When I bought my 2001 GX (USED) I went to my local Honda GX dealer and requested a print out of all the warranty work done to my car. A previous owner had taken the car to the dealer at about 10,000 miles complaining of SMELLING GAS. The dealer replaced the refueling receptacle. No more gas smell! The GX Supplemental Service Manual calls for replacing the CNG tank after 15 years of service. I hope I can find a used 2006 GX before I have to replace the tank in my 2001 GX.
I contacted Honda and asked about removing the fuel tank and venting all of the fuel because the service manual states that removing all of the fuel would damage the tank and require replacement. I was told (by someone at Honda Motor Co, not the dealer) that the service manual for the 2005 will be corrected to indicate that the fuel tank on the 2005 can be completely drained,removed and re installed. Apparently there was some concern about some of the earlier designs.
The service manual indicates to do the following for the tank inspection every 36 months. Check for.
1)abrasions 2)cuts 3)dents 4)expansion or transformation 5)heating 6)gap between the fuel tank and the fuel tank bands 7) fuel tank band spring length with no pressure inside tank 8) torque of the fuel tank frame bolts fuel tank band bolts and nuts
Nothing in the 2001-2005 supplement indicates that the tank needs to be removed for inspection. The labor for the above should be less than one hour labor.
I hope the body shops are following the instructions for welding on these cars.
when i was with the honda corp reps the other day they said the "gas" tank was a $7,000.00 item. I did not ask if that was a factor in the development or over the production run. It is clearly an item that they spent a lot of r&d on.
Well, looks like ENRG has taken over. Another price increase, low pressure, and receipt paper empty. Just like the ENRG stations. Wonder when they will install the crappy Sulzer fuel pumps. Maybe T-Boone Pickens will send us all x-mass cards this year. He should with the prices ENRG charges.
My Phill unit is being shipped out tomorrow, I can't wait!!!! According to fuelmaker as of last month there were less than 15 phill units that are available with the $2000 rebate if you live in southern CA.
OH! Is that the $2,000.00 AQMD PHILL rebate that has been "coming soon". I am still waiting after 7 months... Have any other PHILL owners seen their rebate?????
I spoke with a j at fuelmaker recently and he assured me that my rebate was coming. I am pretty certain that they are sensitive to this issue and I believe they also follow this forum. I had made the same complaint about not receiving my rebate in a prior post.
correction...in a prior post I said I own a 2006 and tested the 2007. I meant I own the 2005 and drove the 2006. I am looking to purchase the 2006 and sell mine to one of my employees who wants one. The 2006's are scarce and selling for over invoice at some dealers. When I purchased the 2005 they gave a good discount.
RST: I believe that the AQMD has been assuring Fuelmaker that the rebate money "is in the mail" for quite some time now. Do any PHILL owners have their rebate check????? My frustration is with A.Q.M.D. Everybody at FUELMAKER has always been wonderful to deal with.
P.S. we all kinda wondered how you liked the 2007 GX. since they haven't started making them yet
I am in total agreement with you about Fuelmaker. We have two units at different locations and found the company easy to deal with. With regard to the rebates, I guess they are just stuck in the middle.
I guess in my mind I was driving a 2007 cause it is so much different than the 05. I suggested to the Honda reps that they should really have an upscale option like a better radio, leather, and sun roof. Just a thought.
Does the SCAQMD send a rebate to the Phill owner? I purchased my GX in October 2005 and the Phill unit was leased to me for four years. All payments are $0.00 because SCAQMD sent $2,000.00 to Fuelmaker and Honda paid the balance. The installation cost was a separate issue.
I think the dealers are still offering the same deal.
fbaldwin: I bought my 4 year old 2001 GX off e-bay and my PHILL I purchased directly from Fuelmaker. I paid for PHILL authorized installation too. I think that's why we get the rebate directly. AJ?
The Toyota Matrix (Pontiac Vibe)(which is actually a Corolla drive train) is the vehicle that I have. It is basically a Station Wagon , thats the inducement for staying with Toyota. There are toroidal (donut shaped) tanks that can fit in the spare tire compartment. They hold approx 35 liters of fuel. The Matrix(Corolla) uses a temporary spare so I would need to check if the toroidal tank would fit there. The Dual Fuel ability is what is attractive. Being able to use gasoline when Natural Gas is not available is a strong selling point. I am hoping that someone here knows of conversions for this vehicle. (or I can purchase a kit from Europe). Thanks
Just for reference, the cng tank in the civic gx is 100 liter liquid capacity, but it's cng capacity is 8 gallon gasoline equivalent(gge) @ 3600 psi and 70 deg.f. A 35 liter tank in cng service is about 2.8 (gge) and that is to empty. Useable capacity ? maybe 1.5 gge. Cng is compressed gas, not liquid ! Density per cc. is much lower than a liquified fuel.
The chev. cavalier and ford escort duel fuel vehicles of about 10 years ago had a cng capacity of about 5 gge.
Baytec is the only company doing epa/carb certified conversions today. Mostly trucks and certain large us brand cars, and VERY expensive.
I think mostly for government agencies. I know the Navy has a lot of CNG conversion trucks. Many of the buses & taxis in San Diego are CNG. I think the high cost is mainly the tank and the certification process. I do not think you can legally convert your own car to CNG without getting it certified.
I recently purchased a 1999 Honda GX with 35,000 miles. If parked overnight in a closed garage with windows closed, there is a slight gas aroma in the morning. Is this a problem? The San Francisco Honda dealer has techs trained in using a sniffer, but doesn't own one. Where can I get "sniffed" to find the leak, if I should even care. (I love the car, otherwise.)
if you gas up at a gas company facility you might see if they will do a quick check. In our area, socal, some of the techs have the sniffer. you might catch one on the street (alley in my area).
Thanks. My wife had, in fact, recently suggested something along the same lines. PG&E has a large CNG fleet, and when I called, a rep suggested that the on-site "trainer," whom I have to meet to get "trained" before being authorized to buy PG&E gas, may have the skills or references to help. (Most CNG vendors use on-site videos to do the training, but Trillium and PG&E require more expensive, personal contact.) I get to meet the PG&E trainer on July 12th.
You evidently responded to a thread about a slight CNG leak I had, and I received an e-mail notification. However, the post to which yuo replied (and, apparently, your reply) was removed by Edmunds due to inclusion of what they considered to be personal information by me and perhaps even you in your reply. (The first few words of your reply had the name of a person in them, along with the name of the Northern California CNG vendor/employer.) Can you re-reply, directly to me, please, at rhbohl@aol.com? (Hopefully, my including my own e-mail address does not present a problem for the Forum.)
I cannot find any info on free parking in Santa Monica. Do you have a link or an ordinance number? It is not listed on the California perks web site either, several other cities are listed but no SM.
I don't know the ordinance number or how I first found out about it, but I did call and the City of Santa Monica (I am a Santa Monica resident) did confirm it. In the 10 months that I have had the car I have gotten two parking tickets in Los Angeles and two in Santa Monica. I sent a letter and photo copy of the DMV stickers each time I was ticketed and I was sent a letter in each case waiving the fine.
No, not a policeman or city (sovietmonica) official.
Check out the below web site. It lists other cities that offer silver decal free parking. Expect tickets, as the meter people seem to be blind to decals. I even have a permanent sign on the dash covering the vin number that says: "cng natural gas vehicle please do not ticket".
Free Metered Parking - Santa Monica, CA 100% electric, 100% CNG or hybrid vehicles carrying the Clean Air Decal may park at any meter in the City of Santa ... www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/incentives/index.asp?blnBtnHit=true - 63k -
Hi! I am new to this forum and boy do I wish I would have looked here first. I searched for months for a green car, put all the money I had together, and bought a used 2001 Honda GX, got it checked out by a dealer, they cleared it, so I went for it -- and in the four weeks I have had it, it has needed a repair a week! It has sputtered, stalled, the oil pan and a gasket needed changing.. I have spent ALL the money I had on this -- and now the engine light is on and I can't afford another expensive repair. I saw the info on the recall for the earlier models, any info on the 2001 to the same effects?? I was so excited to get my dream car, and now to have all of this to pay for, too -- I am in Los Angeles, so any advice as to maintenance, where to go for repairs (Honda Cerritos and Honda Hollywood did two of mine), and what I really have to get done by a dealer versus not (there is a radiator leak,too, and I need a new radiator!) would be helpful. Thanks!
bought a used 2001 Honda GX, got it checked out by a dealer, they cleared it, so I went for it
Welcome to the forum,
First: I would like to say to anyone that is out there with the same idea as yours to own a "Green" car. Whether it is CNG, hybrid or diesel. Beware, these cars are specialized and require a specialized technician to work on them. That means big bucks for any repair. You are the victim of someone that had problems and passed them off on you. Second: I have to question the competency of the dealer you had check it out. Oil pan gaskets don't just start leaking so bad they have to be replaced. It had to have signs that it was starting to leak. Did you take it to the dealer that said it was in good condition when it sputtered? My advice get it running and trade it in on a car with some warranty left on it. If you cannot afford to put a CNG filling station in your garage, you cannot afford to own a CNG car. They are very expensive to maintain. The big advantage is filling at home and saving money on fuel. You have not even gotten to the expensive repairs concerning the CNG tank. Such as tank testing & certification, etc.
Yeah-- I went out this morning and it sputtered and would not start. The auto auction guy is buying it back from me at what I paid... so, in that respect I am lucky -- and I think calling him at 5:50 AM this morning on my way to work (now back on the bicycle) also helped.
An $800 loss on my part... but I have learned the hard way. I am going to sign up for Flexcar when this fiasco is over with. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last note -- it was fine when I test drove it... a small oil leak was reported in the dealer's report -- but said that it could wait to be fixed. This turned into a torrential storm of oil the day I drove it off the lot after getting another part fixed. Yes, again, live and learn. I wish this sort of information were up at consumerreports.com and Honda sites. Thank God I saw this this morning. All best to you who can afford them! Take care!
but I have learned the hard way. I am going to sign up for Flexcar when this fiasco is over with.
Are you sure you have learned? Why would you want a flex fuel vehicle? There is no E85 available in Los Angeles. Only one station on the whole west coast. The very best mileage you can expect out of a Flex fuel vehicle would be with a Chevy Monte Carlo. It gets 25 MPG combined on gasoline and 19 MPG combined on E85.
If emissions is your goal. Here is a list of PZEV vehicles. One should fit in your budget. The Ford Focus is probably the least expensive PZEV car on the market.
Good luck, and glad to hear they gave you your money back.
How many miles did it have? sounds like you may have had a bad head gasket or cracked head allowing pressure to the block and cooling system....Bad radiator along with pan gasket on a 2001 model is very rare with low miles...
I would have tried to work through the problems before giving it up so easily... A compression test would be the first thing on my to do list.... That would have told you a lot about the health of your car... It should have been the first thing on your dealers list as well... (you can't tune a engine with bad compression)It would be a big waist of time and money.... I guess people just don't work on there own cars anymore.....confuse:
Does anyone know if the rebate by the SCAQMD is an annual promotion? Will they be giving away more incentives at the beginning of next year? Good gosh, I can get a FREE toilet from the city of Anaheim, but lets put a quota on rebates for these ecological machines... too much
Comments
The service manual indicates to do the following for the tank inspection every 36 months. Check for.
1)abrasions
2)cuts
3)dents
4)expansion or transformation
5)heating
6)gap between the fuel tank and the fuel tank bands
7) fuel tank band spring length with no pressure inside tank
8) torque of the fuel tank frame bolts fuel tank band bolts and nuts
Nothing in the 2001-2005 supplement indicates that the tank needs to be removed for inspection. The labor for the above should be less than one hour labor.
I hope the body shops are following the instructions for welding on these cars.
Bud.
correction...in a prior post I said I own a 2006 and tested the 2007. I meant I own the 2005 and drove the 2006. I am looking to purchase the 2006 and sell mine to one of my employees who wants one. The 2006's are scarce and selling for over invoice at some dealers. When I purchased the 2005 they gave a good discount.
I believe that the AQMD has been assuring Fuelmaker that the rebate money "is in the mail" for quite some time now.
Do any PHILL owners have their rebate check?????
My frustration is with A.Q.M.D.
Everybody at FUELMAKER has always been wonderful to deal with.
P.S. we all kinda wondered how you liked the 2007 GX.
since they haven't started making them yet
I am in total agreement with you about Fuelmaker. We have two units at different locations and found the company easy to deal with. With regard to the rebates, I guess they are just stuck in the middle.
I guess in my mind I was driving a 2007 cause it is so much different than the 05. I suggested to the Honda reps that they should really have an upscale option like a better radio, leather, and sun roof. Just a thought.
I think the dealers are still offering the same deal.
I bought my 4 year old 2001 GX off e-bay and my PHILL I purchased directly from Fuelmaker. I paid for PHILL authorized installation too. I think that's why we get the rebate directly. AJ?
The Matrix(Corolla) uses a temporary spare so I would need to check if the toroidal tank would fit there.
The Dual Fuel ability is what is attractive. Being able to use gasoline when Natural Gas is not available is a strong selling point.
I am hoping that someone here knows of conversions for this vehicle. (or I can purchase a kit from Europe).
Thanks
The chev. cavalier and ford escort duel fuel vehicles of about 10 years ago had a cng capacity of about 5 gge.
Baytec is the only company doing epa/carb certified conversions today. Mostly trucks and certain large us brand cars, and VERY expensive.
I think mostly for government agencies. I know the Navy has a lot of CNG conversion trucks. Many of the buses & taxis in San Diego are CNG. I think the high cost is mainly the tank and the certification process. I do not think you can legally convert your own car to CNG without getting it certified.
good luck
Thanks.
My 2k rebate has just shown up on my wife's visa statement. Did yours arrive?
I cannot find any info on free parking in Santa Monica. Do you have a link or an ordinance number? It is not listed on the California perks web site either, several other cities are listed but no SM.
Regards,
PFM
I don't know the ordinance number or how I first found out about it, but I did call and the City of Santa Monica (I am a Santa Monica resident) did confirm it. In the 10 months that I have had the car I have gotten two parking tickets in Los Angeles and two in Santa Monica. I sent a letter and photo copy of the DMV stickers each time I was ticketed and I was sent a letter in each case waiving the fine.
Regards,
rst
My Phill gets installed tomorrow and I can't wait!
Steve AKA: alter eco
Thanks for the info not exactly what I wanted but as you are 2 for 2 in SM I will take that as a good sign.
You are not a police officer or city leader that they just take care of are you?
Thanks again,
PFM
No, not a policeman or city (sovietmonica) official.
Check out the below web site. It lists other cities that offer silver decal free parking. Expect tickets, as the meter people seem to be blind to decals. I even have a permanent sign on the dash covering the vin number that says: "cng natural gas vehicle please do not ticket".
Free Metered Parking - Santa Monica, CA 100% electric, 100% CNG or hybrid vehicles carrying the Clean Air Decal may park at any meter in the City of Santa ...
www.driveclean.ca.gov/en/gv/incentives/index.asp?blnBtnHit=true - 63k -
Regards,
rst
Thanks the link was great and there were more links right under that one with contact info too.
Cool I will be in sovietmonica next week.
PFM
Welcome to the forum,
First: I would like to say to anyone that is out there with the same idea as yours to own a "Green" car. Whether it is CNG, hybrid or diesel. Beware, these cars are specialized and require a specialized technician to work on them. That means big bucks for any repair. You are the victim of someone that had problems and passed them off on you.
Second:
I have to question the competency of the dealer you had check it out. Oil pan gaskets don't just start leaking so bad they have to be replaced. It had to have signs that it was starting to leak. Did you take it to the dealer that said it was in good condition when it sputtered? My advice get it running and trade it in on a car with some warranty left on it. If you cannot afford to put a CNG filling station in your garage, you cannot afford to own a CNG car. They are very expensive to maintain. The big advantage is filling at home and saving money on fuel. You have not even gotten to the expensive repairs concerning the CNG tank. Such as tank testing & certification, etc.
An $800 loss on my part... but I have learned the hard way. I am going to sign up for Flexcar when this fiasco is over with. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes, again, live and learn. I wish this sort of information were up at consumerreports.com and Honda sites. Thank God I saw this this morning.
All best to you who can afford them!
Take care!
Are you sure you have learned? Why would you want a flex fuel vehicle? There is no E85 available in Los Angeles. Only one station on the whole west coast. The very best mileage you can expect out of a Flex fuel vehicle would be with a Chevy Monte Carlo. It gets 25 MPG combined on gasoline and 19 MPG combined on E85.
If emissions is your goal. Here is a list of PZEV vehicles. One should fit in your budget. The Ford Focus is probably the least expensive PZEV car on the market.
Good luck, and glad to hear they gave you your money back.
PZEV Cars
I would have tried to work through the problems before giving it up so easily... A compression test would be the first thing on my to do list.... That would have told you a lot about the health of your car...
It should have been the first thing on your dealers list as well... (you can't tune a engine with bad compression)It would be a big waist of time and money....
I guess people just don't work on there own cars anymore.....confuse:
Steve, AKA: AlTER : ECO
And, I have had four repairs done in 4 weeks and it needs two more significant ones already. I can't afford it -- already down --
So, thanks --
I guess that makes me the clueless one... I remember someone posting about that flexcar service...Good luck with your shopping...
Of course, it's also an opportunity for some to expand into or start up new businesses!
All the things Clean Energy is famous for.