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Comments
My point about asking you about cars like the Prius and diesel Golf was to highlight the fact that fuel economy is not an end-all. You acknowledge you have other important requirements in a car, e.g. it must cost under $16,000 new. And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?
I don't have an "intense dislike" for the Yaris. As I stated, I think it has compromises that I'm not willing to make. I also said it can be just the right car and a good value for other people who have different requirements in a car than I have.
What about the obsession about belittling my opinion and putting labels on me (not you, but other people) like "Hyundai apologist" just because I am being honest about what I think about the value of the Yaris? Isn't that what this discussion is all about--talking about our opinions of the value of the Yaris? If it's clear-cut and you all want to say, "The Yaris is the perfect car and absolute best value for any prospective buyer!", why not shut this discussion down then, since there is no more to say about the topic.
P.S. I notice you don't object to the people who split hairs over every comment that I leave here.
Backy is building a bad habit of going off topic and steering the conversation to a "Toyota Yaris verses Hyundai Accent", and getting extremely personal when people fire back with negative things towards the Hyundai Accent.
To keep the discussion objective, how about comparing the Toyota Yaris to the averages of its auto class instead of a specific car in the class. What is the average MPG for this class? What does the average car in this class offer in terms of standard features? What is the average 0 to 60 time? What is the average price for the base and fully load car in this class? These questions are ways to measure objectively how good or bad the Toyota Yaris is in terms of value.
The average MSRP for small cars =$22,156
Yaris Sedan (the middle of the 3 trims) is priced at $11,925. The Liftback is priced at $11,050 (Not forgetting about you Boris13)
The average EPA estimated MPG for small cars is 24.41 City and 31.94 Highway.
The Yaris is 34 city and 40 highway (manual transmission).
The average front legroom for small cars is 41.9 inch.
The Yaris Sedan has 42.2 inch of front legroom.
The Yaris Liftback has 40.3 inch.
The average rear headroom is 37.05 inch.
The Yaris Liftback has 37.90 inch.
The Yaris Sedan has 36.70 inches.
The average 0 to 60 time for small cars is 7.86 seconds.
The Yaris sedan with a manual transmission was 8.84 seconds (Sorry Boris13, they did not show the numbers for a manual transmission in the Liftback)
If anyone can find some other averages to help find the objective value of the Toyota Yaris, it would be very helpful for the discussion.
Here are some averages from C/D's seven-car review of small cars from May 2006. Included were the Accent GLS, Caliber SE, Fit Sport, Reno, Rio5 SX, Versa 1.8SL, and Yaris S. All cars had manual transmissions. I think these cars are more direct competitors for the Yaris than the likes of cars such as the Corolla, Civic, tC, Mazda3, and Sentra, which are generally larger (with larger, more powerful, and thirstier engines) and more expensive, and have more standard features than the Yaris.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/10925/15000-cheap-skates.html
Figures are Yaris S / Test Average:
bhp: 106 / 119
Torque: 103 / 115
lb per bhp: 22.5 / 22.4
0-30: 2.8 / 2.9
0-60: 8.9 / 9.4
0-100: 30.8 / 32.2
1/4 mile @ mph: 17.0 @ 82 / 17.1 @ 81
rolling 5-60: 9.5 / 10.1
30-50: 13.5 / 12.6
50-70: 14.2 / 13.7
top speed: 113 / 114
dBA idle: 41 / 40
dBA full throttle: 76 / 76
dBA 70 mph cruise: 72 / 71
EPA city: 34 / 30
EPA highway: 40 / 35
C/D 1000 mile trip: 36 / 31
braking, 70-0 feet: 166 / 175 (note that 2 cars did not have ABS, the Yaris S did)
300 foot skidpad, g: .79 / .78
lane change, mph: 64.4 / 64.8
base price: $13,905 / $14,248
as tested: $15,255 / $14,938
weight: 2377 / 2649
front interior volume, cu. ft.: 49 / 52
rear interior volume, cu. ft.: 38 / 41
cargo space, rear seats up/down, cu. ft.: 13 / 32, 15 / 43
Look, I dont care if people value decent cup holder instead of fuel economy. I dont care if Hyundai offers 10 years warranty as long as Toyota in general continue to produce reliable cars.
I dont see the Yaris as the ultimate sub-compact car but to me it is much better than the Accent. Can you at least admit that? I doubt it.
Most people considering the cars available in the this class would ask a few questions, do their homework, offer their opinion, and be gone if they decided against a Yaris. Backy obviously made a different choice and has become obsessed with making sure that everyone on the Yaris forum understands every reason...forever. It is a bit strange that he (or she) continues to beat a dead horse around here. :confuse:
We get it Backy. You bought a Hyundi. You found it to be the best choice for you. That's fine. Your opinions were appreciated. No need to start a column here over it. Maybe put a few more miles on the car now.
Pros:
1) Above average MPG (top priority in this class for most people)
2) At the base price is less costly than the average in this class.
3) Quicker from 0 to 60 MPH than the average car in this class. :shades:
4) Above average breaking distance than the average car in this class (Even with only 5 cars having antilock breaks).
Cons:
1) Cost more fully loaded than the average car in this class. (I bought mine for $14,900 which is barely below average)
2)Offers below average cargo space and interior volume than the average car in this class.
3) Weight is far below the average car in its class (Making it more likely to be affected by strong winds).
Out of 140 available used Accents (I also included Excels as they were produced prior to 1995), ONLY ONE (1) was older than MY 2000 (it was a 1995 model claiming it didn't start selling for $450). So older generation Accents account for a mere 0.7% of total used Accents. Wow. Keep in mind Hyundai sold 41,235 Accents in 1999. My question: Where are they?
So I thought maybe this was common for across all makes and models so I compared used Toyota Corolla's. Out of the 973 available, 81 were manufactured prior to year 2000, or 8.0% of total used Corolla's.
This data can be interpreted in a number of ways:
1.Older Accents built prior to 2000 are beloved by their owners and are not sold on the used market (and thus older Corolla's are generally disliked by their owners and sold at a much higher rate). Seems unlikely
2. Older Accents command such low demand and thus their resale value is so low that selling them would be financially reckless for the owners that are stuck with them. Possible.
3. Older Accents have a life of roughly 7 years and thus completely fall apart after their life expectancy making sales of them on the used market impossible (save for a 1995 that didn't start). Most likely.
Backy in his last post delivered averages of the top 7 cars in this auto class without mentioning the Hyundai Accent. He also showed where the Yaris stands compared to the averages, not the Hyundai Accent. He is currently staying on the topic of this forum "Toyota Yaris: Is it a Good Value?" I was hoping others could do the same.
Actually it was the editors of Edmunds.com questioning the Yaris' value, in the review on the Yaris for which you posted the link.
I respect your opinion that the Yaris is much better overall than the Accent, but I don't share that opinion. I think the Yaris tops the Accent in some areas, but the Accent is superior to the Yaris in other areas. The editors of C/D rated the Yaris S in front of the Accent in their comparo. CR rated the Accent in front of the Yaris. Edmunds.com noted that the Yaris is an average car and others, including the Fit and Accent, are better values. Cars.com put the Fit and Accent ahead of the Yaris for value. How each person determins the value of the Yaris for them depends on what criteria are most important for them.
In the year 2013, I wonder many MY 2006 Accents you think will still be around? Probably not many if history is any indication.
The results of comparing a small car like the Yaris to a much larger car like the Sentra or Elantra are predictable. The Yaris will win handily on fuel economy and starting price. The larger cars will trounce the Yaris in interior room, comfort and convenience features, power, refinement, and at least some aspects of performance (although the Yaris' light weight will let it do well there). So that's why I prefer to compare the Yaris to the likes of the Fit, Accent, Rio/Rio5, Versa (and if you want to see a real clobbering, the Aveo).
The thing about looking at pros and cons "by the numbers" is that they don't tell the whole story about value. So it's important for buyers to look at the non-numerical aspects of the car as well, through research and a long test drive. For example, many reviews note the smooth ride of the Yaris. As well as other aspects of the car, some of which are not positive so I won't mention them or the Yaris Police will show up again. :sick:
Kettle black much?
As for whether people are welcome on the Hyundai discussions, I welcome anyone who comes to discuss Hyundais, stay on topic, and be civil and respectful of others posting there.
How do you like your Yaris, btw?
Again, can we please focus the discussion on the Toyota Yaris!!!!!
Thank you for your cooperation,
reuel3
Host - Hatchbacks
87 available Accents/Excels, 11 from before 2000, or 12.6%.
551 available Corollas, 57 of them from before 2000, or 10.3%.
Shall we get back to the Yaris, or do you have other numbers on the Accent and Corolla that you feel you must share with us?
This does somehow (lol) relate back to the Toyota Yaris. Statistically speaking, as a brand, a Toyota vehicle is more likely to be on the road in 7+ years, will have a far greater resale value, and will be far less difficult to sell at private-sale than a Hyundai. Unfortunately, as i've stated in other forums and blogs, the number of sellers I contacted who owned Hyundai vehicles of this vintage, the demand is just so low that owners are forced to sell their cars at near wholesale prices or sell to places such as CarMax. Something to think about when purchasing a new economy car (be that a Yaris, Fit, Versa, Accent, Rio, etc).
Some things for you to consider:
* The Hyundais made in the '80s and early '90s were pretty bad cars--the Excel, the first-gen Sonata, and starting in '92 the first-gen Elantra. Most of those 600k cars you mentioned from years 1986-99 came very early on, e.g. 126k in 1986 and 264k in 1987. It's not surprising few of them are still around. Sales started to plummet until in 1998, U.S. sales were only 90k units, and only the Accent, Elantra, and Sonata were available. Then HMA introduced the 10-year warranty for 1999, Hyundai started its quality push at the same time, and the rest is, as they say, history.
* Hyundais have changed a LOT since those early days. So consider whether it's relevant to look back into the 1980s and 1990s and at how many Hyundais are for sale from those years, rather than focusing on current realities--which are well documented by the automotive press, so I am not asking you or anyone else to take my word for it. The facts are out there if you are willing to look for them.
Let's stick to the Toyota Yaris topic.
Thanks!
In the last two or three weeks my dealer has finally received the first shipment of Yarii that have "stuck" - that is to say, he now has a few to choose from when you walk on the lot, including hatchbacks. For a while there they were disappearing almost as fast as they arrived.
Yaris, Corolla, Camry, all three must be selling really well as most dealers don't seem to have very many, especially when you consider the annual sales of Corolla and Camry in particular.
Now over in the truck section, you can hear the crickets chirping, it's so quiet. The only "trucks" that seem to be selling well are the new RAV4 (the reason for the quotation marks) and Tacoma.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The last 3 posts which were off-topic have been removed.
Yes, I am looking for low purchase price AND low operating costs... an inexpensive car from "cradle" to "grave." What's the point in considering a high-MPG car if I can't afford to buy it?
"And you require certain comfort and convenience in your car, features not available on an ECHO even though it would cost less and get a little better fuel economy than a Yaris. So it's not just about fuel economy, is it?"
It comes down to TOTAL economy. And yes, I do need a few features... but note that I'm NOT in need of a sunroof or a navigation system. I'm looking for features that are considered basic, that's all. Regarding the proposed alternative of buying a used Echo -- I considered it briefly, but realized that I want a NEW car (because new cars come with things like warranties and predictable dependability/durability).
My research of quality-built, inexpensive NEW cars -- offering the best fuel economy possible in a configuration that works for me -- led me to the Yaris 5-speed hatchback.
Again, a good value.
That's the beauty of toyota's: you don't need a warranty! I've owned only used toyotas my whole life and never had a single thing go wrong that wasn't due. And used toyotas have the best "predictable dependability/reliability" in the world: with so many out there you have proven reliability whereas with new cars you can only assume they'll be reliable as the years go on. I love the look of the new yaris hatchback but just can't justify it in relation to a two year old echo.
When I first test drove the hatchback I was pleasantly surprised at the space and headroom in the back. That was one thing I checked as I didn't want my passengers to feel like they were sitting on a ledge with their knees up to their chin.
I would agree, though, that a good Echo at a good price is a great alternative. Everyone I've spoken to who has one only had good things to say. Brettes23, you did GOOD!!
Since some posters here have asked that we stick to the Yaris, I won't dwell on the scores of the other cars in the test, but I know someone else will probably want to bring them up.
http://www.iihs.org/
Detroit News
It stands to reason that a DETROIT newspaper would print an article biased in favor of bigger vehicles (which is what the domestic automakers, based in Detroit, make... for the most part).
I live in the Detroit area and am puzzled by the failure of the Big Three (or Big 2 1/2, if you will) to read the writing on the wall: gas prices will continue to rise and Americans will be demanding more small, fuel-efficient cars... yet, the US automakers continue to produce gigantic SUVs and inefficient cars that barely average 20 mpg.
Just watch... this summer, as gas tops $3 a gallon again, new/used gas-guzzling SUVs and luxury cars will be piling up on car dealers' lots, unsold. You won't be able to GIVE AWAY a Navigator or a Grand Cherokee.
If Detroit doesn't respond to changes in the marketplace, the US auto industry will die. And I for one will shed no tears. Ford, GM, and Chrysler have been producing crap for years and they expect us to buy it.
I say, NO. No more.