Toyota Yaris

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Comments

  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    The real question is WHY the precipitous drop in resale value if all the perceptions are changing?

    They aren't, at least not as fast as you'd claim they are. And those numbers aren't based on an isolated case of you getting someone to pay too much for used car. That happens every day, but that's why we have research... to eliminate the abberations/average them out...

    Buying low and selling high huh? Kinda odd to hear from someone who pays cash for a depreciating asset (liability), but hey, at least we know you aren't an accountant :P

    T
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    tjw1308, I think that we should graciously accept this concession on backy's part and move on. Go Gophers, let's keep the Brown Jug this Saturday for another year.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    That I can wholeheartedly agree with :D ...

    T
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I like the sound of a 5 door yaris wagon. A 3door is odd and looks the part also. The discontinued xa gives great reasons for a 5 door model.

    -Cj
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Could very well be we'll be seeing the Fuse (the new Scion) replacing the xA entirely, and we will be getting the 5-door Yaris like our friends to the north already have.

    The only thing is, our Scion rep seems to think the Fuse won't be out for at least 2 years... So who knows.

    Personally, the 5-door looks almost identical to the 3, just with two extra doors. If you glance quickly without noticing the doors, they're practically indistinguishable. It would still be nice to have though :)

    T
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    The fuse is too similar to the tC. The tC should have a sedan varient...

    -Cj
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    True...

    A sedan tC wouldn't be as cool as a Diesel Yaris though :)

    T
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,828
    at work, about 300 people, hyundai is getting a following.
    several have swapped out for another hyundai, a better model then before. it's by word of mouth. it's mostly a group of women that have gotten promoted over time.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Just got some info from Japan. Toyota will release the next-generation ist in Japan in January 2007. This model is simply being referred to by its Toyota project number of 260L, but it is supposed to be the next-gen ist. However, the name change is also rumored.

    This model will also be available as a Scion, but the source could not say which (xA, xD?). For the Scion distribution, it will have a 1.8L engine. For the European release, it will also be available with a Diesel and 4WD.

    I even received the exact dimensions for 260L. They are not that different from the current xA's, except that it will be wider than xA by 30mm. And it is definitely not Ractis-based, as it is shorter (in terms of height) than the Ractis by full 10cm.

    However, there was a design sketch that had been released by Toyota sometime ago that has long been rumored to be a future Scion. That sketch looks a lot like the Ractis. So maybe there would be two brand-new Scion models (not counting xB, which we already know about). This part of it is purely speculative at this point.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    If I were considering buying a Hyundai Accent, and I was before I bought my Yaris. I would check what people would have to say about it on the Accent board. I did before I purchased the Yaris and rechecked it again yesterday. I could not find any posts from you. About all I saw were people writing about problems they were having with their Accents. I think you would be doing people considering an Accent a favor by posting your positive comments on the Accent board rather than making them search for them on the Yaris board.
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    And a diesel yaris wouldn't be as cool as a diesel tC! This could go on forever...

    -Cj :P
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    I gotta admit, a diesel tC would be pretty cool :P

    Granted it'd need to be something with ridiculous torque and not predicated on gas mileage haha...

    T
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I'm guessing but it should be

    145hp and 200lb ft of torque
    26mpg city and 37mpg highway
    for a diesel tC. Just needs a 5 speed auto with OD to keep revs lower on the highway. The current auto isn't doing it.

    Still, sounds reasonable if priced between $15-$20k!

    The yaris on OTOH will be much better as a hybrid than diesel. Diesel is better suited for heavier cars ex:F-350, H2(needs 1), E320, and touareg. A hybrid yaris should get 44mpg in the city and 37mpg on the highway.

    Sound good?
    -Cj
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Not if it cost $25,000. My ECHO already gets 40 mpg driving it 6.5 miles to work. Im sure it will do better than that on the highway. $10,000 for hybrid drive and 4 mpg? DEAL...OR NO DEAL?
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Haha that's the same logic as to why I didn't buy a Prius :)

    The Prius buyers these days find the gas mileage (45MPG in reality btw), just an added bonus. The majority are after the tax credit and environmental friendliness. I get almost 40 in the Yaris, and my Smug emissions are down 48% ;)

    A SMALL diesel would make sense in a car like the Yaris. It works just fine in Europe =).

    But for now, especially for a hybrid Yaris (where's the box I can close?):

    NO DEAL

    :)

    T
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    DIESEL Yaris? DEAL!!!

    I was thinking about one of the features of the Prius that suposedly helop it get better mileage. That would be the vacuum storage flask for the coolant. The idea is all the coolant goes into the flask on shutdown so when you start the engine is "already warmed up". Well, riddle me this. How much coolant is there, 2 gallons? Thats 16 pounds. Thats 2400 btu assuming a delta t of 150 degrees. BUT the engine and transmission weight about what, 600-600 lbs? That would require 90,000 btu to raise in temperature 150 degrees. The numbers dont add up on this one it would seem.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    My goodness, man, you get right to the heart of the technical issues, don't you?! :-)

    My impression was that it is like a thermos flask that is being warmed all the time by the coolant. When you shut down, the coolant is at the same temperature as the flask. And the flask is empty while you are driving, so it's not like heat energy is being wasted keeping it warm.

    Have I totally missed your point?

    As for future prospects for diesel Yarii, my suspicion is that Toyota's hybrid investment is great enough that it will not also begin to offer small diesels. Now big diesels for trucks? Oh sure, and in fact I really hope they bring a 50-state diesel in for Tacoma as well.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The idea is the engine and transmission combine to form a 90,000 btu heat sink. You need 90k btu to warm up the engine to operating temp. But the coolant only can store like 2400 btu when its in the flask with the engine not running. Start the engine and 2400 btu worth of coolant hits 90,000 btu worth of cold metal. Thats nowhere near enough to warm the engine to opeerating temp. Who they tryin to kid?
    I agree Toyota has the public flim flammed with the Prius. But also there are restrictive laws that make US diesels hard to do.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Good point about the laws... All of us wishful thinkers tend to forget that the EPA and federal government all but prevent us from getting most diesels.

    It's kinda a trade-off in my opinion. Diesels are dirtier (generally), but use less fuel. Less fuel usage saves the environment too doesn't it? Couple it with the fact that I don't save any $$$ having an ULEV-2 car (Yaris), and all I get in return is the sorta good-feeling of helping the planet (which could be worse, but I'd still rather just have the $$$ lol)...

    I wonder if the EPA regulators/feds would take good-feelings instead of $$$ too... I think we should try it on their next paycheck :P

    T
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Be happy because you own the most cost effective car there is on the market. If you had a diesel youd probably spend more money over the cars life than you would the Yaris. (I mean initial cost + fuel diesel/hybrid to that for yaris)
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Honestly, besides a few minor quibbles I couldn't be happier with my Yaris :) .

    Driving it like I normally would (no eggshell between the pedals for me lol), I STILL get 37 MPG or so (combined).

    It's also a hoot to drive and gets a ton of attention anyway, despite not emitting Smug.

    T
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    $25k is definitely too much. The yaris is already to cheap(price-wise) for that kind of a jump. I think $16-18k is the price for a hybrid yaris.

    Which makes more sense to you: (My guesstimates)

    Diesel yaris with 90hp and 120lb ft of torque, 36mpg is the city and 48MPg on the highway priced between $15-$17k or a

    Hybrid yaris with 115hp and 113lb ft of torque, 47mpg in the city and 37mpg on the highway priced between $16-$18k.

    Its a pretty even bet here. IMO, a hybrid yaris makes more since to have. Its lightweight and small size should get it excellent mpgs with a little more power to boost.

    Diesel is good on small vehicles but make more a difference on bigger vehicles. The yaris would suffer in hp too much to justify the torque boost. The hybrid should stop the motor and make a bigger difference. In a traffic jam, the hybrid would shut the engine off like all other toyota hybrids and get great MPG! Whereas a diesel would still be running and loosing fuels.

    Basically, Hybrids are great city cars and diesels are great touring (for lack of a better word) car. Now IF & ONLY IF toyota can make a DIESEL HYBRID....

    -Cj :surprise:
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    The problem with either a diesel or a hybrid is youre going to spend more money buying the vehicle than youre going to save on fuel. So in effect, instead of giving your money to Exxon youre giving it to Toyota. There no way in the world youre going to buy a hybrid Yaris for $18k. Or even a diesel Yaris. Im glad I have my $13k ECHO!
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Well, the only problem with that, is that even though Toyota claims to be making money on the Hybrids (maybe if they include the ADM lol...), I don't see the technology being inexpensive enough anytime soon for it to be viable in a sub-$20k car.

    The Yaris, according to the latest Toyota insider magazine, IS the closest thing to a Prius without hybrid doo-dads (the 1.5L engine I suppose being the biggest similarity).

    If they WERE to add Synergy Drive to a Yaris, it would pretty much be a Prius :)

    So I'd imagine the costs would be pretty close too, unfortunately...

    T

    PS: I'm glad I have my 12.5K$ Yaris! :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,828
    twelve and half for a yaris. the salesman had his way with you. ;)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    I guess I had my way with me...

    LOL :P

    Nothing wrong with paying the couple hundred bucks in profit... Especially to get a car that's hard to find.

    T
  • reuel3reuel3 Member Posts: 114
    Please refrain from personal attacks in our forums. I have deleted several posts in this discussion for this reason. Our forums are certainly here for you to express your opinions, but you must due so in a civil manner. I have deleted numerous posts from this thread because they simply crossed the line. The expression of ideas and friendly debate are good things; however, arguments and insults will not be tolerated.

    Thank you for your cooperation. And now back to focusing our discussion on the Toyota Yaris...
  • reddroverrreddroverr Member Posts: 509
    Hi Autoboy,

    Looking at the UK Yaris site, real world, the Diesel would run $1818 (adjusted to USD) more than a similar sized petrol. Not so sure they can do a hybrid for that. Plus you do get added complicated technology with hybrid..and a battery that eventually wears.

    I've seen different figures, but the diesel mileage looks to be high 40s or low to mid 50s (adjusted) for combined driving.

    http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/toyota-yaris-d-4d-range-100- - 3286.html

    Looks pretty dang good to me, I wish they would bring it here.
  • reddroverrreddroverr Member Posts: 509
    Exxon sure, but unfortunately a lot of it goes to mideast dictators and guys like el diablo Chavez.

    In the UK a diesel Yaris runs +1818 USD, though it doesnt seem to be available on all trims.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Plus by the time they got the diesel in spec with U.S. regulations you can expect it to be far more xpensive than just $1818 more...

    Unfortunately we're just going to have to live with 38MPG averages for now :)

    T
  • autoboy16autoboy16 Member Posts: 992
    I guess the third closest thing is a corolla. It once got my mom and I from miami (cutler ridge) to atlanta on 1.5 fill ups ($45total) and that with the A.C. blasting and driving 90mph most of the way. I guess its not that bad! A diesel or hybrid corolla would be beyond the prius in terms of MPG. For an econobox, the corolla is a pretty penny!

    The corolla has more hp and space than a yaris so it isn't all that bad for a 5 year old model...

    -Cj :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,828
    i know you understand what i posted was all in fun, by one of your previous replies.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    The Corolla is downright awesome for 5-year old model!

    The problem is, as I think we discussed earlier, it's extremely dated (grandmamobile). Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but it needs a facelift BAD (more than just the S package lol).

    If it was more aesthetically pleasing to me, I would have gladly bought one. But if Toyota's recent track record is any indicator of what the 2008 Corolla will be like, I may have to get one of those :)

    In the meantime, the Yaris isn't exactly something you'd expect to be parked outside a bingo hall :D

    T
  • iancariancar Member Posts: 31
    Will Toyota bring Yaris TS to the State side? I think Toyota had soften American Yaris suspension and body control too much, making it falling far behind Honda Fit 1.5S. Unless they say that Yaris is only for someone who need hip-opts, otherwise i dun see why Toyota has to hold back the performance models.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    Judging by the limited success of the Corolla XRS stateside, I doubt Toyota will be bringing us the TS (Yaris).

    Maybe when the NEW Fit comes out (Keep in mind how old the current-gen car actually is)... as I think Toyota may be holding the TS to help subdue a bit of the excitement when it does. IF it does, I don't expect we'd see it for more than a few years though, especially with the impending Scion/Corolla redesigns (say what you want about Toyota, but they are excellent at not stepping on their own product line's toes).

    T
  • reddroverrreddroverr Member Posts: 509
    tjw, I am curious. Since Yaris and other models in europe come in high mileage (small engine) and high mileage diesel designs, is the Prius selling squat over there?
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    I wouldn't say squat, but the market is a lot more limited than in the States because of the regulations (or lack thereof) on diesel's in Europe.

    Another thing to consider (as I sold one today for this very reason), is that a lot of Prius buyer's motivations go: 1)Environmental 2)Tax Credit/HOV Advantages 3) Trendy-ness and LAST 4)Gas Mileage. At least here, and that makes me wonder why it's not the same in Europe...

    A lot of Prius buyers find the gas-mileage as just an added bonus. It's sad when you consider that a lot of Focus's sold in California are P-ZEV also lol... but the Prius is still viewed as "cleaner".

    Toyota did a nice job of cornering the market here on hybrid technology, and so it's almost become apples to oranges comparing hybrids to diesels.

    The non-buying segment looks at the real world mileage (of the Prius) and sees that you can do a lot better, at least financially speaking, elsewhere. But it's not just about the gas mileage to the real Prius buyers.

    Don't rule out the Hollywood factor either... that's definitely boosted sales for us :)

    T
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Thats about sums it up for the Prius. I read an article that European engineers were mortified when told they were going to design and build hybrids. They feel that diesels are the way to go for an fuel efficient car and that hybrids are a fraud. They think the American obcession with diesels is nuts. In the beginning, hybrids were suppoed to be all about saving money. They were supposed to be a new way to get super mileage. Since the financial pitfalls of hybrids have become notorious, other motivations have taken that place as you noted. As you noted also, there is no inheritant reason hybrids are cleaner than regular cars (except diesels!) The charges of fraud against hybrids are well founded.
    Even a diesel,however,has problems with payback. In 1980 I had a choice between a $4600 Subaru Hatchback or a $7500 VW Rabbit Diesel. I chose the Subaru bewcause I realized I would never recover the money spent on the Rabbit.
    I would argue the ECHO (and its successor the Yaris) is the most cost effective fuel efficient car on the market today.(it aint even close actually) When you factor in its brilliant ergometric design and Toyota reliability, it becomes a slam dunk. The only fly in the ointment is the increased size and weight of the Yaris over the ECHO. Its not much of a factor at this point, but if it keeps up theyll make a Honda Civiv out of it.
  • reddroverrreddroverr Member Posts: 509
    I have two Prius owners in the family...I suppose I should ask them why they bought. heh

    My impression is that Prius is a bit larger than yaris and corolla so it comes into competition with the Camry as a family vehicle. Those who need to fill the back seat time to time. I've ridden in one of theirs and it seemed similar in size to another family members Camry. In that realm it is not so much more expensive. *no need to thank us for keeping Toyota motors afloat. ;) The mileage and the environment thing go hand in hand i suppose. I'll ask the reasons next time I see them. They live in CA ...of course.

    Funny about diesel perceptions..here is a quote from the Yaris UK site:

    "Toyota's advanced diesel-engine technology delivers the best of both worlds - the lively responsive power you expect from a petrol engine but with the superior fuel economy and emissions of a diesel"
  • reddroverrreddroverr Member Posts: 509
    I reckon you might get some arguements on that from some Fit owners or maybe Backy. But Yaris seems to be the one that you can buy with the least amount of trinkets attached, and as such it seems the best quality and function of the little guys.
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    True about it being a little larger. I guess if you are going to routinely transport more than 2 people, the Prius does have that going for it. Although, I will say that I have taken 3 Adults (4 IF you count me ;) ) on a 100+ mile jaunt in my Yaris L/B and both people in the back couldn't get over how much space they actually had.

    Those who actually do the math, realize that the Prius is a horrible financial decision if gas mileage is the primary concern. Of course, if you sell it within 3 years like MOST people do with cars these days, the resale is pretty darn incredible, and you get most of your $$$ back anyway.

    As long as people continue to pay over MSRP for them, I'll let them think whatever they want though :P

    T
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    Backy, watch out, this is a Lindy rig, don't bite on it!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I am thinking kneisl1 meant "ergonomic", and in that case I would disagree wrt the Yaris, but I'm not sure, since I found out that "ergometric" is actually a word (so I learned something today!).
  • tjw1308tjw1308 Member Posts: 296
    "Backy, watch out, this is a Lindy rig, don't bite on it!"

    LOL :D

    T *waits patiently by his string*
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    What I meant was the ECHO had a lot of interor space, a high roof line, and was easy to get in and out of. Easier that my wifes Camry. No small car made at the time was like that.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It was one of the first "tall" small cars, wasn't it?

    I wonder... is the ECHO roomier inside than the Yaris?
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    No idea really. Ive looked over a Yaris hatch but never compared it to the ECHO.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    having been in both quite a bit at this point, the Yaris certainly FEELS like it has less space inside, but the more irritating thing is it has followed the trend of every other car in the market to having less glass and therefore feeling more like sitting in a bathtub and peering over the edge to drive.

    The Echo had a high greenhouse with tons of visibility - the Yaris is much more cleanly styled and proportioned than the Echo was, but it is harder to see out of.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Hmm that is surprising. I must drive one someday. Personally I think the yaris styling is too busy for me. I especially dont like the emblem zit in the middle front of the hood. Whatever doubts I ever had about how the ECHO looks have been erased by six years of reliable service and 40 mpg.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    the more irritating thing is it has followed the trend of every other car in the market to having less glass and therefore feeling more like sitting in a bathtub and peering over the edge to drive.

    I could not agree with you more. My wife and I dropped the Yaris for various reasons, but one thing my wife complained about greatly was that peek-a-boo sense you get when you are in the driver's seat.
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