That is a point though hybrids are filtered out by the mpg limit of > 45MPG (Insights, Prius, Civic). Haven't heard specific numbers being registered, any news?
The Maintenance Schedule indicates to check (not remove) the tank every three years or 36,000 miles and to replace the tank after 15 years. The Honda service manual explains what this inspection includes.
In says to inspect for, abrasions, cuts, dents, expansion or transformation, heating, gap between the fuel tank and fuel tank bands, fuel tank band spring length with no pressure inside tank, torque of the fuel tank frame bolts, fuel tank band bolts and nuts.
If your GX is a California car it has a 150,000 15 year warranty on listed emission parts including, fuel tank, fuel receptacle assembly, fuel fill pipe, fuel filter casing, fuel joint assembly. If your GX is a Federal car then the listed emission parts are covered for only 36,000 or three years.
The service manual explains how to remove and reinstall the fuel tank with a warning that the procedure degrades the integrity of the fuel tank. It says "This procedure degrades the integrity of the fuel tank. If you do it, do not reinstall the original fuel tank. Install a new one." page 11-127
I do not understand why removal would damage the fuel tank. How is the dealer removing the tank for inspection and re installing the same tank if it requires replacement? Is this an error in the book?
There are 4.75 million CNG powered vehicles, infact for some countries, the above webpage shows old data. With latest, it may very well be around 5 million.
Hey John or anyone else... I've got the "CVT freeway surge" in my GX. At about 70 mph when you need to accelerate to get in or out of the carpool lane, it surges ahead almost like an automatic transmission shifting. I just had the tranny fluid replaced at the dealer. What where the other symptoms of your CVT going out? Thanks Deon
Oh, can you tell us if the Honda Civic GX was one you could sit in please? That's the one I'd be interest to go see. Or is there more than one GX there?
Last year, a rep at Sierra Honda (in Monrovia) said that the new Civic GX's would be coming out in February. Does anyone know if that is still the correct information?
After speaking to the local dealership to see if they had any news, it seems similar to what you found out. They're not sure of the timetable either. It's either going to be a surprise release in February, or more likely the March-April time frame that you spoke of.
One minor but favorable tidbit was that the 2006 Honda Civic GX will have a 4-speaker sound system instead of the 2-speaker system in the current models.
I am moving to Los Angeles and am deciding whether to purchase a GX or convert a diesel-powered car to biodiesel. I was wondering if any of you were choosing between these two options and why you decided to go with the NGV option?
Some pros/cons that I have thought of are the following.
For the GX:
1. Natural Gas is a cleaner-burning fuel (less harmful emissions) than biodiesel, even in biodiesel's B100 (i.e. pure) form. 2. The GX can be easily philled up at home. 3. The GX can be used in the car pool lane. 4. An (approximately) 3600 tax credit is available for the 2006 GX. 5. A new GX can be purchased in California, but a new diesel car much be purchased out of state, as it is still currently illegal to sell new diesels in CA (and NY).
For a Biodiesel conversion:
1. Because a conversion adds a biodiesel tank to the car rather than replaces the diesel altogether, a biodiesel car can be driven in a larger radius than the GX, which is limited to natural gas fill-up stations (in other words, you can just fill up with regular diesel if no biodiesel available).
2. Biodiesel is a sustainable resource, and while natural gas is more plentiful than oil, it is still a "limited resource".
3. Car-pool lane: I have been unable to find out if you can get HOV access for a biodiesel car-- my inclination is no, because decisions are made on the "model" level, rather than California examining each car individually to see if a biodiesel was properly converted.
Over the past several months, I have read every post in this group forum, and I have not come across anything addresssing the Biodiesel v. Natural gas topic.
Good questions. I think you have to ask yourself what is important. If a free ride in the HOV would be a big plus the CNG car is the way to go. I think depending on where you live the PHILL gets some tax relief. As things stand today biodiesel is pretty much an on your own proposition. You would probably get more bang for your buck with the Civic GX & PHILL in your garage. Just make sure your gas lines will handle the extra load. If you just plan to use the car for commuting a given distance the GX will be good. I would not take off cross country in a CNG car. Too few facilities outside CA. As you have pointed out a diesel car is more flexible on fuel. It will probably be lower maintenance over 150k miles than the GX. There are some hidden costs with CNG tanks and filtering.
Here are some other notes regarding Bio-diesel conversion vs the GX. My apologies if they are repetitive or insignificant.
:confuse: Against the Honda Civic GX: 1. Inconvenience: You lose about 80% of your trunk space. (Or virtually no trunk if you opt for the extra tank.) 2. Approx 10-15% less horsepower than comparable Civics. 3. Extra expenses: Different types of maintenance is required (such as tank inspection, NG filters, pressurized fuel system parts, etc). 4. Inconvenience: You might have to go to a specific Honda dealership / mechanic for some services. 5. Less fun factor: There's no stick shift available. (Oh well, not a major deal for some.) 6. Inconvenience: This is a NG / commuter car. Before taking long trips, be aware that MANY of the NG stations listed are private, and not available to the public. Even some of the public ones may be inaccessable at because its outside of normal operating hours, out-of NG, out of business, out of service, etc. Towing to the nearest operating pumping station becomes the only realistic bail-out option. This leads to: 7. Extra expense: You may be compelled to splurge for AAA-Plus (or higher) membership to get 100+ miles of towing per incident (instead of the seven miles included in the standard AAA membership plan). Fortunately, this gives you the benefit of "Trip Interruption Benefits" & "Vehicle Return Benefits", for what it's worth. 8. Negative curiosity... Ignorant people constantly asking you if such a vehicle is "safe" or might "explode". Bio-Diesel cars seem to evoke positive curiosity from people. (I may be totally off-base on this one.)
:shades: For the Honda Civic GX:
1. Savings: There are rebates/incentives for acquiring a Phill (apart from the vehicle incentive). You can get a "free" 48 month Phill lease from Honda. Alternatively, one can get a 2000-3000 dollar rebate off of a Phill appliance. I'm not sure what funds are available for 2006, but my dealership claims that the incentives for Phill have not changed since 2005. 2. Savings: Home NG Phill-ers pay a flat annual fee for transportation tax instead of paying per gallon. 3. Savings: Because NG is such a clean burning fuel, the engine (and motor-oil) is far less polluted than a gasoline engine. This results in cleaner motor oil, longer oil life, less varnish & sludge, etc. 4. Comfort & performance: Other than the slight power deficit mentioned above, the engine acts as normal and responsive as other Honda gasoline engines. 5. The Civic GX for 2006 now has a "regular" automatic transmission (for those worried about the reliablity of the CVT). 6. By using the fast-fill pumping stations, you are supposedly helping support the infrastructure for Hydrogen fueling stations of the future. 7. Savings: Depending on how your NG utility company regulates your Phill install, you may get a lower rate on your home NG usage. 8. Convenience: Because it's not a direct by-product of crude oil, it is also a "true" alternative fuel. This gives it a much better chance of keeping its single occupancy HOV access. Unless the bio-diesel vehicle can "only" use bio-diesel, it will have a more difficult time qualifying for special HOV lane privileges. 9. Convenience: No heating of the fuel is necessary before starting your engine (as may be required by purer bio-diesel fuel). 10. Better physical health: Less exposure to gasoline/diesel stations means less exposure to aromatics, benzene, carcinogens, etc. That can only be a good thing. New gas station designs are making social interaction a thing of the past anyways (except for solicitors). Anyone in Oregon or New Jersey want to chime in on this one here? 11. No odors associated with bio-diesel. (I'm sorry if I'm totally ignorant here- is there any truth to the talk of smelling like french fries from using this type of fuel?)
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I'm sure there's more. Please help correct and add to both lists!
:surprise: Oops, I just found out that one has only 15 minutes to edit after posting a message.
Anyways, here's another minor savings for a NGV. Certain Southern California cities offer free metered parking, such as Hermosa Beach, Santa Monica, and Los Angeles.
San Jose's policy appears to be that you can park for free only if you buy your NGV from within their city.
Biodiesel Advantages: Higher mpg: 40+ vs. 30 for Civic GX. Also greater range: 400+ miles vs. 200-230 miles per tank. No dependence on oil company. Does not require second tank, depending on fuel. Can run on regular diesel if needed. Can run on straight vegetable oil with auxiliary equipment. biodiesel available for purchase locally (LA area).
Disadvantages: No HOV lane access. Regular diesel more expensive than regular unleaded in Southern CA.
Civic GX Advantages: HOV lane access - time is money. Available replacement parts and service. Network of available filling stations in Southern CA. Incentives for Phill and HGV vehicles-http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/incentives/index.asp?blnBtnHit=true.- Dealer service available locally.
Disadvantages: Lack of trunk space (hasn't gotten better for 2006 model). Maximum four people with Range of 200 -230 miles per fill up. No cross country or even trips to Northern CA. Filling stations vary in price due to lack of competition. Many filling stations don't provide full tank fill up due to condition of equipment, quantity of natural gas available, etc. Quantity and location of fueling stations vary depending what part of Southern CA. you live in and need to go to. Trips require more planning, including alternate plans as fueling stations may be shut down and stations are often in out of the way locations.
If you don't travel much out of Southern CA. or have multiple vehicles, want a great commuter vehicle (with limited carrying capacity), Civic GX is highly recommended.
just an fyi. I went to the garage the other morning and found the Phill was showing only the power light. I tried to use it, but it would not fire up. I checked the diagnostic information, but it would not even self-test. I called the factory and they asked me to repeat the same procedures as written in the manual. No luck. They sent out a tech who confirmed that the software had completely dumped. He re loaded it and it has been working ever since. The good news is that the factory was all over it. They were very concerned about my problem and dealt with it almost overnight. It was great to work with them.
The dealers still have 05's on the lot (as of last week) , and honda is not going to ship 06 models until the 05's are gone. So Deon , you NEED a new 05 don't you ? John.
Yes... buy up all the 2005 models! You won't find these exlusive features in the new 2006 models:
-CVT Continuously Variable Transmission- "...which offers the convenience of an automatic plus the performance of a manual gearbox." Problems? what problems?
2-speaker stereo. Why waste power on 4-speakers when two will do the job? Plus, consider the weight savings.
-Final year of Civic production. Just think. This version has all the kinks and bugs worked out. Perhaps there will be less chance of a "recall" on this model.
-Traditional Tach & Speedo. With the older model, you get traditional duo analog tachometer and speedometer with easy to read white on black lettering. You won't have to bother with that distracting digital speedometer on the 2006 models.
-Tighter turning circle. (needs verification on 2006 specs.) Make U-turns easier with a 34.1 feet turning circle. The new Civic sedans have about a foot wider turning circle at 34.8 - 35.4 feet. This fact along with the shorter length of the 2005 model will make it easier to parallel park as well.
-Possible longer range with 2005 (needs verification). The new Civics have a bigger engine, more horsepower, automatic transmission, more weight, longer wheelbase, but the same size NG tank. Well, you do the math.
-More headroom on the 2005: You gain about half-inch more space- 39.8" on the old Civic versus 39.4" on the new model. There's also a bit more passenger cargo room on the older 2005 model.
-Save money. The new models are projected to cost a few hundred dollars more. And since dealers are more likely to discount last years models, you may end up saving quite a bit.
Recently the fuel receptacle on my 2005 GX was leaking fuel. It only happened twice and stops after short period of time. Each time it leaked after removing the Phill hose.
It did not leak when the dealer tech checked it but they are going to replace the receptacle on the car.
This has happened on a 00 crown vic I had and on my 01 gx. It always was at ONE particular station. In my case I think it was ice forming during the re-fuel. (Water droplets were visible in the o-ring area after the leak subsided in each case).Pipeline gas has a LOT of moisture in it , and at times , even a properly working dryer may not remove enough. Could also be foreign debris particles or a defective receptacle on the car. Please post when you find out on your car.
P.S. Socal gas is down to 2.14 the Anaheim base, but full pressure is rare. I don't even try the Downey location. Their spiffy new compressor and double capacity storage is down 75 % of the time. :mad: John
Once in a blue moon my '02 Crown Vic does the same. I generally use the pumps in Long Beach - $1.77 as we speak. As far as I can remember it has only happened at one pump in Long Beach - it's always the same pump, but then I am a creature of habit and always use the same pump, even if I have to wait.
I usually just reconnect the hose and cross my fingers - so far it has worked.
If you want good pressure and cheap CNG - Long Beach, they have 8 pumps that are in excellent order 99% of the time, there is a porta-potty and a soda machine and some of the pumps are under an awning - nice on a hot day.
I explained the problem to my friendly Honda dealer in Monrovia California and the technician replaced the fuel receptacle on Thursday. So far no more problems.
Ford has 2 different receptacles. the older style is prone to leaking It has a single check valve. The newer receptacle has double check valves,both are built into the receptacle assembly and are rebuild able. I haven't taken apart a honda receptacle yet so I can't speak on those. dose any one know if Honda has second check valve besides the one in the receptacle? The 2 reasons for a receptacle to leak are dirt getting into the receptacle causing it not to seat or damaging the Internal o-ring. The other is to much moisture in the gas. This causes icing in the receptacle causing the check valve to not seat. If you are having these problems you should notify the station operators and let them know about it. for Long Beach it's 562 431 2126 for Clean Energy it's 562 439 2804.
Some GX owners have been parking their car so that the fill hose must be stretched across the back of the car. This is a very poor choice because the hose should not be stretched out that far. Hose replacement is expensive and you may not see the hose in the mirror if you attempt to drive away connected!
Contractors should be directed to install the PHILL unit close to the fuel receptacle.
I always attach a bright orange clamp to my steering wheel when the hose is connected.
Sounds like it's in fact somewhat dangerous to change the trans. fluid. or maybe people change it hoping to avoid the impending disaster.
As for the '2 speaker' problem, I added two 'deck mount' speakers to my Civics (yes, I have two of them) and it improves the sound tremendously. The stereo unit is set-up for 4 speakers. Total cost about $100 each car including installation. Wonder why Honda didn't think of that!
I bought my Civics, one still under the 3/36 factory warranty, for about $12,000 each. You can pay for a lot of repairs (even CVTs) with the difference.
Certain components have a 15 year, 150,000 mile factory warranty. This covered my computer being reprogrammed when the gas gauge died (and it just died again!). The light flashes and the gauge drops to the bottom in about a minute. It's controlled by the computer, so a reboot and reprogram solved it, but only for a couple of months.
The only curiosity I've ever gotten has been 'positive' and 'that's cool' after I explain about the car and especially when I open the fuel door!
Most people, especially those writing newspaper and magazine articles, don't have a clue that the GX exists or that it's NOT a hybrid. Even when Phill came out, they still didn't quite 'get it.'
With the new station in Barstow trips to Las Vegas are now practical IF you have a Haycock Petroleum card to buy gas for the return trip. Someone told me he did it from the Victorville station before Barstow existed in a GX. I signed up for AAAPlus just in case!
And there are a number of stations along 99 which would make a trip to the Bay Area or Sacramento possible, just not on the 5. Also a number of stations along 101 but I haven't checked that out carefully.
On your cross country trip how do you plan to get from Phoenix? Its 230 miles to Indio I don't know the distance to Vagas. I have talk to someone that travels to and from the bay area to So. Cal frequently in a Civic. He said there is something about making arrangements in ether Monterey or Santa Cruz. I can’t remember which. Make sure you have a PG&E card. I would be vary interested in your route.
Toyota handled the speakers by mounting them on the package shelf on the CNG Camrays. I would love to find a low milage on for sale.
As for driving up and down the mountain I have never been to the San Beradino LCNG station. Has anyone, what are there prices like? Depending on your route you could fill at the city of Riverside or city of Ontario. They both take credit card. Both of these station are operated at no profit. Those cities are only trying to cover costs.
I have added a presser gauge to my vehicle. it is easy to do off the stainless steal high presser line. mine is mounted in the trunk but on a lot of the conversions they mount them in the engine compartment . In a 93 dodge vale I ust to drive they had mounted a remote read gauge under the dash.
I have been involved in CNG since 1991. I have never been able to figure out why the press has ALWAYS turned there back on CNG. first with the electric car now the hybrids Lets not forget Ethanol. I was told the advertising budget for GM’s E85 is higher than the hole CNG program for GM. The Dodge Sprinter is made CNg for all markets but North America. Ford, GM, Volvo and Mercedes all have CNG vehicles for the European market. Clean Energy has been trying to work a deal with Volvo to import CNG S class to the US. a few years ago Mazda was testing a CNG hybrid in LA.
On the 101 ,don't trust the ENRG station in san luis obispo , it is often down , even when ENRG states it's up, and you can't make it to salinas from santa barbra in a crown vic without it , and it's too close for comfort in the civic , even if you drive @ 60. I got burned on that one last trip to the bay from LA. :mad: Sorry ENRG ,but it's true. Made the trip along 99 several times in the crown vic and the civic.You need a pg@e card , and fleetstar is a good one to have also.Wonder how full you will get in victorville,barstow or vegas in the heat of summer ?
Am I missing something or did you really mean a Toyota Camry CNG version? Where on the web is there such a Toyota in the US? Possibly a European import version? Or were you referring to an after-market CNG installation on one? I bet others are wondering also!
Toyota made and sold a CNG Camry in the US, they didn't make them for long and they pulled the plug a few years ago. I think the SCAQMD has a few and you do see them at the pumps every once in a while.
I saw a Camry a few months back at the Santa Monica So Cal Gas substation. It was a SCAQMD car. The driver told me she hoped she could buy it when they decided to get rid of it.
Toyota make them for about 3 years. They were doomed from the start. Toyota didn't advertise them and would only sell to fleets. I've only seen one on the used car boards. About a year ago at www.gobestauto.com It had 70,000 miles and the where asking in the high $9,000.
If anyone is interested, there have been several cross country trips done in NGVs. Most common are the buses and school buses which are made somewhere down South and are frequently delivered to the end user out West.
Also back a few years ago a guy from So Cal drove across country and back in a CNG Dodge van. His website makes for interesting reading and he also mentions others that have done similar trips.
I'm new to this board and to posting. Hope this comes out alright! I've been looking a CNG cars for quite awhile. Following them on ebay and all the other CNG sites. We have a Honda Odessey and I'm friendly with the service writer, so I asked him about CNG Honda's. Specifically, I'm looking in ebay for a 98 or 99 in the $6K-8K range with 35-60K miles. His response was don't. He said the parts are very expensive, and the cars need a lot of work. Obviously from this forum, a lot of people feel differently and like their cars. Bottom line: Is there anything I should look for in buying a CNG Honda on ebay w/ 35 to 50K miles. Am I buying into a money pit, or can I get reliable transportation in those years? (98-99)? If the cars are a good deal, are there any specific questions I should ask the sellers, so as to avoid hefty repair bills. Thanks for the help. I really like the idea of CNG, it's just so different and potentially expensive!!!
For the last 4 yrs, I have driven cng cars in so cal, ONLY because of solo carpool lane access , this is slated to expire at the end of '07 unless extended by the legislature.
I am an environmental "Wacko" according to some , but would not go cng just for that reason.
My '00 crown vic was in the shop a lot , and when I got close to warranty expiration , Ford could have cared less about fixing the problems. On the other hand , my '01 civic gx has been very reliable, except for trans. problems , no cng problems at all in 75k miles.
The only bad problems with the 98-00 civic gx reported on this forum is fuel injectors $$$ each and distributor problems. Inquire at the honda dealer about a "Hondacare" factory extended warranty , but it may not be available on an older car, and is expensive.
One last thing to think about. Although not prohibited by building or fire codes , (I'm a city building Inspector). I do NOT park my civic in my attached garage. Reason is, the tank has a self closing pressure relief valve , and a NON self closing fuseable plug that will release all the fuel if it reaches approx. 250 degrees. If the garage started on fire ,from any cause , not just the car, and it was fueled by 500,000 btu of gas or more , very bad things could happen to the house ,occupants, and neighbors.
Do you have a weblink to that information ? , reason I ask is , I got replacement stickers in january (old ones had the printing worn off) and it came with a notice that they are no longer valid on jan 01 , 2008, these are the white sulev stickers. John.
PS www.ngv.org has classifieds for used cng vehicles.
Can someone please do me a favor. Last night the wife called me from work that her GX would not start. It is out of gas from a leak somewhere. I went to a commercial fill knowing that Phill would not work from completely empty. The commercial pump would not fill the tank either. I looked at my connector and then at a connector of a Chevy truck that was there. His had a check ball in the connector. My Honda did not. Can someone look in their connector for me and tell me if they see a check ball or just a cylinder lined by a screen. Thanks and you can email your response directly to me at baken1@cox.net.
Thanks to those that responded. Turns out that it was not a leak. After receiving a reply from a member, I hooked up Phill to the car. Phill showed that the tank was full. Goes to show that Phill does do better than the commercial pumps as the car was drive 22 miles and the commercial pump would not add any fuel to the tank. So the car is at the Dealer now trying to find out why it went dead.
Where have all the CNG cars and trucks gone? I do not see a single vehicle listed for this year. Is CNG going the way of the Electric Vehicle? Not even Honda is showing up for 2006. On the Honda website they are showing the 2005 model only.
Honda does have a 2006 model ,but has not started shipping. As to Ford , I believe they are providing vehicles to conversion companies , but no longer sell as oem option.
Comments
Same size fuel tank 8 gge 3600 psi.
Unfortunately, 06 GX is not yet in production(will not be for a few months). Horsepower ratings will also not be that high.
www.greencarcongress.com/2005/12/honda_producing.html
135 hp does indeed sound too good to be true.
John
In says to inspect for, abrasions, cuts, dents, expansion or transformation, heating, gap between the fuel tank and fuel tank bands, fuel tank band spring length with no pressure inside tank, torque of the fuel tank frame bolts, fuel tank band bolts and nuts.
If your GX is a California car it has a 150,000 15 year warranty on listed emission parts including, fuel tank, fuel receptacle assembly, fuel fill pipe, fuel filter casing, fuel joint assembly. If your GX is a Federal car then the listed emission parts are covered for only 36,000 or three years.
The service manual explains how to remove and reinstall the fuel tank with a warning that the procedure degrades the integrity of the fuel tank. It says "This procedure degrades the integrity of the fuel tank. If you do it, do not reinstall the original fuel tank. Install a new one." page 11-127
I do not understand why removal would damage the fuel tank. How is the dealer removing the tank for inspection and re installing the same tank if it requires replacement? Is this an error in the book?
There are 4.75 million CNG powered vehicles, infact for some countries, the above webpage shows old data.
With latest, it may very well be around 5 million.
CNG vehicles gained a lot in 2005.
I've got the "CVT freeway surge" in my GX.
At about 70 mph when you need to accelerate to get in or out of the carpool lane, it surges ahead almost like an automatic transmission shifting.
I just had the tranny fluid replaced at the dealer.
What where the other symptoms of your CVT going out?
Thanks
Deon
Is it worth going to see the vehicles? Do they let you sit inside? I heard someone say that it was strictly hands-off at the Honda booth this year.
I understand that parking is $10, and each person's ticket is also $10. You can usually find a $2 off coupon at your favorite new car dealership.
http://www.laautoshow.com
Last year, a rep at Sierra Honda (in Monrovia) said that the new Civic GX's would be coming out in February. Does anyone know if that is still the correct information?
Thanks again...
One minor but favorable tidbit was that the 2006 Honda Civic GX will have a 4-speaker sound system instead of the 2-speaker system in the current models.
Some pros/cons that I have thought of are the following.
For the GX:
1. Natural Gas is a cleaner-burning fuel (less harmful emissions) than biodiesel, even in biodiesel's B100 (i.e. pure) form.
2. The GX can be easily philled up at home.
3. The GX can be used in the car pool lane.
4. An (approximately) 3600 tax credit is available for the 2006 GX.
5. A new GX can be purchased in California, but a new diesel car much be purchased out of state, as it is still currently illegal to sell new diesels in CA (and NY).
For a Biodiesel conversion:
1. Because a conversion adds a biodiesel tank to the car rather than replaces the diesel altogether, a biodiesel car can be driven in a larger radius than the GX, which is limited to natural gas fill-up stations (in other words, you can just fill up with regular diesel if no biodiesel available).
2. Biodiesel is a sustainable resource, and while natural gas is more plentiful than oil, it is still a "limited resource".
3. Car-pool lane: I have been unable to find out if you can get HOV access for a biodiesel car-- my inclination is no, because decisions are made on the "model" level, rather than California examining each car individually to see if a biodiesel was properly converted.
Over the past several months, I have read every post in this group forum, and I have not come across anything addresssing the Biodiesel v. Natural gas topic.
My apologies if they are repetitive or insignificant.
:confuse: Against the Honda Civic GX:
1. Inconvenience: You lose about 80% of your trunk space. (Or virtually no trunk if you opt for the extra tank.)
2. Approx 10-15% less horsepower than comparable Civics.
3. Extra expenses: Different types of maintenance is required
(such as tank inspection, NG filters, pressurized fuel system parts, etc).
4. Inconvenience: You might have to go to a specific Honda dealership / mechanic for some services.
5. Less fun factor: There's no stick shift available. (Oh well, not a major deal for some.)
6. Inconvenience: This is a NG / commuter car. Before taking long trips, be aware that MANY of the NG stations listed are private, and not available to the public. Even some of the public ones may be inaccessable at because its outside of normal operating hours, out-of NG, out of business, out of service, etc. Towing to the nearest operating pumping station becomes the only realistic bail-out option. This leads to:
7. Extra expense: You may be compelled to splurge for AAA-Plus (or higher) membership to get 100+ miles of towing per incident (instead of the seven miles included in the standard AAA membership plan). Fortunately, this gives you the benefit of "Trip Interruption Benefits" & "Vehicle Return Benefits", for what it's worth.
8. Negative curiosity... Ignorant people constantly asking you if such a vehicle is "safe" or might "explode". Bio-Diesel cars seem to evoke positive curiosity from people. (I may be totally off-base on this one.)
:shades: For the Honda Civic GX:
1. Savings: There are rebates/incentives for acquiring a Phill (apart from the vehicle incentive). You can get a "free" 48 month Phill lease from Honda. Alternatively, one can get a 2000-3000 dollar rebate off of a Phill appliance. I'm not sure what funds are available for 2006, but my dealership claims that the incentives for Phill have not changed since 2005.
2. Savings: Home NG Phill-ers pay a flat annual fee for transportation tax instead of paying per gallon.
3. Savings: Because NG is such a clean burning fuel, the engine (and motor-oil) is far less polluted than a gasoline engine. This results in cleaner motor oil, longer oil life, less varnish & sludge, etc.
4. Comfort & performance: Other than the slight power deficit mentioned above, the engine acts as normal and responsive as other Honda gasoline engines.
5. The Civic GX for 2006 now has a "regular" automatic transmission (for those worried about the reliablity of the CVT).
6. By using the fast-fill pumping stations, you are supposedly helping support the infrastructure for Hydrogen fueling stations of the future.
7. Savings: Depending on how your NG utility company regulates your Phill install, you may get a lower rate on your home NG usage.
8. Convenience: Because it's not a direct by-product of crude oil, it is also a "true" alternative fuel. This gives it a much better chance of keeping its single occupancy HOV access. Unless the bio-diesel vehicle can "only" use bio-diesel, it will have a more difficult time qualifying for special HOV lane privileges.
9. Convenience: No heating of the fuel is necessary before starting your engine (as may be required by purer bio-diesel fuel).
10. Better physical health: Less exposure to gasoline/diesel stations means less exposure to aromatics, benzene, carcinogens, etc. That can only be a good thing. New gas station designs are making social interaction a thing of the past anyways (except for solicitors). Anyone in Oregon or New Jersey want to chime in on this one here?
11. No odors associated with bio-diesel. (I'm sorry if I'm totally ignorant here- is there any truth to the talk of smelling like french fries from using this type of fuel?)
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I'm sure there's more. Please help correct and add to both lists!
Anyways, here's another minor savings for a NGV. Certain Southern California cities offer free metered parking, such as Hermosa Beach, Santa Monica, and Los Angeles.
San Jose's policy appears to be that you can park for free only if you buy your NGV from within their city.
Advantages: Higher mpg: 40+ vs. 30 for Civic GX.
Also greater range: 400+ miles vs. 200-230 miles per tank.
No dependence on oil company.
Does not require second tank, depending on fuel.
Can run on regular diesel if needed.
Can run on straight vegetable oil with auxiliary equipment.
biodiesel available for purchase locally (LA area).
Disadvantages: No HOV lane access.
Regular diesel more expensive than regular unleaded in Southern CA.
Civic GX
Advantages: HOV lane access - time is money. Available replacement parts and service.
Network of available filling stations in Southern CA. Incentives for Phill and HGV vehicles-http://www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/incentives/index.asp?blnBtnHit=true.-
Dealer service available locally.
Disadvantages: Lack of trunk space (hasn't gotten better for 2006 model).
Maximum four people with
Range of 200 -230 miles per fill up. No cross country or even trips to Northern CA.
Filling stations vary in price due to lack of competition.
Many filling stations don't provide full tank fill up due to condition of equipment, quantity of natural gas available, etc.
Quantity and location of fueling stations vary depending what part of Southern CA. you live in and need to go to.
Trips require more planning, including alternate plans as fueling stations may be shut down and stations are often in out of the way locations.
If you don't travel much out of Southern CA. or have multiple vehicles, want a great commuter vehicle (with limited carrying capacity), Civic GX is highly recommended.
John.
-CVT Continuously Variable Transmission- "...which offers the convenience of an automatic plus the performance of a manual gearbox." Problems? what problems?
2-speaker stereo. Why waste power on 4-speakers when two will do the job? Plus, consider the weight savings.
-Final year of Civic production. Just think. This version has all the kinks and bugs worked out. Perhaps there will be less chance of a "recall" on this model.
-Traditional Tach & Speedo. With the older model, you get traditional duo analog tachometer and speedometer with easy to read white on black lettering. You won't have to bother with that distracting digital speedometer on the 2006 models.
-Tighter turning circle. (needs verification on 2006 specs.) Make U-turns easier with a 34.1 feet turning circle. The new Civic sedans have about a foot wider turning circle at 34.8 - 35.4 feet. This fact along with the shorter length of the 2005 model will make it easier to parallel park as well.
-Possible longer range with 2005 (needs verification). The new Civics have a bigger engine, more horsepower, automatic transmission, more weight, longer wheelbase, but the same size NG tank. Well, you do the math.
-More headroom on the 2005: You gain about half-inch more space- 39.8" on the old Civic versus 39.4" on the new model. There's also a bit more passenger cargo room on the older 2005 model.
-Save money. The new models are projected to cost a few hundred dollars more. And since dealers are more likely to discount last years models, you may end up saving quite a bit.
Well, here you go. I tried. :P
It did not leak when the dealer tech checked it but they are going to replace the receptacle on the car.
Has anyone experienced this problem?
It always was at ONE particular station. In my case I think it was ice forming during the re-fuel. (Water droplets were visible in the o-ring area after the leak subsided in each case).Pipeline gas has a LOT of moisture in it , and at times , even a properly working dryer may not remove enough. Could also be foreign debris particles or a defective receptacle on the car. Please post when you find out on your car.
P.S. Socal gas is down to 2.14 the Anaheim base, but full pressure is rare. I don't even try the Downey location. Their spiffy new compressor and double capacity storage is down 75 % of the time. :mad:
John
I already have a 2005!
That's a 2005 CVT tranny in my 2001 GX.
deon
I usually just reconnect the hose and cross my fingers - so far it has worked.
If you want good pressure and cheap CNG - Long Beach, they have 8 pumps that are in excellent order 99% of the time, there is a porta-potty and a soda machine and some of the pumps are under an awning - nice on a hot day.
I haven't taken apart a honda receptacle yet so I can't speak on those. dose any one know if Honda has second check valve besides the one in the receptacle?
The 2 reasons for a receptacle to leak are dirt getting into the receptacle causing it not to seat or damaging the Internal o-ring. The other is to much moisture in the gas. This causes icing in the receptacle causing the check valve to not seat.
If you are having these problems you should notify the station operators and let them know about it. for Long Beach it's 562 431 2126 for Clean Energy it's 562 439 2804.
Contractors should be directed to install the PHILL unit close to the fuel receptacle.
I always attach a bright orange clamp to my steering wheel when the hose is connected.
As for the '2 speaker' problem, I added two 'deck mount' speakers to my Civics (yes, I have two of them) and it improves the sound tremendously. The stereo unit is set-up for 4 speakers. Total cost about $100 each car including installation. Wonder why Honda didn't think of that!
I bought my Civics, one still under the 3/36 factory warranty, for about $12,000 each. You can pay for a lot of repairs (even CVTs) with the difference.
Certain components have a 15 year, 150,000 mile factory warranty. This covered my computer being reprogrammed when the gas gauge died (and it just died again!). The light flashes and the gauge drops to the bottom in about a minute. It's controlled by the computer, so a reboot and reprogram solved it, but only for a couple of months.
Most people, especially those writing newspaper and magazine articles, don't have a clue that the GX exists or that it's NOT a hybrid. Even when Phill came out, they still didn't quite 'get it.'
With the new station in Barstow trips to Las Vegas are now practical IF you have a Haycock Petroleum card to buy gas for the return trip. Someone told me he did it from the Victorville station before Barstow existed in a GX. I signed up for AAAPlus just in case!
And there are a number of stations along 99 which would make a trip to the Bay Area or Sacramento possible, just not on the 5. Also a number of stations along 101 but I haven't checked that out carefully.
Toyota handled the speakers by mounting them on the package shelf on the CNG Camrays. I would love to find a low milage on for sale.
As for driving up and down the mountain I have never been to the San Beradino LCNG station. Has anyone, what are there prices like? Depending on your route you could fill at the city of Riverside or city of Ontario. They both take credit card. Both of these station are operated at no profit. Those cities are only trying to cover costs.
I have added a presser gauge to my vehicle. it is easy to do off the stainless steal high presser line. mine is mounted in the trunk but on a lot of the conversions they mount them in the engine compartment . In a 93 dodge vale I ust to drive they had mounted a remote read gauge under the dash.
I have been involved in CNG since 1991. I have never been able to figure out why the press has ALWAYS turned there back on CNG. first with the electric car now the hybrids Lets not forget Ethanol. I was told the advertising budget for GM’s E85 is higher than the hole CNG program for GM. The Dodge Sprinter is made CNg for all markets but North America. Ford, GM, Volvo and Mercedes all have CNG vehicles for the European market. Clean Energy has been trying to work a deal with Volvo to import CNG S class to the US. a few years ago Mazda was testing a CNG hybrid in LA.
Sorry ENRG ,but it's true.
Made the trip along 99 several times in the crown vic and the civic.You need a pg@e card , and fleetstar is a good one to have also.Wonder how full you will get in victorville,barstow or vegas in the heat of summer ?
Where on the web is there such a Toyota in the US?
Possibly a European import version?
Or were you referring to an after-market CNG installation on one?
I bet others are wondering also!
Also back a few years ago a guy from So Cal drove across country and back in a CNG Dodge van. His website makes for interesting reading and he also mentions others that have done similar trips.
http://www.altfuels.org/cleannbk.html
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm?newsid=2060105.005
The above links to an article previewing the 2006 L.A. Auto Show. They have some nice pics as well.
I've been looking a CNG cars for quite awhile. Following them on ebay and all the other CNG sites. We have a Honda Odessey and I'm friendly with the service writer, so I asked him about CNG Honda's. Specifically, I'm looking in ebay for a 98 or 99 in the $6K-8K range with 35-60K miles. His response was don't. He said the parts are very expensive, and the cars need a lot of work. Obviously from this forum, a lot of people feel differently and like their cars. Bottom line: Is there anything I should look for in buying a CNG Honda on ebay w/ 35 to 50K miles. Am I buying into a money pit, or can I get reliable transportation in those years? (98-99)? If the cars are a good deal, are there any specific questions I should ask the sellers, so as to avoid hefty repair bills.
Thanks for the help. I really like the idea of CNG, it's just so different and potentially expensive!!!
I am an environmental "Wacko" according to some , but would not go cng just for that reason.
My '00 crown vic was in the shop a lot , and when I got close to warranty expiration , Ford could have cared less about fixing the problems.
On the other hand , my '01 civic gx has been very reliable, except for trans. problems , no cng problems at all in 75k miles.
The only bad problems with the 98-00 civic gx reported on this forum is fuel injectors $$$ each and distributor problems. Inquire at the honda dealer about a "Hondacare" factory extended warranty , but it may not be available on an older car, and is expensive.
One last thing to think about. Although not prohibited by building or fire codes , (I'm a city building Inspector). I do NOT park my civic in my attached garage. Reason is, the tank has a self closing pressure relief valve , and a NON self closing fuseable plug that will release all the fuel if it reaches approx. 250 degrees. If the garage started on fire ,from any cause , not just the car, and it was fueled by 500,000 btu of gas or more , very bad things could happen to the house ,occupants, and neighbors.
PS www.ngv.org has classifieds for used cng vehicles.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/mailouts/mso0004/mso0004.pdf
As to Ford , I believe they are providing vehicles to conversion companies , but no longer sell as oem option.