Honda Civic GX

rsivak

Well, that is too bad about Anaheim. It was a good price but a terrible fill. Maybe they are going to upgrade it?

Also, Sand Canyon in the city of Irvine is down from the 9th to the 13th for an "upgrade". I saw additional storage tanks, compressors and driers being installed. Yesterdays price $2.49 Azusa, great fill and $1.97!!

altereco

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I took my Factory Dedicated CNG 1998 f-250 in for the f-250 speed control Switch recall. They told me the truck had a couple of CNG factory recall items as well and that he could take care of while it was in the shop.
He called me back and said he could not do the repairs (Mackenzie Ford) and nobody in ANY ford dealer in Portland could ether.
They gave me a customer service number to call and a web site but all I get is the run around and no answers to the e-mails about how they are going to fix my truck.
The recalls were only the fill valve and a fuel rail hose that has a wear problem that I fixed myself. I could to the fill valve myself as well but want ford to buy it for me....
What a hassle to be green....
The fuel in my town (Hillsboro Or) is $2.18 and holding.
There is Just one station in the Portland metropolis.

mansoors

I have just bought a 2006 GX and am new to the forum, being introduced to it by a fellow GX owner with whome I stared up a conversation at the Long Beach filling station.
Could somebody clarify for me if I am correct in thinking that there is a $2000 AQMD rebate AND a $1000 Tax rebate, or am I wrong.
Secondly, one person posted that you can get a transponder for free travel on the toll roads like the 73. If this is correct, where do I have to go to get it?

crimsntide

Mansoors - Congrats on your NEW purchase. It would be interesting (to me at least) to hear of your thought process on buying a new GX and how you were treated. Have you owned one before? How do you like it so far etc. etc.

As far as the rebates, this is what I know to be true. The only rebate available now through the SCAQMD is for you to LEASE a PHILL. You would need to contact your Honda dealer for this. The information I received was that the 4 year lease would cost me $39.99 a month. There is a optional service plan for an additional $9.99 which would not cover the rebuild price at the end of the PHILL'S calculated life. The system still needed to be installed and that cost is anywhere from $500 to $1600 (purchased or leased). I tried to get in on the rebate which would have been $2000 applied to my purchase price of $3600 by the AQMD which meant a final price of$1600 (plus installation). It is my understanding that the rebates were only for the FIRST 100 units sold. (BTW - Thanks SCAQMD) I am now trying to find out if this program will be available again, but no one at the SCAQMD seems to know who I should talk to.
I don't know about the tax rebate, but there is some information on this that I have read from the I.R.S. Do a google search and look for information from the I.R.S (.gov?) for this information. I had a hard time understanding the tax break, but that's just me... You may want to print it out and save for tax time also...
I called the Toll Roads office for BOTH the 91 and 241/73. Their response was that there were NO INCENTIVES (reduced rates/free transponder). I am reading that people are driving in the 3+ lane on the 91 Toll Road for a REDUCED toll during peak hours. In speaking with Customer Service, they said nothing is in place for CNG vehicles to have a discount. The only ones that do get a discount are EV's (Electric Vehicles) Ironic... If someone has other information - PLEASE post it up!

ngv123

By installing Phill in your home, you qualify for a $1,000 Tax Credit. I have attached a link to Fuelmaker's website which highlights incentives available for Phill and Civic GX. I hope this helps.

http://www.myphill.com/incentives.htm

lakewood90712

It was a pleasure meeting you at the long beach station. Glad you found the forum.

rogerbohl

For the straight skinny, check out Instructions for IRS Form 8910, available at www.irs.gov. Note in the instruction for line 3 that the amount of the credit was not available when the form was printed. The credit is a personal credit, which goes right to the bottom tax line.

markf57

I know this is a little off base, but does anyone in this group trade natural gas futures to offset increases in Natural gas prices for there Civic's?

Thanks,

Mark

markf57

When something seems to good to be true, it usually is. But I can't figure out what I'm missing. How can I afford not to buy a Civic GX.

Here are the details. I live in Colorado and Colorado is offer an 85% tax credit on the difference between a conventional vehicle and an alternate fuel vehicle. Or 100% tax credit if the new purchase replaces a vehicle 10 years or older (which I have) and sold to a junkyard or sold out of state. Colorado will also give a credit for 35% of the cost of a Phill unit.In addition, there is a $4000 federal credit and a $1000 credit for a Phill unit. My cost to pump CNG using a Phill is around $.79 GGE right now.

How can I afford not to do it? Am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Mark

ckjgac

My husband has been hounding me about getting rid of our 2002 Trailblazer and purchasing a Civic GX. I am trying to be open minded, but me, like you, seems that it must be too good to be true or all of America would be driving one of these. Please let me know if you get some answers on this!

nostrom0

The GX is cheaper to operate, cleaner for the environment, and when combined with a Phill unit is more convenient than a standard gasoline vehicle.
However, when using the public refueling infrastructure, it requires advance planning on where to refuel.
I drive a 2005 GX and I've never been stranded. I've found Southern California to have an abundant amount of refueling stations. But you have to make use of the guidebook to locate them. That's the only downside, but it's made moot by the installation of the Phill unit.

rogerbohl

We've had our (used) GX for a couple of months. Overall, we're pleased, but we had a $1,000 bill to replace the filling receptacle ($400+ for the part) and we still have a little seepage from somewhere. While our legal obligations are not entirely clear, it is recommended that you get an inspection (included in my $1000 bill) every 3 years, and a new tank every 15 years.

Finding a convenient CNG station in the SF area has not been an issue, but occasionally we have to go a little out of our normal driving routes to get to one. We find that we fill up more frequently (after 100-150) miles, so that we never find ourselves having to make a trip just to get fuel. We tend to fuel the car like a private plane: fill it up when it's convenient; don't wait for the tank to get low.

Many stations have defective receipt printers, and PG&E gives you a bill only at the end of the month, so its a bit of a nuisance if you want to be sure no errors are made, but except for a few pennies, all credit charges have been what we expected.

If you plan to use the car outside CA, check the websites for locations of fueling stations, BEFORE buying.

The CNG tank uses a lot of trunk space, so you can't plan to take 4 people AND a lot of luggage.

Another downside, it's difficult not to smirk when a fillup costs less than $10, or when you sail, alone, through the carpool lanes.

PS: At the Bay Bridge, with the correct FasTrak transponder, it appears that there is no way for the transponder to be read and charged if you (perfectly legally) use the right-hand, bus/carpool lane.

scottsfoca

This board has been very informative, and I check it every day I leased a GX in Phoenix for four years, and loved it. As a matter of fact, I had to turn it in early, because I was putting too many miles on it. It was very easy, because I worked a block from the downtown fueling station.

Now that I live in downtown San Francisco, I am considering purchasing a 2006. Currently, I am using public transportation and a Zip Car when I need it. Environmentally, I feel good about this. However, a car sure would be nice again. The parking fee in my highrise ($275/month) is my major hesitation.

Part of the decision will be based on the tax credits available. I knew about the $4K from the feds. In posting #670, ngv123 mentioned a State of CA credit of $4K. I am assuming that ngv123 actually was referring to the Federal tax credit. It not, with a $8K total credit, I would certainly buy one as soon as possible.

Concerning the Bay Bridge toll, rogerbohl in posting #671 mentioned that the FasTrak in the right-hand lane would not be read. Are carpools and NGV allowed in that right-hand lane on the northside of the toll plaza? I thought that it was posted for buses only. Just wondering.

Thanks everyone for your ideas. Scott

scottsfoca

I know that there are fueling stations in the Palm Springs area. It is 247 miles from Indio to Phoenix. Does anyone know of a way to make it without possibly having to push the car the last few miles?

From the listing of stations, my drive from San Francisco to Palm Springs shouldn't be a problem, if I stay away from the coast. Does anyone have any suggestions for this leg of the trip? Thanks, Scott

musicmann

To ckjgac and markf57. It seems that all three of us are in the same boat: considering buying a 2006 Honda Civic GX and a PHILL and trying to see whether or not it is cost-effective. I live in southern California within the area served by South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD). Southern California Gas Company (SoCal Gas) provides the natural gas and Southern California Edison the electricity to my home. I know nothing about the state of Colorado incentives, so I will make no comment about them other than some of that sounds too good to be true, so be sure to read all the information carefully first. I'm new to posting on this forum. I believe all of this to be true, but would welcome the corrections of others. After reading a lot, test-driving a 2006 Honda Civic GX, and talking with Fuelmaker, here is my list of things to consider.
Pros:
1. Natural gas is cleaner burning than virtually any other fossil fuel, including gasoline.
2. Virtually all of the natural gas that we use is domestically provided - no foreign oil.
3. Natural gas at the pump is less expensive than gasoline.
4. Using PHILL, natural gas can be even less expensive than at the pump, although using PHILL it's tricky trying to figure out exactly how much it costs for a gasoline gallon equivalent (gge).
5. After getting the appropriate stickers from the DMV, a person can drive their natural gas vehicle in the car pool lane in California with only the driver in the car.
6. Certain cities allow a natural gas vehicle to be parked at metered parking for free.
7. A federal tax credit of $4000 is available for purchasing a natural gas vehicle.
8. The SCAQMD is offering a $2000 rebate toward the lease of a PHILL through American Honda. This would not be available in Colorado.
9. Fueling with PHILL can actually fill the vehicle's tank to capacity, whereas fast fill pumps often don't.
10. Fueling with PHILL can provide the added convenience of fueling at home.

Cons:
1. The 2006 Honda Civic GX has an MSRP of nearly $7000 more than the 2006 Honda Civic LX with automatic transmission.
2. The combined EPA fuel economy of the 2006 Civic GX is 32 miles per gge compared to 34 miles per gallon for the regular 2006 Civic.
3. The horse power and torque of the 2006 Civic GX is slightly less than for the regular Civic.
4. The capacity of the fuel tank is only 8 gge, which means the range of the car per tank is less than a regular Civic.
5. Most fast fill pumps cannot fill the tank to its 8 gge capacity.
6. Even though the capacity of the tank is only 8 gge, the tank is huge. It takes most of the trunk. However, without seeing them side-by-side, it seems that the 2006 model has a little more useable trunk space than the 2005 model.
7. There are substantially fewer compressed natural gas fueling stations than regular gasoline stations. Some of them require setting up an account before using them. This combined with the shorter range of the vehicle requires some advanced planning to avoid running out of fuel.
8. PHILL fills at a slow rate of 0.42 gge per hour. It would take 19 hours to fill a completely empty tank (although you will probably never have a completely empty tank.
9. PHILL will automatically shut down after 6000 hours of service. This will then require a service by Fuelmaker or disposal of the unit. Using a fill rate of 0.42 gge per hour and the combined EPA fuel economy rate of 32 miles per gge, PHILL will provide about 80,000 miles worth of fuel from these 6000 hours of service. Natural gas has an additive to it that makes it smell (so we can detect a leak). The PHILL has a part that removes this additive. This part is a hazardous material and will require special handling when disposed. Since PHILL is new, Fuelmaker has not yet worked out the details of the work that will be necessary, its cost at 6000 hours, or how to dispose of the hazardous material.

Now, let's look at some cost comparisons. These are the numbers that are applicable to my situation. You can substitute your own information where appropriate. If I buy a 2006 Honda Civic GX, but don't get a PHILL, it will cost about $7000 more for this car than a comparable Honda Civic LX. After, subtracting the $4000 federal tax credit, it will cost $3000 more for a GX than an LX. Eventually, this $3000 will be saved in fuel costs. Using $2.00 for a gge of compressed natural gas at a station and the EPA combined fuel economy rate of 32 miles per gge for the GX, the cost of fuel is $0.0625 per mile. Using $3.00 for a gallon of regular unleaded gasoline and the EPA combined fuel economy rate of 34 miles per gallon for the LX, the cost of fuel is $0.0882 per mile. Thus, using compressed natural gas fueling stations, a Honda Civic GX costs about $0.0257 less per mile in fuel costs than a Civic LX. At this rate of savings, I could recover the $3000 that I paid extra for the GX in about 117,000 miles. Since my cost for a GX is $3000 more than for an LX, I could start realizing total savings from the lower fuel costs after about 117,000 miles.

If I buy a 2006 Honda Civic GX and lease a PHILL from American Honda, it will cost $3000 more for the car after factoring in the $4000 tax credit, $1600 plus interest for the PHILL after subtracting the $2000 SCAQMD rebate, and about $1400 to install PHILL. This totals to $6000 that it would cost me more than an LX for a GX, PHILL, and installation. Sorry markf57, but the way I read it, the federal tax deduction for installing PHILL expired on December 31, 2005. Now comes the difficulty of calculating the cost per gge using PHILL. SoCal Gas offers a rate of about $0.769 per therm for homes with refueling stations. My city adds a 6% utilities tax to bring the cost to $0.815 per therm. Using a conversion rate of 1.2 therms = 1 gge, the cost for natural gas using PHILL is $0.978 per gge. For electricity, Southern California Edison just adjusted their rates. They use a tiered rate system, the more electricity I use, the higher cost per kilowatt-hour (kwh). In the summer, using the air conditioner, I am already reaching the highest tier and using PHILL would consume even more electricity. The highest tier rate, including taxes is about $0.38 per kwh. PHILL uses an average of 800 watts (or 0.8 kilowatts). At a fill rate of 0.42 gge per hour, it takes 2.38 hours to fill one gge. 2.38 hours at 0.8 kilowatts is 1.904 kwh of electricity to fill one gge. At $0.38 per kwh, that calculates to $0.724 for the electricity to fill one gge. Thus, the total cost of natural gas and electricity using PHILL is $1.702 per gge. Using $1.702 for a gge of compressed natural gas from PHILL and the EPA combined fuel economy rate of 32 miles per gge for the GX, the cost of fuel is $0.0532 per mile. Compared to the cost of $0.0882 per mile for a Civic LX from above, the GX and PHILL costs about $0.035 less per mile in fuel costs than the LX. At this rat

musicmann

It looks like I hit the maximum size of a message that can be posted. I'll repost the last two paragraphs here.

If I buy a 2006 Honda Civic GX and lease a PHILL from American Honda, it will cost $3000 more for the car after factoring in the $4000 tax credit, $1600 plus interest for the PHILL after subtracting the $2000 SCAQMD rebate, and about $1400 to install PHILL. This totals to $6000 that it would cost me more than an LX for a GX, PHILL, and installation. Sorry markf57, but the way I read it, the federal tax deduction for installing PHILL expired on December 31, 2005. Now comes the difficulty of calculating the cost per gge using PHILL. SoCal Gas offers a rate of about $0.769 per therm for homes with refueling stations. My city adds a 6% utilities tax to bring the cost to $0.815 per therm. Using a conversion rate of 1.2 therms = 1 gge, the cost for natural gas using PHILL is $0.978 per gge. For electricity, Southern California Edison just adjusted their rates. They use a tiered rate system, the more electricity I use, the higher cost per kilowatt-hour (kwh). In the summer, using the air conditioner, I am already reaching the highest tier and using PHILL would consume even more electricity. The highest tier rate, including taxes is about $0.38 per kwh. PHILL uses an average of 800 watts (or 0.8 kilowatts). At a fill rate of 0.42 gge per hour, it takes 2.38 hours to fill one gge. 2.38 hours at 0.8 kilowatts is 1.904 kwh of electricity to fill one gge. At $0.38 per kwh, that calculates to $0.724 for the electricity to fill one gge. Thus, the total cost of natural gas and electricity using PHILL is $1.702 per gge. Using $1.702 for a gge of compressed natural gas from PHILL and the EPA combined fuel economy rate of 32 miles per gge for the GX, the cost of fuel is $0.0532 per mile. Compared to the cost of $0.0882 per mile for a Civic LX from above, the GX and PHILL costs about $0.035 less per mile in fuel costs than the LX. At this rate of savings, I could recover the extra $6000 that I paid for the GX and PHILL by driving the GX about 171,000 miles. This would take more than 12,000 hours of fueling with PHILL and it is unclear what the additional costs will be for PHILL after the first 6000 hours.

I hope that you find this information helpful. I realize that your numbers may be different. Please help me with any corrections to the above information. Thanks.

ngv123

It is a $4,000 Federal Tax Credit. Thank you for clearing that up.

rst

as previously posted I have had a 2005 (10,000 mi in 10 mos) and I now have a 2006. I just wanted an alternative energy vehicle. I would by a new electric one as well, if it were built by a major manufacturer. I figure with Edison elec. and SoCal gas I am paying $1.72 per gge. These are wonderful cars, but I don't see how anybody can justify purchasing one on saving money. The figures do not make sense. However, if you want a great reliable alternate energy vehicle, solo car pool access and free parking, you can not go wrong. I just can't tell you how good it feels to hook-up at night and drive off in the morning and be able to pass all of the gas stations. I would not hesitate to purchase another one, if I had the need. Also, I am pretty certain A J at fuelmaker told me the Phill machine was good for 12k hrs. Am I wrong?

musicmann

To rst. In message #630, thatdeonguy says that he has a PHILL unit and that the display will top out at 5999 hours. I have talked to A J at Fuelmaker, but not about this issue. I did talk to someone else at Fuelmaker earlier (unfortunately I didn't get his name) and he also told me that it will stop at 6000 hours.

nostrom0

I believe you are mistaken. Peter Bolton from Fuelmaker came to my house to switch out a fan in the Phill, and told me that the unit is set to shutdown and be serviced after 6000 hours.

moore101

I wish we could get a straight anwser on what the End of Life costs are on a Phill unit. Can they be rebuilt and how much? Cost of disposal? The Phill has been in development for something like 5 years, you think Fuelmaker would have at least a good idea of what will happen after 6000 hours.

thatdeonguy

Don't forget you will also pay less for the natural gas that your home uses. I am still amazed that my monthly gas bills are less than $100.00 :shades:

lakewood90712

Very wise to stay away from the coast. If the station in san luis obispo goes down, you will prob. be stuck. I am speaking from bitter experience ! Good station's in fresno and bakersfield. Make sure you have the correct cards. Get a AAA or other roadside card with extended towing coverage just in case. Some tow co. charge up to $10/mile !

lakewood90712

You might want to look at maintenance costs. Don't know about the 06, but the 01-05 maintenance schedule calls for both low pressure and high pressure filter changes quite frequently. each one of these cost about $175.00 with labor.
Some dealers will not even sell the filters to a retail customer. You better go to the service dept. and inquire about this. Most owners do not change the filters, but you risk voiding the warranty on the gas system and fuel injectors. By the way , the fuel injectors for a 99 gx are about $800.00 each ! as some owners have found the hard way.
I think newer model injector problems are rare. Just my $.02 worth of advise.

jetboatjohnny

I was thinking of going to Phoenix also, there is a station in Blythe, but only open during the week.
Here's a link to the info.
http://www.cleancarmaps.com/home/fuelsite.php?id=0000001209
J

rst

what is the price of cng in the bay area?

jetboatjohnny

I have been calculating the mileage on my '99 and have realized that my trip meter miles dont quite match the odometer miles. Last night my Trip meter read 105.4 and my odometer went 109 miles. I did the math on the rest of my fillups and it is off too.
Anyone else have that happen?
Currently averaging about 36mpg. 90% highway at 70mph.
J

epnfrn

has anyone run across any other forums on the civic gx?

just curious.
thanks,
epi

jetboatjohnny

There's one on YAHOO
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/civicgxngv/

thomasgibson

What speakers did you use and where did you find them? I have been looking everywere to install them and I can't find a place?

nostrom0

You don't need special speakers. Just get some 5", 8 Ohm speakers and put them below the door handles in the rear doors. Any car audio shop can install them.

rogerbohl

Since I bought my '99, 2000 miles ago, I've been running a careful log, and have seen no discrepencies. If your car has an electronic odometer, I suspect problem is in the odometer -- unrelated to CNG features.

jetboatjohnny

Thanks, Yeah, I think the tripmeter is ok. Did you get your '99 from the guys up in Tujunga? City of LA car like mine?
They said they had sold over 30 of them.
I have put about 2500 miles on mine in just over 5 weeks.
I have been averaging about 34-38 mpg on my 140 mile commute (round trip).
J

rogerbohl

I bought my '99 locally from an individual owner, who I think said he had gotten it from OR or WA. Only 35,000 miles and very clean, but I'm having trouble running down a tiny leak.

octolaeveryday

Hi - I'm intent on buying a 2000 gx to get access to carpool lane. Have a 100 mile commute from OC to Santa Monica. I'm not aware of the 'guys in Tujunga' Do you have their contact details?....know if they've still got any? Did you get a good deal? Huge thanks!! - you can e-mail me at gregspittle@hotmail.com if you prefer.

jetboatjohnny

I sent the info to you.
Right now there are 4 GXs on E-Bay.
Where in OC?
Does anyone know if the Anaheim (SoCalGas) Station has opened back up?
I went by there a few weeks ago and it was out of service.
Thanks
J

lakewood90712

As of 9pm today , it is still down. :sick:

stevedebi

"Have a 100 mile commute from OC to Santa Monica."

Woah, that is pretty far for a CNG car. You would be filling up every day. Plus, if you hit traffic you might run out of natural gas in the car.

jetboatjohnny

I commute 140 miles, and hit lots of traffic jams, and haven't even come close to running out of gas. There are quite a few stations right off the 405, I would not worry a bit.
Yes you will have to fill up daily, but with all the time and money you will save, you will enjoy paying about 5-6$ each fillup. It usually costs me about 7.50 each round trip.

rst

there are several stations along the way including the Stewart street station (freeway close) in Santa Monica. I don't think you would have a problem. Stewart street has converted (CleanEnergy) you now get a full fill. You used to get 3/4 fill. Was $2.44 yesterday.

jaxs1

I will soon start commuting about 180 mile round trip 5 days a week. The is would require daily refueling.
There is some doubt that Phil can be installed in my house due to way the garage is set up in relation to the closest gas connection. It would require a long gas run and the car would probably be garaged less than 10 hours a night (probably not long enough to refill the tank after driving 180 miles.). Plus it would add another $5K in costs to the $25K car. There is a high probability I would skip getting Phil and instead fill up daily or even twice daily at a public station.
Driving 180 miles a day plus running doing personal driving on the weekend, I would average nearly 1000 miles per week.
That means the car would also need to be serviced at the dealer every 10 weeks or so and I hear the maintenance costs on the Civic GX are high.
Does this car make any sense financially for high mileage?

rogerbohl

As one economist replied, when asked how was his wife, he said, "Compared with what?" It seems to me that if a CNG car makes any sense, the greater the usage, the greater the relative benefit.

The CNG-specific parts are inordinately and outrageously expensive, if and when needed. See the list and discounted prices on Majestic Honda's website for the three CNG parts groups. But the fuel costs will be lower, and the basic engine maintenance costs should be lower (burns cleaner) than a Honda Civic. And you cannot beat Honda for reliability.

A very high mileage, smaller car might be better, however.

Have you considered moving? Or do you like living 15 hours of your week in a car.

jaxs1

Compared to a Civic LX or EX.
Not going to move because I only plan to stay at that location 2 to 3 years at the most and it isn't worth giving up the house I have for that and I don't think I want deal with he hassles of renting the house out and moving back in later.

I have a feeling it won't be cost effective or livable for long commutes since Phill is so expensive and too slow to refill a tank after an 180 mile drive and refilling twice a day at NG stations will be very inconvenient.
Maybe if I had a much shorter commute that allowed Phill to refill the tank within 8 hours and my gas connection was better located, it would make more sense.
I was hoping that driving high mileage would accelerate the savings and make the GX cost effective within the 2 to 3 years I'd have it.
I also just thought of resale and the fact that there is a limited market of people who would want this car used when I'd be trying to sell it in 2008 or 2009 when diesels would be widely available.

jim314

Clearly you should choose a Civic LX or EX over the GX.

nostrom0

Why don't you buy a used GX? There are a couple on eBay right now. This one is less than $8k http://tinyurl.com/jou6w
You could also buy a used FM4 for around $5k, which would refill the tank from empty in 3-4 hours.
The GX is very cheap to operate, so the more you drive, the faster it pays off.
I own a 2005 GX.

rogerbohl

Getting a used GX is a great suggestion. Further suggestion, get it checked out for leaks by a CNG conversion installer, BEFORE you buy. Just the fill fitting is around $400, and though it is made by Parker Hanifin, they will only sell it to, and you can only buy it from Honda. Majestic Honda has on-line discounted parts, if you need any parts.
And it is subject to physical wear!

rogerbohl

Try Craigslist, as well.

lakewood90712

In your situation , on a commute like that , I would not advise a gx. And this is coming from a happy gx owner of 4 years , and cng vehicle owner for 6 years and 120,000 miles of cng driving. If you need carpool lane access, find a used Hy-bryd that already has stickers.(The sticker limit for new Hy-brids is used up !).If you don't need carpool access, a gasoline civic, would be a better choice.
Just my 2 cents worth.

bank1avp

A FMQ2 will suit you better than a PHILL. FMQ2 will pump twice as fast. Plenty of these used on the market for about $3500 same as a PHILL. I drive 150 daily myself in my bi-fuel truck, use my FMQ2 at night and I haven't been to a gasoline station in 2 years.

You mentioned every 10 weeks for service. For What? Other than routine fluid changes, I say if it ain't broke to mess with it. Not to mention the GX with sythetic oil in it should last you well over 10k miles, not a chemical engineer by any means, but with as clean as CNG burns only makes sense.

If you believe range may be an issue, and it may since a GX will go bone dry shortly after 200 miles depending on how you are driving you can always install an extra tank. I have done this in the past on my GX and for my customers. Adds another 3 GGE to the GX.

I've been in the car business for 14 years. Remember regardless of what car you buy there is an accelerate rate all vehicles depreciate within the first 3 years of it's life. I've never bought a new vehicle my entire life and I'm in the car business. After three years the depreciation rate slows substantially and continues year after year.

A GX has about a $5500 premium over a LX or EX when new. But say 3-4 years old the difference may only be $1500.

Then theres always the question how much your time is worth sitting in traffic. Here in AZ no matter what freeway the HOV lane access cuts any commute in half.

Between my wife and I we drive 210 per day. We both refuel from home on our Fuelmakers. While gasoline is $2.25 per gallon we would still save $6600 annually on our fuel costs. At $3.00 per gallon we SAVE $10,400. That's SAVINGS over what we would pay in gasoline. I've got a simple calc spread sheet to help you figure this out, anyone is welcome to it

Hope this helps your decision process

Murphy

jetboatjohnny

I would buy a used GX like I did, the depreciation of a new one is going to be more than any other Civic, and likewise you can get a better price on a used GX than a gas or hybrid Civic.
The other issues already mentioned, HOV access saves me a lot of time, and the convenience of filling stations.
Before the recent drop in CNG fuel prices, I would have suggested a hybric Civic, but with fuel well below 2.00$ the GX looks better.
Mine is a 99 and rated 34mpg highway, but I get at least 36mpg, and got 39mpg on a few of my 140 mile commutes, and thats driving 75+mph.