with similar stories? Any advice you can share? I don't know whether to forego ordering one, taking the next available Liftback I see, or just giving up on the Yaris altogether. So far, shopping for one has been a total disappointment.
Meanwhile, the sedans stay in stock longer, and of course there are a lot more of them - two facts that are related I'm sure! :-)
Maybe Toyota should shift the mix a bit and put more liftbacks out there.
mackabee: really? You rent Yarii at your dealership? The only TRAC dealer in my area hasn't put any Yarii in their fleet yet, and they already have the new RAV and new Camry for rent. Maybe they will soon, who knows. I am in northern California.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Mackabee