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But that's not Hyundai's smallest car, Accent is. And Accent is in the same boat as Yaris with regard to the interior, IMO, although at least Hyundai didn't forget the tach! :mad:
And Accent's FE is less than class-leading too - I don't know why they can't get that higher.
My comments on interiors would include the Accord LX, although it is perhaps the nicest in this price bracket, and certainly the Mazda3s and new Sonata, which I have now had the chance to get to "know" via a weekend rental. But since this is not the "quality of interiors" thread, I will quit right there and merely add that the Yaris does indeed have an interior on par with its price class, but which is nothing to write home about.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
They figure that if they have to charge more for the interior in this market, then they had better make the outside bigger too. Sure I could buy a Lexus, but the smallest model is a much bigger car and doesn't break 30 mpg!
Oh my God, somebody gets it.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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EXACTLY, thank you.
I never claimed it to be of superlative quality, but compared to everything else at it's PRICE POINT it is right on par.
The problem with building a top notch interior/exterior on an underpowered (hey I own one so I can say it), high MPG, entry level vehicle... is that the price would go UP!
Heck while we're at it, I'd like a Diesel option, JBL Stereo, HID headlights, etc... but the PRICE has a direct impact on why it can't have those things.
While there may be a few people (hwyhobo comes to mind) willing to pay Civic/Corolla prices for a Yaris with a nicer interior, by and large it DEFEATS the purpose of the car when compared to the rest of the American market.
There's nothing to "get" it's just simple common sense and economics.
T
Went in for service today, wandered the lot while I waited. Noticed that the price of the '07 Corolla (at least, the LE I looked at) has gone up by about $300. Yaris is looking like a better deal all the time.....
Has anyone noticed that the promo picture every dealer website has of the Yaris is of a liftback with the power package with alloys? How ironic that they haven't BUILT A SINGLE ONE THAT WAY so far. I would like to see one.
Meanwhile my dealer just got two liftbacks (how'd they do that? :-P), one auto and one manual, both with convenience package. $12,3 for that car, given the newly announced price for the updated '07 Aveo, is a real steal. Yaris might officially be the least expensive car in America right now! I gotta have the cruise and alloys at a minimum, but it's still tempting....
:-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm rather convinced they just painted that blue one in the brochure white though, either that or the guy had it all done aftermarket :P
So far I've looked at upgrading to the 19" TRD wheels (only $250 per, and I bet even non-employees could get close to that), but I honestly haven't missed the power stuff one bit.
Just keep telling yourself "even the first Lamborghini Countach had roll-up windows"
1000 miles!
T
PS: The Mazda3 is a really nice car actually. Very unfairly underrated compared to the Corolla imho. Gas mileage is a little dissapointing, but it has a much cooler appeal to me then a Corolla. If I was a lifetime Mazda guy instead of Toyota it'd probably be what I'd drive... or then again maybe not, I do love my Yaris!
The exterior is almost 100% different, true, but mechanically they share almost every component (engine, transmission, etc).
As for why they almost weigh the same, I'm almost certain the weight similarity does come from the height of the L/B vs. the Sedan as speculated before. They also add a LITTLE more sound absorbing material due to having no trunk buffer in the L/B, but it's not hundreds of pounds worth.
T
The mechanicals were set, but the exteriors were designed by two different studios.
Strangely, the windshield is the same in both
That's really about it though, until you delve under the skin, then they're identical!
T
It was completely redesigned last year worldwide, so although there are a lot of similarities, it is a markedly different car.
T
However, it's not NEARLY the big deal people make it out to be either lol...
Toyota does it to save money in mass production for RHD and LHD markets. Seems smart to me, and if it saved me a few bucks too, good for them!
It's not like I get a sudden searing pain everytime I have to glance in a different spot. It's certainly not even annoying after a few hundred miles.
T
How do you figure? Is it really THAT big of a deal? I'm just trying to wrap my arms around why people think it's the end of the world having to glance in a different spot from time to time (you don't glue yourself there do you?).
And on the side of practicality, it's EXTREMELY so, because they can produce both right hand drive and left hand drives from the same line.
T
It's funny - you never hear anyone complain about the center speedo in the Mini. Just because it's more stylish, or what? Maybe just because it would be sacrilege to criticize the much-loved Mini?
And of course, then there's the Saturn Ion, that little-loved car. But was there a big backlash there because of the center-mount IP? I actually don't remember.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Everyone complains about it, but besides the short time it takes to get used to glancing in adifferent spot, no one offers up any legitimate reason as for why it's just so horrible... If I didn't know better I'd think you're eyes were being gouged out having to look in a slightly different spot.
And good point nippononly about the Mini. For Pete's sake, if anything, the Yaris's is far easire to use while driving than that contraption. But it's the Mini... it's so hip and retro... bleh...
I think the Yaris just isn't "trendy" enough to do something different. Some people only like new things on "cool to be seen in" cars.
Keep in mind I agree they aren't MORE useful, just equally so... I just think in the list of things that even I find wrong with the car (and there are a few, even though I own one), the center IC is a LAUGHABLE point of malcontent.
T
The center instrument cluster leaves room for a freakin' GLOVE BOX right in front of you. No more leaning over and craning your neck to get that little item while you're driving.
* Is it a good idea to be digging in a glove box, even if it is right in front of you, while driving?
Second question:
* There is room for a glovebox in front of the driver on the Yaris. Does every Yaris have such a glovebox?
2) My glovebox in front of the steering wheel is home to my registration and insurance cards. In fairness it's not a very BIG glovebox, but it's enough for a few small items (gate openers, office stuff, papers...). I figure if I get pulled over it might just impress the cop enough to give us something besides my speeding to talk about :P .
Yes, all Yaris Liftback's have em, and I think it's inventive even if not terribly useful.
T
:P
T
On the PLUS side of it being a buzzy engine, it makes life without a tach quite easy. You can guage shift points extremely well just by feel, and at least it doesn't have an annoying light that comes on "telling" you when to shift.
In the end I'd still rather have a tach though...
T
No cruise, no tach, no factory moonroof at any price in the hatch. Alloys almost impossible to find, ditto ABS and airbags.
There is so much I would need to add to this car aftermarket, I begin to wonder if it is worth it despite the stellar fuel economy and cute looks.
I figure putting all those items in aftermarket is going to cost me at least another $2000, and obviously it will not be possible to add ABS and side airbags. The hatch at $12,3 seems like a steal for basic transportation.
At $14,5, maybe more, equipped the way I would want it, it is less of a bargain, especially considering the extra time and hassle it will cost me to have all these things installed after purchasing the car. I continue to bide my time, though, in the hopes that once the Corolla is redesigned (and increases in price) they will build more Yaris hatchbacks with the pricier packages. At year four of the Echo's run, they put some things in that were sorely lacking before, like the tach. Maybe they will do some of that for the Yaris in a year or two as well?
Supposedly they are considering selling the Yaris 5-door in the U.S. in a couple of years too. I would think that might be better equipped, leaving the 3-door to be the bargain basement stripper model.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If they're being charged for it, all of sudden they don't "need" it anymore and I'll hear how ridiculous it is Toyota isn't making Yari with nothing on them lol :P .
Luxury items like alloys and a moonroof (and yes, no one needs those things... except maybe a giraffe/moonroof), aren't "bargain" items. If you want em, you're quite right, the car isn't as attractive for what it is. At that point, I'd buy a Fit (our main competition thus far... sadly, we still pretty much chuckle about Hyundai, Suzuki, Kia etc...).
The appeal of the Yaris to the buyers I've had (including myself) has BEEN the lack of options, equalling $2000 or more less than the Fit. Even more if your local stores mark up the Fit over MSRP.
I agree wholeheartedly about availability of options though (especially ABS and Side SRS). Unfortunately we're selling anything with "Yaris" on it as fast as we get it...
Methinks I should re-badge a few Tacoma's
T
Liftback (suprisingly high)= manuals 26/126 total = 20.6%
Sedan (terrible) = 25/436 = 5.7%
Actually I am with Nippon wanting some options. If I was buying a Yaris, I would like a power package. In the Southeast there is a total of 2 vehicles with the power package and manual transmission out of all 436 sedans (I need 4 doors).
I wish they made an extended wheelbase liftback with 5 doors. No, I don't want an xA.
Why? Because no-one can get their hands on a Fit - wait lists are longer than they ever were for the Prius.
Does the car NEED alloys? No, no more than it needs cloth coverings on the doors, or plastic covers on the bumpers, or cupholders. But they SUUURE make the car look better, and many people enjoy their ownership experience more with these things in place! :-)
Just think how many really inexpensive cars have alloys nowadays - they're barely a "luxury" item at all. The $14K Accent SE has them standard (as does the Rio5, I believe?), the $13K Versa has them as an inexpensive stand-alone option, the Aveo has them in the LT package for under $14K too.
And cruise? Pshaw, I would say ditto my remarks on alloys. What you call a "luxury" item, I call an item I would not be without, and a very useful one in this case. My Echo has an aftermarket cruise, which is OK, but which I will not be doing twice. It's no great shakes, despite the good write-ups Rostra gets on these things.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Wait lists for the Fit are a up to year or more now??
You can get alloys after purchase very easily. What's the big deal? Moonroof and cruise, also. Front-mounted gauges--that would be tough.
And yes, I do consider them a luxury, as is a moonroof. Cruise could really go either way. Maybe it's just that I'm in the city, but I NEVER used cruise in my old Acura. I don't think many people really do. So to pay for it... nah, not if I don't have to.
Not to say that it doesn't have VALUE to you, just to say that I'd actually prefer not having to pay for it myself. It's nice not to have it forcefed on me, even though I can understand wanting it at least as an available option.
Some of us actually WANT stripped, inexpensive, basic transportation with Toyota reliability/resale.
And if alloys are an item you "wouldn't be without", then by all means buy em. Face it, they are car JEWELRY, and to say that that's anything less than a luxury, well, I dunno...
T
But geez, even the '03 Echo offered the tach as optional! Here Toyota has taken a step back.
As for the rest:
cruise - not available from the factory at any price
moonroof - see cruise
(tachometer (in the l/b, my preferred model) - see moonroof)
alloys - available only as part of a package that costs more than $2000, and which Toyota isn't building.
ABS, side airbags, and keyless - all stand-alone options which have yet to be put into a single Yaris liftback anywhere short of maybe the one they tour around the auto shows with.
And backy, I do hear what you are saying, and if you look a little further up, you will see I made the point that I could get most of these things in the aftermarket after I spend enough time and go to enough places, but the fact I have to go to all the trouble and expense sure makes competing models look better. Despite how much I like the looks of the Yaris hatch.
Anyway, I am not sure what got me started beating this dead horse, so I am going to stop. But it just burns me that this EXACT CAR can be had in Europe with all the equipment of an entry-lux car here in the States. Given that they are already making them for Europe JUST LIKE THAT, why not divert a few to the States as the "ultra-lux package", or something like that? Charge whatever you want, $4995 for the package, and just drop a few off the Europe-bound boat and put them on the U.S.-bound boat instead. Toyota would not have any increased cost by doing that. Maybe it's just that dealers here wouldn't want them, I dunno. If that's so, they should start an internet Toyota ordering system so customers could put down a deposit for the "ultra-lux package" and Toyota could send it to the nearest dealer, who would get an appropriate percentage for prepping and delivering the car. Not so different from the Scion system.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
T
Actually both Civic and Corolla do worse for gas mileage in town than the next step down the ladder (Fit and Yaris respectively).
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Note: These are Canadian prices (taken from Toyota.ca).
Note: If the image doesn't display, I've probably exceeded the data transfer limit of my image host.
Anyways, you can see at the low range, starting from the Yaris and even progressing up to the Camry, there's a vehicle available for pretty much for any dollar value. If the price gaps were too large between vehicles, there is the possibility of someone coming in with a budget that fits right in between. They don't want to get something small, but they can't afford the next larger vehicle.
With tight spacing between the prices of different models, someone coming in on the borderline has a choice. They can buy a smaller model if they want, with the option of going to a larger model instead. Of course, this is simplistic and doesn't take into account all the factors involved with buying a vehicle (discounts, trades, haggling, etc), but the principle is there.
Also, with the new Corolla/Matrix redesign, the price ranges for those models will probably be pushed up a little.
* 4-wheel independent suspension
* 16" wheels and tires (vs. 15")
* 4-wheel disc brakes
* external temperature gauge
* tire pressure monitoring
* dusk-sensing headlamps with auto on/off
* adjustable driver's lumbar support
* cruise control with wheel controls
* telescopic steering wheel
* overhead console
* audio controls on steering wheel
* 6-speaker MP3 audio with aux input and speed-sensitive volume control
* lots more sound deadening/insulation
Also, we don't know the manufacturer's profit on the Yaris vs. Camry. I bet it is considerably higher on the Camry, so the real cost difference is much less than $3000. If there were the same profit on both cars, you can bet Toyota would ship a lot more Yaris over here, or even make them here, especially since they are so popular now that gas is around $3/gallon.
With the difference in invoice prices between the Camry and Yaris only a little over $3000, how can you expect Toyota to price the Yaris $3000-4000 under the Corolla??