Toyota Yaris

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Comments

  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    And certainly none of the others in this group are selling in HUGE volumes to fleets the way the Focus is (except maybe Rio? But I don't know the numbers, so that is pure speculation).

    Of all the cars in this comparo, I bet it is still the Aveo selling the best, helped along by its own fairly voluminous fleet sales and its low price. But the Yaris can't be far behind. And from what I've seen in my area, I will bet the new Accent and Versa are going to be giving it a hard run for its money now or very soon.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Aveo wasn't in the comparo, but CR tested it previously (meaning they haven't tested the '07 model yet). I don't think any of the cars in the comparo (except the Focus) sell in large volumes if only because not many are shipped here. For example, can you imagine how many Fits Honda could sell if they could send more of them over here? There's a long wait in some areas.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    So in the group of cars REALLY in the same catagory, which is the best seller?
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Already pointed out, the bestseller is the worst car in the class - the Aveo.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    Which cars in the group get a minimum of 30 mpg in the city, real world (not EPA estimate)?

    Which cars in the group have superior build quality?

    Just asking.

    Come on, we all know that the Aveo and the Focus are tin cans.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    In this day and age any small car which fails to get 30 mpg or better has a serious problem. I cant imagine I would buy it.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    "In this day and age any small car which fails to get 30 mpg or better has a serious problem. I cant imagine I would buy it."

    Exactly how I feel.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    None of the cars in CR's comparo got any better than 23 mpg in the city, in real-world driving. The Yaris was the best, at 23 mpg. The Fit was next at 22.

    Of the group, only the Versa scored above-average in interior fit and finish--the only measure of build quality that was evaluated. The other cars were rated average there.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    The CR staff must have driven the Yaris hard, or probably drove in more stop-and-go traffic than typical drivers do. The test Yaris probably was an automatic, too (I wouldn't consider an automatic).

    Most owner reports I've read for Yaris 5-speed models (that's more than 50 reviews on various websites) cite an average of at least 30 mpg in the city... more like 32-34.

    I must admit, the Hyundai Accent SE has attractive features and capabilities. But I'm not convinced that it's built well and the low mpg put me off.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    CR's test center is near NYC, which may be a factor.

    They tested both MT and AT versions of the Yaris and the other cars.
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Other than the Aveo, the others in this segment all have good build quality. Obviously the Fit and Yaris get the best gas mileage.

    I was just answering the question about which one is the biggest seller. I wouldn't buy one, but it is the Aveo.

    The Fit when compared to its availabilty is by far the most in demand. Resale will most likely also favor the Fit as Honda has the best resale value in this segment.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    We'll see how resale goes with the current incarnation of the Fit. Word is that it's to be replaced with an all-new edition sometime during 2008 (as an '09 model). If that is true, the '07-'08 Fits are lame ducks.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Introductions of redesigned models doesn't seem to hurt the resale value of previous-generation models much, for Hondas or Toyotas. For example, ECHOs still have good resale value even with the new and improved Yaris.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    my local dealer has a Yaris hatch, 5 speed with convenience package, sticker is $12,5, and I can't help thinking I might like to trade....the thing is, it's just so cute! It has a nicer interior than anything else in its class, IMO, by virtue of where its French designers focused their attention (as opposed to the American-designed sedan). It makes me momentarily forget that I swore I wasn't buying another car with no tach, and that I would have to add $300-400 to the price buying aftermarket cruise that wouldn't function as smoothly as Toyota's factory version. And that the stereo sounds kind of muddy for my favorite types of music, and that the version I would want (power package with alloys, and keyless) is not only virtually non-existent but would also cost another $1500.

    I suuuure hope Toyota brings over the 5-door version soon, and that they make it available with more options and then actually build some that are more loaded up.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    23 mpg for a Yaris? That must be one bizzare test CR is running there. What are they smoking over there at CR anyway?
  • robertknrobertkn Member Posts: 94
    I don't understand where they came up with that either. All I can say is that with my new hatch I got 33 on the very 1st tank of gas, and that was at least 98% city. I say 98% because I can't recall for sure whether we ever had it on the highway. I don't think we did. But, we don't lead foot it because we're trying to observe the break-in recommendations. Haven't done any "Avoidance Testing" either. :)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    It all depends upon what you mean by "city." The CR city mode is the true big city traffic with all the congestion. I know that the Yaris is fully capable of getting 23 MPG because in Tokyo's gridlock traffic they can and do get that kind of mileage. The EPA city mode has a maximum speed of 56 MPH with a mean speed of 20 MPH. In New York City or Tokyo, that would be considered a highway speed.

    Remember: Everyone's "city" is different.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Weird. I almost never drive my ECHO more than 6.5 miles at a time. (the distance to work) There are five stopsigns and 11 stoplights. Ive NEVER gotten worse than 36 mpg. (once in winter)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Never been to Tokyo, eh?
  • robertknrobertkn Member Posts: 94
    Now, I'm waiting to hear that "Everyone's 'at a time' is different." :roll eyes:
  • spaminajamspaminajam Member Posts: 13
    Smoking REALITY! There are a LOT of urban folks like myself getting 23026 MPG.....
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    23026 MPG!?!?!? Whatever you're driving, I WANT one!!
  • fastrunnerfastrunner Member Posts: 38
    With my first five tanks of fuel, I am averaging 41 mpg, with no highway. I drive with a light foot, and do coasting with my 5 speed hatchback. Also, if you are driving behind me, you cannot tell that I am coasting or going too slow. I go the speed that others are doing. I just know how to get good mileage with my high mileage Yaris. :)
  • forrestshalomforrestshalom Member Posts: 26
    i just finished my second test drive of a yaris liftback w/5 spd. it was tremendous! with 4 adults it had plenty of pep compared to a 2006 kia rio 5spd that i tested last week. i'm sold on the toyota over hyundai/kia. no contest.

    by reading the owners manual: the highest allowable shift speeds were 1st: 31mph (or 33?) 2nd: 59 mph and third: 83 mph.

    not bad at all, and pretty impressive if you ask me.

    cheers mates
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    My only thoughts are - have you recently owned a car this small? In 2004 I bought a Scion xA because it's a mini car built like a Lexus. In 2005 I sold it because it was just too small. And that's after coming out of Civic's, Golf's, and Focuses. My "threshold" is Civic/Focus sized. Smaller, I'm not happy. Much bigger, feel like I'm driving a tank. YMMV - but if you are coming off a Cherokee, it doesn't bode well.

    In Europe, the Yaris is considered one entire size category below a Focus. So size bumps might be Yaris, Focus/Civic, Fusion/Accord. A Focus station wagon might be just right for your sled dogs. The Yaris is smaller than you think!

    I have no doubt the Yaris will probably run forever, and end up being like those old Toyota Tercels I still see from time to time. Without the "newness" factor it's going to just be a very tiny car. Like a Civic from 20 years ago. Not like a Civic or Corolla of today.

    To make matters worse, unlike the Fit and Civic (and most current Focus models) the Yaris is almost impossible to get with side curtain air bags, which are going to be taken for granted within five years. A car that small? Without side curtain airbags? Even the Chevy Aveo has them now.

    Although VW's are a pain to maintain (not always, but often enough), the list of standard features on the Rabbit are awesome - lots of airbags, traction control, "electronic" differential lock. Focii are cheap, go on sale often, got Consumer Reports "recommended" rating for reliability once again, etc....

    The only good thing about my adventure into the xA was the high resale value, which kept me from getting scalped when I traded it in.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the Aveo has side airbags, but not side curtain airbags.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    They are combo bags, you have to dig to find that out. On the www.safercar.gov website, the old design hatchback and new design sedan both score much higher than the Yaris, sad but true. I think on the details page for each version the government relates that the air bags are combo, like on the Focus (which is certainly good enough for front seat passengers but leaves rear seat passengers unprotected).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, I dug on Chevy's own website and it clearly shows just side airbags on the Aveo, coming out of the front seats, not side curtain airbags that cover the window areas both front and rear. Where can I see the details on the side curtain airbags on the Aveo?

    I think the NHTSA tests on the Yaris were w/o the optional side bags and curtains. It will be interesting to see the IIHS test results, which I expect will be done with the side bags/curtains (unless Toyota wants some negative press when the IIHS results are released).
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    The NHTSA lists the airbags as seat mounted combo bags. So you are right they only cover the front, but they apparently do a good job at it. www.safercar.gov , look at 2007 small car tests. The Yaris is 4 star/ 3 star, the Aveo is 5 star / 4 star (plus of course the NHTSA tests ignore high head injury results in "starring" the cars, but the HIC - head injury criterion - scores for the Aveo are good, it's in the test results.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My '04 Elantra got a 5-star rating on the NHTSA frontal side crash test also, with similar combo bags to what are on the Aveo. But it got a "Poor" on the IIHS test. And it's a much bigger/heavier car than the Aveo. So I'll wait to see the IIHS test results on the Yaris before making any conclusions about crash safety.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    Well, I had a Jeep Wrangler before I had the Cherokee -- that was pretty small. I don't think I'll have any problem adjusting.

    It's not a Smart For Two or an Isetta 300 or anything like that.

    And I did test-drive a Yaris hatchback on two separate occasions (the second time was just to make sure my initial impression wasn't clouded); I thought the interior room and seating position was just fine. There was more leg room in the Yaris than in the Scion xA that I also test-drove. And there is certainly enough room for two sled dogs inside with the Yaris liftback's rear seat folded down (they are Siberian Huskies -- medium-sized dogs -- not Malamutes).

    I want to add that I've owned everything from '60s-era VW Beetles to a '66 Olds 98, and everything in between (including an Edsel and a '59 Buick Invicta). I've driven many, many cars of many shapes and sizes over the past 35 years and I really think I'll be OK with the Yaris.

    I'd better be. I ordered mine last Friday: a 5-speed model, loaded with every available option (including the power package, ABS and side curtain airbags) and many accessories on top of all that.

    I wouldn't even consider a Focus or an Aveo. Junk, as far as I'm concerned, and poor gas mileage to boot (they don't even get 30 mpg in the city... that's pitiful).
  • typer73typer73 Member Posts: 11
    The Yaris is only small on the outside. Inside, it has much more room than my '92 Explorer. I'm complaining every time I have to drive the truck that I banging my knees on the door or the console & the steering wheel is in my chest! It's not just a feeling either, we have the same mats in the Explorer & the Yaris & there's an extra inch or two around the outside of the mat and the Yaris while they won't even lay flat on the floor of the Explorer. This shouldn't make a difference 'cause I'm only 5'2"... but ALL legs!
  • robertknrobertkn Member Posts: 94
    "Yaris is almost impossible to get with side curtain air bags"

    This is not an accurate statement. I wanted them, I got them. If I could do it others can as well. A person might have to special order one if they wanted it configured a certain way along with the SRS, but that is a far cry from it being "almost impossible."

    Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Yaris is a proven car. If you like it and want it, buy it.
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    I wouldnt be putting much faith in side curtains to protect me in an accident involving a Yaris. (or any other car for that matter)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    This is not an accurate statement. I wanted them, I got them. If I could do it others can as well. A person might have to special order one if they wanted it configured a certain way along with the SRS, but that is a far cry from it being "almost impossible."

    In at least one sales region (Midwest), it is indeed impossible to get the side curtain bags with a Yaris. That option, Option Package GY, is not available in that region for whatever the reason. Currently, the only way for people who live in that Toyota sales region to get a Yaris with side curtain air bags is to go to another region where that option is offered. Not an impossible task, but certainly a pain.
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    I wonder what states the "Midwest" region encompasses. Here in Michigan, when I first began researching the Yaris, two different Toyota dealers did tell me that I would not be able to get the power package (option PP with 15" alloy wheels, or PQ with 15" steel wheels) here... that Toyota would not ship a car so equipped to this state.

    So, I decided to check what was being shipped to other states nearby. I noticed that a loaded Yaris hatchback (with options PP, GY, AB, etc.) was listed in the inventory on a Toledo, Ohio dealer's web site. A phone call revealed that the car was a special order (the owner/orderer had been transferred overseas and was unable to take delivery). I talked to a salesman over the phone and confirmed that I too could order a Yaris fully optioned if I took my business to Ohio (less than an hour away).

    So, that's what I did. We'll see if my car comes through the way I ordered it. I have a feeling that it will.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If "Midwest" means the Chicago Region, which I am in also (and have had similar trouble finding a Yaris with ABS and side airbags), that's Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    If "Midwest" means the Chicago Region, which I am in also (and have had similar trouble finding a Yaris with ABS and side airbags), that's Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Wisconsin and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

    Indeed, it's the Chicago region that I was referring to.
  • lhansonlhanson Member Posts: 268
    If I am not mistaken, I believe that the Michigan (LP?) is in the same region as Ohio, Kentucky, and Tennessee. I think that it is called the Midwest Region.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    This is interesting. I did a "build your own" on toyota.com and it let me specify a Yaris Liftback with MT and Package C, which has:

    Power Package Includes: Power Door Locks, Power Windows, Power Outside Mirrors, 60/40 Split, Reclining, Sliding, Fold-flat Rear Seat, AM/FM CD player with MP3/WMA Playback Capability and Auxiliary Audio Jack, Rear Window Wiper, Rear Defroster and 15-in. Steel Wheels, 4-wheel Anti-Lock Brake System (ABS) w/Electronic Brake-Force Distribution (EBD), 50 States Emission, All-Weather Guard Package Includes: Larger Washer Tank w/ Level Warning, Heavy-Duty Heater, Heavy-Duty Starter, Rear Heater Duct & Daytime Running Lights (DRL), Driver & Front Passenger Front Seat-Mounted Side Airbags & Front & Rear Side Curtain Airbags

    So it appears that it's at least possible to get a Yaris in the Chicago region with ABS and side bags. I know from back when I ordered a Prius that the mix of option packages shipped to a region can change a lot during the year.

    (I also noticed there's no other way to get ABS and side bags on the Yaris Liftback MT. If you don't want the power package or want alloys and remote locking, too bad.)
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    Fascinating. I went to the same "build your own" site and tried to pick out the exact same configuration that you showed using my zip code in Minnesota. You are absolutely right. Option C gives you the side air bags. I stand corrected. I know at one time Option C was not available using my zip code. It must have changed, and that is a good thing.
  • kandice_kkandice_k Member Posts: 4
    I got my Yaris liftback in June with everything-- including ABS, tinted windows, the powerpackage(which includes the airbags and reinforced doors for a 4star crash rating),etc. I refuse to buy a car without a decent rating, esp after nearly dying in a car accident and still being in recovery from it a year later. That said, the Yaris I drive is far nicer than many that were in Europe when they came out and just as fun (yes, i drove those first ones when they came out there.)

    I love my Yaris. The only thing I couldnt get on my car was the paint color I wanted. Living in Arizona, you don't usually want to buy a black car-- it's just asking for heat to do you in. I wanted white or that olive color, but it was not offered in my region. To get it I would have had to order it from someplace in CA or in the midwest. I needed the car fast, and since the only thing it didnt have on my wishlist was the color, I bought my car right off the lot because it was the only Liftback in Tucson, and not one dealership would get another for nearly 4 or more months that was a dealership model. We actually had a paperwork race because some other couple sitting next to us wanted one just like it and we'd just test driven it, and I wanted to walk off the lot with it instead of wait. We finished our paperwork first and walked off the lot with it.

    I love my yaris! My son keeps suggesting we make a homevideo with theme music from Minie Ripperton's song,"Loving you..." I told my friends that there are four things you dont mess with me on: my Faith, My Yaris, My wife (and other family), and My hat. And almost in that order. My wife says it's just one of those love affairs that other people can't understand, me and my Yaris. :)

    I consistantly get milage between 38mpg and 43mpg, and I have an automatic. I drive well over 80 to 100 in it just going to town (we live 20 miles from downtown Tucson)twice in a day to drop off people to work, not counting other excusions. I took it on a driving journey to mesa verde (put an extra 2500 miles on it in a week. Blew the service managers mind that a car less than 2 months old had 5000 miles on it already.) I am now up around 11200 and going strong. I love driving it and its so fun!!
    Plus, it carries just about everything you can want for a family of three, plus two big dogs. :) I have always wanted this car, and I finally have my dream car!
    I have never wanted the sedan, but I love the hatchback version and always wanted it. :)
    Go figure.. eh?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    ...which includes the airbags and reinforced doors for a 4star crash rating...

    ALL Yarii (actually, all cars made today I think) have reinforced doors. Those are not something special you get when you order side airbags. But the side bags help keep your torso and head from hitting hard things like windows, door pillars, the car that hit you...
  • rosebagsrosebags Member Posts: 10
    Hi,
    Can I get some feedback from someone who researched both the Yaris LB and the Fit?
    I was sooo close to ordering a Yaris Liftback (with Power Pkg, ABS, Side airbags etc) and then I saw the December "Consumer Reports", which rated the Yaris quite a bit behind the Fit and the Versa. (I notice that has happened in several other comparative reports. And why is that???) I have test driven a Fit (basic model, automatic trans) and found it to be pretty solid. I know that the Consumer Report article has been discussed a bit on this (or other threads) but I am still confused. Why is the Yaris a distant 3rd in so many of these studies? Is it possible that all of the studies are flawed, or is there some truth in all of this? I have never driven a Honda--only Toyotas---I have heard that Hondas are more expensive to repair than Toyotas, and that the dealers are sometimes more difficult to work with. Any truth in this?
    (I'm posting these questions on the "Yaris vs Fit vs Versa" thread as well---and I apologize for that but i'm desperate for some useful feedback.)
    Thanks for you help!
  • kneisl1kneisl1 Member Posts: 1,694
    Hondas definately are more difficult to work on than Toyotas. To understand CR you have to understand their mindset. Then you can evaluate their reports. To pick a car for yourself you have to understand your requirements. Me? Im looking for economy and reliability. So the Yaris wins hand down. Cr tends to place a lot of importance on "safety" and "drivability" which can get pretty nebulous. (hence the confusing report)
  • bamacarbamacar Member Posts: 749
    Hands Down? Toyota and Honda are 2 of the most reliable brands and the Yaris just barely edges out the Fit in fuel economy (both vehicles manufactured in Japan). I would call the comparison with those two criteria a "photo finish" not "hands down".

    I have been comparing these two models for a while (Yaris sedan vs Fit Sport - I need 4 doors). The Fit wins in the interior, handling, and having all options I want standard. The cargo space is hands down in favor of the Honda Fit when comparing the Liftback version of the Yaris. The Fit like all Hondas has a better resale value than the Toyota. It is very difficult to find a Yaris with the safety package and ABS in many areas of the country. Consumer Reports has stated that the Yaris brakes poorly without ABS and brake distibution which are optional.

    Advantages to the Yaris: slightly better fuel economy, availability of cars, and price. The Fit is still selling at MSRP+ and is almost impossible to find with a manual transmissiion given the great demand and low supply. The Yaris is available in many areas just over invoice so it is clearly cheaper than a Fit. In my area of the country with the Southeast Toyota distributor, Honda dealers are bad; Toyota dealers are the worst.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    If it were just CR rating the Yaris below the Fit, you might wonder. But with EVERY professional review I've seen that compared the Fit to the Yaris rating the Fit over the Yaris, that is as they say "a trend."

    You have to decide what you are looking for. If you want very basic transportation and don't mind a dearth of features and a 3-door configuration, the Yaris can be had in base form for much less than the Fit. But when comparably equipped with features like ABS and side bags, the prices are pretty close plus the Fit offers the advantages bamacar mentioned.

    One more thing: if you are looking for low-cost, basic transportation and a 3-door car is OK, you should check out the Accent GS. You probably noticed it too was rated over the Yaris by CR and has certain advantages in terms of driving position, certain useful features (e.g. standard side bags/curtains and 60/40 rear seat), noise, and warranty. But ABS isn't available even as an option, so if you want that feature you'd have to go with the Accent SE (much more equipment) or try to find a Yaris so equipped. You might be better off then with the Fit, which has ABS standard even on the base trim. (ABS is hard to find right now on the Versa also.)
  • boris13boris13 Member Posts: 80
    You neglect to mention that the Hyundai Accent gets significantly worse gas mileage than either the Fit or the Yaris. In this price bracket, fuel economy means a lot. The relatively poor mpg of the Accent is puzzling; that deficiency almost makes the Accent non-competitive in this niche.

    Also, Hyundai always has much worse resale value than Toyota or Honda. That may change a decade or so down the line, but right now it's a fact.

    So it really comes down to Fit vs. Yaris. When a Yaris is well equipped (and the options like ABS and side airbags are getting easier to come by), the price is about the same as a Fit Sport. Features are similar between the two cars and fuel economy is about the same. Obviously, it will simply end up being a matter of personal preference.

    I decided on the Yaris liftback because: 1) the Yaris is a relatively new and unique design; 2) the styling of the 3-door style suits me just fine... it's clean and streamlined-looking... and I don't need four doors; 3) I have plenty of room in the back for cargo and/or dogs with the back seat folded down; 4) the Fit is an old design in Japan/Europe and will be replaced by an all-new version in '08... so it's nearly obsolete as is; 5) the Fit has its gas tank right under the front seats... that really bothers me; 6) I think the Fit styling is absolutely hideous; 7) MPG in the Yaris 5-speed version is better than the corresponding Fit; and 8) Aftermarket parts are more readily available for the Yaris.

    I never considered the Yaris sedan because it doesn't have a flat cargo area (and also because I don't care for four-door cars).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    It's kind of interesting that the "nearly obsolete" Fit is rated by just about every professional car publication as the best small car available! :) What does that say about the all-new Yaris, that it can't come close to this "nearly obsolete" Honda?

    As for the Accent, yes, its fuel economy is not as good as the Yaris' or Fit's. But it's still one of the most fuel-efficient cars available and has a far superior driving position (and comfort), which IMO far outweighs the $100 or so per year extra I'd spend on gas. And the advantage in resale value is mostly on paper, in terms of percentages vs. dollars, when you compare out-the-door prices on like-equipped cars. You know, I didn't say buy an Accent--just to check it out, as long as this shopper is looking at cars like the Yaris and Fit. What's the harm of taking a test drive and doing some research on it? They may think the Accent is crap, but at least they will know for sure.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I think it says that
    A. every consumer rag that reports on cars places far more emphasis on handling and sports-car attributes than most consumers do, and the Fit is the class leader for that particular attribute, and
    B. Honda's attitude has always been to put its world cars on sale here with minimal fuss or modification. That's how we got a Fit with a high equipment level for the price point (in the U.S., but certainly not worldwide), and the last-gen Civic SI that everyone hated. OTOH, Toyota's attitude has always been to make everything to a price point that it perceives the market will bear. For its smallest model, that means they take their world car and strip the HELL out of it before depositing it on our shores, bereft of even items people long thought had become standard in America (like the defroster and power steering, both optional in the last-gen Echo, and the radio, tachometer etc in the current Yaris).

    I will add one thing though: don't think for a minute the next-gen Fit will be the ripping bargain the current model is. The current price is only because it's an older model that required almost no changes to introduce to the U.S. The next one, I bet, will be large enough to be considered a sort of slightly smaller Civic hatch, and will be a couple thousand more in price. Which would still make it a bargain in my mind, if they can keep the handling and Magic seat intact, and boost the fuel economy a bit.

    The Accent makes a very convincing argument if you test drive the SE (too bad about no available cruise control). But the fuel economy is very underwhelming IMO, a criticism I also apply to the Versa.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

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