Hi adea. The hesitation is almost sure to be iginigtion related. If the plugs and wires are ok, one of the posters with a '99 at about 120,000 had a bad distributor pickup base plate, inside the distributor.
P.S. Who is supplying 4500psig ? I know some of the cascade filling systems have a 5,000 psi tank to top off , but it is suposed to be limited to 3800 psi delivery pressure.
At 4500 psi ,the rupture disk on the honda factory tank is real close to that. It would be a bad day at the office it it blows out!!!
Recently my 1999 Civic GX check engine light came on. I took it in for service. The GX trained tech at Garff Honda in SLC said that the code said the EGR had gone south. $163 for the part. Ten minutes to replace it. None in stock. I told him to order it.
Apparently EGR valves have become quite complex since the last time I bought one for $12 and fit it to the top of my '66 Mustang. But it set me back in my seat. (Circulating exhaust gas costs what? And why, if they burn so clean, does anyone worry about a GX have one of these at all? But alas, mine was not to question why. Mine was but to pay or die.)
Any of you experienced similar EGR problems? The car recently started hesitating and power loss going up hills is clearly evident (probably due to miss-firing). Tech says that if the EGR is bad, the computer gets bogus info from its blown brain, maps the fuel incorrectly and misfires result.
Any insight from you guys?
While talking to him (and he was a font of wisdom, a very nice guy) he explained that the 1999 GX only has one fuel filter. You shut off the gas, run the car till it stalls, then access the filter by pulling down the protective cover and open the bottom of it (the filter) with an Allen-wrench to drain off any excess condensation every 7500 to 10000 miles. Let is drip out, button it up, and you are good to go.
He explained that later model GX's (2001 forward he thought) have two fuel filters.
My 1999 GX has gone 212 on a single tank with a good fill. 6.5 gge went in that day. Top Stop in Park City, UT gives me about 3700 to 3800 psi on a good day (the best I've seen thus far). My fuel light came on at about 185 miles on that day. (Less effective fills cause the light to come on earlier.) I hear the SLC Airport refueling station is also filling a bit over 3600 psi. Cordially, -Art
Art...I looked in my 2000 GX supplement manual that came with the car, and it only shows one fuel filter, in the rear close to the tank, but nothing in the engine compartment like some have said on here. I think that guy was correct about only one filter for 2000 and before. Also, Autozone sells it for about $25 and my manual says to replace every 30K miles. So I'm thinking that may be why my engine idle is rough. I also now have a slight engine squeal when I accelerate or deacclerate. It only started happening after I had to switch to greedy CleanEnergy ($2.35/gal.). I had been using APS, which is an electric company out here, ($1.90/gal with a 15% mix of H2) but they no longer allow public access. I asked an expert on cng and he told me that those valves, etc. can handle more than 4500 psi, even though it says 3600. And for those people worrying about the tank, they will last longer than the car! adea
How do you measure the PSI you get at 3700 or 3800? Did you put in an extra pressure gauge? I finally tried driving 33 miles with the light on. It came on at ~180 miles after a good fill. I refueled at 213 and put in 7.157 GGE. I bought the car used and it has 70K, I am not too sure if I should replace the fuel filters yet. I have seen the videos on tank construction and will pass on the inspection until I have had it at least 36K or find a real need for it. Any advice on replacing the filters would be appreciated. I don't even know where it is. I don't have any of the manuals for it. Is there something you recommend to get or just the factory manual from Honda?
Cal...I used to get my fuel at APS, an electric co. here in AZ and they had gauges so you could see how much pressure...and their prices were ALWAYS lower than anyone else...I never paid more than $1.95...I always get at least 50 miles after the light comes on...one time I got 58 and it was almost empty. If you put in 7.2 then you must have an 8 gallon tank and > 2000 year...I have a 2000 and I know the tank is only 7. But now with the two tanks, it has taken up to 12.5 so far and I still get at least 50 after the light comes on...the last tanks went over 500 miles...and my mileage came to an even 40.0. Also, my 2000 has ONLY one fuel filter...located in the rear not far up the line from the tank...yours has a low pressure one next to the engine, and a high pressure one in the rear. I have 117K now, and I don't believe the previous owner ever changed any fuel filter so I ordered a supplement manual from helminc.com so I can see the procedure. My filter is only about $25, but I've read on here that the low pressure one is close to $100 and should be replaced every 10K, but it actually depends on what kind of gas you use...I used to use the cleanest there was with APS, but as soon as I switched to CleanEnergy, I started to hear a squeal and some rough idling...so I plan to change the rear filter soon. About the tank...I talked to a world-reknowned hydrogen expert and he said those tanks will outlast the car! adea
Wednesday I topped off after 15 miles and got 1.5 gge, gauge on my local pump has been giving me about 3500psi lately. I went 182 miles till light came on, then 5 miles later got a 4.5gge fillup. I figure The light comes on at just over 1000psi left in the tank. Usually that pump gives me right around 3600-3700psi, but once I filled in Diamond Bar (SCAQMD) and the Techs were tweaking the system, took 3 tries to fill, and got 4,000psi. I was concerned, but they said it was fine. I have gone 193 miles, 23 with light on, and had 500psi left in tank, took 5.5gge. J
J...I rarely refuel until the light comes on, then it is about 20-45 miles after that...once I went 58 after the light, but I know it was running on fumes and just made it to the fuel center...i was about 12 miles away and drove 42 mph which is the optimum speed for best mileage...but the few times I refueled just before the light or just after, the pressure gauge always showed under 1000 psi. adea
I have to fuel up every night after my 140 mile round trip commute, so I rarely see the fuel light. I stay in OC one night a week, so I usually fuel up before I head home. Although I can make it without the extra fuel stop, I like to play it safe. It was fine when the CE stations were cheaper than my local station, but now I top off locally. The only problem is I usually have to wait for a bus to finish filling up on weekday mornings. When I fill in the evening on the way home I never have to wait. I love it that I dont have to visit gas stations anymore!
There will be a Grand Opening event for the new CNG Station opening in Palmdale, Ca on Wed, May 23rd at 11am. This is the first public CNG refueling station in the nation at a Honda dealership. Robertson's Palmdale Honda, in the High Desert, will host the event at the dealership.
Free fuel will be dispenced to any CNG vehicle that attends and there will be give away items to commemorate the event. In attendance will be: SoCal Gas, NGV America, Gas Equipment Systems Inc, AQMD, Clean Energy, numerous NGV owners, Honda Corporate Alt Fuels Division, and more. We will have Los Angeles and local Press there to interview owners, so we hope to see you there.
I've been working on this project for almost a year and a half and I'm really excited to bring this station to the public. Robertson's Honda is opening new frontiers and making news around the world. This will open the way to more dealerships offering this service to the public.
I hope that, in spite of the mid week date, that some of you can break away from your busy lives and help us show the press that we are a group of people trying to make a difference in the world. The more exposure we get, the more people will want them, buy them, and therefore provide an economic basis for more stations.
If you're traveling on the 14 freeway through the Antelope Valley, don't forget to stop in and say hello!
Address and Phone are posted in my GX groups in Yahoo groups> Civicgxtalk, and Civicgxngv. Stop in and say "Hi." Curtis Martin Alt Fuels Mgr Robertson's Palmdale Honda
Curtis I congradulate you on the station. It's very rare these days that we see a public CNG station open. Hoepfully other Honda dealers across the country follow your need. I also thank you for promotin clean air and CNG use. One question though which I'm sure is on everyone's mind. How much per GGE?
The way to measure the PSI of a fill is by watching the analog gauge on the side of the pump. Digital pumps don't have them. If you leave your car hooked up until pressure equalizes (i.e. all gas movement has ended and everything is at a dead stand-still), the PSI indicated on the gauge will be the pressure in your tank. Sometimes a fast-fill station will have lower pressure than usual because it has had a lot of traffic and has not had time to recover.
The temperature of the fuel is raised as it goes into the tank (simply by virtue of the turbulence established as it rushes into your tank). More heat, less fill. The same is true of the fast-fill holding tanks at your favorite station. If they have been repeatedly depleted, they won’t have quite the compression they might otherwise deliver.
Regarding manuals for the Honda GX. I found out who Honda’s OE publisher is. You can find everything they print www.helminc.com I am not sure if they will allow non-dealers to order (but I have been told they will). Products include the full factory service manuals for the GX, traditional owners manuals (and GX supplement), there is even a five CD set of Honda training material specific to the GX. Don’t know what is on them, but it sounds interesting. They do ALL of Honda's manuals.
Today I talked to a guy in Tulsa who has developed a vehicle-to-vehicle CNG refueling hose. Unfortunately, it won’t work unless one of the vehicles using the hose is set up with proper isolation and venting valves to relieve pressure inside the hose after it has been used. Not a cheap solution, but far cheaper than building a stand-alone spare gas tank. A cool idea compliments of Tom at Tulsa Gas Technologies. That said, most of us would be better off with AAA Plus for towing.
Apparently, Mercedes-Benz has a dedicated CNG car for European distribution with a five-gallon “limp home” gas tank on board. Now that IS a fine idea.
Thanks Adea. You are correct. Up until 2000 the GX only had one filter. You are supposed to drain it every 10k miles or so and replace it every 30k miles.
The procedure for draining requires shutting off the fuel supply by turning off the emergency shut off valve behind the driver's side rear tire. Let the car run until it stalls out. Remove the plastic liner and use an allen wrench to take out the drain plug. Let it leak and then put it all back together.
I tried to do mine today, but I need to figure out how to remove the fasteners holding the plastic protective cover in place without damaging them.
They have the little hex screw in the middle, but they don't seem to unscrew. Can any of you help?
Good luck on the opening of your new cng station. I called up there last December looking for a shoreline mist GX. I had to go elsewhere because you did not have one, but you guys were well informed and helpful. We now have 2 GX's. What great cars. We are using Phill. If I were not going out of town, I would make the drive up there (from Santa Monica) next week.
I had my first fill on my '98 GX at a Pinnacle Station in Santa Clara and got 4300psi with 4.2GGE. Price as $2.27. The fuel gauge was indicating about 1/3 at that time. I read that the tank is designed to handle 8,100 psi but the fill pressure can be as high as 25% higher than rated pressure (3,600 psi). After the fill, the gauge went well past the Full mark. Does anyone know what the pressure relief valve for the tank is? Should I be worried?
The gauge on my '99 goes past full on 3600psi. (PG&E is just a tad over $2, and Trillium was under $2 at last fillup. But they all sure beat $3.50+ for gasoline.)
If the guage is showing 4300psi on a 3600 psi nozzle, it is prob. broken. The tank has a rupture disk for overpressure and a fusable plug for overtemperature. The plug will blow out at approx 250 deg. f. and release all the gas in about a minute. The fittings and lines will take 6000 psi no prob. Not the tank. This is nothing to play games with ! The 2 Full lines on the gauge are 3,000 and 3600 for the second one. Approx.
wishboneash wrote: Does anyone know what the pressure relief valve for the tank is? Should I be worried? I used to regularly fill my tank at 4500 psi (even though it was a 3600 nozzle...nothing wrong with the gauge) and the most it would ever take close to empty was 6.5 gge. You don't need to worry about the tank...lol. They can take much more pressure than 4500. There was a movie about these tanks and one of the things I remember was that the pressure relief valve will not blow until close to 8000 psi. They put it in a 1700 degree fire and it didn't blow the valve until it reached almost 8000 psi. Also, they can take a 100 mph head on crash without losing any of its integrity. They are a heck of a lot safer than gasoline or propane! Oh, and when I had my Toyota Celica on cng/h2, a world-renowned hydrogen expert told me that I could use the same tank for 5000 psi hydrogen without any problems...you just have to change the fill nozzle. adea
"WHERE DID U HAVE YOUR EXTRA TANK INSTALLED? AND HOW MUCH DID U SPEND. PLS REPLY. THANKS.."
I had it done in Mesa, Az at ALT FUEL SYSTEMS,INC. by Darrel Essary (www.altfuelsys.net). I had the larger tank installed in the backseat(over 500 mile range now) for just over $1,050 + tax, and that included a $250 wood-carpeted shelf cover. He also will install an extra 5gge tank in the trunk for $750 + tax. adea
Hi all, need some advice here. i have a 2003 gx which just hitted 55k miles last week. two days ago, i decided to have the valves adjusted for the first time since the manual recommends adjusting them every 30k. the problem started yesterday on the way home from work. there's a strange vibrations or shakings when i accelerate the car under 30mph, and sometimes during idling WHILE THE CAR IS IN GEAR (no problem during idling while in park or neutral and rev up engine in park/neutral). the vibrations/shakings are more noticeable while a/c is on. and no shakings/vibrations felt above 30mph. so my questions are: could this be the cvt or engine mount problems since it happens only when it is in gear? could this related to the valve adjustment i had done? if i decide to take it to a honda dealer(in LA or OC area), which dealer is more experienced on the GX and who should i talk to(adviser or technician)? is there an independent shop that specializes in CNG with CVT transmission in the san gabriel valley area? thanks for reading.
Scott Robinson Honda in Torrance has sold and serviced far more gx models than any other dealer in the US. They also service all of the company owned cars at Honda's H.Q. in Torrance.
That being said, I do not believe your problem is related to the cng system ,so any Honda dealer or other qualified mechanic should be able to find the trouble. Just keep it away from "Spiffy Lube" , "Sleezy Lube" , "Oil Shop" and all of the other places like that for anything other than an oil change.
The cvt is still used on gasoline hybrid civic models, and was also used on the gasoline HX from 98-2001, and was used on the Insight. All Honda dealers have experience with cvt issues.
thanks for the info lakewood90712. i took the car to my neighborhood mechanic yesterday and he told me that the problem is caused by the ignition coils... so i am purchasing the parts online(saves me about $60 compares to dealer) and change them myself once they get here... hopefully that will solve the problem. thanks again.
I'm finishing up my carpool lane commuting job and preparing to sell my '02 GX. It's white, has 90k miles, received a new CVT about 10k miles ago (from Honda) due to surging, and is generally in good condition cosmetically. It has factory options not normally seen on a GX (honda option rims, spoiler, etc.). I also have a Phill that I could include in the sale.
Any idea what this car would be worth? I am having no luck figuring it out using normal sites like KBB.
I think a fair way to fix a price would be to compare what CNG motors has with a similar Gasoline model (the LX 4 door automatic trans). CNGmotors.com is waiting to get a 2002 with 39000 miles. They are asking $12000. KBB.com has the retail price for a similar modal at $13,435. Party to party (private non dealer) at about $11,520 in Excellent condition. I would say that CNGMotors is not adding much of a premium for the GX over the LX. The LX price with the wheels, spoiler, and 90k miles in EXCELLENT condition is about $9,250. Good is about $8500, Fair is about $7500. pick your price and add what you will for the phill.
No premium over the LX? That surprises me... I figured there would be given the relative scarcity, carpool stickers (I'm in SoCal), and general green-factor of the GX. Hmmm. Thanks for the advice - very much appreciated. Maybe I'll see if I can get $10k with the Phill (also given its got a new CVT).
Hours? Not sure... I bought it new from Fuelmaker approx 2 years ago. Assuming 6 hours a day x 5 days week x 50 weeks/year, seems like 3000 hours give or take.
broart wrote: "Up until 2000 the GX only had one filter." "They have the little hex screw in the middle, but they don't seem to unscrew. Can any of you help?"
First, I think you meant up until and INCLUDING 2000. ('98-'00) Second, those are "clips" that you have to pry off with a special tool (it goes around it similar to the claw on a hammer). Then I'm sure you saw the screws also holding it on. I changed mine after 118K miles getting the manual supplement from helminc.com. Since I had used very clean fuel up to that point (99.9% pure methane/hydrogen) it wasn't really that dirty. The filter cost $36 from Honda and $25 from AutoZone, but I went with Honda on the advice of the AutoZone salesperson. The plug is tightened to 20# and the canister 30#. Hope this helps. adea
Thanks for the note adea. I pulled the clips, drained the filter. While the filter drain was open, I momentarily cracked the shut-off on the tank to clear any crud in the system. (Not sure that was an incredibly wise idea, but it made sense at the time.) In any case, there was no real improvement.
Took the car back to the dealer (Garff in SLC). They messed with it for a while and claimed bad injectors. Wanted me to spend $560 each. I told them that DCH Honda in Temecula will sell them to me for $200 less each(internet price). But instead of doing that I mailed the set of to Five0Motorsport.com. These guys know injectors. They've done a fair amount of GX injectors. They cleaned them up using their ultrasonic process, flow tested them and reported back that only one was dead. The rest were fine. Total cost $144. Ordered one from DCH. Hopefully this solves the problem. It has been a little frustrating.
Got the injectors cleaned up, re-installed them and the car fired right up. It seems to be operating properly now. FWIW, I am told that injector problems are quite common on the GX Civics. They get gummed up (perhaps as a result of the heat associated with operating at high pressure?) and as the flow fails, performance suffers. If you observe misfires showing up on the diagnostic computer, you might want to pull the injectors and have them cleaned up. Fiveomotorsport.com did mine. I mailed them in. Quick service. Good guys.
A word of warning. According to the service manager at Garff Honda in Salt Lake (the only GX rated dealer in Utah), "we've tried this and seen the fix fail." But the guy in Tulsa that told me about fiveO swears by them. Uses them all the time. My guess is that it depends on who does the work. FiveO specializes in injectors. It is all they do. They’ve been in business a long time. Something tells me they would not be if they constantly got complaints that the “fix failed.”
I want to buy another GX or two. Anyone know of any 1999 or 2000 GXs for sale?
You solved your injector problem for a lot less than I did with my '00 GX.
I just had 2 injectors #1 and #2 replaced 2 weeks ago at 95k miles with Cerritos Honda. #3 injector was bad at 45k miles, #4 turned bad at 70k. Last 2 was covered by emission warranty. This time it is not in warranty and Honda dealer wanted a total of $1700 for two injectors. I complained to American Honda that my injectors dies every year. Honda said they found no recall or TSB on my injectors. Luckily Honda finally agree to help me with part of the total repair cost. The injector which costs $600 retail (ouch!), now costs $400 each. I got away with 2 new injectors and 2 new injector covers and a smaller but sizable bill.
I did my maintenance and replaced the CNG filter but still unable to prevent injectors from dying.
If any of you had this problem, please complain to American Honda. If there are enough incidents they might issue a TSB or recall.
Call Honda customer relations (800) 999-1009
Maybe next time I would rebuild them instead like you did.
1998 gx with 52k on craigslist Los angeles last week , did not look at it, it was for sale by a used car dealer in san gabrial ca.(Just east of Los angeles) and he was using it for his personal car until sold.
Then today I looked at a 1999 with 67k at a used dealer in Tujunga ca (north Los angeles ). Car was from texas , no plates. It ran ok ,but had that " Been worked on" look. Bottom of engine had antifreeze all over. I think it has head gasket problems. The a/c was also not working. This car is currently on e bay . be careful.
My take on the injectors. The 01 and later have a spin on secondary filter ,and I have never seen any posts on 01 and later injector failures, but the cost to change it at the specified 10k interval is very high. Part is $87 on the internet and $125-$149 at a honda parts counter. It looks like an oil filter with a heavy shell.
It might be protecting the injectors, but over the life of the car, the cost will add up to more than a new set of injectors. Looks like a case of pay me now , or pay me later, but you will pay!
Hey Honda : Cut the price of the filter and us owners will buy more often and you will still make money!
I did have a 1998 GX where the customer developed a #3 injector failure. As for the filter, I would base it on the quality of NG going into your car. If it's pipeline quality, what you get at home it could do with more infrequent intervals. If pumping from a NG well, then definately change it often. Some stations are also bad with allowing compressor oil into the NG supply, with those stations its going to be frequent intervals aswell. I hate to say it but Clean Energy is not know for that but thats why you pay 50 cents more per gallon than the other stations. Trillium here is Phoenix is known for that, in fact the airport super shuttle vans will no longer use those stations.
06 and later GX use fuel injectors that cost $120 instead of $500 on the pre-06 models. Fuel injector is covered under emission warranty. The newer GX has 15yr/150k miles emission warranty.
I saw that '99 on ebay you were talking about. I bought my car from the same dealer back in August. I never got my plates, so I called/e-mailed repeatedly and finally they found the paperwork. They told me they needed me to smog it because it was over 90 days, and they would reimburse me. Well after repeated e-mails and phone calls I never got my money for the smog. Initially I was happy with the deal, but I would not buy another car from them.
I just want to make everyone aware since there are not many of us CNG dealers out there, that the title read dealer in Tujunga and not dealer in Phoenix AZ :0)
I've got a 2000 GX for sale in Utah. I won't post a link to the ad as it seems to be against the board rules, so if you want to know more about it send me an email at derka7[at]gmail.com
By the way, I'm new here, but you guys are full of a lot of great info. Thanks.
I know this isn't an issue for most of us with GX's, but my 2006 GX is coming up on tires and I've found a guy with 16" wheels/tires from a 2006 Civic EX that will end up costing me what I'd pay for the tires alone.
I wanted to see if anyone could give me input as to whether or not these wheels would fit the 2006 GX?
What are the full specs on the tire/wheel sizes of the two vehicles?
For example, my 1991 Dodge came with 195/70-14 tires, but an alternate size listed on the door sticker was 205/60-15 (which of course required new 15 inch wheels). These two tires have the same outside diameter so the speedometer and odometer would read the same.
195/70-14 OD in inches = (195 mm)(1 in/25.4mm)(0.7)(2) + 14 = 24.74 in
205/60-15 OD in inches = (205)(1/25.4)(0.6)(2) + 15 = 24.69 in
The 205 tires are of course 10 mm wider, but the wheel well could accomodate this. It was an officially recognized alternative tire. You would have to check with a Honda dealer to see if the tires from the EX will work on your GX.
i'm 99.999% sure you'll be fine. the civics are all essentially the same core cars. any differences are components that are put onto the same scaffold ... aka. all wheels should fit on all versions, all engines would fit in all versions, all seats, transmissions, etc etc.
clearly, once they've slapped in some components, then others no longer make sense (such as gasoline delivery system for a GX) ... but wheels/tires aren't an issue. they would only potentially be an issue if you were getting them from a previous generation Civic or other vehicle ... then those specs are essential to know.
Thread title suggests this is the right place for this question...
Anybody have recommendations for mechanics (Honda dealer or otherwise) with good knowledge about both CNG and CVT in the CA bay area? Saw that somebody was posting bay area fuel prices on the pricing thread, so figured there must be a few other bay area GX owners. Shops to avoid would be great too, if you feel comfortable posting that. Thanks!
Great to hear that you are satisfied. If the wheel sizes are the same as 2007, then the outside diameter of the two tires are different by 0.10 inch, which is negligible as far as the speedometer and odometer readings.
I assume that your new tire/wheels are 205/55-16 89H on 16 x 6.5 inch alloy wheels. The nominal unloaded OD of these is tires is 24.88 inches.
And I assume that the old ones are 195/65-15 89H on 15 x 6 inch steel wheels. The nominal unloaded OD of these is 24.98 inches.
So the new tires are 0.41 % smaller in diameter which is insignificant as far as speedometer and odometer reading, but the larger width and lower profile should give a significantly improved handling, not to mention appearance. Narrow tires on steel wheels are substandard nowadays.
This change could possibly produce a decrease in fuel economy, which might also be negligible, or it might be as much as a 3 or 4 % decrease. Let us know if you find a difference. Of course, you could reverse this difference by driving even a few mph slower on the hwy.
The original tire/wheel combo was probably picked to favor fuel economy and lower price over handling because the GX is mainly sold as a fleet vehicle and a green vehicle. The original tires would have less aerodynamic drag (narrower profile seen from front) and lower rolling resistance due to their being 65 series and maybe the tire model was one of the low rolling resistance models.
What tires/wheels did the owner of the EX change to? What is the maximum inflation pressure of your old and new tires? What pressure do you plan to keep the new tires at? What is the make and model of the old and the new tires? What are you going to do with the old wheels?
I heard Stevens Creek Honda services GX's. I know they have CNG certified mechanics. I think they service San Jose city vehicles. I've also read that there service department isn't the greatest either, but I think they are the only dealership in the south bay with CNG certified mechanics. You could also try Capitol Honda in San Jose. I myself never like dealerships and I try to stay away from them as much as possible. Just my two cents. Anthony
OK, so from a good 3600psi overnight fill to bone-dry tank, how many miles can I get out of my 2007 GX? I am thinking 225 miles is about the limit? Anyone have some real-life experiences? Thanks!
Comments
P.S. Who is supplying 4500psig ? I know some of the cascade filling systems have a 5,000 psi tank to top off , but it is suposed to be limited to 3800 psi delivery pressure.
At 4500 psi ,the rupture disk on the honda factory tank is real close to that. It would be a bad day at the office it it blows out!!!
Cheers.
Apparently EGR valves have become quite complex since the last time I bought one for $12 and fit it to the top of my '66 Mustang. But it set me back in my seat. (Circulating exhaust gas costs what? And why, if they burn so clean, does anyone worry about a GX have one of these at all? But alas, mine was not to question why. Mine was but to pay or die.)
Any of you experienced similar EGR problems? The car recently started hesitating and power loss going up hills is clearly evident (probably due to miss-firing). Tech says that if the EGR is bad, the computer gets bogus info from its blown brain, maps the fuel incorrectly and misfires result.
Any insight from you guys?
While talking to him (and he was a font of wisdom, a very nice guy) he explained that the 1999 GX only has one fuel filter. You shut off the gas, run the car till it stalls, then access the filter by pulling down the protective cover and open the bottom of it (the filter) with an Allen-wrench to drain off any excess condensation every 7500 to 10000 miles. Let is drip out, button it up, and you are good to go.
He explained that later model GX's (2001 forward he thought) have two fuel filters.
Cordially, -Art
adea
adea
Usually that pump gives me right around 3600-3700psi, but once I filled in Diamond Bar (SCAQMD) and the Techs were tweaking the system, took 3 tries to fill, and got 4,000psi. I was concerned, but they said it was fine.
I have gone 193 miles, 23 with light on, and had 500psi left in tank, took 5.5gge.
J
adea
I love it that I dont have to visit gas stations anymore!
Free fuel will be dispenced to any CNG vehicle that attends and there will be give away items to commemorate the event. In attendance will be: SoCal Gas, NGV America, Gas Equipment Systems Inc, AQMD, Clean Energy, numerous NGV owners, Honda Corporate Alt Fuels Division, and more. We will have Los Angeles and local Press there to interview owners, so we hope to see you there.
I've been working on this project for almost a year and a half and I'm really excited to bring this station to the public. Robertson's Honda is opening new frontiers and making news around the world. This will open the way to more dealerships offering this service to the public.
I hope that, in spite of the mid week date, that some of you can break away from your busy lives and help us show the press that we are a group of people trying to make a difference in the world. The more exposure we get, the more people will want them, buy them, and therefore provide an economic basis for more stations.
If you're traveling on the 14 freeway through the Antelope Valley, don't forget to stop in and say hello!
Address and Phone are posted in my GX groups in Yahoo groups> Civicgxtalk, and Civicgxngv. Stop in and say "Hi."
Curtis Martin
Alt Fuels Mgr
Robertson's Palmdale Honda
Murphy
CNGMotors
The temperature of the fuel is raised as it goes into the tank (simply by virtue of the turbulence established as it rushes into your tank). More heat, less fill. The same is true of the fast-fill holding tanks at your favorite station. If they have been repeatedly depleted, they won’t have quite the compression they might otherwise deliver.
Regarding manuals for the Honda GX. I found out who Honda’s OE publisher is. You can find everything they print www.helminc.com I am not sure if they will allow non-dealers to order (but I have been told they will). Products include the full factory service manuals for the GX, traditional owners manuals (and GX supplement), there is even a five CD set of Honda training material specific to the GX. Don’t know what is on them, but it sounds interesting. They do ALL of Honda's manuals.
Today I talked to a guy in Tulsa who has developed a vehicle-to-vehicle CNG refueling hose. Unfortunately, it won’t work unless one of the vehicles using the hose is set up with proper isolation and venting valves to relieve pressure inside the hose after it has been used. Not a cheap solution, but far cheaper than building a stand-alone spare gas tank. A cool idea compliments of Tom at Tulsa Gas Technologies. That said, most of us would be better off with AAA Plus for towing.
Apparently, Mercedes-Benz has a dedicated CNG car for European distribution with a five-gallon “limp home” gas tank on board. Now that IS a fine idea.
The procedure for draining requires shutting off the fuel supply by turning off the emergency shut off valve behind the driver's side rear tire. Let the car run until it stalls out. Remove the plastic liner and use an allen wrench to take out the drain plug. Let it leak and then put it all back together.
I tried to do mine today, but I need to figure out how to remove the fasteners holding the plastic protective cover in place without damaging them.
They have the little hex screw in the middle, but they don't seem to unscrew. Can any of you help?
Good luck on the opening of your new cng station. I called up there last December looking for a shoreline mist GX. I had to go elsewhere because you did not have one, but you guys were well informed and helpful. We now have 2 GX's. What great cars. We are using Phill. If I were not going out of town, I would make the drive up there (from Santa Monica) next week.
Scott
The plug will blow out at approx 250 deg. f. and release all the gas in about a minute. The fittings and lines will take 6000 psi no prob. Not the tank. This is nothing to play games with !
The 2 Full lines on the gauge are 3,000 and 3600 for the second one. Approx.
I used to regularly fill my tank at 4500 psi (even though it was a 3600 nozzle...nothing wrong with the gauge) and the most it would ever take close to empty was 6.5 gge. You don't need to worry about the tank...lol. They can take much more pressure than 4500. There was a movie about these tanks and one of the things I remember was that the pressure relief valve will not blow until close to 8000 psi. They put it in a 1700 degree fire and it didn't blow the valve until it reached almost 8000 psi. Also, they can take a 100 mph head on crash without losing any of its integrity. They are a heck of a lot safer than gasoline or propane! Oh, and when I had my Toyota Celica on cng/h2, a world-renowned hydrogen expert told me that I could use the same tank for 5000 psi hydrogen without any problems...you just have to change the fill nozzle.
adea
I had it done in Mesa, Az at ALT FUEL SYSTEMS,INC. by Darrel Essary (www.altfuelsys.net). I had the larger tank installed in the backseat(over 500 mile range now) for just over $1,050 + tax, and that included a $250 wood-carpeted shelf cover. He also will install an extra 5gge tank in the trunk for $750 + tax.
adea
need some advice here. i have a 2003 gx which just hitted 55k miles last week. two days ago, i decided to have the valves adjusted for the first time since the manual recommends adjusting them every 30k. the problem started yesterday on the way home from work. there's a strange vibrations or shakings when i accelerate the car under 30mph, and sometimes during idling WHILE THE CAR IS IN GEAR (no problem during idling while in park or neutral and rev up engine in park/neutral). the vibrations/shakings are more noticeable while a/c is on. and no shakings/vibrations felt above 30mph. so my questions are: could this be the cvt or engine mount problems since it happens only when it is in gear? could this related to the valve adjustment i had done? if i decide to take it to a honda dealer(in LA or OC area), which dealer is more experienced on the GX and who should i talk to(adviser or technician)? is there an independent shop that specializes in CNG with CVT transmission in the san gabriel valley area? thanks for reading.
That being said, I do not believe your problem is related to the cng system ,so any Honda dealer or other qualified mechanic should be able to find the trouble. Just keep it away from "Spiffy Lube" , "Sleezy Lube" , "Oil Shop" and all of the other places like that for anything other than an oil change.
The cvt is still used on gasoline hybrid civic models, and was also used on the gasoline HX from 98-2001, and was used on the Insight. All Honda dealers have experience with cvt issues.
Any idea what this car would be worth? I am having no luck figuring it out using normal sites like KBB.
"They have the little hex screw in the middle, but they don't seem to unscrew. Can any of you help?"
First, I think you meant up until and INCLUDING 2000. ('98-'00) Second, those are "clips" that you have to pry off with a special tool (it goes around it similar to the claw on a hammer). Then I'm sure you saw the screws also holding it on. I changed mine after 118K miles getting the manual supplement from helminc.com. Since I had used very clean fuel up to that point (99.9% pure methane/hydrogen) it wasn't really that dirty. The filter cost $36 from Honda and $25 from AutoZone, but I went with Honda on the advice of the AutoZone salesperson. The plug is tightened to 20# and the canister 30#. Hope this helps.
adea
Took the car back to the dealer (Garff in SLC). They messed with it for a while and claimed bad injectors. Wanted me to spend $560 each. I told them that DCH Honda in Temecula will sell them to me for $200 less each(internet price). But instead of doing that I mailed the set of to Five0Motorsport.com. These guys know injectors. They've done a fair amount of GX injectors. They cleaned them up using their ultrasonic process, flow tested them and reported back that only one was dead. The rest were fine. Total cost $144. Ordered one from DCH. Hopefully this solves the problem. It has been a little frustrating.
Murphy
CNGMotors
A word of warning. According to the service manager at Garff Honda in Salt Lake (the only GX rated dealer in Utah), "we've tried this and seen the fix fail." But the guy in Tulsa that told me about fiveO swears by them. Uses them all the time. My guess is that it depends on who does the work. FiveO specializes in injectors. It is all they do. They’ve been in business a long time. Something tells me they would not be if they constantly got complaints that the “fix failed.”
I want to buy another GX or two. Anyone know of any 1999 or 2000 GXs for sale?
I just had 2 injectors #1 and #2 replaced 2 weeks ago at 95k miles with Cerritos Honda. #3 injector was bad at 45k miles, #4 turned bad at 70k. Last 2 was covered by emission warranty. This time it is not in warranty and Honda dealer wanted a total of $1700 for two injectors. I complained to American Honda that my injectors dies every year. Honda said they found no recall or TSB on my injectors. Luckily Honda finally agree to help me with part of the total repair cost. The injector which costs $600 retail (ouch!), now costs $400 each. I got away with 2 new injectors and 2 new injector covers and a smaller but sizable bill.
I did my maintenance and replaced the CNG filter but still unable to prevent injectors from dying.
If any of you had this problem, please complain to American Honda. If there are enough incidents they might issue a TSB or recall.
Call Honda customer relations (800) 999-1009
Maybe next time I would rebuild them instead like you did.
Then today I looked at a 1999 with 67k at a used dealer in Tujunga ca (north Los angeles ). Car was from texas , no plates. It ran ok ,but had that " Been worked on" look. Bottom of engine had antifreeze all over. I think it has head gasket problems. The a/c was also not working.
This car is currently on e bay . be careful.
My take on the injectors. The 01 and later have a spin on secondary filter ,and I have never seen any posts on 01 and later injector failures, but the cost to change it at the specified 10k interval is very high. Part is $87 on the internet and $125-$149 at a honda parts counter. It looks like an oil filter with a heavy shell.
It might be protecting the injectors, but over the life of the car, the cost will add up to more than a new set of injectors.
Looks like a case of pay me now , or pay me later, but you will pay!
Hey Honda : Cut the price of the filter and us owners will buy more often and you will still make money!
Murphy
I never got my plates, so I called/e-mailed repeatedly and finally they found the paperwork.
They told me they needed me to smog it because it was over 90 days, and they would reimburse me.
Well after repeated e-mails and phone calls I never got my money for the smog.
Initially I was happy with the deal, but I would not buy another car from them.
Murphy
By the way, I'm new here, but you guys are full of a lot of great info. Thanks.
I wanted to see if anyone could give me input as to whether or not these wheels would fit the 2006 GX?
Thanks in advance,
-Eddie
For example, my 1991 Dodge came with 195/70-14 tires, but an alternate size listed on the door sticker was 205/60-15 (which of course required new 15 inch wheels). These two tires have the same outside diameter so the speedometer and odometer would read the same.
195/70-14 OD in inches = (195 mm)(1 in/25.4mm)(0.7)(2) + 14 = 24.74 in
205/60-15 OD in inches = (205)(1/25.4)(0.6)(2) + 15 = 24.69 in
The 205 tires are of course 10 mm wider, but the wheel well could accomodate this. It was an officially recognized alternative tire. You would have to check with a Honda dealer to see if the tires from the EX will work on your GX.
clearly, once they've slapped in some components, then others no longer make sense (such as gasoline delivery system for a GX) ... but wheels/tires aren't an issue. they would only potentially be an issue if you were getting them from a previous generation Civic or other vehicle ... then those specs are essential to know.
epi
Anybody have recommendations for mechanics (Honda dealer or otherwise) with good knowledge about both CNG and CVT in the CA bay area? Saw that somebody was posting bay area fuel prices on the pricing thread, so figured there must be a few other bay area GX owners. Shops to avoid would be great too, if you feel comfortable posting that. Thanks!
The ride, to my surprise, is actually SOFTER than with the stock 15" tires!
I assume that your new tire/wheels are 205/55-16 89H on 16 x 6.5 inch alloy wheels. The nominal unloaded OD of these is tires is 24.88 inches.
And I assume that the old ones are 195/65-15 89H on 15 x 6 inch steel wheels. The nominal unloaded OD of these is 24.98 inches.
So the new tires are 0.41 % smaller in diameter which is insignificant as far as speedometer and odometer reading, but the larger width and lower profile should give a significantly improved handling, not to mention appearance. Narrow tires on steel wheels are substandard nowadays.
This change could possibly produce a decrease in fuel economy, which might also be negligible, or it might be as much as a 3 or 4 % decrease. Let us know if you find a difference. Of course, you could reverse this difference by driving even a few mph slower on the hwy.
The original tire/wheel combo was probably picked to favor fuel economy and lower price over handling because the GX is mainly sold as a fleet vehicle and a green vehicle. The original tires would have less aerodynamic drag (narrower profile seen from front) and lower rolling resistance due to their being 65 series and maybe the tire model was one of the low rolling resistance models.
What tires/wheels did the owner of the EX change to? What is the maximum inflation pressure of your old and new tires? What pressure do you plan to keep the new tires at? What is the make and model of the old and the new tires? What are you going to do with the old wheels?
Anthony
If you do an overnight fill, I'd guess you could possibly get another 10 miles out of it, but that would reeaaaaaallly be stretching it.