I have a 2005 civic and I could rarely get it above the first "full" mark at any of the Sempra gas stations in the area, even when using the 3600psi pump (I was really unhappy when they raised the price about $.70 over night a while back). I have recently installed a Phill and it goes all the way to the top "full" mark now. Based on my previous fills, I figure Honda is being conservative. In my car I believe I have close to 3 gallons remaining in reserve when the low warning light comes on.
Phill speed: I received the car from my partner Sat. evening at 5pm with the yellow warning light on. She told me it was on for about 15 miles. I started the Phill at 5:30pm and at 7:30am the tank was not full. It was between the top two "full" marks. I drove the car for 10 miles and it took an additional 2 hours or so to fill to the point where Phill shut itself down. I usually fill it at half tank or so and it fills over night with no problem. So far so good.
I had two bids. One was $1,500 and the other was $1,100. They were apples to apples. I have my own crews so I ran a 3/4" gas line and had a dedicated electrical connection provided. So, for $1,100.00 they ordered the device, brought it to my house, uncrated, hung the machine on the wall, connected the gas line, and plugged it in. It took two or three hours. They had come out on a prior trip for the estimate. I understand now that Honda and the scaqmd are sponsoring the Phill for 48 months. I think I may have gone in that direction rather than a purchase. By the way, if you do the math (comparing the price of unleaded), saving $ will take a long time. You will however love the convenience (so far) of getting up in the morning with a full tank of fuel. It is also nice to watch the gas stations go by.
My installation was $1,800.00 for an outdoor installation. They had to run about 40 feet of gas line. I did the electrical work of installing an outdoor waterproof GFI outlet.
I have Phill and am paying right around $1.20 a gge for natural gas. Has anyone else calculated what there cost is? This cost also uses the amount of electricity to run Phill. Would like to know what others are getting. Thanks.
In my area (Santa Monica) Sempra is charging $1.31 per therm (baseline). If my numbers are correct, this converts to $1.59 per gal. (1therm = 1000cf and 1 gal=121.5cf). The electricity is about $.09 per hour. I am guessing about 3 gal is fed into the tank in 8 hours. So, 3gal @1.59 = $4.77 +( electricity at 8hrs x $.09hr) =$.56 = $5.33 divided by 3 gal = $1.77. When I exceed the baseline of each utility (which I am certain to do) the cost will increase by 15 to 20%
By the way, this is for October. September gas worked out to be 1.36 per gal. without electricity factored in. It seems that it will only go higher.
p.s. I'm no math expert so these figures....................
I am in Chandler, Arizona. I made a spreadsheet that does the calculation for me so that I don't have figure it out each month. I have had the Phill since March. It has come out to $1.20 +/- 0.03 each month. According to Fuelmaker, Phill dispenses at 0.42 gal/hr. So the spreadsheet converts therms to gal and then calculates the rest. I am using $0.07 for electric. If you are interested in the spreadsheet, let me know and I can email it to you. Phill has been awesome for us. Interesting to see what others are paying. Flew to San Jose last week and saw the commercial site at the airport was $2.65. A few weeks ago the Southwest Gas station here was $1.87. So here in AZ much cheaper than the $2.70 that gasoline is at. Thanks for the resonse.
2gxowner: Yes, please email the spread sheet to me. stucker@rstrents.com. Thanks. Does your local gas co. give you a break of any kind? Are you required to have a separate meter? You are right, the Phill is great little device. I drove by my old fueling station yesterday and it was at $2.50. As I mentioned before, it went up to that rate from $1.79 over night a while back.
Hey "2gxowner" Would you post your PHILL spreadsheet on the CIVIC GX group on Yahoo groups? http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/civicgxngv/ You need to join yahoo groups if you are not already a yahoo member. There is a folder on the GX group site for "FILES" Just post it there and we all have access. Thanks Again! Deon
I have my Phill mounted to the exterior garage wall and I can just hear it inside my house about 20' away with the windows closed. Factory says 42 48db I think. It sounds like a small pool or spa filter. My neighbors haven't complained....yet
I think it only comes with a 12' hose.
My partner is waiting until '06 for a possible $4,000 credit as opposed to $2,000 this year. I have not checked this myself. Something to do with the recently passed energy program.
In 2006 I understand that you can get a $2,000.00 tax credit (reduction of taxes) for the purchase of the CIVIC GX. The South Coast Air Quality Management District is paying $2,000.00 to FuelMaker but the money is limited. In 2005 you can get a $2,000.00 tax deduction (reduction from taxable income).
I posted the spreadsheet on the yahoo groups site. If anyone else would needs it emailed to them, let me know. Also let me know if I did it incorrectly.
My Phill is in the garage and it can just be heard in my daughters bedroom which is directly above it. To check out my installation, try this link.
The Energy Bill tax credits take effect in january 1, 2006. 80% of the incremental cost of the GX vs. Gasoline up to a maximum of $4,000. So if the difference in price between the gasoline and CNG civic is $3500, you can get a credit for $2800 (80% of 3500).
Well it only took a little over two months from purchase to operational status, but PHILL did its first fill last night. It took from 5pm till after 1:30am just to get a half a tank. I drove almost 50 miles today and the gas gauge is showing the amount I used to get right after filling up at the "clean energy" cng pumps. I was a little worried about how loud PHILL was going to be because it is very close to my daughter's bedroom but it is quieter than our home air conditioner. I will report back my miles per PHILL tank full. I hope it is closer to 200 miles.
Does anyone have advise on selling an NGV car? I recently posted my car through Edmonds but I keep getting inquiries from people who dont know what a Civic Gx is. Does anyone have recommendations. Ive considered selling to a dealer but what should I expect to get for it?
I am sure that someone will correct me if I am wrong, but here are the basic facts. You lose about 10% of your capacity when you use a commercial quick fill - rapid transfer of the CNG causes an increase in the temprature and makes the gas expand, meaning less in the tank.
You will also be affected by the condition of the pump you are using, the time of day and ambient temperature.
PHILL is a slow fill and will give you more gallons in the tank.
I drive an '02 Crown Vic., 3600 psi, with extended tanks and have managed to get over 300 miles out of about 14 gallons - Long Beach to San Diego and back.
The best maintained pumps and currently the cheapest gas is in Long Beach, $2.15 per gge.
An alternate way to "increase" your capacity is to constantly top off even if you don't need to stop, every time you drive by the pump, squeeze an extra gallon or so in.
Not sure what part of the country you are in, but check with Bruce at AFV technologies on Gothard in Huntington Beach, but be prepared for a shock - the tanks aren't cheap, after all they have to be able to hold CNG at 3600 psi.
also try www.generalauction.com. I was at the auction before last and they auctioned off a pick-up truck bed with 10 to 15 new tanks, with good "freshness" dates, that went for $5.00 (yup Five dollars). I could kick my butt for not getting the phone number of the bidder. They had a good number of tanks listed at the last auction as well, but I did not attend it.
congrats to that deonguy for finally getting his gas from Phill.
I just happened to be in Florida last week and paid $2.23 for regular gas. How can cng be 2.50 at Sempra (Socal) gas in Santa Monica??
How can So Cal Gas charge $2.50 per gge? Simple, they do it because they can. I mean where are we going to go, down the street to the local CNG station? They have us by the short and curlies.
So Cal Gas petitioned the PUC to allow them to charge a higher rate for "compression" so as to be more in line with the cost of gasoline. What is the comparison based on? Availability? I think not. Refining costs? Also not. Ah, perhaps they just got jealous of the oil companies ability to bend the consumer over every time they felt like it - that sounds more like it.
For the first time in six years I paid more for my CNG fuel than for gasoline.
Looks like So Cal Gas learned from the oil companies. Well done So Cal Gas!
01 Civic GX , CNG. Great car , Except the CVT trans. 1st. failure at 2500mi. dealer installed new trans, warranty, 2nd failure 62,000, new trans (honda care extended warranty) , 3rd failure 67,000 , yup , another new trans, under warranty . Honda requires service at 60k miles , and I have had the trans serv. at the dealer every 15k. No I don't abuse the car, freeway commute only,still on original tires! This is NOT unusual ! .I have asked other GX CVT owners at the fuel pumps and got sim. stories. Non warranty cost is about $4,500 and guaranteed only 12k / 1 yr. The owner of a local trans shop looked at the ground and shook his head when I said Honda CVT. 30k average life of trans. ,out of warranty at $4,500 , uh, 15 cents per mile for transmission wear and tear cost ??? That's more than fuel + all other maint! The older GX 98-2000 have a 4 speed auto. and no unusual problems. I wish I had a 2000 and not the newer model!
Thanks lakewood90712; Yikes! I just called the credit union and bought an extended warranty for my 2001 gx w/48,000 miles. $641 for 52,000 miles of extended warranty up to 100,000 miles. $250 deductable and yes the CVT is covered. I have really enjoyed driving the CVT transmision, Thankfully no problems yet...
Your Credit Union sales extended warranties because it is very profitable for the Union. If you read the policy very carefully you will discover that the warranty excludes most failures or will only pay for the failed part NOT the total cost of repair which most likely cost much more. From Consumer Union "Consumer Reports' long-standing advice is to pass up this [extended warranty] costly add-on".
The extended warranty may also exclude coverage if you are late for any maintenance indicated in the policy or Honda maintenance book.
I recommend that you save the policy cost and request a refund.
Gasoline Gallon Equivalent is calculated two ways using either mass or energy content
Mass: 1 gge=5.66 lb natural gas Energy Content: 1 gge=114,189BTUs or 1.14 therms
In my case in Los Angeles, I pay $1.26 per therm thus each gge cost $1.43 per gge ($1.26 * 1.14 therms).
You may want to consider the power cost in addition to the fuel cost. My Phill unit pumps .458 gge per hour and the Fuelmaker specs indicate that the unit draws 800W. Each gge would use about 2.18 KWH.
You have the conversion correct with 1.14 therm to 1 gge. I even confirmed it with Fuelmaker. Although they told me that Phill pumps at 0.42 gge per hour. I have a spreadsheet that takes all this into account and calculates the actual cost I am paying. The only thing that is short is that I do not know how much time Phill is in 'drying' mode. Otherwise, it includes the electric cost. The spreadsheet also averages all the gas company costs in that the spreadsheet uses the 'therms' and 'total gas bill' as the inputs. So the monthly service charges, adjustments, etc are all averaged.
I do have a separate gas meter for Phill and one for the rest of the house. The 'CNG Fuel' as the gas company has labeled it, is less expensive than the 'Residential Gas Service' by 0.35 per therm. CNG at .503 and Residential at .856.
If anyone would like a copy of the spreadsheet, email me at baken1@cox.net.
Some of you have me worried on the life of Phill. With me haveing two GX cars, we use it quite a lot. But then after calculating 4000 hour life / 20 hour per week is over 3 years of service. So I have two more years to go. Hopefully by then, CNG will become popular again and the cost be resonable.
SOME of the symptoms of a honda CVT failure are jerky starts , but this CAN be caused by dirty fluid , or incorrect fluid . you MUST use Honda "Z-1" or the newer "CVT-1" fluid.
If it is surging on the freeway , it's a done deal. :sick:
This trans is also used on the discontinued civic gasoline HX automatic, and a version of it on the Hybrid.
All hybrid cars with automatic's use a cvt because it transmits power from 0 rpm , without need for hydraulic pressure. And it has virtually no slippage (when in good condition), more efficient.
An independent honda shop stated that the 4 speed auto from the EX will fit , and is approx. half the cost (using a genuine honda factory rebuilt 4 speed auto)2200 + labor vs. 4000 + labor, but is not sure if the electronics will work , (both EX and GX are v-tec).
The dealer service dept. will not say if it will work or not , only that THEY will not try the retrofit.
American Honda has announced that customers in Southern California’s South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) are now able to purchase a natural gas-powered Civic GX and receive the Phill home refueling appliance at no additional cost for 48 months without any additional commitment at the end of the term.
Living in SoCal, I (had) three reasons for CNG vs. Hybrid.
1) HOV 2) Operation Cost much less than Hybrid 3) Environment
From reading the most recent posts and due to the visionary leadership of our governor, the first two reasons are now defunct. The last reason while "cool", is not sufficient. While I can effect an air of moral superiority over my affluent and liberal friends (value of such not trivialized) with CNG, it is still socially acceptable to have a hybrid and be allowed into all of the reindeer games.
Is there any other reason why I would bother with a CNG instead of a hybrid now? I have a Civic hybrid on order right now, so this is not just a theoretical inquiry.
Uh-oh, I think I have to poke a hole in reason # 3 also.
HC , CO , NOX , and CO2 tailpipe emisions of a cng car vs. non hybrid gasoline model are lower , especially co2 emissions are about 20% lower (fewer carbon atoms in cng vs. gasoline) , but the natural gas production and pipeline business is anything but environmentally benign . And additional energy for compression is icing on the cake (or is it a crock).
When you factor in lower hybrid fuel useage vs. non hybrid cng , the hybrid is lower on co2 , and that is the one emission that is forever.
I believe you found some old information. I called on that last month and they told me the program was dead. After reading your post, I called a dealer today and they told me the program stopped two months ago. They still have 10 '05 gx's in stock and I'll bet a good deal could be made today.
I'm still waiting for my Phill rebate.......,but not holding my breath.
hoa good.... emissions good.... filling at home, best!!
It was 4 weeks ago I believe that the fed has given approval. I have even seen a hybrid with the official HOV sticker. Link below which describes the latest info dated Nov. 9th.
The CIVIC GX is given the highest score. The CIVIC GX is given the AT-PZEV as indicated on ARB's site. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2004sulevpzevlist.htm which includes a 15 year 150,000 mile emission warranty on the major emission control parts. Natural gas burns "clean" from a cold start reducing emissions. That's why you do not smell exhaust when your start a CNG car. The natural gas car will maintain very low emissions over the life of the car thus reducing overall emissions. Most cars emit (HC) evaporative emissions when parked thus contributing to smog but the CIVIC GX has a near-zero evaporative emissions because natural gas is easier to contain.
CO2 emissions are directly related to fuel mileage. The vehicle with the lowest fuel mileage will have the highest CO2 emissions. The best running engine will have a higher level of CO2 (14% 15%). Higher levels of CO2 is an indication of complete combustion.
Dean, I got into a little trouble with the monitor of this site (pf-flyer) so I'm not certain if I can mention the dealer. However, it has my name as one of its names and it is located in the Southbay (Torrance area.)
I could be wrong, but I thought these HOV stickers have been out for a long time. The ngv's are white and the hy's are gold. Maybe later they'll dump the hy's and let us stay. Yea, right.
Oh, I forgot to mention the other plus.....the free parking at the meters in L.A> and Santa Monica. Does anybody know of any other cities with the free parking for ngv's?
Now that CNG is more per gal ($2.39/GGE at the Seal Beach station vs. $2.09/Gal at the local ARCO) I'm shying away from the GX. What is the group's consensus on the long term NCG vs. gasoline price difference?
Do you mean less bening than a super tanker(crude)+hydrocracker emissions+pipeline compression+tanker delivery(station)+evaporative emissions? Perhaps you are correct!
1) HOV 2) Operation Cost much less than Hybrid 3) Environment
From reading the most recent posts and due to the visionary leadership of our governor, the first two reasons are now defunct.
Why defunct? HOV stickers for hybrids will likely be gone by May/June timeframe based on the total allotment that DMV can legally issue (70,000 total) CNG vehicles will continue to get the sticker after since it is not bound by HOV bill.
Comments
Phill speed:
I received the car from my partner Sat. evening at 5pm with the yellow warning light on. She told me it was on for about 15 miles. I started the Phill at 5:30pm and at 7:30am the tank was not full. It was between the top two "full" marks. I drove the car for 10 miles and it took an additional 2 hours or so to fill to the point where Phill shut itself down. I usually fill it at half tank or so and it fills over night with no problem. So far so good.
They had to run about 40 feet of gas line.
I did the electrical work of installing an outdoor waterproof GFI outlet.
By the way, this is for October. September gas worked out to be 1.36 per gal. without electricity factored in. It seems that it will only go higher.
p.s. I'm no math expert so these figures....................
How long of hose does it come with, or how long of hose can you get ?
Are the tax credits better in 2006?
Thanks a lot!
Would you post your PHILL spreadsheet on the CIVIC GX group on Yahoo groups?
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/civicgxngv/
You need to join yahoo groups if you are not already a yahoo member.
There is a folder on the GX group site for "FILES"
Just post it there and we all have access.
Thanks Again!
Deon
I have my Phill mounted to the exterior garage wall and I can just hear it inside my house about 20' away with the windows closed. Factory says 42 48db I think. It sounds like a small pool or spa filter. My neighbors haven't complained....yet
I think it only comes with a 12' hose.
My partner is waiting until '06 for a possible $4,000 credit as opposed to $2,000 this year. I have not checked this myself. Something to do with the recently passed energy program.
But elsewhere around the world, CNG vehicles are surging.
Infact in Brazil, tri-brid vehicles (running on Gasolene, Ethanol & CNG) are coming up
My Phill is in the garage and it can just be heard in my daughters bedroom which is directly above it. To check out my installation, try this link.
http://hondanews.com/CatID1000?mid=2005042237808&mime=JPG
Would you please email the spreadsheet to me at stucker@rstrents.com?
Thanks,
rst
and good luck to thatdeonguy. It sounds like he is having a time of it. I wonder if he had to also pull a permit and get a city inspection as well??
I was a little worried about how loud PHILL was going to be because it is very close to my daughter's bedroom but it is quieter than our home air conditioner.
I will report back my miles per PHILL tank full.
I hope it is closer to 200 miles.
You will also be affected by the condition of the pump you are using, the time of day and ambient temperature.
PHILL is a slow fill and will give you more gallons in the tank.
I drive an '02 Crown Vic., 3600 psi, with extended tanks and have managed to get over 300 miles out of about 14 gallons - Long Beach to San Diego and back.
The best maintained pumps and currently the cheapest gas is in Long Beach, $2.15 per gge.
An alternate way to "increase" your capacity is to constantly top off even if you don't need to stop, every time you drive by the pump, squeeze an extra gallon or so in.
congrats to that deonguy for finally getting his gas from Phill.
I just happened to be in Florida last week and paid $2.23 for regular gas. How can cng be 2.50 at Sempra (Socal) gas in Santa Monica??
So Cal Gas petitioned the PUC to allow them to charge a higher rate for "compression" so as to be more in line with the cost of gasoline. What is the comparison based on? Availability? I think not. Refining costs? Also not. Ah, perhaps they just got jealous of the oil companies ability to bend the consumer over every time they felt like it - that sounds more like it.
For the first time in six years I paid more for my CNG fuel than for gasoline.
Looks like So Cal Gas learned from the oil companies. Well done So Cal Gas!
2nd failure 62,000, new trans (honda care extended warranty) , 3rd failure 67,000 , yup , another new trans, under warranty . Honda requires service at 60k miles , and I have had the trans serv. at the dealer every 15k. No I don't abuse the car, freeway commute only,still on original tires!
This is NOT unusual ! .I have asked other GX CVT owners at the fuel pumps and got sim. stories. Non warranty cost is about $4,500 and guaranteed only 12k / 1 yr. The owner of a local trans shop looked at the ground and shook his head when I said Honda CVT. 30k average life of trans. ,out of warranty at $4,500 , uh, 15 cents per mile for transmission wear and tear cost ??? That's more than fuel + all other maint! The older GX 98-2000 have a 4 speed auto. and no unusual problems. I wish I had a 2000 and not the newer model!
Yikes!
I just called the credit union and bought an extended warranty for my 2001 gx w/48,000 miles. $641 for 52,000 miles of extended warranty up to 100,000 miles. $250 deductable and yes the CVT is covered.
I have really enjoyed driving the CVT transmision, Thankfully no problems yet...
The extended warranty may also exclude coverage if you are late for any maintenance indicated in the policy or Honda maintenance book.
I recommend that you save the policy cost and request a refund.
My CVT has me worried. It makes strange noises and sort of surges when leaving from a stop.
How did your Honda CVT fail? What were the symptoms each time it failed?
A therm is equal to 100,000 BTUs
Gasoline Gallon Equivalent is calculated two ways using either mass or energy content
Mass: 1 gge=5.66 lb natural gas
Energy Content: 1 gge=114,189BTUs or 1.14 therms
In my case in Los Angeles, I pay $1.26 per therm thus each gge cost $1.43 per gge ($1.26 * 1.14 therms).
You may want to consider the power cost in addition to the fuel cost. My Phill unit pumps .458 gge per hour and the Fuelmaker specs indicate that the unit draws 800W. Each gge would use about 2.18 KWH.
I do have a separate gas meter for Phill and one for the rest of the house. The 'CNG Fuel' as the gas company has labeled it, is less expensive than the 'Residential Gas Service' by 0.35 per therm. CNG at .503 and Residential at .856.
If anyone would like a copy of the spreadsheet, email me at baken1@cox.net.
Some of you have me worried on the life of Phill. With me haveing two GX cars, we use it quite a lot. But then after calculating 4000 hour life / 20 hour per week is over 3 years of service. So I have two more years to go. Hopefully by then, CNG will become popular again and the cost be resonable.
If it is surging on the freeway , it's a done deal. :sick:
This trans is also used on the discontinued civic gasoline HX automatic, and a version of it on the Hybrid.
All hybrid cars with automatic's use a cvt because it transmits power from 0 rpm , without need for hydraulic pressure. And it has virtually no slippage (when in good condition), more efficient.
An independent honda shop stated that the 4 speed auto from the EX will fit , and is approx. half the cost (using a genuine honda factory rebuilt 4 speed auto)2200 + labor vs. 4000 + labor, but is not sure if the electronics will work , (both EX and GX are v-tec).
The dealer service dept. will not say if it will work or not , only that THEY will not try the retrofit.
Same size fuel tank 8 gge @ 3600 psi.
It has the new body , doesn't look like a squished jelly bean like the 01-05.
Now to eat some crow. On a prev. post I said all hybrid vehicles use a cvt, not so! The Accord hybrid is a 5 speed auto.
Pass the salt please.
John.
link
American Honda has announced that customers in Southern California’s South Coast Air Quality Management District (SCAQMD) are now able to purchase a natural gas-powered Civic GX and receive the Phill home refueling appliance at no additional cost for 48 months without any additional commitment at the end of the term.
So cal gas ( Anaheim ) $2.23 , as usual , less than 2800 psi at the Anaheim base. :mad:
1) HOV
2) Operation Cost much less than Hybrid
3) Environment
From reading the most recent posts and due to the visionary leadership of our governor, the first two reasons are now defunct. The last reason while "cool", is not sufficient. While I can effect an air of moral superiority over my affluent and liberal friends (value of such not trivialized) with CNG, it is still socially acceptable to have a hybrid and be allowed into all of the reindeer games.
Is there any other reason why I would bother with a CNG instead of a hybrid now? I have a Civic hybrid on order right now, so this is not just a theoretical inquiry.
Jesse
Why do you say that number 1 (HOV) is defunct?
Dean
HC , CO , NOX , and CO2 tailpipe emisions of a cng car vs. non hybrid gasoline model are lower , especially co2 emissions are about 20% lower (fewer carbon atoms in cng vs. gasoline) , but the natural gas production and pipeline business is anything but environmentally benign . And additional energy for compression is icing on the cake (or is it a crock).
When you factor in lower hybrid fuel useage vs. non hybrid cng , the hybrid is lower on co2 , and that is the one emission that is forever.
John
I'm still waiting for my Phill rebate.......,but not holding my breath.
hoa good.... emissions good.... filling at home, best!!
Which dealer has those 10 GX's?
Dean
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
So it is a done deal. Seems like the dealer was somewhat "biased"...
Jesse
The CIVIC GX is given the highest score. The CIVIC GX is given the AT-PZEV as indicated on ARB's site. http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2004sulevpzevlist.htm which includes a 15 year 150,000 mile emission warranty on the major emission control parts. Natural gas burns "clean" from a cold start reducing emissions. That's why you do not smell exhaust when your start a CNG car. The natural gas car will maintain very low emissions over the life of the car thus reducing overall emissions. Most cars emit (HC) evaporative emissions when parked thus contributing to smog but the CIVIC GX has a near-zero evaporative emissions because natural gas is easier to contain.
CO2 emissions are directly related to fuel mileage. The vehicle with the lowest fuel mileage will have the highest CO2 emissions. The best running engine will have a higher level of CO2 (14% 15%). Higher levels of CO2 is an indication of complete combustion.
Scott
Oh, I forgot to mention the other plus.....the free parking at the meters in L.A> and Santa Monica. Does anybody know of any other cities with the free parking for ngv's?
Now that CNG is more per gal ($2.39/GGE at the Seal Beach station vs. $2.09/Gal at the local ARCO) I'm shying away from the GX. What is the group's consensus on the long term NCG vs. gasoline price difference?
Dean
2) Operation Cost much less than Hybrid
3) Environment
From reading the most recent posts and due to the visionary leadership of our governor, the first two reasons are now defunct.
Why defunct? HOV stickers for hybrids will likely be gone by May/June timeframe based on the total allotment that DMV can legally issue (70,000 total) CNG vehicles will continue to get the sticker after since it is not bound by HOV bill.