I do think that in this day and age, safety features such as side air bags/curtains and ABS should be standard. Especially when it is difficult to find a car so equipped. That was the case with the Yaris, as has been pointed out by the automotive press. It appears that Toyota has started making more Yarii with ABS and side bags, and that is a good thing.
My point about asking you about cars like the Prius and diesel Golf was to highlight the fact that fuel economy is not an end-all. You acknowledge you have other important requirements in a car, e.g. it must cost under $16,000 new. And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?
I don't have an "intense dislike" for the Yaris. As I stated, I think it has compromises that I'm not willing to make. I also said it can be just the right car and a good value for other people who have different requirements in a car than I have.
Fine, why the obsession with running it down and splitting hairs over every comment someone leaves here?
What about the obsession about belittling my opinion and putting labels on me (not you, but other people) like "Hyundai apologist" just because I am being honest about what I think about the value of the Yaris? Isn't that what this discussion is all about--talking about our opinions of the value of the Yaris? If it's clear-cut and you all want to say, "The Yaris is the perfect car and absolute best value for any prospective buyer!", why not shut this discussion down then, since there is no more to say about the topic.
P.S. I notice you don't object to the people who split hairs over every comment that I leave here.
Motion rejected. Backy may be biased toward Hyundai to some extent, but he makes lots of good points. I am considering the Yaris, but I see a lot features that may be better in much of its competition. I want views from all sides. I don't just want the Yaris/Toyota koolaid drinkers on here.
Nothing is wrong with pointing out logical reasons why people think the Yaris is a bad value. It keeps the discussion balanced. Its when we go off topic (Is the Yaris a Good Value) and get personal that causes the problem.
Backy is building a bad habit of going off topic and steering the conversation to a "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent", and getting extremely personal when people fire back with negative things towards the Hyundai Accent.
To keep the discussion objective, how about comparing the Toyota Yaris to the averages of its auto class instead of a specific car in the class. What is the average MPG for this class? What does the average car in this class offer in terms of standard features? What is the average 0 to 60 time? What is the average price for the base and fully load car in this class? These questions are ways to measure objectively how good or bad the Toyota Yaris is in terms of value.
MSN.com has the averages for small cars (The Corolla, Civic, Scion TC, Mazda 3, and Nissan Sentra are also included).
The average MSRP for small cars =$22,156 Yaris Sedan (the middle of the 3 trims) is priced at $11,925. The Liftback is priced at $11,050 (Not forgetting about you Boris13)
The average EPA estimated MPG for small cars is 24.41 City and 31.94 Highway. The Yaris is 34 city and 40 highway (manual transmission).
The average front legroom for small cars is 41.9 inch. The Yaris Sedan has 42.2 inch of front legroom. The Yaris Liftback has 40.3 inch.
The average rear headroom is 37.05 inch. The Yaris Liftback has 37.90 inch. The Yaris Sedan has 36.70 inches.
The average 0 to 60 time for small cars is 7.86 seconds. The Yaris sedan with a manual transmission was 8.84 seconds (Sorry Boris13, they did not show the numbers for a manual transmission in the Liftback)
If anyone can find some other averages to help find the objective value of the Toyota Yaris, it would be very helpful for the discussion.
Please point out one case in this discussion where I got "extremely personal" when someone else respectfully pointed out a negative on the Accent (i.e. without making a personal attack themselves).
Here are some averages from C/D's seven-car review of small cars from May 2006. Included were the Accent GLS, Caliber SE, Fit Sport, Reno, Rio5 SX, Versa 1.8SL, and Yaris S. All cars had manual transmissions. I think these cars are more direct competitors for the Yaris than the likes of cars such as the Corolla, Civic, tC, Mazda3, and Sentra, which are generally larger (with larger, more powerful, and thirstier engines) and more expensive, and have more standard features than the Yaris.
So now you're questioning Yaris value after I debunked your statement on Yaris performance? Look, I dont care if people value decent cup holder instead of fuel economy. I dont care if Hyundai offers 10 years warranty as long as Toyota in general continue to produce reliable cars. I dont see the Yaris as the ultimate sub-compact car but to me it is much better than the Accent. Can you at least admit that? I doubt it.
The reason I used the MSN.com averages is because most averages were a top 5 (In this case 7) comparison. Only MSN.com had more than 7, but it included the Honda Civic, Scion TC, and other larger cars. The review you have is a top 7 comparison. The Scion Xa and Xb were missing. Also the Chevy Aveo, Ford Focus, Suzuki Forenza, Saturn Ion, and the Kia Spectra were not calculated in the averages. All these cars can be obtained under 15K at the base price and all get at least 31 MPG on the Highway.
"I make a motion that Backy be banned from any more postings on any of the Yaris Boards. Do I have a second?"
Most people considering the cars available in the this class would ask a few questions, do their homework, offer their opinion, and be gone if they decided against a Yaris. Backy obviously made a different choice and has become obsessed with making sure that everyone on the Yaris forum understands every reason...forever. It is a bit strange that he (or she) continues to beat a dead horse around here. :confuse:
We get it Backy. You bought a Hyundi. You found it to be the best choice for you. That's fine. Your opinions were appreciated. No need to start a column here over it. Maybe put a few more miles on the car now.
Say we use these averages for the top 7 cars in this class (not all the cars in this class). Lets look at the pros and cons for the Toyota Yaris.
Pros: 1) Above average MPG (top priority in this class for most people) 2) At the base price is less costly than the average in this class. 3) Quicker from 0 to 60 MPH than the average car in this class. :shades: 4) Above average breaking distance than the average car in this class (Even with only 5 cars having antilock breaks).
Cons: 1) Cost more fully loaded than the average car in this class. (I bought mine for $14,900 which is barely below average) 2)Offers below average cargo space and interior volume than the average car in this class. 3) Weight is far below the average car in its class (Making it more likely to be affected by strong winds).
The funny thing is Backy isn't an owner of the Hyundai Accent. He goes to great lengths to extol the Accent's greatness over it's competition, including illogical arguments about how every negative formulation of its resale value is incorrect, YET in all the time he spends on these boards, he has yet to purchase the car. It seems he is in a constant persuit of "considering purchasing" the automobile. It seems to me that if the car was so much more competitive over the Yaris or Fit, he would have bought it by now. It seems the last Hyundai model he claimed to own is a 2001 Elantra which he subsequently sold to his sister because dealer trade-in value was so poor (but it still has great resale value!). Ironic how he got rid of the car right before the warranty ran out because Hyundai's are known for their superior reliability.
I was curious to see how many USED Hyundai Accents were available within a 250MILE radius of my location built CIRCA year 2000. I figured if the Accent was as robust as some have claimed, there should be plenty of older used Accents available to purchase. I was shocked not to say the least Out of 140 available used Accents (I also included Excels as they were produced prior to 1995), ONLY ONE (1) was older than MY 2000 (it was a 1995 model claiming it didn't start selling for $450). So older generation Accents account for a mere 0.7% of total used Accents. Wow. Keep in mind Hyundai sold 41,235 Accents in 1999. My question: Where are they?
So I thought maybe this was common for across all makes and models so I compared used Toyota Corolla's. Out of the 973 available, 81 were manufactured prior to year 2000, or 8.0% of total used Corolla's.
This data can be interpreted in a number of ways: 1.Older Accents built prior to 2000 are beloved by their owners and are not sold on the used market (and thus older Corolla's are generally disliked by their owners and sold at a much higher rate). Seems unlikely
2. Older Accents command such low demand and thus their resale value is so low that selling them would be financially reckless for the owners that are stuck with them. Possible.
3. Older Accents have a life of roughly 7 years and thus completely fall apart after their life expectancy making sales of them on the used market impossible (save for a 1995 that didn't start). Most likely.
Again this is not "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent" forum, nor is it bash Backy for the annoying things he says. The topic is "Toyota Yaris: Is it a Good Value?"
Backy in his last post delivered averages of the top 7 cars in this auto class without mentioning the Hyundai Accent. He also showed where the Yaris stands compared to the averages, not the Hyundai Accent. He is currently staying on the topic of this forum "Toyota Yaris: Is it a Good Value?" I was hoping others could do the same.
So now you're questioning Yaris value after I debunked your statement on Yaris performance?
Actually it was the editors of Edmunds.com questioning the Yaris' value, in the review on the Yaris for which you posted the link.
I respect your opinion that the Yaris is much better overall than the Accent, but I don't share that opinion. I think the Yaris tops the Accent in some areas, but the Accent is superior to the Yaris in other areas. The editors of C/D rated the Yaris S in front of the Accent in their comparo. CR rated the Accent in front of the Yaris. Edmunds.com noted that the Yaris is an average car and others, including the Fit and Accent, are better values. Cars.com put the Fit and Accent ahead of the Yaris for value. How each person determins the value of the Yaris for them depends on what criteria are most important for them.
Using cars.com, I wanted to know how many MY 1999 Accents were available across the entire U.S. Apparently there are only 27. Therefore, only a mere 0.06% of the total 41,235 Accents are available for sale on the used market. Compare that to 1999 Corollas. 304 are available. In 1999, Toyota sold roughly 190K Corollas, thus roughly 0.16% are available, nearly 3 times the percentage of the number of Accents for sale.
In the year 2013, I wonder many MY 2006 Accents you think will still be around? Probably not many if history is any indication.
Didn't you just state: Backy is building a bad habit of going off topic and steering the conversation to a "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent", and getting extremely personal when people fire back with negative things towards the Hyundai Accent.?
If we compare the Yaris to class averages, I really think we should stay within its class--which is the "B" class, not the compact class. xA and xB were not included in the C/D comparo because they are "dead" cars, soon to be discontinued in their present form. The Aveo was not included because the revised 2007 model wasn't available yet. Based on other reviews of it, I really don't think it compares well to the Yaris. The Reno is the hatchback verson of the Forenza. The Focus, Ion, and Spectra are really in the compact class (actually the Reno and Caliber are too when it comes down to it). They compete more in the compact class along with the Corolla, Civic, Elantra, Mazda3, and Sentra, although buyers may cross-shop the Yaris with some of these because the prices are in the same range.
The results of comparing a small car like the Yaris to a much larger car like the Sentra or Elantra are predictable. The Yaris will win handily on fuel economy and starting price. The larger cars will trounce the Yaris in interior room, comfort and convenience features, power, refinement, and at least some aspects of performance (although the Yaris' light weight will let it do well there). So that's why I prefer to compare the Yaris to the likes of the Fit, Accent, Rio/Rio5, Versa (and if you want to see a real clobbering, the Aveo).
I think you hit the pros of the Yaris pretty well: high fuel economy and good 0-60 times for the class (low weight has some big advantages!), low base price, good braking distance with ABS (only car in the comparo that beat it was the Rio5, by one foot).
The thing about looking at pros and cons "by the numbers" is that they don't tell the whole story about value. So it's important for buyers to look at the non-numerical aspects of the car as well, through research and a long test drive. For example, many reviews note the smooth ride of the Yaris. As well as other aspects of the car, some of which are not positive so I won't mention them or the Yaris Police will show up again. :sick:
The irony is that you have told many users (including myself) that we were not welcome on the Hyundai Elantra forums because of this exact reason. Then again, I actually own an Elantra...What's your excuse for being on a Toyota forum?
I don't know what kind of jollies you get nitpicking every little aspect of my car-buying life, but don't you have something better to do? Certainly the people turing to this forum for a discussion on the Yaris' value have something better to do.
As for whether people are welcome on the Hyundai discussions, I welcome anyone who comes to discuss Hyundais, stay on topic, and be civil and respectful of others posting there.
You are a ball of irony. You are a Hyundai sycophant to the bitter end yet your actions don't reflect your words. You've spent countless hours glorifying the Accent, while bashing all of it's competitors, yet you don't even own the car you claim is superior. You have racked up more miles on Hyundai test drives than some people drive in a year, yet the Accent is nowhere to be found in your driveway. We just don't understand you I guess
In that post I finished by asking Backy to compare the Yaris to the numbers of the average car in its class, not a specific car (Hyundai Accent). He did just that which is breaking his bad habit. You decided to bring the discussion back to "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent," which temps him to go back off topic and into his bad habit.
Again, can we please focus the discussion on the Toyota Yaris!!!!!
Please refrain from personal attacks and insults in our forums. While we expect that people will have different opinions and will often disagree, we also expect that forum members will conduct themselves in a civil manner and in a way that is accordance with our Membership Agreement. Please take this as your cue to refrain from the inappropriate content in some of the recent posts.
Interesting study. Nothing at all to do with the Yaris, but an interesting study. How did you do it--what sources did you use? I just ran two searches on cars.com for a 250 mile radius of my zip code. Here are the results:
87 available Accents/Excels, 11 from before 2000, or 12.6%. 551 available Corollas, 57 of them from before 2000, or 10.3%.
Shall we get back to the Yaris, or do you have other numbers on the Accent and Corolla that you feel you must share with us?
I guess it all depends on where you live (poorer the area, more likely to have broken 1995 accents for sale). For me, only 4 Accents built before MY 2000 are available within 500MILES of my zip (2 of which I inquired from the seller don't run). Nevertheless, the number of Circa 2000 Hyundai's of ALL models in general accross the ENTIRE U.S. is astonishingly low: 297 vehicles (a good portion of which are not in running condition). Given that Hyundai sold in excess of 600,000 cars during the period between 1986 and 1999, one can only wonder about the longevity of the brand. As I've previously stated, nearly 3 times the percentage of 1999 Corolla's are for sale as compared with Accents. Somehow i'm not surprised.
This does somehow (lol) relate back to the Toyota Yaris. Statistically speaking, as a brand, a Toyota vehicle is more likely to be on the road in 7+ years, will have a far greater resale value, and will be far less difficult to sell at private-sale than a Hyundai. Unfortunately, as i've stated in other forums and blogs, the number of sellers I contacted who owned Hyundai vehicles of this vintage, the demand is just so low that owners are forced to sell their cars at near wholesale prices or sell to places such as CarMax. Something to think about when purchasing a new economy car (be that a Yaris, Fit, Versa, Accent, Rio, etc).
Another astonishing number is to compare the number of used Subaru's between 1986-1999 with that of Hyundai. 1140 used Subarus are available across the entire U.S. compared with 297 Hyundais. What's astonishing about that number is that Subaru sold less than half the number of Hyundai's during that same period. Sorry to go off topic, but I thought it was interesting.
This is interesting in that I just did a search on one site, cars.com, for a 250 mile radius around the Twin Cities (and there's not much in the way of big cities in a 250 mile radius of the Twin Cities) I found 27 pre-2000 Hyundais for sale. Most of these were by car dealers, so I'm assuming they are in running order. So it seems this area of the Upper Midwest that has maybe 5 million people, or less than 2% of the U.S. population, is responsible for nearly 10% of all pre-2000 Hyundais for sale in the country. And I didn't even check all of the sources that list used cars for sale.
Some things for you to consider:
* The Hyundais made in the '80s and early '90s were pretty bad cars--the Excel, the first-gen Sonata, and starting in '92 the first-gen Elantra. Most of those 600k cars you mentioned from years 1986-99 came very early on, e.g. 126k in 1986 and 264k in 1987. It's not surprising few of them are still around. Sales started to plummet until in 1998, U.S. sales were only 90k units, and only the Accent, Elantra, and Sonata were available. Then HMA introduced the 10-year warranty for 1999, Hyundai started its quality push at the same time, and the rest is, as they say, history.
* Hyundais have changed a LOT since those early days. So consider whether it's relevant to look back into the 1980s and 1990s and at how many Hyundais are for sale from those years, rather than focusing on current realities--which are well documented by the automotive press, so I am not asking you or anyone else to take my word for it. The facts are out there if you are willing to look for them.
Funny, I was going to remark that I have seen relatively few Yaris sedans, although I do see some of the hatchbacks running around. Perhaps it's because the hatches are so distinctive that I notice them more.
In the last two or three weeks my dealer has finally received the first shipment of Yarii that have "stuck" - that is to say, he now has a few to choose from when you walk on the lot, including hatchbacks. For a while there they were disappearing almost as fast as they arrived.
Yaris, Corolla, Camry, all three must be selling really well as most dealers don't seem to have very many, especially when you consider the annual sales of Corolla and Camry in particular. Now over in the truck section, you can hear the crickets chirping, it's so quiet. The only "trucks" that seem to be selling well are the new RAV4 (the reason for the quotation marks) and Tacoma.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
We're talking about the Yaris here and not how many Hyundai have been sold, etc. If you would like to discuss Hyundai - please take that to a Hyundai in the US topic (or create a new discussion).
The last 3 posts which were off-topic have been removed.
There are posts that are off-topic by more than 1 person and not just the ones you have noted. Sometimes discussions take a little off-topic turn which is fine and we don't delete so long as the discussion gets back on track. Because we had to make a few requests here we are deleting some of the more recent off-topic posts. As time permits, we'll go back and possibly delete ALL the off-topic posts.
We own an 03 echo, and looking at the new yaris and scions noticed they continue to use the same wonderfully reliable engine and seem to have about the same cockpit. So if you can get past the style, something to consider is a used private buy 2003 Echo, for about $8500 bluebook, no tax, no doc fee, no add ons. It's about half the price of a new yaris!
"You acknowledge you have other important requirements in a car, e.g. it must cost under $16,000 new."
Yes, I am looking for low purchase price AND low operating costs... an inexpensive car from "cradle" to "grave." What's the point in considering a high-MPG car if I can't afford to buy it?
"And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?"
It comes down to TOTAL economy. And yes, I do need a few features... but note that I'm NOT in need of a sunroof or a navigation system. I'm looking for features that are considered basic, that's all. Regarding the proposed alternative of buying a used Echo -- I considered it briefly, but realized that I want a NEW car (because new cars come with things like warranties and predictable dependability/durability).
My research of quality-built, inexpensive NEW cars -- offering the best fuel economy possible in a configuration that works for me -- led me to the Yaris 5-speed hatchback.
"Regarding the proposed alternative of buying a used Echo -- I considered it briefly, but realized that I want a NEW car (because new cars come with things like warranties and predictable dependability/durability)."
That's the beauty of toyota's: you don't need a warranty! I've owned only used toyotas my whole life and never had a single thing go wrong that wasn't due. And used toyotas have the best "predictable dependability/reliability" in the world: with so many out there you have proven reliability whereas with new cars you can only assume they'll be reliable as the years go on. I love the look of the new yaris hatchback but just can't justify it in relation to a two year old echo.
Yes a used ECHO would be an excellent value over a new Yaris. AlTHOUGH I must say if you can score a new Yaris for under $14k bottom line youve got one excellent, cheap car there! My 01 ECHO is six years old now. NO problems, origional battery, origional EVERYTHING. 35k miles. If you get a used ECHO for like $6-8K and put maybe $500 into tires, battery, maybe a muffler and brake pads, you are GOOD TO GO!
Well, it's sort of a moot point with me, since I already put in an order for a Yaris. But I believe that Toyota didn't make an Echo in a hatchback anyway (in the US), did they? I need a hatchback.
Thats what I thought when i bought the ECHO:damn this isnt a hatch! But with the fold down seats I can leave the trunk open and recline the passanger seat too. Practically, the sedan works OK for me. Also, I have a 2 door and the door openings are HUGE. I dont miss the hatch at all. AND in a hatch with the rear seats UP, you have practically ZEROroom in the rear. The ECHOs trunk is pretty big by itself.
We wanted a cheap, reliable, little car to zoom around town in. So I lucked out and found a 2001 ECHO w/70,000 miles. Paid 2,200 cash , out the door! It was for my wife and now I find myself driving the car more than her!! I like small cars, hatchbacks love em. Don't no why. Hatchbacks Echo were not available in the states, only 2-door, 4-door, We are amazed with the way the car drives. The room, to zoom around town in its pretty cool!
I originally started looking for an Echo and spent quite a while searching. What I found was that to get an Echo that didn't have a lot of miles on it people were asking $10k and up. With the base on a new Yaris only $11k it didn't make sense to waste any more time searching as I really needed a car. With all the options I wanted it came in at a little over $15k out the door. Percentage wise, 50% more than an Echo. But, dollar wise, only $5k. To me it was worth the exta money to have a new car with no miles on it and that I know the history of. Hopefully I'll never need the warranty either, but it's there if I do.
When I first test drove the hatchback I was pleasantly surprised at the space and headroom in the back. That was one thing I checked as I didn't want my passengers to feel like they were sitting on a ledge with their knees up to their chin.
I would agree, though, that a good Echo at a good price is a great alternative. Everyone I've spoken to who has one only had good things to say. Brettes23, you did GOOD!!
Based on the IIHS crash tests on the Yaris, its value equation (when equipped with SABs) just went way up. The Yaris had the second-best results of cars equipped with SABs in the IIHS' test of B-class cars, G/G/M, bettered only by the larger/heavier Versa. Without SABs, the Yaris scored Poor on the side crash test (no surprise). Which demonstrates the value of SABs and explains why people like me won't buy a car without them.
Since some posters here have asked that we stick to the Yaris, I won't dwell on the scores of the other cars in the test, but I know someone else will probably want to bring them up.
Balance that off against ruining the environment driving vehicles that get 15 mpg, causing us to fight a war in Iraq (and anywhere else our oil supplies are threatened) and giving hostile governments a chokehold on us economically if they decide to cut off our oil. No thanks Ill take my chances in an ECHO!
Studies are saying if we go to plug in hybrids that get 65 mpg the co2 emissions only drop 5% compared to gas engines. 80% of Americas co2 emissions are not linked to the automobile. Saving gas and saving the environment are two different things.
Every little bit helps! Burning half the fossil fuel we use for transportation wouldnt be a little thing. Can you imagine the effect on our balance of trade to cut in half our fuel requirements?
I had an Environmentalist tell me that a lawn mower ran once a week over a average summer puts out more green house gases than an automobile does over a year.
The article said, "Only the Versa and Yaris with optional side air bags avoided a poor rating." Note that it didn't say: "...the Yaris with side air bags achieved a good rating." Subtle bias, there.
It stands to reason that a DETROIT newspaper would print an article biased in favor of bigger vehicles (which is what the domestic automakers, based in Detroit, make... for the most part).
I live in the Detroit area and am puzzled by the failure of the Big Three (or Big 2 1/2, if you will) to read the writing on the wall: gas prices will continue to rise and Americans will be demanding more small, fuel-efficient cars... yet, the US automakers continue to produce gigantic SUVs and inefficient cars that barely average 20 mpg.
Just watch... this summer, as gas tops $3 a gallon again, new/used gas-guzzling SUVs and luxury cars will be piling up on car dealers' lots, unsold. You won't be able to GIVE AWAY a Navigator or a Grand Cherokee.
If Detroit doesn't respond to changes in the marketplace, the US auto industry will die. And I for one will shed no tears. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been producing crap for years and they expect us to buy it.
Then why is Toyota getting into the big truck game? Have you seen the size of the Tundra Crew Cab. I'll bet it doesn't get 14 mpg overall. Trucks are never coming off the road. Half our economy is based on new housing, and you need trucks to build them. You could in theory get rid of suvs, but pickups are going to sell by the millions no matter what gas prices do. At $4 a gallon you might see truck sales drop 25%, and that still equals 2 million a year. If your car breaks down the tow company isn't coming to get you in a Impala.
Comments
My point about asking you about cars like the Prius and diesel Golf was to highlight the fact that fuel economy is not an end-all. You acknowledge you have other important requirements in a car, e.g. it must cost under $16,000 new. And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?
I don't have an "intense dislike" for the Yaris. As I stated, I think it has compromises that I'm not willing to make. I also said it can be just the right car and a good value for other people who have different requirements in a car than I have.
What about the obsession about belittling my opinion and putting labels on me (not you, but other people) like "Hyundai apologist" just because I am being honest about what I think about the value of the Yaris? Isn't that what this discussion is all about--talking about our opinions of the value of the Yaris? If it's clear-cut and you all want to say, "The Yaris is the perfect car and absolute best value for any prospective buyer!", why not shut this discussion down then, since there is no more to say about the topic.
P.S. I notice you don't object to the people who split hairs over every comment that I leave here.
Backy is building a bad habit of going off topic and steering the conversation to a "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent", and getting extremely personal when people fire back with negative things towards the Hyundai Accent.
To keep the discussion objective, how about comparing the Toyota Yaris to the averages of its auto class instead of a specific car in the class. What is the average MPG for this class? What does the average car in this class offer in terms of standard features? What is the average 0 to 60 time? What is the average price for the base and fully load car in this class? These questions are ways to measure objectively how good or bad the Toyota Yaris is in terms of value.
The average MSRP for small cars =$22,156
Yaris Sedan (the middle of the 3 trims) is priced at $11,925. The Liftback is priced at $11,050 (Not forgetting about you Boris13)
The average EPA estimated MPG for small cars is 24.41 City and 31.94 Highway.
The Yaris is 34 city and 40 highway (manual transmission).
The average front legroom for small cars is 41.9 inch.
The Yaris Sedan has 42.2 inch of front legroom.
The Yaris Liftback has 40.3 inch.
The average rear headroom is 37.05 inch.
The Yaris Liftback has 37.90 inch.
The Yaris Sedan has 36.70 inches.
The average 0 to 60 time for small cars is 7.86 seconds.
The Yaris sedan with a manual transmission was 8.84 seconds (Sorry Boris13, they did not show the numbers for a manual transmission in the Liftback)
If anyone can find some other averages to help find the objective value of the Toyota Yaris, it would be very helpful for the discussion.
Here are some averages from C/D's seven-car review of small cars from May 2006. Included were the Accent GLS, Caliber SE, Fit Sport, Reno, Rio5 SX, Versa 1.8SL, and Yaris S. All cars had manual transmissions. I think these cars are more direct competitors for the Yaris than the likes of cars such as the Corolla, Civic, tC, Mazda3, and Sentra, which are generally larger (with larger, more powerful, and thirstier engines) and more expensive, and have more standard features than the Yaris.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10925/15000-cheap-skates.html
Figures are Yaris S / Test Average:
bhp: 106 / 119
Torque: 103 / 115
lb per bhp: 22.5 / 22.4
0-30: 2.8 / 2.9
0-60: 8.9 / 9.4
0-100: 30.8 / 32.2
1/4 mile @ mph: 17.0 @ 82 / 17.1 @ 81
rolling 5-60: 9.5 / 10.1
30-50: 13.5 / 12.6
50-70: 14.2 / 13.7
top speed: 113 / 114
dBA idle: 41 / 40
dBA full throttle: 76 / 76
dBA 70 mph cruise: 72 / 71
EPA city: 34 / 30
EPA highway: 40 / 35
C/D 1000 mile trip: 36 / 31
braking, 70-0 feet: 166 / 175 (note that 2 cars did not have ABS, the Yaris S did)
300 foot skidpad, g: .79 / .78
lane change, mph: 64.4 / 64.8
base price: $13,905 / $14,248
as tested: $15,255 / $14,938
weight: 2377 / 2649
front interior volume, cu. ft.: 49 / 52
rear interior volume, cu. ft.: 38 / 41
cargo space, rear seats up/down, cu. ft.: 13 / 32, 15 / 43
Look, I dont care if people value decent cup holder instead of fuel economy. I dont care if Hyundai offers 10 years warranty as long as Toyota in general continue to produce reliable cars.
I dont see the Yaris as the ultimate sub-compact car but to me it is much better than the Accent. Can you at least admit that? I doubt it.
Most people considering the cars available in the this class would ask a few questions, do their homework, offer their opinion, and be gone if they decided against a Yaris. Backy obviously made a different choice and has become obsessed with making sure that everyone on the Yaris forum understands every reason...forever. It is a bit strange that he (or she) continues to beat a dead horse around here. :confuse:
We get it Backy. You bought a Hyundi. You found it to be the best choice for you. That's fine. Your opinions were appreciated. No need to start a column here over it. Maybe put a few more miles on the car now.
Pros:
1) Above average MPG (top priority in this class for most people)
2) At the base price is less costly than the average in this class.
3) Quicker from 0 to 60 MPH than the average car in this class. :shades:
4) Above average breaking distance than the average car in this class (Even with only 5 cars having antilock breaks).
Cons:
1) Cost more fully loaded than the average car in this class. (I bought mine for $14,900 which is barely below average)
2)Offers below average cargo space and interior volume than the average car in this class.
3) Weight is far below the average car in its class (Making it more likely to be affected by strong winds).
Out of 140 available used Accents (I also included Excels as they were produced prior to 1995), ONLY ONE (1) was older than MY 2000 (it was a 1995 model claiming it didn't start selling for $450). So older generation Accents account for a mere 0.7% of total used Accents. Wow. Keep in mind Hyundai sold 41,235 Accents in 1999. My question: Where are they?
So I thought maybe this was common for across all makes and models so I compared used Toyota Corolla's. Out of the 973 available, 81 were manufactured prior to year 2000, or 8.0% of total used Corolla's.
This data can be interpreted in a number of ways:
1.Older Accents built prior to 2000 are beloved by their owners and are not sold on the used market (and thus older Corolla's are generally disliked by their owners and sold at a much higher rate). Seems unlikely
2. Older Accents command such low demand and thus their resale value is so low that selling them would be financially reckless for the owners that are stuck with them. Possible.
3. Older Accents have a life of roughly 7 years and thus completely fall apart after their life expectancy making sales of them on the used market impossible (save for a 1995 that didn't start). Most likely.
Backy in his last post delivered averages of the top 7 cars in this auto class without mentioning the Hyundai Accent. He also showed where the Yaris stands compared to the averages, not the Hyundai Accent. He is currently staying on the topic of this forum "Toyota Yaris: Is it a Good Value?" I was hoping others could do the same.
Actually it was the editors of Edmunds.com questioning the Yaris' value, in the review on the Yaris for which you posted the link.
I respect your opinion that the Yaris is much better overall than the Accent, but I don't share that opinion. I think the Yaris tops the Accent in some areas, but the Accent is superior to the Yaris in other areas. The editors of C/D rated the Yaris S in front of the Accent in their comparo. CR rated the Accent in front of the Yaris. Edmunds.com noted that the Yaris is an average car and others, including the Fit and Accent, are better values. Cars.com put the Fit and Accent ahead of the Yaris for value. How each person determins the value of the Yaris for them depends on what criteria are most important for them.
In the year 2013, I wonder many MY 2006 Accents you think will still be around? Probably not many if history is any indication.
The results of comparing a small car like the Yaris to a much larger car like the Sentra or Elantra are predictable. The Yaris will win handily on fuel economy and starting price. The larger cars will trounce the Yaris in interior room, comfort and convenience features, power, refinement, and at least some aspects of performance (although the Yaris' light weight will let it do well there). So that's why I prefer to compare the Yaris to the likes of the Fit, Accent, Rio/Rio5, Versa (and if you want to see a real clobbering, the Aveo).
The thing about looking at pros and cons "by the numbers" is that they don't tell the whole story about value. So it's important for buyers to look at the non-numerical aspects of the car as well, through research and a long test drive. For example, many reviews note the smooth ride of the Yaris. As well as other aspects of the car, some of which are not positive so I won't mention them or the Yaris Police will show up again. :sick:
Kettle black much?
As for whether people are welcome on the Hyundai discussions, I welcome anyone who comes to discuss Hyundais, stay on topic, and be civil and respectful of others posting there.
How do you like your Yaris, btw?
Again, can we please focus the discussion on the Toyota Yaris!!!!!
Thank you for your cooperation,
reuel3
Host - Hatchbacks
87 available Accents/Excels, 11 from before 2000, or 12.6%.
551 available Corollas, 57 of them from before 2000, or 10.3%.
Shall we get back to the Yaris, or do you have other numbers on the Accent and Corolla that you feel you must share with us?
This does somehow (lol) relate back to the Toyota Yaris. Statistically speaking, as a brand, a Toyota vehicle is more likely to be on the road in 7+ years, will have a far greater resale value, and will be far less difficult to sell at private-sale than a Hyundai. Unfortunately, as i've stated in other forums and blogs, the number of sellers I contacted who owned Hyundai vehicles of this vintage, the demand is just so low that owners are forced to sell their cars at near wholesale prices or sell to places such as CarMax. Something to think about when purchasing a new economy car (be that a Yaris, Fit, Versa, Accent, Rio, etc).
Some things for you to consider:
* The Hyundais made in the '80s and early '90s were pretty bad cars--the Excel, the first-gen Sonata, and starting in '92 the first-gen Elantra. Most of those 600k cars you mentioned from years 1986-99 came very early on, e.g. 126k in 1986 and 264k in 1987. It's not surprising few of them are still around. Sales started to plummet until in 1998, U.S. sales were only 90k units, and only the Accent, Elantra, and Sonata were available. Then HMA introduced the 10-year warranty for 1999, Hyundai started its quality push at the same time, and the rest is, as they say, history.
* Hyundais have changed a LOT since those early days. So consider whether it's relevant to look back into the 1980s and 1990s and at how many Hyundais are for sale from those years, rather than focusing on current realities--which are well documented by the automotive press, so I am not asking you or anyone else to take my word for it. The facts are out there if you are willing to look for them.
Let's stick to the Toyota Yaris topic.
Thanks!
In the last two or three weeks my dealer has finally received the first shipment of Yarii that have "stuck" - that is to say, he now has a few to choose from when you walk on the lot, including hatchbacks. For a while there they were disappearing almost as fast as they arrived.
Yaris, Corolla, Camry, all three must be selling really well as most dealers don't seem to have very many, especially when you consider the annual sales of Corolla and Camry in particular.
Now over in the truck section, you can hear the crickets chirping, it's so quiet. The only "trucks" that seem to be selling well are the new RAV4 (the reason for the quotation marks) and Tacoma.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The last 3 posts which were off-topic have been removed.
Yes, I am looking for low purchase price AND low operating costs... an inexpensive car from "cradle" to "grave." What's the point in considering a high-MPG car if I can't afford to buy it?
"And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?"
It comes down to TOTAL economy. And yes, I do need a few features... but note that I'm NOT in need of a sunroof or a navigation system. I'm looking for features that are considered basic, that's all. Regarding the proposed alternative of buying a used Echo -- I considered it briefly, but realized that I want a NEW car (because new cars come with things like warranties and predictable dependability/durability).
My research of quality-built, inexpensive NEW cars -- offering the best fuel economy possible in a configuration that works for me -- led me to the Yaris 5-speed hatchback.
Again, a good value.
That's the beauty of toyota's: you don't need a warranty! I've owned only used toyotas my whole life and never had a single thing go wrong that wasn't due. And used toyotas have the best "predictable dependability/reliability" in the world: with so many out there you have proven reliability whereas with new cars you can only assume they'll be reliable as the years go on. I love the look of the new yaris hatchback but just can't justify it in relation to a two year old echo.
When I first test drove the hatchback I was pleasantly surprised at the space and headroom in the back. That was one thing I checked as I didn't want my passengers to feel like they were sitting on a ledge with their knees up to their chin.
I would agree, though, that a good Echo at a good price is a great alternative. Everyone I've spoken to who has one only had good things to say. Brettes23, you did GOOD!!
Since some posters here have asked that we stick to the Yaris, I won't dwell on the scores of the other cars in the test, but I know someone else will probably want to bring them up.
http://www.iihs.org/
Detroit News
It stands to reason that a DETROIT newspaper would print an article biased in favor of bigger vehicles (which is what the domestic automakers, based in Detroit, make... for the most part).
I live in the Detroit area and am puzzled by the failure of the Big Three (or Big 2 1/2, if you will) to read the writing on the wall: gas prices will continue to rise and Americans will be demanding more small, fuel-efficient cars... yet, the US automakers continue to produce gigantic SUVs and inefficient cars that barely average 20 mpg.
Just watch... this summer, as gas tops $3 a gallon again, new/used gas-guzzling SUVs and luxury cars will be piling up on car dealers' lots, unsold. You won't be able to GIVE AWAY a Navigator or a Grand Cherokee.
If Detroit doesn't respond to changes in the marketplace, the US auto industry will die. And I for one will shed no tears. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been producing crap for years and they expect us to buy it.
I say, NO. No more.